Fixing to a metal post

[John Rumm]

I will need to fix a new wooden gate post (4x2") to the front of an
existing metal post. The metal post looks like its (rusty) mild steel,
square hollow section about 3" square, with a wall thickness of 3 or 4mm.

Any good suggestions for a suitable fixing system?

(the post is concreted into the ground at a friends place, so poking it
under the pillar drill in the workshop will not be an option!)





--
Cheers,

John.

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[Jane Browne]

John Rumm wrote:
> I will need to fix a new wooden gate post (4x2") to the front of an
> existing metal post. The metal post looks like its (rusty) mild steel,
> square hollow section about 3" square, with a wall thickness of 3 or
> 4mm.
> Any good suggestions for a suitable fixing system?

I'd personally move the hinges from the wooden gate post to the steel post
if the gate would still work properly when that is done and use very large
steel pop rivets or the large self drilling self tappers we call tek screws.

If you want to keep the wooden gate post, use large bolts with a
decent washer under the heads to bolt the wood to the steel post
with the bolt going right through the steel post.

I normally weld up the gate out of square hollow tube, and just
weld on a hinge onto the metal post, just a vertical pin that goes
into a flat plate that is welded onto the bottom rail of the gate,
but you obviously need a welder and know how to use it etc.

> (the post is concreted into the ground at a friends place, so poking
> it under the pillar drill in the workshop will not be an option!)
>
>
>
>
>
>

[harry]

On Apr 5, 4:32 am, John Rumm <see.my.signat...@nowhere.null> wrote:
> I will need to fix a new wooden gate post (4x2") to the front of an
> existing metal post. The metal post looks like its (rusty) mild steel,
> square hollow section about 3" square, with a wall thickness of 3 or 4mm.
>
> Any good suggestions for a suitable fixing system?
>
> (the post is concreted into the ground at a friends place, so poking it
> under the pillar drill in the workshop will not be an option!)
>

Bracket/screwed rod & nuts
Electric welder.

[Nightjar]

On 05/04/2012 04:32, John Rumm wrote:
> I will need to fix a new wooden gate post (4x2") to the front of an
> existing metal post. The metal post looks like its (rusty) mild steel,
> square hollow section about 3" square, with a wall thickness of 3 or 4mm.
>
> Any good suggestions for a suitable fixing system?
>
> (the post is concreted into the ground at a friends place, so poking it
> under the pillar drill in the workshop will not be an option!)

I have successfully drilled and tapped M8 into a very similar post to
take light fittings in my garden. It just took patience, a very large
hand tapping wrench and lots of tapping lubricant.

Colin Bignell

[Scott M]

Nightjar wrote:
> On 05/04/2012 04:32, John Rumm wrote:

>> Any good suggestions for a suitable fixing system?

> I have successfully drilled and tapped M8 into a very similar post to
> take light fittings in my garden. It just took patience, a very large
> hand tapping wrench and lots of tapping lubricant.

Coach bolt all the way through? (With optional recess bored into the
wooden post to accomodate a nut to prevent over-tightening.)

They do make fixings for creating blind threaded holes in box section.
They're related to clinch nuts but go in from the outside. Look a bit
like drop in anchors. Think of a tubular section with a small flangs,
part threaded at the bottom with a weakened section that balloons out
when tightened.

Failing all that, I've had success using the metal umbrella style
expanding plasterboard fixings in metal.

Scott

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <xpednWEPpv_fj-DS...@brightview.co.uk>,

John Rumm <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
> I will need to fix a new wooden gate post (4x2") to the front of an
> existing metal post. The metal post looks like its (rusty) mild steel,
> square hollow section about 3" square, with a wall thickness of 3 or 4mm.

> Any good suggestions for a suitable fixing system?

> (the post is concreted into the ground at a friends place, so poking it
> under the pillar drill in the workshop will not be an option!)

I have a rivet nut tool. Came from Ebay at a reasonable cost and takes up
to 8mm bolts, according to the 'rivet' you use. It's a bit like a pop
rivet in how it works. You just drill the appropriate sized hole and rivet
the nut in place. Very handy device. The nut obviously stands slightly
proud of the face - rather like a pop rivet does. If the material is thick
enough you can countersink (or whatever) the hole to get a flush fit, if
that is needed.

There is no break off part as a pop rivet - the tool screws into the
thread and pulls that back to crimp on the reverse of the work.

--
*When the chips are down, the buffalo is empty*

Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[John Rumm]

On 05/04/2012 10:32, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article<xpednWEPpv_fj-DS...@brightview.co.uk>,
> John Rumm<see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
>> I will need to fix a new wooden gate post (4x2") to the front of an
>> existing metal post. The metal post looks like its (rusty) mild steel,
>> square hollow section about 3" square, with a wall thickness of 3 or 4mm.
>
>> Any good suggestions for a suitable fixing system?
>
>> (the post is concreted into the ground at a friends place, so poking it
>> under the pillar drill in the workshop will not be an option!)
>
> I have a rivet nut tool. Came from Ebay at a reasonable cost and takes up
> to 8mm bolts, according to the 'rivet' you use. It's a bit like a pop
> rivet in how it works. You just drill the appropriate sized hole and rivet
> the nut in place. Very handy device. The nut obviously stands slightly
> proud of the face - rather like a pop rivet does. If the material is thick
> enough you can countersink (or whatever) the hole to get a flush fit, if
> that is needed.
>
> There is no break off part as a pop rivet - the tool screws into the
> thread and pulls that back to crimp on the reverse of the work.

ah, handy had not seen them before. I take it you mean something like:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4mm-8mm-THREADED-RIVET-NUT-RIVNUT-INSERT-SETTING-TOOL-/310368871914?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item48436d25ea

[John Rumm]

On 05/04/2012 09:48, Scott M wrote:
> Nightjar wrote:
>> On 05/04/2012 04:32, John Rumm wrote:
>
>>> Any good suggestions for a suitable fixing system?
>
>> I have successfully drilled and tapped M8 into a very similar post to
>> take light fittings in my garden. It just took patience, a very large
>> hand tapping wrench and lots of tapping lubricant.
>
> Coach bolt all the way through? (With optional recess bored into the
> wooden post to accomodate a nut to prevent over-tightening.)

I had thought of a bit of m8 studding all the way through the lot, then
nuts & washers on each end. 4 holes of that size ought to be doable,
although not particularly quick...

> They do make fixings for creating blind threaded holes in box section.
> They're related to clinch nuts but go in from the outside. Look a bit
> like drop in anchors. Think of a tubular section with a small flangs,
> part threaded at the bottom with a weakened section that balloons out
> when tightened.

Yup, seen those now - look possible.

> Failing all that, I've had success using the metal umbrella style
> expanding plasterboard fixings in metal.

Would need a fair size of clearance hole though...


I also contemplated getting a couple of conventional steel hex headed
bolts, and welding their heads onto the face of the metal post, then
drilling the timber to match the position of them and putting it over
the protruding bolts. Nut and washer in a slight rebate on the front,
and then a touch of weld to prevent the nuts being removed.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <77udnc_pB4OFN-DS...@brightview.co.uk>,

John Rumm <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
> ah, handy had not seen them before. I take it you mean something like:

> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4mm-8mm-THREADED-RIVET-NUT-RIVNUT-INSERT-SETTING-TOOL-/310368871914?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item48436d25ea

Yup - that's the sort of thing. I payed about twice that for mine. It
still needs a deal of force to use in the larger sizes, so IMHO best has
strongly made tool. But is very very useful.

--
*Too many clicks spoil the browse *

[Scott M]

John Rumm wrote:

>> There is no break off part as a pop rivet - the tool screws into the
>> thread and pulls that back to crimp on the reverse of the work.
>
> ah, handy had not seen them before. I take it you mean something like:
>
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4mm-8mm-THREADED-RIVET-NUT-RIVNUT-INSERT-SETTING-TOOL-/310368871914?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item48436d25ea

That'll be the tool for what I described then! I did mine by tightening
then up with a bolt and washer (to stop the fitting spinning.) Might be
tempted to buy the tool to go with the remainder of the handfull I bought.

Scott

[Scott M]

John Rumm wrote:

> I had thought of a bit of m8 studding all the way through the lot, then
> nuts & washers on each end. 4 holes of that size ought to be doable,
> although not particularly quick...

As long as it's plain steel then it shouldn't be too hard going to knock
a few holes in it. The key with steel is to keep up the axial force - ie
lean hard on the drill so it cuts a chip and doesn't just skid on the
surface. And working up the drill bit sizes helps. I use my cheapy 12v
Makita and M8 is about its limit but a decent mains one (if you can get
leccy out there) like my Bosch Green hammer wouldn't struggle.

Scott

[John Rumm]

Yup lekky is easy there, although I expect I will use my 18V combi - its
got much the same power as my mains drill, but much better speed control.

[John Rumm]

Just trying to work out if its worth buying a new toy to save drilling
two extra holes ;-)

What other situations have these fixings proved useful?

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <XLGdnUaBUZy3fuDS...@brightview.co.uk>,

John Rumm <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
> Just trying to work out if its worth buying a new toy to save drilling
> two extra holes ;-)

> What other situations have these fixings proved useful?

I suppose it depends on your hobbies. Very useful for electronic stuff
cases and chassis - no need for three hands with fixing nuts and bolts.
And for adding things to older cars. Much more sanitary than self tappers.
Basically like all such things you'll soon invent a use for it. ;-)

--
*Caution: I drive like you do.

[Scott M]

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> John Rumm <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:

>> Just trying to work out if its worth buying a new toy to
>> save drilling two extra holes ;-)

I dunno about you but I've bought several tools over the years for some
time/effort saving that have then sat around for years afterwards. Seems
a bit daft but I quite relish the feeling of "Ah, I've got one of
those!" when it's eventually needed again.

>> What other situations have these fixings proved useful?
>

> And for adding things to older cars. Much more sanitary than self tappers.

'54 plate isn't older! ;-)

There's a weak point on mine where an exhaust hanger is welded to the
diff carrier. I could buy the repair plate for £50 from BMW or make my
own out of the scrap bin (guess which). Either way it had to be fixed to
a box section and these little things were what BMW used and were
actually available from the local nut & bolt place.

Never seen them before so bought a few spare. Not come up with another
use for them yet but am still tempted by the tool!!!

Scott

[John Rumm]

On 05/04/2012 04:32, John Rumm wrote:

> I will need to fix a new wooden gate post (4x2") to the front of an
> existing metal post. The metal post looks like its (rusty) mild steel,
> square hollow section about 3" square, with a wall thickness of 3 or 4mm.
>
> Any good suggestions for a suitable fixing system?
>
> (the post is concreted into the ground at a friends place, so poking it
> under the pillar drill in the workshop will not be an option!)

Update for those that are interested....

Fitted them the other day. In the end went with the drill through the
post, and bolt onto the face using M6 stainless studding with nuts and
washers either end. Drilling was not too difficult, couple of minutes
per pair of holes with a Bosch multimaterial bit. Did three sets of
fixings in the end since I was using the slightly skinnier M6 rod, and
the gates were fairly solid. Using the face of the post also allowed the
wooden post to be trimmed in width to get the best fit for the gates,
and a slight squint to be cut on the far side of it to allow more
opening angle for the neighbours gates.

Ended up looking like:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=File:FLBDoorExampleOutside.jpg

The fixings were counter drilled on the outside and then hidden under
wood plugs, so once we slopped some Sadolin over the post you could not
see them.