RSJ supports

[jimmyjim]

I want to remove the wall between my kitchen and dinning room. I had a
structural engineer around today and he said it all seems very simple.
It will need an rsj put in (which i was expecting). The only problem I
have now thought of is the supports for the rsj. One side will be
supported by the remains of the existing wall which is fine. However
the other side the support needs to go into what is now a doorway with
wooden floors. What will I need to do to fit this support correctly.
Really should of asked the structural engineer but only just thought
of it.

Any help much appreciated.

James

[Weatherlawyer]

I don't understand the situation.

[Tim Watts]

Is what Jimmy is saying is:

At one end I have as much (or as little) of the wall after I knock the
rest down, to seat the RSJ on.

But at the other end, I only have

a) the end of a perpendicular wall as the end of the RSJ is over an old
doorway which was tight into the corner;

or (worse)

b) There were 2 doorways at 90 degrees, so there is in fact no wall at
all to rest the RSJ on?

a) Don't know what the required supporting length of a wall for an RSJ is...

b) Column? Steel or suitable dimensions in brick? Either will need
foundations below the floor as (presumably) there aren't any now.

Over to you Jimmy...

--
Tim Watts

Hung parliament? Rather have a hanged parliament.

[The Natural Philosopher]

brick will take the compressive forces in a column against some wall to
prevent buckling: The greater problem seems to be eh wood floor which it
cant be built upon..remove floor and dig down until something solid
appears? or build a nice concrete foundation under..?.

Or RSJ under the floor resting on..what?

[Tony Bryer]

On Wed, 9 Jun 2010 15:23:24 -0700 (PDT) Jimmyjim wrote :
> However
> the other side the support needs to go into what is now a doorway with
> wooden floors. What will I need to do to fit this support correctly.
> Really should of asked the structural engineer but only just thought
> of it.

Possibly a 70x70 or 80x80 square steel hollow section, at the bottom
with a steel baseplate on a concrete base - your engineer would need to
determine the required size. Wrap with expanded metal and plaster to
give the required fire resistance. Alternatively, if the load is not too
great a 100x100 timber post might be suitable.

--
Tony Bryer, Greentram: 'Software to build on' Melbourne, Australia
www.superbeam.co.uk www.eurobeam.co.uk www.greentram.com

[jimmyjim]

Thanks for the replies. So I think i have to take up the floorboards
and check if there is anything below them that will support either a
brick or steel support pillar. If there isn't I will ask a builder for
advice but will it create a lot of work as money is an issue

[tony sayer]

In article <d9ca61eb-4a7d-43c2...@z10g2000yqb.googlegroup
s.com>, jimmyjim <jmdav...@googlemail.com> scribeth thus

Yes surprised he didn't mention it!. Prolly a brick pier topped by a
course of engineering bricks and acrow props while you put the joist in
place but it needs fire proofing etc. Better ask him to design it for
you...

>
>Any help much appreciated.
>
>James

--
Tony Sayer

[Tim Watts]

On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 01:00:16 -0700, jimmyjim <jmdav...@googlemail.com>
wibbled:

>
> Thanks for the replies. So I think i have to take up the floorboards and
> check if there is anything below them that will support either a brick
> or steel support pillar. If there isn't I will ask a builder for advice
> but will it create a lot of work as money is an issue

If you are really lucky, there may be a foundation for a wall there (if
the original builders ran foundation strips all the way around all the
main walls without regard for doorways.

Otherwise it's probably a concrete block in the ground and build off
that. Think 1m2 access through the floor plus/minus...

I would take the boards up in the immediate area where the column would
need to go, clean it out, invite the engineer back (if you need an
engineer for the RSJ, you need him for the support).

If there were a foundation strip there, the question is: "Is it strong
enough to take this load?". Otherwise have him specify in writing what is
required (depth and breadth of concrete, type of concrete - eg C20,C24 etc
- never leave it to the builders...).

In either case, you can then ask him what the options for columns are
then get him to write the specification for that.

Another approach is ask him if there are any alternatives, eg a
perpendicular RSJ supported by other walls with the original RSJ fixed to
it. Might be cheaper *if* it is practical, although it might need the RSJ
made up specially with bolting plates welded on in the right places.

Anyway, that's how I'd go about it.

--
Tim Watts

Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer.

[Phil L]

Remove the lintel over the door and replace with a suitable steel lintel,
place your new rsj on top of this, this is assuming the doorway is staying
in? - if it isn't, you'll have to brick it up, in which case, rest your rsj
on this.

Straightforward really.

--
Phil L
RSRL Tipster Of The Year 2008

[jamesh...@hotmail.com]

Hi,

I was just reading your post from 2010 about supporting one of the ends of the RSJ you were planning to install. You mentioned that at one end of the wall being removed was a doorway which left nothing for the steel to sit on. I have exactly the same problem and was wondering what your solution was?

Hope you can help.

Thanks

James

[Tricky Dicky]

A friend of mine had similar situation and the solution was to place a RSJ across the door opening and the unsupported end of the other RSJ at right angle was simply bolted to it with angle iron sections.

Richard

[Dennis@home]

You put a steel across the doorway.

[jamesh...@hotmail.com]

If I run the steel from the external wall to where the door finishes, the steel will be sitting on a single column of bricks which separate the doors to the living room and dining room. I'm not sure that the single column of brick is up to the task of picking up the steel plus the load put on top of that. Is there a way of posting photos on here? It would be easier to show you with a photo. Picture 2 doors side by side, one to the lounge and one to the dining room. The doors are separated by the length of one whole brick. I want to remove the dining room door way, and the wall running between the kitchen and dining room. The wall picks up the floor to the bathroom, and the upstairs landing. I'm pretty sure I either need to build a pier and tie it into the single column of brick or install a steel column to pick up the end of the steel. I was just wondering how the original poster got around it.

[Rod Speed]

<jamesh...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:35f6ba79-fb77-4aab...@googlegroups.com...

> If I run the steel from the external wall to where the door finishes,
> the steel will be sitting on a single column of bricks which separate
> the doors to the living room and dining room. I'm not sure that the
> single column of brick is up to the task of picking up the steel plus
> the load put on top of that. Is there a way of posting photos on here?
> It would be easier to show you with a photo.

Put them on dropbox or whatever and include a link in your post.

[Cash]

Try www.tinypic.com for the 'photos - and if the pier is more than around 9"
in width, of sound construction and properly tied in, then you *should* be
ok - even better if it could be of two bricks thick (9").

Cash

[Andrew Gabriel]

In article <ciqnu9...@mid.individual.net>,

Seen this done in a friends house.
It required a steel down the pier, going into underpinning to take the
extra weight at that point on the foundations. In another case, it
didn't need the underpinning because the wall continued another 3 feet
below the floor before reaching the foundations, which was enough to
spread the load and not exceed the capability of the foundations, but
still needed the vertical steel (or he could have opted to keep more
of the original wall, which he didn't want to do).

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

[David]

Ummm...have you considered consulting a structural engineer?
This is the kind of question that they specialise in.
Usually well worth the money.

How have you calculated the size of the RSJ you are planning to install?

Cheers

Dave R

--
Windows 8.1 on PCSpecialist box

[jamesh...@hotmail.com]

Contacting a Structural engineer is my next port of call. Just wanted to know what solution the original poster went with. I can see the SE asking for new footings and a new pier tied into the existing wall.

As for my steel size. I contacted a SE with room, sizes, room uses, joist directions, roof support locations and with what I was planning to do. He calculated the steel based on the info I gave him but he was unaware of the problem I've since encountered re the pier.

Thanks for all of your suggestions.

[BobH]

On 27/01/2015 19:31, jamesh...@hotmail.com wrote:

There are various ways of supporting a steel beam: Cleats, a smaller
beam bolted to the wall under the one which need support, hangers, and
possibly a few others which don't come to mind just now.

[sunray]

Just checking I understand this.
You have a long supporting wall with 2 doors in it, between the 2 doors is another wall at a right angle (the 2 walls form a T shape). You want to remove everything to one side of the central wall.
If I have correctly understood that, how about running your new steel right over the remaining door so it is resting on the dividing wall and the wall the other side of the door.