Is my soil pipe too high where it connects to the toilet?

[Tom Pickles]

Hi,

As part of my bathroom refit, I've swapped the setup from

wall > bath > toilet > basin > wall

to

wall > bath > basin > toilet > wall

Due to the way the soil pipe connects to the stack, I've had to use a flexi-toilet connector. The total horizontal run of soil pipe is 1.5m from stack to toilet.

I'm somewhat anxious about the height of the toilet outlet being ever-so slightly lower than the soil pipe where it joins. It's really just on the nose by the look of it, but there is a slight water drip from the toilet connector and I'm concerned that this setup may cause issues in the future with flushing/blockages/leaks.

Is this going to be OK, or is there anything I can do to fix it? Lowering the stack is not an option as it's all boxed in and I've fixed, tiled siliconed the bath in place.

Photo's below:

http://i.imgur.com/QqWpK.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/P0Ig1.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/5BbZa.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/UFzeg.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Q6K8k.jpg

Thanks!

[Phil L]

Is the toilet connected to this stack already?

According to that level, the soil pipe is running down a mile - away from
the bog - 1 in 40 is the norm, IE it runs down 1 inch in height for 40
inches of length - it could be flat and you'd have no problems, yours
appears to run down an inch in the length of the level

You can stop the drip from the pan connector with a bead of silicone, but I
fear more information is required here - that pipe looks awfully high to
already be connected to the bog?

[Roger Mills]

If I interpret your photos correctly, there is a bit of fall on the
'horizontal' pipe, but the flexible connecting the toilet to this is
slightly "uphill".

If that's the case, the flexible will always retain some liquid (or
solid!) which may then escape unless the joint is perfect. You really
need a bit of fall all the way to the stack, with no low points.

You *may* be able to lower the toilet end of the horizontal pipe a tad -
but you haven't got much to play with (only about half a bubble).
Alternatively, you could make a little plinth for the toilet to sit on.
It would probably only need to be an inch or so high.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
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[Tom Pickles]

On Friday, January 4, 2013 5:27:55 PM UTC, Roger Mills wrote:

> If I interpret your photos correctly, there is a bit of fall on the
>
> 'horizontal' pipe, but the flexible connecting the toilet to this is
>
> slightly "uphill".
>
>
>
> If that's the case, the flexible will always retain some liquid (or
>
> solid!) which may then escape unless the joint is perfect. You really
>
> need a bit of fall all the way to the stack, with no low points.
>
>
>
> You *may* be able to lower the toilet end of the horizontal pipe a tad -
>
> but you haven't got much to play with (only about half a bubble).
>
> Alternatively, you could make a little plinth for the toilet to sit on.
>
> It would probably only need to be an inch or so high.

Thanks for your reply's.

There's between a half an inch and an inch of height difference between the toilet outlet and the height of the soil pipe, with the toilet being lower.

I've just found this on Wickes' site:

http://www.wickes.co.uk/110mm-connector-for-wall-pans-wc-f21r/invt/227040/

It looks like it should sort out the drip issue as the jubilee clip will create a good seal on the bog. The flush is quite efficient, giving quite a blast of water to clear the pan. So I'm hoping it will blast all the contents of the pan up the slight incline after use.

The toilet is connected to the stack already, but nobody's used it in anger yet.

I'd rather not use a plinth as it may look a bit naff (I'm not the best carpenter), but if I have to, then I will. What would I do, just find an inch thick piece of pine and cut it to fit?

Thanks.

[Tim Watts]

The main pipe has more than enough fall on it, away from the loo, if I can
see the spirit bubble right.

I would try *really hard* to lose the flexi connector - or at least that one
- it's forming a loop that will only cause grief.

Can you not get a smooth bend connector on?

Re the drip - it is often a good idea to apply liberal amounts of plumbers
grease (a very heavy silicone grease I think) to pan joints to get a good
seal if the porelain is not perfectly smooth - or a smear of silicone rubber
which will be a lubricant until it sets.

--
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[Tom Pickles]

On Friday, January 4, 2013 5:54:17 PM UTC, Tim Watts wrote:
>
>
> The main pipe has more than enough fall on it, away from the loo, if I can
>
> see the spirit bubble right.
>
>
>
> I would try *really hard* to lose the flexi connector - or at least that one
>
> - it's forming a loop that will only cause grief.
>
>
>
> Can you not get a smooth bend connector on?
>
>
>
> Re the drip - it is often a good idea to apply liberal amounts of plumbers
>
> grease (a very heavy silicone grease I think) to pan joints to get a good
>
> seal if the porelain is not perfectly smooth - or a smear of silicone rubber
>
> which will be a lubricant until it sets.

I had to use the flexi connector unfortunately as the soil pipe leans in towards the wall as it get's nearer to the toilet due to the stack's position:

http://i.imgur.com/XtlCR.jpg

I've just seen this and I like the look of it:

http://www.wickes.co.uk/110mm-connector-for-wall-pans-wc-f21r/invt/227040/

Looks more sturdy than the one I currently have and hopefully won't 'pull' away from the pan connector due to it's inertia.

[The Natural Philosopher]

i'd cast one in concrete or car body filler

Inside a plasticene mould

Make it a bit undersized and fill the gap with silicone maybe. Or white
sand and cement.


> Thanks.
>


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

[The Natural Philosopher]

IN my case I peeled the joint back a little and injected masses of
silicone into it

Took two goes, but its been solid for 10 years.

[Tim Watts]

I would be inclined to use one of these:

http://www.mytub.co.uk/product_information.php?product=615479

or

http://www.alcaplast.com/products/products/pre-wall-installation-
systems/accessories/wc-accessories/a90-90/

[1]


and - *if* there's not enough latitude in the pan end (many are designed to
go on a slight angles if necessary), then use one of these in the straight
to correct the angle:

http://www.pvcbuildingproducts.co.uk/floplast-110mm-ring-seal-soil-
adjustable-bend-0-90-double-socket-1232-p.asp


[1] These terminate in a 110 male so expect to pushfit into the 110 socket
or coupler. The advantage is that you have a nice large bore all the way - I
have one and my loo *has never* blocked.

Failing that, one of these looks better than what you have:

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p71620

because the bendy bit is being used to a minumum and you have a smooth 90
degree bend to start with.

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/

If you are reading this from a web interface eg DIY Banter,
DIY Forum or Google Groups, please be aware this is NOT a forum, and
you are merely using a web portal to a USENET group. Many people block
posters coming from web portals due to perceived SPAM or inaneness.
For a better method of access, please see:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

"It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent
moral busybodies."

[Brian Gaff]

Yes, from what i read here it sounds like the arrangement at a place I
stayed at once. the problem after a while is that the toilet starts to
smell badly presumably due to the poor fall and the slight uphil bit. In the
case I encountered it also turned at a right nagle which made it worse.

Brian

--
From the Bed of Brian Gaff.
The email is valid as bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user.
"Roger Mills" <watt....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:akohp4...@mid.individual.net...

[Jim K]

what's the height drop along the length of brown 110mm waste? and how
long is the brown 110mm bit of pipe?

Jim K

[Dave Liquorice]

On Fri, 4 Jan 2013 09:43:32 -0800 (PST), Tom Pickles wrote:

> I'd rather not use a plinth as it may look a bit naff ...

Not to mention raising the loo seat an inch. Might not sound a lot but if
you have short legs... We have a variety of loos here some are higher
than others, I don't like the high ones.

You do seem to have plenty of fall on the pipe as installed but that
could be camera angles and that funny runing back to the wall. TBH if
there is any fall if you connect the loo directly to the pipe with a
smooth bend it would be better that than rough flexy and up hill. Pipes
block because stuff gets snagged and builds up or stuff can settle out
and cause a place for stuff to snag...

--
Cheers
Dave.

[Tom Pickles]

The height drop is about 15mm along the length which is 750mm.

[Fredxx]

On 04/01/2013 18:07, Tom Pickles wrote:
> On Friday, January 4, 2013 5:54:17 PM UTC, Tim Watts wrote:
>> Re the drip - it is often a good idea to apply liberal amounts of plumbers
>>
>> grease (a very heavy silicone grease I think) to pan joints to get a good
>>
>> seal if the porelain is not perfectly smooth - or a smear of silicone rubber
>>
>> which will be a lubricant until it sets.
>
> I had to use the flexi connector unfortunately as the soil pipe leans in towards the wall as it get's nearer to the toilet due to the stack's position:
>

Maybe, I would have thought you have had enough give between connectors?

Also the pan looks suspiciously close to the wall!

[Jim K]

if you just changed the angle of the brown bit to 1 in 100 (which will
be OK) you could 1/2 that incline and get the bog end of the pipe down
by 7.5mm for starters ... any play in the grey bit? &/or the stack
connection?

Jim K

[Roger Mills]

In that case, it sounds as if the bog outlet is lower than the stack
entry point, so you'll *have* to raise the bog in order to get some
fall. To make a job of it, you need to:
* raise the bog
* use an adjustable joint near the stack to enable you to run the brown
pipe parallel to the wall *and* control its fall
* use a rigid pan elbow rather than that horrible convoluted thing

Make the plinth out of any suitable rigid material which you can stand
the bog on, draw round it, and then cut it to size with a jigsaw. White
plastic would be good, but if you use wood, sand the edge smooth and
paint it white.

[harry]

On Jan 4, 4:58 pm, Tom Pickles <jon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> As part of my bathroom refit, I've swapped the setup from
>
> wall > bath > toilet > basin > wall
>
> to
>
> wall > bath > basin > toilet > wall
>
> Due to the way the soil pipe connects to the stack, I've had to use a flexi-toilet connector. The total horizontal run of soil pipe is 1.5m from stack to toilet.
>
> I'm somewhat anxious about the height of the toilet outlet being ever-so slightly lower than the soil pipe where it joins. It's really just on the nose by the look of it, but there is a slight water drip from the toilet connector and I'm concerned that this setup may cause issues in the future with flushing/blockages/leaks.
>
> Is this going to be OK, or is there anything I can do to fix it? Lowering the stack is not an option as it's all boxed in and I've fixed, tiled siliconed the bath in place.
>

I think you might have a problem there.
You could raise the toilet by 20mm or so with a bit of plywood under
it.
By the time you have fitted the floor finish it will disappear.

Or even take the toilet out fit (say )floor tiles and put the toilet
on top of them. Problem solved.

[Tim+]

Roger Mills <watt....@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 04/01/2013 20:44, Tom Pickles wrote:
>> On Friday, January 4, 2013 7:12:26 PM UTC, Jim K wrote:
>
>>> what's the height drop along the length of brown 110mm waste? and how
>>>
>>> long is the brown 110mm bit of pipe?
>>
>> The height drop is about 15mm along the length which is 750mm.
>
> In that case, it sounds as if the bog outlet is lower than the stack
> entry point, so you'll *have* to raise the bog in order to get some fall.
> To make a job of it, you need to:
> * raise the bog
> * use an adjustable joint near the stack to enable you to run the brown
> pipe parallel to the wall *and* control its fall
> * use a rigid pan elbow rather than that horrible convoluted thing
>
> Make the plinth out of any suitable rigid material which you can stand
> the bog on, draw round it, and then cut it to size with a jigsaw. White
> plastic would be good, but if you use wood, sand the edge smooth and paint it white.

Might look better (and be more comfortable to use) if you were to raise the
whole floor area around the loo so that the floor to seat height isn't
altered.

Tim

[andrew]

On Friday, January 4, 2013 4:58:35 PM UTC, Tom Pickles wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
>
> As part of my bathroom refit, I've swapped the setup from
>
>
>
> wall > bath > toilet > basin > wall
>
>
>
> to
>
>
>
> wall > bath > basin > toilet > wall
>
>
>
> Due to the way the soil pipe connects to the stack, I've had to use a flexi-toilet connector. The total horizontal run of soil pipe is 1.5m from stack to toilet.
>
>
>
> I'm somewhat anxious about the height of the toilet outlet being ever-so slightly lower than the soil pipe where it joins. It's really just on the nose by the look of it, but there is a slight water drip from the toilet connector and I'm concerned that this setup may cause issues in the future with flushing/blockages/leaks.

It would be better to immediately raise the outlet of the toilet using a rigid connector like http://www.mcalpineplumbing.com/wc-connectors/rigid-wc-connectors/4-110mm-plain-end-outlet-40mm-offset-rigid-wc-connector.html

By twisting it round you can raise the outlet from 0 to 40mm as needed. There is also an adjustable length 20mm offset which would be better if the offset is 20mm or less.

You could then use an ordinary soil pipe bend, or if necessary a slightly adjustable bend like http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p86916

That way everything would drain properly with no standing water. The water level in the pan would be higher than normal, but it will be with the current arrangement.

A

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

On Fri, 4 Jan 2013 08:58:35 -0800 (PST), Tom Pickles
<jon...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Photo's below:
>
>http://i.imgur.com/QqWpK.jpg

Yes; you'll get a build-up of clinkers and turds every so often and
the only way to avoid that is pour a gallon of Barrettine down there
with a match.

[Jim K]

The fall is away from the bog....,.

Jim K

[Rick Hughes]

You need flexy connector to have a fall .... even if only 1%
otherwise it will leak .... don't be tempted to seal with silicon
.... bodge waiting to fail.

See if you can lower the pipe run ... if not put a 1" piece of ply under
pan (cut neat to match profile)

[Tom Pickles]

On Friday, January 4, 2013 4:58:35 PM UTC, Tom Pickles wrote:

Everyone, thanks very much for your replies and advice. I've been out to wickes and got an adjustable 110mm soil connector, which has sorted out the angle of the soil pipe which has in turn also allowed me to bin off the flexible waste connector and replace it with a proper 90deg soil connector. It all goes together nicely except for the slight rise remaining in the soil connector from the toilet to the soil (there's still fall along the length of the soil pipe). I've got some 20mm ply in the garage, so I'm going to make a plinth with the ply and mount the bog on it over the next few days.

Hopefully all of the above will give me a reliable installation. I'll update here when finished.

Thanks again!