Re: D-I-Y Electric shower death

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raden

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Jul 13, 2005, 1:57:25 PM7/13/05
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In message <42d52c84$0$2900$ed2e...@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net>, Peter
Crosland <g6...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/4679129.stm
>
Well, as an installer of machines, he should have had more of a clue

No earthing in the house? a bodger

he should have come to uk.d-i-y

--
geoff

Andrew Gabriel

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Jul 13, 2005, 12:21:43 PM7/13/05
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> The coroner said: "It is clear that this has arisen from faulty
> electrical installation.
>
> "It is essential that electrical installations are professionally
> fitted so these incidents can be avoided."

Well, there was one last year from a professionally fitted shower.
We will never know how it came to electrocute someone, as the firm
who fitted it were called in to investigate the incident.

--
Andrew Gabriel

Peter Crosland

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Jul 13, 2005, 11:00:19 AM7/13/05
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Christian McArdle

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Jul 13, 2005, 11:43:48 AM7/13/05
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> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/4679129.stm

Have your read the report?

He apparently ran the shower without attaching it to the wall through a
extension lead from the next door house over the garden fence.

That isn't an accident it is suicide, or at the least worthy of a Darwin
award.

Christian.

Mark A

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Jul 13, 2005, 11:41:21 AM7/13/05
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Dark Angel wrote:
>
> Do you think this is why the government brought in those new laws on
> Electrical Installation last year?

I was told it was because a politician's daughter was electrocuted when
she went to remove a pot from a metal rack her husband had put up, and
her knee was touching a stainless steel dishwasher. The problem came
about because the previous house owners had added some extra sockets in
the kitchen but had used a diagonal chase. The husband's screws had
penetrated the live conductor but it was never earthed till she touched
the dishwasher with her knee. The politician, by the way, was Jenny
Tonge of Richmond, Surrey (since retired).

Regards

Mark

BigWallop

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Jul 13, 2005, 6:05:57 PM7/13/05
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"David Lang" <davi...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:sOfBe.134194$Vo6....@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk...

> >> "It is essential that electrical installations are professionally
fitted
> >> so these incidents can be avoided."
>
> Fitted a ceiling fan in my MIL's two year old, professionally built granny
> flat last week. Took down the ceiling rose to find two neutrals poked
into
> terminals and the screws not done up. So much for professionals.
>
> Dave
>
You might find they were done up tight when first installed, but have since
come loose by heating and expanding and cooling and shrinking. That's why
screw terminals aren't that good in places where they a difficult to
maintain, because they can cause breaks in the circuits when they loosen off
and drop the wiring.


Dave Plowman (News)

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Jul 13, 2005, 12:35:37 PM7/13/05
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In article <42d536b4$0$13699$ed9e...@reading.news.pipex.net>,

Christian McArdle <cmcar...@nospam.yahooxxxx.co.uk> wrote:
> He apparently ran the shower without attaching it to the wall through a
> extension lead from the next door house over the garden fence.

> That isn't an accident it is suicide, or at the least worthy of a Darwin
> award.

Are there any electric showers that will work off a 13 amp extension lead
without blowing the fuse?

--
*You sound reasonable......time to up my medication

Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Sam Nelson

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Jul 13, 2005, 11:18:25 AM7/13/05
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In article <MPG.1d3f3fb81...@news.individual.net>,
Rob Morley <nos...@ntlworld.com> writes:
> In article <42d52c84$0$2900$ed2e...@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net>,
> "Peter Crosland" g6...@yahoo.co.uk says...
> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/4679129.stm
> >
> ===============

> The coroner said: "It is clear that this has arisen from faulty
> electrical installation.
>
> "It is essential that electrical installations are professionally
> fitted so these incidents can be avoided."
>
> ===============
>
> I think he meant to say
> "It is essential that electrical installations are PROPERLY fitted so
> these incidents can be avoided."

To be fair, it's just possible that the coroner has been misquoted. In
a book of Jeremy Clarkson's I read while on holiday recently, he mentions
having misquoted `could' for `should' in a court report early in his career,
with pretty drastic results. The above might just be a shorthand
transcription error or something similar. The coroner ought to be aware
that professionals can also make mistakes.
--
SAm.

Dark Angel

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Jul 13, 2005, 11:08:36 AM7/13/05
to

"Peter Crosland" <g6...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message...
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/4679129.stm

Rob Morley

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Jul 13, 2005, 1:12:20 PM7/13/05
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In article <4d89e78...@davenoise.co.uk>, "Dave Plowman (News)"
da...@davenoise.co.uk says...

> In article <42d536b4$0$13699$ed9e...@reading.news.pipex.net>,
> Christian McArdle <cmcar...@nospam.yahooxxxx.co.uk> wrote:
> > He apparently ran the shower without attaching it to the wall through a
> > extension lead from the next door house over the garden fence.
>
> > That isn't an accident it is suicide, or at the least worthy of a Darwin
> > award.
>
> Are there any electric showers that will work off a 13 amp extension lead
> without blowing the fuse?
>
>
If the fuse blows you just replace it with somethng a bit beefier ...

Andrew Gabriel

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Jul 13, 2005, 12:19:48 PM7/13/05
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In article <42D536...@rbgkew.org.uk>,

Mark A <m.annett...@rbgkew.org.uk> writes:
> Dark Angel wrote:
>>
>> Do you think this is why the government brought in those new laws on
>> Electrical Installation last year?

No. It was pushed by the trade bodies who were failing to get
electricians to join them, and looked on enviously at CORGI.

> I was told it was because a politician's daughter was electrocuted when

No, it started several years before that.

--
Andrew Gabriel

Christian McArdle

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Jul 13, 2005, 11:45:50 AM7/13/05
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> "It is essential that electrical installations are professionally
> fitted so these incidents can be avoided."

The reports of the standards of his work indicate that Part P would have
made no difference. Anyone who can run an electric shower off a 50m
extension lead without so much as screwing it to the wall is not going to be
pen pushing bureaucratic forms and getting the building inspector in.

Christian.


Chip

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Jul 13, 2005, 11:40:12 AM7/13/05
to
On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 16:12:29 +0100,it is alleged that Rob Morley
<nos...@ntlworld.com> spake thusly in uk.d-i-y:

>In article <42d52c84$0$2900$ed2e...@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net>,
>"Peter Crosland" g6...@yahoo.co.uk says...
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/4679129.stm
>>
>===============
>The coroner said: "It is clear that this has arisen from faulty
>electrical installation.
>

>"It is essential that electrical installations are professionally
>fitted so these incidents can be avoided."
>

>===============
>
>I think he meant to say

>"It is essential that electrical installations are PROPERLY fitted so

>these incidents can be avoided."

Indeed. While I extend my sympathy to his family, "Bridgend coroner
Philip Walters warned people doing DIY that they were risking their
lives" is unhelpful and irrelevant. Allowing electricity into your
house in the first place is 'risking your life' to a degree. The aim
of electrical installation practice is to minimize the risks and
ensure they're massively outweighed by the benefits. Good DIY people
do this, in many cases as well as or better than the 'professionals'.

--
Life is like a hot bath. It feels good while you're in it, but the
longer you stay in, the more wrinkled you get.
- Robbert Oustin

Bob Eager

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Jul 13, 2005, 12:06:07 PM7/13/05
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That incident happened long after the government lied about the accident
statistics to push the legislation through. And the victim had known
that the screw gave a 'tingle' for some time.


news

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Jul 13, 2005, 12:10:19 PM7/13/05
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darwinism in action.


RT


Rob Morley

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Jul 13, 2005, 11:12:29 AM7/13/05
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David Lang

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Jul 13, 2005, 5:35:20 PM7/13/05
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>> "It is essential that electrical installations are professionally fitted
>> so these incidents can be avoided."

Fitted a ceiling fan in my MIL's two year old, professionally built granny

James

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Jul 13, 2005, 2:51:45 PM7/13/05
to

"Christian McArdle" <cmcar...@nospam.yahooxxxx.co.uk> wrote in message
news:42d5372e$0$13702$ed9e...@reading.news.pipex.net...

Whilst extremely stupid, presumably running an electric shower off an
extension lead which is not screwed to the wall does not contravene Part P -
which only refers to fixed electrical installations in homes.

James


Andy Dingley

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Jul 13, 2005, 2:47:53 PM7/13/05
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On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 17:57:25 GMT, raden <ra...@kateda.org> wrote:

>No earthing in the house? a bodger

But I'll miss him anyway.

Poor old Dr Evil.

Uno Hoo!

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Jul 13, 2005, 1:58:54 PM7/13/05
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"Bob Eager" <rd...@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:176uZD2KcidF-p...@rikki.tavi.co.uk...

And was there any guarantee that the accident would not have occurred but
for the diagonal chase? How many non-technicl people, screwing into a wall,
give any thought whatsoever as to whether they may be a cable beneath the
plaster?

Kev


Dave Plowman (News)

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Jul 13, 2005, 6:08:40 PM7/13/05
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In article <+od8UQBY...@bancom.co.uk>,
tony sayer <to...@bancom.co.uk> wrote:
> Yes just "how" did he manage to run a shower of an extension lead?....

You're not a true bodger. You replace the fuse in the plug with a nail.
Obviously.

--
*Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot.

tony sayer

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Jul 13, 2005, 3:02:48 PM7/13/05
to
In article <42d5372e$0$13702$ed9e...@reading.news.pipex.net>, Christian
McArdle <cmcar...@nospam.yahooxxxx.co.uk> writes

Yes just "how" did he manage to run a shower of an extension lead?....
--
Tony Sayer

GymRatZ

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Jul 13, 2005, 3:29:05 PM7/13/05
to
tony sayer wrote:

> Yes just "how" did he manage to run a shower of an extension lead?....

Not very well it would seem!

Perhaps he wired his mothers house as well!

Now that is a scary thought.

Dave Plowman (News)

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Jul 13, 2005, 6:07:25 PM7/13/05
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In article <db3nj0$ej$1...@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>,

Dark Angel <darka...@StOpThEsPaMlineone.net> wrote:
> > Are there any electric showers that will work off a 13 amp extension
> > lead without blowing the fuse?

> Power showers, that use hot water from the DHW cylinder, simply use a
> 5amp supply to run the booster pump.

That's not what's commonly known as an electric shower, though.

--
*I didn't drive my husband crazy -- I flew him there -- it was faster

Rob Morley

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Jul 13, 2005, 2:51:37 PM7/13/05
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In article <db3nen$j35$1...@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>, "Uno Hoo!"
k...@dropthisbigfoot.com says...
Exactly - I think they should legislate to ban people making holes in
walls unless they are certified competent.

Andy Hall

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Jul 13, 2005, 6:13:56 PM7/13/05
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On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 17:57:25 GMT, raden <ra...@kateda.org> wrote:

>In message <42d52c84$0$2900$ed2e...@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net>, Peter
>Crosland <g6...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/4679129.stm
>>
>Well, as an installer of machines, he should have had more of a clue

I read it as more like a surrogate tax collector. Really in the same
league as money changers and sinners in the temple and dentists.


--

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

Lobster

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Jul 13, 2005, 3:58:28 PM7/13/05
to
Rob Morley wrote:

> The coroner said: "It is clear that this has arisen from faulty
> electrical installation.
>
> "It is essential that electrical installations are professionally
> fitted so these incidents can be avoided."
>
>

> I think he meant to say
> "It is essential that electrical installations are PROPERLY fitted so
> these incidents can be avoided."

I don't (unfortunately).

--
David

Dark Angel

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Jul 13, 2005, 2:46:57 PM7/13/05
to

"Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message...

> Are there any electric showers that will work off a 13 amp extension lead
> without blowing the fuse?

Power showers, that use hot water from the DHW cylinder, simply use a 5amp

supply to run the booster pump.

Whilst I have every sympathy for the family, the words "complete pillock"
spring to mind!

Bob Eager

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Jul 13, 2005, 4:05:14 PM7/13/05
to
On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 18:51:45 UTC, "James" <jamesnos...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

> "Christian McArdle" <cmcar...@nospam.yahooxxxx.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:42d5372e$0$13702$ed9e...@reading.news.pipex.net...
> >> "It is essential that electrical installations are professionally
> >> fitted so these incidents can be avoided."
> >
> > The reports of the standards of his work indicate that Part P would have
> > made no difference. Anyone who can run an electric shower off a 50m
> > extension lead without so much as screwing it to the wall is not going to
> > be
> > pen pushing bureaucratic forms and getting the building inspector in.
>

> Whilst extremely stupid, presumably running an electric shower off an
> extension lead which is not screwed to the wall does not contravene Part P -
> which only refers to fixed electrical installations in homes.

And for that very reason, Part P actually encourages such behaviour.

Message has been deleted

Andy Dingley

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Jul 13, 2005, 6:55:46 PM7/13/05
to
On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 15:08:36 +0000 (UTC), "Dark Angel"
<darka...@StOpThEsPaMlineone.net> wrote:

>Do you think this is why the government brought in those new laws on
>Electrical Installation last year?

No, not at all. It was mainly an attempt to stamp out "black economy"
electrical repairs by part-timers and moonlighting professionals. This
was aided by lobbying from the trade bodies, but that wasn't the main
cause.

There's some argument that the slightly skilled shouldn't be working for
other people (or else you have Dr Evil working as a fitter), but the
reaction against DIY will increase death and injury, not reduce it.
Most of the electrical wiring faults in UK housing are caused by _lack_
of maintenance, not poorly performed installation. This measure makes
that situation worse.

BIG NIGE

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Jul 13, 2005, 7:19:18 PM7/13/05
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"Rob Morley" <nos...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d3f73066...@news.individual.net...

> In article <db3nen$j35$1...@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>, "Uno Hoo!"
> k...@dropthisbigfoot.com says...

> Exactly - I think they should legislate to ban people making holes in
> walls unless they are certified competent.

At some point someone will drill into a pipe and drown - Then it will be the
plumbers turn for legislation.


Dave Plowman (News)

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Jul 13, 2005, 7:17:21 PM7/13/05
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In article <qc4bd15iabh69e5mr...@4ax.com>,

Andy Hall <an...@hall.nospam> wrote:
> I read it as more like a surrogate tax collector. Really in the same
> league as money changers and sinners in the temple and dentists.

Thought you just loved private medical care? ;-)

--
*I don't work here. I'm a consultant

Dave Plowman (News)

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Jul 13, 2005, 7:16:26 PM7/13/05
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In article <9fgBe.69238$G8.4...@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
BigWallop <spam.guard@_spam_guard.com> wrote:
> You might find they were done up tight when first installed, but have
> since come loose by heating and expanding and cooling and shrinking.
> That's why screw terminals aren't that good in places where they a
> difficult to maintain, because they can cause breaks in the circuits
> when they loosen off and drop the wiring.

I've never had a properly tightened terminal like this come loose - ie one
I've done. But plenty on other's installations.

--
*No radio - Already stolen.

Andy Dingley

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Jul 13, 2005, 8:28:58 PM7/13/05
to
On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 00:16:26 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
<da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

>I've never had a properly tightened terminal like this come loose

Then try it with cheap connectors (poor thread quality) and high
currents (more heating).

30A junction boxes use open-top terminals, partly to make wire entry
easier, but also because there's some compression between the sides of
the thread, to give a retaining efect on the grubscrew.

Message has been deleted

Andy Hall

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Jul 13, 2005, 9:09:20 PM7/13/05
to
On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 00:17:21 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
<da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

>In article <qc4bd15iabh69e5mr...@4ax.com>,
> Andy Hall <an...@hall.nospam> wrote:
>> I read it as more like a surrogate tax collector. Really in the same
>> league as money changers and sinners in the temple and dentists.
>
>Thought you just loved private medical care? ;-)


Yeah, I do.

But I still think of dentists along with brigands, murderers and
highwaymen. :-)

big...@meeow.co.uk

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Jul 13, 2005, 10:05:47 PM7/13/05
to
Chip wrote:

> Indeed. While I extend my sympathy to his family, "Bridgend coroner
> Philip Walters warned people doing DIY that they were risking their
> lives" is unhelpful and irrelevant. Allowing electricity into your
> house in the first place is 'risking your life' to a degree. The aim
> of electrical installation practice is to minimize the risks and
> ensure they're massively outweighed by the benefits. Good DIY people
> do this, in many cases as well as or better than the 'professionals'.


Its a sorry sad story, and illustrates the reality of consequences to
those that ignore them.

I dont think theres any practical way to stop idiots killing themselves
though. Whatever safeguards one has, if someone deliberately goes about
bypassing them all, as he evidenctly did, he will unfortunately live
with the results... or not live.

I have sympathy for the family, its awful. At the same time, it would
seem to be the predictable outcome of his remarkably stupid and
deliberate actions.

No amount of legislation or difficultisation would have made any
difference whatever.

Darwin applies. DIY is like driving, there are one or two that really
shouldnt do it.


NT

Andy Pandy

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Jul 14, 2005, 1:20:02 AM7/14/05
to
On 13 Jul 2005 20:05:14 GMT, "Bob Eager" <rd...@spamcop.net> wrote:


>> Whilst extremely stupid, presumably running an electric shower off an
>> extension lead which is not screwed to the wall does not contravene Part P -
>> which only refers to fixed electrical installations in homes.
>
>And for that very reason, Part P actually encourages such behaviour.

You're absolutely right of course.

The cost of employing a professional or of gaining approval will force
many people back into using extension leads, adapters and multiple
wired plugs and there will be more accidents than ever.

Andy

Message has been deleted

Rusty

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Jul 14, 2005, 5:07:19 AM7/14/05
to

"Andy Dingley" <din...@codesmiths.com> wrote in message
news:6bcbd115c16act0ah...@4ax.com...


Thats news to me. My grub screws spread the thread when tightened and make
things looser.

Dave Plowman (News)

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Jul 14, 2005, 5:00:44 AM7/14/05
to
In article <f7ebd1hrhtldqbmt5...@4ax.com>,

dave <da...@no.where> wrote:
> >I've never had a properly tightened terminal like this come loose - ie one
> >I've done.

> Such perfection...(clasp hands, look skywards)

> >But plenty on other's installations.

> Those minions can't tighten a screw for er, nuts!

One of the worst I came across was where a new kitchen which had been
fitted by a contractor, and this included the electrics. Not one of the
nationals, though. The house owner had a falling out with the firm and
wanted no more to do with them. There were problems early on with the
electrics. Not one single terminal in any socket or any switch had been
correctly tightened. Resulting in the insulation actually melting on the
'tails' in a couple of sockets.

Other than that, the electrics side looked a pro job. The new ring where
it ran through the cellar from the CU was neatly done with plenty of
equally spaced clips. And the connections for that to the CU *were*
properly tightened, and neatly paged.

I can only conclude it was a deliberate act to get extra work.

> Actually, I came across a *very* tight terminal screw once. It was
> getting very hot though. Turned out it was tightened on fresh air! The
> bus-link was tucked up behind it and making contact through
> spring-tension only! This was powering a 10kW shower and had been
> "working fine" for 12 months.

You get scruffy work everywhere. But I stand by my view that a correctly
tightened terminal won't work loose in domestic circumstances. If it was a
common occurrence, they wouldn't be used.

--
*The more I learn about women, the more I love my car

Dave Plowman (News)

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Jul 14, 2005, 4:47:36 AM7/14/05
to
In article <6bcbd115c16act0ah...@4ax.com>,

Andy Dingley <din...@codesmiths.com> wrote:
> >I've never had a properly tightened terminal like this come loose

> Then try it with cheap connectors (poor thread quality) and high
> currents (more heating).

I'd not use cheap connectors.

> 30A junction boxes use open-top terminals, partly to make wire entry
> easier, but also because there's some compression between the sides of
> the thread, to give a retaining efect on the grubscrew.

It's not just 30 amp types that are like this. But personally, I prefer
the bus bar type junction boxes.

--
*Why are a wise man and a wise guy opposites? *

PC Paul

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Jul 14, 2005, 7:22:05 AM7/14/05
to
"Rob Morley" <nos...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d3f5bcb...@news.individual.net...
> In article <4d89e78...@davenoise.co.uk>, "Dave Plowman (News)"
> da...@davenoise.co.uk says...
>> In article <42d536b4$0$13699$ed9e...@reading.news.pipex.net>,
>> Christian McArdle <cmcar...@nospam.yahooxxxx.co.uk> wrote:
>> > He apparently ran the shower without attaching it to the wall through a
>> > extension lead from the next door house over the garden fence.
>>
>> > That isn't an accident it is suicide, or at the least worthy of a
>> > Darwin
>> > award.

>>
>> Are there any electric showers that will work off a 13 amp extension lead
>> without blowing the fuse?
>>
>>
> If the fuse blows you just replace it with somethng a bit beefier ...

I've seen a nicely sawn steel bar used. Had the ends chamfered and
everything.


Rob Morley

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Jul 14, 2005, 9:58:43 AM7/14/05
to
In article <xVrBe.152127$Vj3....@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>, "PC
Paul" m...@home.com says...
Some of us are just more suited to mechanical engineering than
electrical engineering :-)

Dave Plowman (News)

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Jul 14, 2005, 10:03:38 AM7/14/05
to
In article <MPG.1d406b314...@news.individual.net>,

Rob Morley <nos...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> > I've seen a nicely sawn steel bar used. Had the ends chamfered and
> > everything.
> >
> Some of us are just more suited to mechanical engineering than
> electrical engineering :-)

Absolutely. A proper electrical engineer would have used brass.

--
*What am I? Flypaper for freaks!?

Message has been deleted

Joe

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Jul 14, 2005, 4:10:56 PM7/14/05
to

1/4 inch potentiometer spindles were once metal...

big...@meeow.co.uk

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Jul 14, 2005, 3:47:13 PM7/14/05
to
Rob Morley wrote:
> In article <4d89e78...@davenoise.co.uk>, "Dave Plowman (News)"
> da...@davenoise.co.uk says...
> > In article <42d536b4$0$13699$ed9e...@reading.news.pipex.net>,
> > Christian McArdle <cmcar...@nospam.yahooxxxx.co.uk> wrote:
> > > He apparently ran the shower without attaching it to the wall through a
> > > extension lead from the next door house over the garden fence.
> >
> > > That isn't an accident it is suicide, or at the least worthy of a Darwin
> > > award.
> >
> > Are there any electric showers that will work off a 13 amp extension lead
> > without blowing the fuse?
> >
> >
> If the fuse blows you just replace it with somethng a bit beefier ...


and if you immerse the lead in water it might just cool it enough for
the lead to survive...

... and boil you a cup of tea ready by the time you get out the shower.


NT


note to any budding moron: dont even think about it.

big...@meeow.co.uk

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Jul 14, 2005, 4:03:26 PM7/14/05
to


The extra sadness is the stats will never reveal the problem, as there
will be less than ever. How come?

Accident rates are slowly droppping as ancient installs get rewired -
bear in mind there are still people using deteriorted 1950s installs
around, mostly with the sockets replaced with square ones, but the rest
as original. (Even in the 80s I saw a WW1 era install still in regular
use.)

Part P slows this process to some extent, with no part P things would
get replaced quicker, and the accident rate wuold fall further.

We actually need do nothing at all for the already exceptionally low
death rates to continue to drop. They drop as people lose adaptors in
favour in 4&6 way strips, get extra sockets installed, replace ancient
unsafe kit as it dies and so on.

absolutely nothing is needed to improve safety, it will improve all by
itself.


If we genuinely wanted to improve things we could go with:

type C or D mcbs as standard on lighting,

the elimination of bathroom crossbonding on already bonded bathroooms,
ie soldered copper plumbed. (extra rewiring cost with no benefit)

and withdrawal of part p


NT

Andy Dingley

unread,
Jul 14, 2005, 6:42:11 PM7/14/05
to
On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 10:07:19 +0100, "Rusty" <ru...@666.fsnet.co.uk>
wrote:

>My grub screws spread the thread when tightened and make
>things looser.

That makes things _tighter_. The screws exert a force on the sides, and
v.v. This force acts as a threadlock, which is what you need, rather
than wire-clamping force which you can easily produce by tightening the
screws up. You just don't care about sideways forces on the wire -
they're not what's doing the clamping.

BIG NIGE

unread,
Jul 14, 2005, 7:20:24 PM7/14/05
to
In the early 60s my parents moved into a Pub The fuse we found on the
lighting circuit was a 4 inch nail I noticed it glowing which was what drew
my attention


"Joe" <j...@jretrading.com> wrote in message
news:db6d5m$f98$1$8302...@news.demon.co.uk...

John Rumm

unread,
Jul 15, 2005, 9:19:23 PM7/15/05
to
Andy Hall wrote:

> Yeah, I do.
>
> But I still think of dentists along with brigands, murderers and
> highwaymen. :-)

Ah, you have met my one... had an "Exam, Scale & Polish" today. Must
have been 20 mins work for 52 quid!

(still it is worth it for one that can carry out the whole procedure
without lacerating the inside of your mouth just by looking at it!)


--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

Owain

unread,
Jul 16, 2005, 10:37:04 AM7/16/05
to
John Rumm wrote:

> Andy Hall wrote:
>> But I still think of dentists along with brigands, murderers and
>> highwaymen. :-)
> Ah, you have met my one... had an "Exam, Scale & Polish" today. Must
> have been 20 mins work for 52 quid!

I usually pay about £8 for that and a couple of x-rays. But I am one of
the elite and privileged few on the National Health.

Owain

big...@meeow.co.uk

unread,
Jul 16, 2005, 12:11:23 PM7/16/05
to
Andy Hall wrote:

> But I still think of dentists along with brigands, murderers and
> highwaymen. :-)


you have a choice of what you pay. You can pay several £ a minute or
less than £1 a minute. Anyone can shop around and choose the service
they want. Some I've seen to are so cheap I dont know how they stay in
business. And some... well you can see how nicely theyre doing tyvm.

NT

John Rumm

unread,
Jul 16, 2005, 12:20:48 PM7/16/05
to
Owain wrote:

> I usually pay about £8 for that and a couple of x-rays. But I am one of
> the elite and privileged few on the National Health.

Hmm, tried that many years back (when it was an option), it is what made
me want to go private!

YMMV of course!

Owain

unread,
Jul 16, 2005, 3:06:00 PM7/16/05
to
John Rumm wrote:
>> ... But I am one of the elite and privileged few on the National Health.

> Hmm, tried that many years back (when it was an option), it is what made
> me want to go private!
> YMMV of course!

The cost of NHS care is worrying enough. I don't think I could get
private dental care on an insurance/capitation basis; I certainly
couldn't afford it.

I do not know if private general dental practitioners can refer to NHS
dental hospitals or whether hospital treatment would have to be private
too, but as I have teeth in strange places and the likelihood is that my
mouth will have to be dismantled and rebuilt[1] at some time, it's NHS
or dentures for me.

Actually, it'll probably be a choice of NHS dentures or no dentures.


Owain


[1] google maxillofacial surgery unless you're squeamish


Brian {Hamilton Kelly}

unread,
Jul 16, 2005, 8:16:46 PM7/16/05
to
On Wednesday, in article
<42d536b4$0$13699$ed9e...@reading.news.pipex.net>
cmcar...@nospam.yahooxxxx.co.uk "Christian McArdle" wrote:

> He apparently ran the shower without attaching it to the wall through a
> extension lead from the next door house over the garden fence.
>
> That isn't an accident it is suicide, or at the least worthy of a Darwin
> award.

My favorite candidate for the Darwin Award of 2005 has to be the ardent
Liverpool supporter who hanged himself when his team was 0-3 down against
AC Milan, not bothering to stay around to see Liverpool draw and then win
on penalties.

--
Brian {Hamilton Kelly} b...@dsl.co.uk
"Je n'ai fait celle-ci plus longue que parce que je n'ai pas eu
le loisir de la faire plus courte."
Blaise Pascal, /Lettres Provinciales/, 1657

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