Thunderbird settings to read Usenet News?

[Clive Page]

I've moved to a new Windows computer and installed Thunderbird version 115.1.1 on it and transferred the old profile folder. It works fine for email and is picking up Usenet News but I can't get the Usenet News display working as it did before - now every message sequence turns into a thread showing just the first line or two of each message. And if click on the top level it opens every dependent posting in a new tab.

As far as I can see every setting for folders, layout, threads etc. is exactly the same as on my old computer, but clearly something is different. Has anyone else had a similar problem?

--
Clive Page

[Pancho]

Hum. 115 is a brand spanking new version. Old versions 102 don't update
automatically.

As I see it, you have two choices.

1) You act as a canary for the rest of us. If you survive, you tell us
how to solve problems. Tell us if an upgrade is worthwhile.

2) Uninstall 115, download an old version. 102.

I've had bad experiences with new versions of Thunderbird.

[HVS]

On 24 Aug 2023, Pancho wrote

I'm with you -- I'd stick with the current consumer version (102.14).

Although they've issued version 115, it's only available direct from
Thunderbird, not as an upgrade from 102 (which they state is expected
in a future release).

Third-party download sites like Majorgeeks are still offering 102.14
rather than 115, so it sounds like a release for the testing/feedback
community rather than general use.

--
Cheers, Harvey

[SteveW]

On 24/08/2023 14:53, Clive Page wrote:

I installed 115 the other day, after a computer upgrade.

It's working OK, but is different from what I was used to.

Clicking on the top post in a collapsed thread causes the first few
lines of each post in that thread to be displayed. Then clicking on the
expand arrow for that selected thread causes the tree to expand and that
top post's contents to be displayed.

Clicking on the expand arrow of a thread, that I have not already
selected the top post of, expands the thread, but does not change the
contents window from whatever was showing from the previous read
message. Then clicking on a post causes its contents to be displayed.

Also, the Unread/Starred/Contact/Tags/Attachment filter buttons are not
shown by default, but clicking the Quick Filter button brought them up
and they have remained there ever since.

[Clive Page]

Thanks. That is pretty much what I'm getting. I thought my old Thunderbird was up to date which is why I assumed the new installation would be the same, but now I've checked the old one is indeed 102.14.1 so the best thing is to downgrade to that, if I can. Thanks for all the responses.

Regards


--
Clive Page

[Paul]

On 8/24/2023 9:53 AM, Clive Page wrote:
> I've moved to a new Windows computer and installed Thunderbird version 115.1.1 on it and transferred the old profile folder. It works fine for email and is picking up Usenet News but I can't get the Usenet News display working as it did before - now every message sequence turns into a thread showing just the first line or two of each message.  And if click on the top level it opens every dependent posting in a new tab.
>
> As far as I can see every setting for folders, layout, threads etc. is exactly the same as on my old computer, but clearly something is different.  Has anyone else had a similar problem?
>

The 102.x.x stream is the old reliable release.

The 115 stream is a re-write called SUPERNOVA.
The part that fetches USENET News is written in Javascript, instead of C.

http://releases.mozilla.org/pub/thunderbird/releases/

102.14.0/ Latest, of the "Old reliable release"

115.1.1/ Latest, of the SUPERNOVA version

The purpose of the SUPERNOVA version, is to make money.
They will be making add-ons for the program, to improve
aspects of it. And those will be paid add-ons. Since we
have not seen any of these add-ons, it remains to be seen
whether there is a value proposition involved. Who knows, if
you buy enough add-ons, it looks like the old version ?

Paul

[SteveW]

I'm sticking with the new one - it's only one extra click per thread.

[Clive Page]

On 24/08/2023 18:06, SteveW wrote:
> I'm sticking with the new one - it's only one extra click per thread.
>

I think it's worse than that, at least the way I use it.

Anyhow: I have found v102.14.0 on MajorGeeks and installed it. When you run Thunderbird it objects to an incompatible profile and tries to persuade you to create a new one, which will of course require setting up all your email/news accounts again which would be very tedious. But there is a way around this:

Find the new .exe file and start Thunderbird once using the path to the .exe file with a switch
.\thunderbird --allow-downgrade
This seems to work, and in future the existing icon starts up the old version without any protest. I can't see anything that's broken.

In the mean time it may be sensible to disable automatic updates and be wary of the Supernova version, in case it explodes when you don't expect it to.


--
Clive Page

[Bob Henson]

The worst bit about the threading (OK, none of it is good) is that the
lines connecting the elements of the thread have gone forever, making
long multiple mested threads nearly impossible to read.

--
Tetbury, Gloucestershire , UK

Inside every old man is a young man wondering what the hell happened.

[Bob Henson]

I've managed to get my 115 useable again but it has taken ages and more
or less as it used to be - but it still is not as good as it was when I
last used it some years back. Many of the good extensions writers have
given up after all their work was ruined for the umpteenth time.

[Andy Burns]

that behaviour is new to v115

if you click on the right-facing "twisty" arrow to the left of the
subject column, it will expand the list of messages

[Andy Burns]

Clive Page wrote:

> I thought my old Thunderbird was up to date which is why I assumed the
> new installation would be the same

There are two "current" versions at the moment, v102.x is for existing
users and v115.x is for now only being given to new users, I've been on
v115 for several weeks and have knocked it into shape so it looks almost
identical to v102

> but now I've checked the old one is
> indeed 102.14.1 so the best thing is to downgrade to that, if I can.

I would be wary of that, if you took a backup before installing v115 you
could restore to it, but if not, your data will have been converted from
v102 to v115, so a downgrade may not go smoothly ...

[Andy Burns]

Paul wrote:

> The 115 stream is a re-write called SUPERNOVA. The part that fetches
> USENET News is written in Javascript, instead of C.

true, but 102.x has included the javascript implementation of NNTP for
several months, with no option to switch back to C implementation.

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 24/08/2023 14:53, Clive Page wrote:

try view->threads->unread
--
"Women actually are capable of being far more than the feminists will
let them."

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 24/08/2023 18:43, Andy Burns wrote:
> Clive Page wrote:
>
>> I thought my old Thunderbird was up to date which is why I assumed the
>> new installation would be the same
>
> There are two "current" versions at the moment, v102.x is for existing
> users and v115.x is for now only being given to new users, I've been on
> v115 for several weeks and have knocked it into shape so it looks almost
> identical to v102

Debian and friends seem in no hurry to serve up 115. My impression is
that its full of creeping featurism. And needs a good weed.

[John Rumm]

Do * and \ still work to expand and collapse all threads?

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

[Andy Burns]

John Rumm wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> if you click on the right-facing "twisty" arrow to the left of the
>> subject column, it will expand the list of messages
>>
> Do * and \ still work to expand and collapse all threads?

Yes they do, I'm kind of wishing there was an option to auto-collapse
threads on changing between groups.

[alan_m]

On 24/08/2023 18:58, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 24/08/2023 18:43, Andy Burns wrote:
>> Clive Page wrote:
>>
>>> I thought my old Thunderbird was up to date which is why I assumed
>>> the new installation would be the same
>>
>> There are two "current" versions at the moment, v102.x is for existing
>> users and v115.x is for now only being given to new users, I've been
>> on v115 for several weeks and have knocked it into shape so it looks
>> almost identical to v102
>
> Debian and friends seem in no hurry to serve up 115. My impression is
> that its  full of creeping featurism. And needs a good weed.

Usually a sign of getting near the end of its useful life and becoming
bloatware.

I've lost count of the number of software packages I've ditched in past
30+ years where someone has decided to change the GUI or rewrite the
code only for it to become slower and more buggy.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

[Bob Henson]

I've ditched Thunderbird in the past for that reason, certainly. The
only reason I'm back with it is partially curiosity but mainly because
does email, RSS feeds and Usenet (albeit the latter only poorly) all in
one package. However, the work involved in making 115 useful again was
hardly worth it. I wish developers would take the old computer adage
seriously and "if it works, don't fix it." I think the real devs are
usually overridden by the bean counters and mainly by the marketing
people. The latter have to change things for better or for worse (they
don't care which) just to justify their existence.

[Clive Page]

I've downloaded the 'old' version 102.14.0 and forced it to accept the profile from the new version, and it seems to be happy and I can access Usenet News just like I could before. But I agree with the comments - too many new features that I don't want while messing up the functionality of the old ones, like Usenet News.

Clive Page

[Mark]

> On 24/08/2023 14:53, Clive Page wrote:
>> I've moved to a new Windows computer and installed Thunderbird version
>> 115.1.1 on it and transferred the old profile folder. It works fine for
>> email and is picking up Usenet News but I can't get the Usenet News
>> display working as it did before

try XPN 1.2.6 if you dont need email, RSS feeds its just simple nntp

--

[Andy Burns]

alan_m wrote:

> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> My impression is that its full of creeping featurism. And needs a
>> good weed.
>
> Usually a sign of getting near the end of its useful life and becoming
> bloatware.

I don't think it's at that point, I've been using v115 on my home
machine for several weeks, with just a few tweaks* to make it look
pretty damned similar to v103, haven't upgraded the work machine yet,
but won't have any worries about it upgrading once they take the blocker
off.

The changes aren't from adding features, but from re-implementing chunks
of the UI to use libraries that *are* still maintained by
mozilla/firefox devs, rather than old crusty libraries abandoned several
years ago.

Overall it should make it better supported, sure there are a couple of
things that changed during the re-write, which if I could turn them off,
I would do.



[*] If anyone gets the v115 upgrade and wants to use the tweaks, look
for my posts in a.c.s.thunderbird.

[Vir Campestris]

On 24/08/2023 18:56, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 24/08/2023 14:53, Clive Page wrote:
>> I've moved to a new Windows computer and installed Thunderbird version
>> 115.1.1 on it and transferred the old profile folder. It works fine
>> for email and is picking up Usenet News but I can't get the Usenet
>> News display working as it did before - now every message sequence
>> turns into a thread showing just the first line or two of each
>> message.  And if click on the top level it opens every dependent
>> posting in a new tab.
>>
>> As far as I can see every setting for folders, layout, threads etc. is
>> exactly the same as on my old computer, but clearly something is
>> different.  Has anyone else had a similar problem?
>>
> try view->threads->unread

If it only worked.

I used to use that all the time, but I'm getting some kind of database
corruptions. I arrive in a group to find it isn't sorting things by
threads. Turn that back on, then view/threads/unread and suddenly there
are no messages. Exit the group, back in, and I have all messages but
unthreaded.

It happens to one group or other most days.

Andy

[Andy Burns]

Vir Campestris wrote:

> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>

>> try view->threads->unread
>
> If it only worked.
> I used to use that all the time,

I use the quick filter toolbar "unread", usually with the "sticky pin"
option so it persists when changing between groups

[The Natural Philosopher]

Oh yes. Had that one. delete the group and rejoin it works for a while

> Andy

--
To ban Christmas, simply give turkeys the vote.

[Vir Campestris]

I can "repair" the group (right click it, properties, repair folder) and
that sorts it out.

But.

It pops up a dialogue asking how many messages I want to download,
twice, and the Z order of the popups is a bit random so sometimes I have
to do it two or three times.

Andy