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Alde gas leak 'bubble' detectors - any experience here?
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tin...@isbd.co.uk
Mar 13, 2012, 10:15:23 AM3/13/12
to
As part of sorting out the gas connections on our boat I'm considering
adding an Alde gas leak detector. Does anyone have any experience of
these? Are they any good? Are there better/cheaper ways of doing the
same thing (the Alde detectors cost more tha £40)?
Would a simple pressure guage be a better check - if the pressure
stays up with the gas turned off all is well! How long is long enough
for the pressure to stay up?
--
Chris Green
adding an Alde gas leak detector. Does anyone have any experience of
these? Are they any good? Are there better/cheaper ways of doing the
same thing (the Alde detectors cost more tha £40)?
Would a simple pressure guage be a better check - if the pressure
stays up with the gas turned off all is well! How long is long enough
for the pressure to stay up?
--
Chris Green
Onetap
Mar 13, 2012, 5:44:19 PM3/13/12
to
What are the Gas-Safe-type qualifications that would usually be expected for a gas installer working on a boat? Does anyone check (or care) whether the installation is inspected and certified?
The standard gas soundness test lasts for 2 minutes, any longer and the changes in ambient air temperature will affect the gas pressure.
js.b1
Mar 13, 2012, 6:48:47 PM3/13/12
to
Isn't gas on a boat LPG... which is heavier than air... which can
building from the bilge upwards... until it finds an ignition
source... whereupon propane in particular has a good bang?
Do the insurers make any particular stipulations?
On a caravan you have a vent in the floor so an LPG gas leak goes out
the bottom, with a boat this would unfortunately result in water
coming in.
I suspect the best solution is a bottom vented gas cylinder locker,
with remotely operated electrical solenoid which operates only with
gas demand. That way any leak can only vent out to the water, there is
no continuously pressurised pipework on the boat.
Skimping on an LPG leak detector on a boat may not be a good idea :-)
building from the bilge upwards... until it finds an ignition
source... whereupon propane in particular has a good bang?
Do the insurers make any particular stipulations?
On a caravan you have a vent in the floor so an LPG gas leak goes out
the bottom, with a boat this would unfortunately result in water
coming in.
I suspect the best solution is a bottom vented gas cylinder locker,
with remotely operated electrical solenoid which operates only with
gas demand. That way any leak can only vent out to the water, there is
no continuously pressurised pipework on the boat.
Skimping on an LPG leak detector on a boat may not be a good idea :-)
Onetap
Mar 13, 2012, 7:49:02 PM3/13/12
to
On Tuesday, March 13, 2012 10:48:47 PM UTC, js.b1 wrote:
> Isn't gas on a boat LPG... which is heavier than air... which can
> building from the bilge upwards... until it finds an ignition
> source... whereupon propane in particular has a good bang?
ISTR the cylinders have to be kept on deck with some arrangements to allow any gas leakage to go over the side. There's also a risk of asphyxiation due to the gas accumulating within the hull; there have been lots of gas explosions on boats. I'd assumed the OP knew more about applied gas fitting on boats.
> Isn't gas on a boat LPG... which is heavier than air... which can
> building from the bilge upwards... until it finds an ignition
> source... whereupon propane in particular has a good bang?
Peter Parry
Mar 14, 2012, 7:46:58 AM3/14/12
to
On Tue, 13 Mar 2012 14:15:23 +0000, tin...@isbd.co.uk wrote:
>As part of sorting out the gas connections on our boat I'm considering
>adding an Alde gas leak detector. Does anyone have any experience of
>these? Are they any good? Are there better/cheaper ways of doing the
>same thing (the Alde detectors cost more tha £40)?
I'm not sure they are particularly worthwhile. They should be fitted
>As part of sorting out the gas connections on our boat I'm considering
>adding an Alde gas leak detector. Does anyone have any experience of
>these? Are they any good? Are there better/cheaper ways of doing the
>same thing (the Alde detectors cost more tha £40)?
inside the gas locker so only test when the gas is first turned on and
although favoured by some as being simple and reliable they are quite
limited. If the boat is used infrequently they tend to produce
warning indications when there isn't really a problem. They therefore
get ignored. They also don't alert you to problems when the boat is
in use.
When working on the gas system a pressure test (manometer) and checks
of joints with leak detector fluid (washing up liquid) is more than
adequate. With competently fitted pipework the chance of a leak are
small. The system should include a pressure test point (sometimes
already built in to some appliances such as cookers) to allow periodic
pressure testing and I would prefer this rather than a bubbler.
Many boat incidents involve problems with appliances in use so
I'd put a bilge gas alarm as a higher priority. (although such an
alarm should be mounted not in the bilges (they don't survive getting
wet) but just above the cabin sole plate and where stuff can't drip on
them).
http://www.boatsafetyscheme.com/downloads/BSS_Guide_chap7.pdf is a
good guide if you haven't already found it.
tin...@isbd.co.uk
Mar 14, 2012, 8:02:13 AM3/14/12
to
Onetap <one...@talk21.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 13, 2012 2:15:23 PM UTC, (unknown) wrote:
> > As part of sorting out the gas connections on our boat I'm considering
> > adding an Alde gas leak detector. Does anyone have any experience of
> > these? Are they any good? Are there better/cheaper ways of doing the
> > same thing (the Alde detectors cost more tha £40)?
> >
> > Would a simple pressure guage be a better check - if the pressure
> > stays up with the gas turned off all is well! How long is long enough
> > for the pressure to stay up?
> >
> > --
> > Chris Green
>
> There is a permissible pressure drop on gas installations in houses, but it only applies to existing installations that are being tested for gas tightness. A new installation should have no leaks and no pressure drops; soldering copper gas pipes is a doddle and there's no reason or excuse for leaks. This would apply all the more on a boat.
>
For some reason I don't think soldered joints are approved/allowed on
> On Tuesday, March 13, 2012 2:15:23 PM UTC, (unknown) wrote:
> > As part of sorting out the gas connections on our boat I'm considering
> > adding an Alde gas leak detector. Does anyone have any experience of
> > these? Are they any good? Are there better/cheaper ways of doing the
> > same thing (the Alde detectors cost more tha £40)?
> >
> > Would a simple pressure guage be a better check - if the pressure
> > stays up with the gas turned off all is well! How long is long enough
> > for the pressure to stay up?
> >
> > --
> > Chris Green
>
> There is a permissible pressure drop on gas installations in houses, but it only applies to existing installations that are being tested for gas tightness. A new installation should have no leaks and no pressure drops; soldering copper gas pipes is a doddle and there's no reason or excuse for leaks. This would apply all the more on a boat.
>
boat installations, otherwise I'd quite agree.
--
Chris Green
tin...@isbd.co.uk
Mar 14, 2012, 8:06:45 AM3/14/12
to
on the bathing platform, any leakage from the high pressure side of
things just goes out into open air.
--
Chris Green
tin...@isbd.co.uk
Mar 14, 2012, 8:16:39 AM3/14/12
to
Peter Parry <pe...@wpp.ltd.uk> wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Mar 2012 14:15:23 +0000, tin...@isbd.co.uk wrote:
>
> >As part of sorting out the gas connections on our boat I'm considering
> >adding an Alde gas leak detector. Does anyone have any experience of
> >these? Are they any good? Are there better/cheaper ways of doing the
> >same thing (the Alde detectors cost more tha £40)?
>
> I'm not sure they are particularly worthwhile. They should be fitted
> inside the gas locker so only test when the gas is first turned on and
> although favoured by some as being simple and reliable they are quite
> limited. If the boat is used infrequently they tend to produce
> warning indications when there isn't really a problem. They therefore
> get ignored. They also don't alert you to problems when the boat is
> in use.
>
OK.
> On Tue, 13 Mar 2012 14:15:23 +0000, tin...@isbd.co.uk wrote:
>
> >As part of sorting out the gas connections on our boat I'm considering
> >adding an Alde gas leak detector. Does anyone have any experience of
> >these? Are they any good? Are there better/cheaper ways of doing the
> >same thing (the Alde detectors cost more tha £40)?
>
> I'm not sure they are particularly worthwhile. They should be fitted
> inside the gas locker so only test when the gas is first turned on and
> although favoured by some as being simple and reliable they are quite
> limited. If the boat is used infrequently they tend to produce
> warning indications when there isn't really a problem. They therefore
> get ignored. They also don't alert you to problems when the boat is
> in use.
>
> When working on the gas system a pressure test (manometer) and checks
> of joints with leak detector fluid (washing up liquid) is more than
> adequate. With competently fitted pipework the chance of a leak are
> small. The system should include a pressure test point (sometimes
> already built in to some appliances such as cookers) to allow periodic
> pressure testing and I would prefer this rather than a bubbler.
>
http://www.tradecounterdirect.com/testing-equipment/gas-testing/rothenberger-u-gauge-manometer_-24-inch.html
> Many boat incidents involve problems with appliances in use so
> I'd put a bilge gas alarm as a higher priority. (although such an
> alarm should be mounted not in the bilges (they don't survive getting
> wet) but just above the cabin sole plate and where stuff can't drip on
> them).
>
collect either from the gas hob or from the gas heater.
> http://www.boatsafetyscheme.com/downloads/BSS_Guide_chap7.pdf is a
> good guide if you haven't already found it.
>
everything right.
--
Chris Green
tin...@isbd.co.uk
Mar 14, 2012, 8:05:04 AM3/14/12
to
js.b1 <js...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> I suspect the best solution is a bottom vented gas cylinder locker,
> with remotely operated electrical solenoid which operates only with
> gas demand. That way any leak can only vent out to the water, there is
> no continuously pressurised pipework on the boat.
>
Our gas locker is effectively outside the boat on the bathing platform
>
> I suspect the best solution is a bottom vented gas cylinder locker,
> with remotely operated electrical solenoid which operates only with
> gas demand. That way any leak can only vent out to the water, there is
> no continuously pressurised pipework on the boat.
>
so any leakage there cannot get into the boat.
> Skimping on an LPG leak detector on a boat may not be a good idea :-)
--
Chris Green
Peter Parry
Mar 14, 2012, 9:01:10 AM3/14/12
to
Very little if you make one. Suitable plastic tube can be found in
DIY places or aquarium suppliers. Make sure you get a piece which
will fit your test point and is long enough to reach it.
> Could I use one like this for example:-
> http://www.tradecounterdirect.com/testing-equipment/gas-testing/rothenberger-u-gauge-manometer_-24-inch.html
The 24" (60mb) would be fine, the 12" only goes to 30mb. Butane
regulators usually work at about 28mb, Propane at about 37mb.
I tend to use just a long length of thin flexible plastic tube nailed
in a 24" "U" shape to a board with some fencing staples similar to
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Screws%20&%20Fixings/Galvanised%20Nails/Galvanised%20Staple%201/2%20kg/d90/sd2140/p12700
Put some water in, pressurise the system and mark the highest level.
Turn off the gas cylinder and watch the level for 2 minutes (you can
do it for longer but variations in temperature may cause small
movements). The beauty of manometers is that they are simply and
utterly reliable.
The home made version can be stowed somewhere on the boat so it is
available if you ever feel the need to test again (for example the gas
alarm sounding). Because it measures not only pressure but shows the
rate of change of pressure it can be used to differentiate between
slow and faster leaks which can be useful when fault finding.
DIY places or aquarium suppliers. Make sure you get a piece which
will fit your test point and is long enough to reach it.
> Could I use one like this for example:-
> http://www.tradecounterdirect.com/testing-equipment/gas-testing/rothenberger-u-gauge-manometer_-24-inch.html
regulators usually work at about 28mb, Propane at about 37mb.
I tend to use just a long length of thin flexible plastic tube nailed
in a 24" "U" shape to a board with some fencing staples similar to
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Screws%20&%20Fixings/Galvanised%20Nails/Galvanised%20Staple%201/2%20kg/d90/sd2140/p12700
Put some water in, pressurise the system and mark the highest level.
Turn off the gas cylinder and watch the level for 2 minutes (you can
do it for longer but variations in temperature may cause small
movements). The beauty of manometers is that they are simply and
utterly reliable.
The home made version can be stowed somewhere on the boat so it is
available if you ever feel the need to test again (for example the gas
alarm sounding). Because it measures not only pressure but shows the
rate of change of pressure it can be used to differentiate between
slow and faster leaks which can be useful when fault finding.
tin...@isbd.co.uk
Mar 14, 2012, 9:40:47 AM3/14/12
to
Peter Parry <pe...@wpp.ltd.uk> wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Mar 2012 12:16:39 +0000, tin...@isbd.co.uk wrote:
>
>
> >How much for a manometer?
>
> Very little if you make one. Suitable plastic tube can be found in
> DIY places or aquarium suppliers. Make sure you get a piece which
> will fit your test point and is long enough to reach it.
>
That sounds a very sensible proposition! Inches of water is very easy
> On Wed, 14 Mar 2012 12:16:39 +0000, tin...@isbd.co.uk wrote:
>
>
> >How much for a manometer?
>
> Very little if you make one. Suitable plastic tube can be found in
> DIY places or aquarium suppliers. Make sure you get a piece which
> will fit your test point and is long enough to reach it.
>
to measure! :-) I can put it somewhere nice and accessible which
would allow me o check in the warm and dry.
> > Could I use one like this for example:-
>
> > http://www.tradecounterdirect.com/testing-equipment/gas-testing/rothenberger-u-gauge-manometer_-24-inch.html
>
> The 24" (60mb) would be fine, the 12" only goes to 30mb. Butane
> regulators usually work at about 28mb, Propane at about 37mb.
>
> I tend to use just a long length of thin flexible plastic tube nailed
> in a 24" "U" shape to a board with some fencing staples similar to
> http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Screws%20&%20Fixings/Galvanised%20Nails/Galvanised%20Staple%201/2%20kg/d90/sd2140/p12700
>
> Put some water in, pressurise the system and mark the highest level.
> Turn off the gas cylinder and watch the level for 2 minutes (you can
> do it for longer but variations in temperature may cause small
> movements). The beauty of manometers is that they are simply and
> utterly reliable.
>
> The home made version can be stowed somewhere on the boat so it is
> available if you ever feel the need to test again (for example the gas
> alarm sounding). Because it measures not only pressure but shows the
> rate of change of pressure it can be used to differentiate between
> slow and faster leaks which can be useful when fault finding.
>
of plastic" manometer being made in the next few days.
--
Chris Green
tin...@isbd.co.uk
Mar 14, 2012, 11:15:32 AM3/14/12
to
tin...@isbd.co.uk wrote:
[I should proof read better]
--
Chris Green
[I should proof read better]
> Peter Parry <pe...@wpp.ltd.uk> wrote:
> > On Wed, 14 Mar 2012 12:16:39 +0000, tin...@isbd.co.uk wrote:
> >
> >
> > >How much for a manometer?
> >
> > Very little if you make one. Suitable plastic tube can be found in
> > DIY places or aquarium suppliers. Make sure you get a piece which
> > will fit your test point and is long enough to reach it.
> >
> That sounds a very sensible proposition! Inches of water is very easy
> to measure! :-) I can put it somewhere nice and accessible which
> would allow me o check in the warm and dry.
...me to check....
> > On Wed, 14 Mar 2012 12:16:39 +0000, tin...@isbd.co.uk wrote:
> >
> >
> > >How much for a manometer?
> >
> > Very little if you make one. Suitable plastic tube can be found in
> > DIY places or aquarium suppliers. Make sure you get a piece which
> > will fit your test point and is long enough to reach it.
> >
> That sounds a very sensible proposition! Inches of water is very easy
> to measure! :-) I can put it somewhere nice and accessible which
> would allow me o check in the warm and dry.
>
>
> > > Could I use one like this for example:-
> >
> > > http://www.tradecounterdirect.com/testing-equipment/gas-testing/rothenberger-u-gauge-manometer_-24-inch.html
> >
> > The 24" (60mb) would be fine, the 12" only goes to 30mb. Butane
> > regulators usually work at about 28mb, Propane at about 37mb.
> >
> Yes, I realise the 24" is needed, we have propane at 3mmbar.
37mbar.
>
> > > Could I use one like this for example:-
> >
> > > http://www.tradecounterdirect.com/testing-equipment/gas-testing/rothenberger-u-gauge-manometer_-24-inch.html
> >
> > The 24" (60mb) would be fine, the 12" only goes to 30mb. Butane
> > regulators usually work at about 28mb, Propane at about 37mb.
> >
> Yes, I realise the 24" is needed, we have propane at 3mmbar.
--
Chris Green
Dave Liquorice
Mar 14, 2012, 4:16:33 PM3/14/12
to
On Tue, 13 Mar 2012 15:48:47 -0700 (PDT), js.b1 wrote:
> On a caravan you have a vent in the floor so an LPG gas leak goes out
> the bottom, with a boat this would unfortunately result in water
> coming in.
Only if the vent at the bottom of the gas locker was below the water
> On a caravan you have a vent in the floor so an LPG gas leak goes out
> the bottom, with a boat this would unfortunately result in water
> coming in.
line. B-)
--
Cheers
Dave.
gri...@gmail.com
Mar 14, 2012, 4:52:42 PM3/14/12
to
action - quite defied common sense.
Dave Liquorice
Mar 14, 2012, 5:12:33 PM3/14/12
to
On Wed, 14 Mar 2012 20:52:42 +0000, gri...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On a caravan you have a vent in the floor so an LPG gas leak goes
out
>>> the bottom, with a boat this would unfortunately result in water
>>> coming in.
>>
>> Only if the vent at the bottom of the gas locker was below the
water
>> line. B-)
>
> I was quite tickled the first time I saw an active bailing bung in
> action - quite defied common sense.
Cor a Google Whack:
>>> On a caravan you have a vent in the floor so an LPG gas leak goes
out
>>> the bottom, with a boat this would unfortunately result in water
>>> coming in.
>>
>> Only if the vent at the bottom of the gas locker was below the
water
>> line. B-)
>
> I was quite tickled the first time I saw an active bailing bung in
> action - quite defied common sense.
No results found for "active bailing bung".
Results for active bailing bung (without quotes):
Do you mean one of
these:
http://www.chandlerycompare.com/products.php?categoryId=1168&productId
=2574
--
Cheers
Dave.
gri...@gmail.com
Mar 15, 2012, 5:27:04 PM3/15/12
to
As the boat sped along, the spray that landed in the bilges was sucked
out/drained away.
insertnic...@gmail.com
Feb 24, 2016, 11:26:03 AM2/24/16
to
johnje...@gmail.com
Feb 24, 2016, 1:07:49 PM2/24/16
to
Isn't there still a how to carry out a gas soundness test section in the wiki?
johnje...@gmail.com
Feb 24, 2016, 1:25:46 PM2/24/16
to
Found the diy wiki gas fitting section where in a previous incarnation I contributed the soundness test for natural gas. Similar underlying principles will apply to propane at the higher pressure. If I come across my old manuals for lpg I'll try to add the appropriate procedure.
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Gas_fitting_FAQ
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Gas_fitting_FAQ
johnje...@gmail.com
Feb 24, 2016, 1:26:23 PM2/24/16
to
c...@isbd.net
Feb 24, 2016, 1:33:05 PM2/24/16
to
The bubble tester has been installed for a long time.
--
Chris Green
·
Peter Parry
Feb 24, 2016, 1:37:07 PM2/24/16
to
On Wed, 24 Feb 2016 08:25:55 -0800 (PST), insertnic...@gmail.com
wrote:
>On Tuesday, 13 March 2012 14:15:23 UTC, tin...@isbd.co.uk wrote:
>> As part of sorting out the gas connections on our boat I'm considering
>> adding an Alde gas leak detector. Does anyone have any experience of
>> these? Are they any good? Are there better/cheaper ways of doing the
>> same thing (the Alde detectors cost more tha £40)?
>>
>> Would a simple pressure guage be a better check - if the pressure
>> stays up with the gas turned off all is well! How long is long enough
>> for the pressure to stay up?
out of gas.
wrote:
>On Tuesday, 13 March 2012 14:15:23 UTC, tin...@isbd.co.uk wrote:
>> As part of sorting out the gas connections on our boat I'm considering
>> adding an Alde gas leak detector. Does anyone have any experience of
>> these? Are they any good? Are there better/cheaper ways of doing the
>> same thing (the Alde detectors cost more tha £40)?
>>
>> Would a simple pressure guage be a better check - if the pressure
>> stays up with the gas turned off all is well! How long is long enough
>> for the pressure to stay up?
>A pressure gauge will not detect the tiny leaks that a bubble tester will. It's not worth cutting corners on your budget here.
13 March 2012? I think he has either blown the boat up by now or run
out of gas.
harry
Feb 25, 2016, 2:21:41 AM2/25/16
to
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