Wet brickwork below dormer window
Jon
We've got a room over the garage which has a dormer window jutting out the
roof space. I noticed a few weeks back when we last had proper rain the
brickwork over the garage was wet in two places, the water was running from
the back of the soffits where it meets the brickwork. Sorted a little
guttering joint issue out and thought I'd fixed the problem. Came home from
work today after rain and I can see the brickwork is (slightly) wet.
In the photos below, you can see the pale brick has become darker from water
above the garage door except in the middle, and also the leading all around
the dormer and where the water is coming from. It has dried out a lot with
all this warm weather, but I am concerned and want to fix it myself or get
it fixed as I'm not great with heights.
http://i27.tinypic.com/2vc97pi.jpg
http://i26.tinypic.com/33ogydy.jpg
http://i25.tinypic.com/2jg046r.jpg
Not sure really where to start with investigating this. Anyone?
Cheers,
Jon
The Natural Philosopher
But it probably is just splashing from an overloaded gutter.
wont do much harm really.
Oh..from the BACK of the soffits. Mmm. I have a horrible feeling I know
exactly what is happening here.
You are not going to like this.
If you get a stream of water running down the dormer sides where they
meet the roof, and you obviously do, cos its wet there, then that stream
will run under the flashing and drip down onto the felting. Then run
down that and drip into the soffit space. That felting SHOULD overhang
the guttering, and probably does..soi my guess is that its actually
getting past the edge of the dfelting and running down inside the roof.
One quick thing to do is to piyut a downpipe off te dormer guttering,
that diverts that flow into teh main guttering dircet.
BUT I suspect that whoever bodged that dormer in, needs his wrists
slapping.
You need a good roof man up there to lift all the flashing, strip back
the slates around the edge and put in lead soakars underneath the tiles.
I had a similar leak in a similar place here. Those soakers are
overlapping L shaped channels that run UNDER the slates and INSIDE the
main flashing and form a better seal between the dormer edge and teh slates.
The idea is that any water that runs down there will not get past the
soakers, and as they overlap the slates, they will channel it back out
to on top of the slate below.
Oh sod it..a picture..is worth etc.
http://www.diyflatroofing.co.uk/leadpitchflash.htm
See how it SHOULD be done, and then see if it HAS been done like that.
And arrange a downpipe to throw water from the dormer guttering clear of
the vulnerable dormer edge.
Kipper at sea
wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
There are three possible reasons why there is a leak. #1 at the top of
the valley section under the ridge and tiles there should be a piece
of lead called a saddle. This stops any water entering the joint where
the ridge meets the valley. If one as not has been fitted when the
mortar cracks water will get in and run inside. # 2 Check to see if
there is a crack in the lead lining in the valley lead and if there is
any loose bedding mortar under the tiles, this can cause suction.
#3 the amount of water leaving the guttering and running down the side
of the dormer cover flashing is getting under the lead. To correct
this you will have to get some code 4 sheet lead at least 15" or 375mm
wide bend at 90degs with an up stand of 3" or 75mm cut into lengths to
the size of your tiles plus 22" or 50mm. left the present cover
flashing and push up the tile that covers the bottom tile, put one of
the pieces of lead ON TOP of the tile with the 3" up stand against the
side of the dormer. Bend the top of the piece of lead 1" 25mm over the
top of the tile; this will stop the piece of lead from slipping down.
Bend the bottom 1" 25mm over the bottom of the tile. Pull down the
tile you pushed up and repeat to the next tile above. The tiles should
be tight against the dormer side with a minimum of 6" 100mm side cover
lap. If there is a gap between the tiles and the dormer don’t worry,
make sure there is a minimum 6" 150mm lead covering the tiles NOT
JUST 6" 150mm from the dormer side, Also check that the underlay felt
as not rotted do to the water increase.
On single lap tiles soaker are NOT PUT UNDER THE TILES but on top. As
there is nothing to support them..
Spamlet
"Jon" <m...@home.com> wrote in message
news:F92Zn.437691$517.1...@unlimited.newshosting.com...
What TNP said and:
It is difficult to see from your pics, but there may be a sag in the
guttering there, making it the point of overflow in heavy rain. Check the
slope by pouring some water out of the dormer window, and check that the
downpipe is not blocked at the top - ours have mesh over but this traps
leaves and moss.
Secondly, if the dormer was fitted as an addition after the main house, you
may find - as we did where a chimney had been removed and tiled over - that
the tiling then does not quite reach the gutter and some water curls back
and down the inside of the soffit. We had this both on the covered chimney
and on an extension that had been widened twice without redoing the tiles
properly each time.
In the latter case (discovered with this winter's snow) at one point the
felt had been added at the bottom in a narrow strip which sagged between the
rafters and channelled water from the soffit back into the room below -
still haven't got round to fixing the plaster!
I was able to cure the wet chimney, by cutting out spare lead flashing from
the earlier extension roof lines, and pushing it under the tiles with the
other edge in the gutter. We are saving for a complete retile but on a
complex century old building this is going to be pricey.
S
The Natural Philosopher
>
> On single lap tiles soaker are NOT PUT UNDER THE TILES but on top. As
> there is nothing to support them..
I THOUGHT they laid over the tile below and under the tile above, in all
cases..
Could you amplify, ..if there is nothing under the tiles, they will fall
down!
The Natural Philosopher
Always a good plan.
I always check my guttering/downpipes in heavy rain - most of it being
below the fully dormered upper storey - to see what is going on.
Any spills are investigated and gutters cleared. I've got deep valleys
under trees: these wash a shitload of..shit .. into the guttering and
hoppers.
I find it easier NOT to mesh anything. Most of the crap then washes down
to the soakaway grilles where at least its easy to remove.
Guttering can be pressure washed, with care, too.
> Secondly, if the dormer was fitted as an addition after the main house, you
> may find - as we did where a chimney had been removed and tiled over - that
> the tiling then does not quite reach the gutter and some water curls back
> and down the inside of the soffit. We had this both on the covered chimney
> and on an extension that had been widened twice without redoing the tiles
> properly each time.
>
> In the latter case (discovered with this winter's snow) at one point the
> felt had been added at the bottom in a narrow strip which sagged between the
> rafters and channelled water from the soffit back into the room below -
> still haven't got round to fixing the plaster!
>
That is the problem with general builders who are not experienced roofers.
Oddly only my CARPENTERS understood how to do a roof properly. The rest
did not.
> I was able to cure the wet chimney, by cutting out spare lead flashing from
> the earlier extension roof lines, and pushing it under the tiles with the
> other edge in the gutter. We are saving for a complete retile but on a
> complex century old building this is going to be pricey.
>
yes..and needs a competent crew.
However I see nothing in the OPS case that a few hundred thrown at a
competent roofing firm couldn't totally fix in a couple of days.
I would get scaffold up there, strip back as far as need be and do a
proper job on it.
Probably only a day or two.
For a couple of blokes.
Its low enough for a scaffold tower, too. Very DIY able if you know
exactly what to do, which I am not 100% sure I do, but there are sites
to explain.
> S
>
>
Jim K
how long you lived there? did you do/pay for dormer in your ownership?
or pre-existing?
if you lived there a while and this damp is *new* then suspect
"ponding" on roofing felt, leading to it rotting and leaks through
felt into top wall and down.
SOURCE of leaks is what you need to sort (unless selling soon;>)) AND
at least inspect/redo redo felt at eaves.....
from pics seems damp on wall is directly under eaves of dormer? both
sides?
PS careful with the lead experts ;>)
Cheers
Jim K
Kipper at sea
wrote:
There are two types of roof tile, single lap and double lap. Right the
tile lath are on, pick up the first single lap tile lay it on the
right hand side starting point ok. Now look underneath the tile, and
all you will see is a gap from fascia to the first lath. No support
for a soaker. Right, double lap tiles, pick up the eaves tile and lay
on the roof then put soaker on top of eave tile, place first full tile
on top of eave tile, place second soaker on top of tile then lay
tile&half on top of first full tile then lay soaker on top, carry on
till abutment is complete.
There are three plain tile sizes Eaves & Tops, Tiles and Tile& half.
Spamlet
"The Natural Philosopher" <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:i12lsv$fln$1...@news.albasani.net...
I have been known to extend the power shower out of the window...
Sadly our downpipes go straight underground in most places, though I have
chopped into one for the water butt. Still included a strainer in the
hopper though, and it fills up pretty quick.
S
Jon
"Jim K" <jk98...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:3953c9e8-4782-4327...@5g2000yqz.googlegroups.com...
Guys, thanks loads for your helpful replies.
We've lived in this ten year old house for four years nearly, the dormer
window was built as part of the original house design.
I thought the problem was originally due to a loose bracket screw in the
guttering, causing the gutter to drop slightly at a joint. Unfortunately,
correcting this didn't fix it. Looking up close at the brick where it gets
wet, there is a slight lime scale buildup which would suggest it's been
getting wet for some time on and off, but I hadn't really noticed it until
recently.
There isn't any felting overlapping the guttering. There is none there for
me to correct myself, so they must've cut it short originally.
What I do know is that last year, we claimed on the NHBC and had builders
come around and remove all the ridge tiling from the main hipped roof part
of our house and replace the mortar as it was literally turning to dust. So
the gang that were doing the roofing during the build were a right sort. I
also know that before we bought the house, a previous owner had all the
fascias and soffits replaced with uPVC, so who knows what they did as part
of that job.
I fix most stuff myself, but roofing is something I will have to get a pro
in for. The only trouble is finding a reputable tradesman is difficult at
best.
Cheers,
Jon
Jon
"Jon" <m...@home.com> wrote in message
news:2tf_n.125728$VX5....@unlimited.newshosting.com...
>
> Guys, thanks loads for your helpful replies.
>
> We've lived in this ten year old house for four years nearly, the dormer
> window was built as part of the original house design.
>
> I thought the problem was originally due to a loose bracket screw in the
> guttering, causing the gutter to drop slightly at a joint. Unfortunately,
> correcting this didn't fix it. Looking up close at the brick where it gets
> wet, there is a slight lime scale buildup which would suggest it's been
> getting wet for some time on and off, but I hadn't really noticed it until
> recently.
>
> There isn't any felting overlapping the guttering. There is none there for
> me to correct myself, so they must've cut it short originally.
>
> What I do know is that last year, we claimed on the NHBC and had builders
> come around and remove all the ridge tiling from the main hipped roof part
> of our house and replace the mortar as it was literally turning to dust.
> So the gang that were doing the roofing during the build were a right
> sort. I also know that before we bought the house, a previous owner had
> all the fascias and soffits replaced with uPVC, so who knows what they did
> as part of that job.
Here's some more pics I took this morning.
http://i26.tinypic.com/ev0roh.jpg
http://i32.tinypic.com/30w9opz.jpg
http://i31.tinypic.com/34eaxiu.jpg
http://i32.tinypic.com/rw8k5w.jpg
http://i31.tinypic.com/dxo10k.jpg
http://i29.tinypic.com/2ed31p5.jpg
Cheers,
Jon
Chris J Dixon
>There isn't any felting overlapping the guttering. There is none there for
>me to correct myself, so they must've cut it short originally.
>
>I also know that before we bought the house, a previous owner had all the
>fascias and soffits replaced with uPVC, so who knows what they did as part
>of that job.
>
Sounds like they might have cut corners - AIUI, it is usual that
replacing the bottom section of the felt, if it is short or
damaged, is a integral part of replacing the fascias.
Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
ch...@cdixon.me.uk
Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.