Petrol stations

144 views
Skip to first unread message

ARW

unread,
Sep 25, 2021, 1:26:34 PMSep 25
to
Have they all run out of fuel?

--
Adam

Jack Harry Teesdale

unread,
Sep 25, 2021, 1:27:56 PMSep 25
to
On 25/09/2021 18:26, ARW wrote:
> Have they all run out of fuel?
>

Probably, panic buying at it's most stupid.

Andy Burns

unread,
Sep 25, 2021, 2:23:33 PMSep 25
to
ARW wrote:

> Have they all run out of fuel?

I went past a Tesco early this morning where traffic was queueing so far back
from the petrol station, that nobody could get into the car park, also the slow
lanes of the outer ring road turned into queues for a pair of petrol stations,
but I went past at least one where there were only a couple of cars ...

I've got 3/4 tank plus a jerry can in the garage.

GB

unread,
Sep 25, 2021, 2:35:07 PMSep 25
to
On 25/09/2021 18:26, ARW wrote:
> Have they all run out of fuel?
>


Have you seen that the BBC sent a reporter named Phil McCann to report
on the crisis? :)


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/sep/25/whats-in-a-name-phil-mccann-lightens-the-nations-mood

Tim Lamb

unread,
Sep 25, 2021, 2:35:34 PMSep 25
to
In message <sinm48$oae$1...@dont-email.me>, ARW
<adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> writes
>Have they all run out of fuel?

I've got some red diesel but you'll have to fetch it:-)
>

--
Tim Lamb

nightjar

unread,
Sep 25, 2021, 2:56:59 PMSep 25
to
On 25/09/2021 18:26, ARW wrote:
> Have they all run out of fuel?
>
One petrol station reported selling three time the normal daily amount
yesterday. Even with normal fuel deliveries, that would be a problem.
However, soon everybody will have full tanks and the queues should
disappear. I have a bit more than half a tank, which should give me
about 300 miles range, so I can afford to wait for the panic buying to
subside. For me, the main problem is the queuing traffic blocking roads
and supermarket entrances.

--
Colin Bignell

Tim+

unread,
Sep 25, 2021, 3:23:31 PMSep 25
to
Well I topped my car up this morning and plan to top it up again tonight.
Luckily I have a fuel station at home. ;-)

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

gareth evans

unread,
Sep 25, 2021, 3:26:09 PMSep 25
to
On 25/09/2021 18:26, ARW wrote:
> Have they all run out of fuel?
>

No problems with supply by Texaco

ARW

unread,
Sep 25, 2021, 3:53:49 PMSep 25
to

The Natural Philosopher

unread,
Sep 25, 2021, 4:09:47 PMSep 25
to
They did it so they can blame it all on Brexit

--
"Corbyn talks about equality, justice, opportunity, health care, peace,
community, compassion, investment, security, housing...."
"What kind of person is not interested in those things?"

"Jeremy Corbyn?"

newshound

unread,
Sep 25, 2021, 4:30:27 PMSep 25
to
On 25/09/2021 18:26, ARW wrote:
> Have they all run out of fuel?
>
Lifted from a Roland Perry post:

One of the better cartoons of the day is a Border Force vessel
approaching a RIB full of asylum seekers in the channel, and asking
"Can any of you drive a HGV?"

Steve Walker

unread,
Sep 25, 2021, 4:34:23 PMSep 25
to
I was getting low and I have to drive my son to university tomorrow,
then I need enough fuel for getting to and from work and taking my
disabled wife to and from hospital and doctors appointments. I avoided
the supermarket stations, where huge numbers have been queueing, but
found that all the normal stations (that cost a few pence a litre more),
were busier than usual, but there were no queues beyond the forecourt
entrance. I have just come in a few minutes ago and passed another
garage on the way - there was a single vehicle in there.


nightjar

unread,
Sep 25, 2021, 6:19:01 PMSep 25
to
However, can you do 600 miles on one fill up and completely refill in a
couple of minutes?

--
Colin Bignell

Tim+

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 2:41:28 AMSep 26
to
That old canard. Seriously, how often do you *need* to do that? When did
you last fill up your car whilst you slept?

My 16,000 miles of motoring last year count me £220 in fuel. I’m prepared
to put up reduced range and a slower refuelling rate for that sort of
saving.

The Natural Philosopher

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 3:42:25 AMSep 26
to
What offends me is how much your 16000 miles of motoring cost *me*.

--
“Some people like to travel by train because it combines the slowness of
a car with the cramped public exposure of 
an airplane.”

Dennis Miller

Jim GM4DHJ ...

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 4:10:12 AMSep 26
to
On 25/09/2021 18:27, Jack Harry Teesdale wrote:
yip filled up my three cars......

Jim GM4DHJ ...

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 4:13:00 AMSep 26
to
On 25/09/2021 18:26, ARW wrote:
> Have they all run out of fuel?
>
love watching the world on its downwards spiral....

alan_m

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 4:32:37 AMSep 26
to
On 26/09/2021 08:42, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

>
> What offends me is how much your 16000 miles of motoring cost *me*.
>

For once I heard a balanced discussion about renewables on the radio the
other day and one of the items mentioned was the extra cost added to all
our bills for things like FIT payments, the social care tax such as the
warm house discounts and the cost of all those power saving "freebies"
we have been given over the years. I'm sure some people think this all
comes from the Government and is not a hidden cost on our bills. The
figures quoted were approx £100 per household/annum.

I wonder if there would be so much popular support for some of the
flawed green policies if these costs were itemised on our bills?

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

Richard

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 4:36:07 AMSep 26
to
On 25/09/2021 21:09, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 25/09/2021 18:27, Jack Harry Teesdale wrote:
>> On 25/09/2021 18:26, ARW wrote:
>>> Have they all run out of fuel?
>>>
>>
>> Probably, panic buying at it's most stupid.
> They did it so they can blame it all on Brexit

Who is this "they"?
FFS, it is idiots going out panic buying. It is they who need sense
beaten into them.

ARW

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 4:38:36 AMSep 26
to
I got the new van on the 6th of September.

3888 miles later at an average of 40 MPH and 30.1 MPG I have not done a
600 mile round trip.

However I would have had to rely on public charging for 1000 of those
miles if it was EV as I was not at home.

Adam

Robin

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 5:01:02 AMSep 26
to
On 26/09/2021 09:32, alan_m wrote:
> On 26/09/2021 08:42, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>>
>> What offends me is how much your 16000 miles of motoring cost *me*.
>>
>
> For once I heard a balanced discussion about renewables on the radio the
> other day and one of the items mentioned was the extra cost added to all
> our bills for things like FIT payments, the social care tax such as the
> warm house discounts and the cost of all those power saving "freebies"
> we have been given over the years. I'm sure some people think this all
> comes from the Government and is not a hidden cost on our bills. The
> figures quoted were approx £100 per household/annum.

seems low given policy costs for social and environmental schemes now
account for around £170 of the £1,150 total in Ofgem's price cap for a
"typical" household

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

Martin Brown

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 5:02:41 AMSep 26
to
On 25/09/2021 18:26, ARW wrote:
> Have they all run out of fuel?
>
Not quite but it is getting close.

Supermarkets seem to have done or they have made the tactical decision
to close them so that customers can get into their carpark. The gridlock
caused around their petrol station had blocked entry to their carpark!

Selling petrol is a loss leader for them so getting more customers into
the main shop is far more important than selling them fuel.

Gridlocked roads around roadside petrol stations was common yesterday.

Even expensive ones that never have any customers were queued back with
more than a dozen cars waiting on the road outside.

Another wonderful "benefit" of Brexit. Enjoy!

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Roland Perry

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 5:17:06 AMSep 26
to
In message
<1880086145.654330975.617...@news.individual.net>,
at 06:41:25 on Sun, 26 Sep 2021, Tim+ <tim.d...@gmail.com> remarked:
>nightjar <c...@bignell.me.uk> wrote:
>> On 25/09/2021 20:23, Tim+ wrote:
>>> nightjar <c...@bignell.me.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 25/09/2021 18:26, ARW wrote:
>>>>> Have they all run out of fuel?
>>>>>
>>>> One petrol station reported selling three time the normal daily amount
>>>> yesterday. Even with normal fuel deliveries, that would be a problem.
>>>> However, soon everybody will have full tanks and the queues should
>>>> disappear. I have a bit more than half a tank, which should give me
>>>> about 300 miles range, so I can afford to wait for the panic buying to
>>>> subside. For me, the main problem is the queuing traffic blocking roads
>>>> and supermarket entrances.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Well I topped my car up this morning and plan to top it up again tonight.
>>> Luckily I have a fuel station at home. ;-)
>>>
>> However, can you do 600 miles on one fill up and completely refill in a
>> couple of minutes?
>
>That old canard. Seriously, how often do you *need* to do that? When did
>you last fill up your car whilst you slept?
>
>My 16,000 miles of motoring last year count me £220 in fuel. I’m prepared
>to put up reduced range and a slower refuelling rate for that sort of
>saving.

That's an implausibly low 1.4p/mile. Where are you buying your
electricity from? Consumption is generally reckoned to be 3.5miles/kWH,
and domestic tariff is around 18p at the moment (until your supplier
goes bust, of course).

ps With wholesale prices soaring, I wonder how many of the 30p/kWH
public chargers will be operating at a loss, soon?
--
Roland Perry

nightjar

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 5:20:10 AMSep 26
to
On 26/09/2021 07:41, Tim+ wrote:
> nightjar <c...@bignell.me.uk> wrote:
>> On 25/09/2021 20:23, Tim+ wrote:
>>> nightjar <c...@bignell.me.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 25/09/2021 18:26, ARW wrote:
>>>>> Have they all run out of fuel?
>>>>>
>>>> One petrol station reported selling three time the normal daily amount
>>>> yesterday. Even with normal fuel deliveries, that would be a problem.
>>>> However, soon everybody will have full tanks and the queues should
>>>> disappear. I have a bit more than half a tank, which should give me
>>>> about 300 miles range, so I can afford to wait for the panic buying to
>>>> subside. For me, the main problem is the queuing traffic blocking roads
>>>> and supermarket entrances.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Well I topped my car up this morning and plan to top it up again tonight.
>>> Luckily I have a fuel station at home. ;-)
>>>
>>> Tim
>>
>> However, can you do 600 miles on one fill up and completely refill in a
>> couple of minutes?
>>
>
> That old canard. Seriously, how often do you *need* to do that?

Pre-Covid, several times a year. Long distance foreign travel is the
very reason I had the extra large 80 litre tank fitted when I bought my
car. Now the range has the additional advantage that I can drive from
England to Germany without having to stop in any other country, which
means, for the purposes of Covid travel reporting, I haven't visited them.

> When did
> you last fill up your car whilst you slept?

I don't need to, it only takes me a couple of minutes. I also don't have
to worry whether there will be anywhere I can refill at my overnight stops.

> My 16,000 miles of motoring last year count me £220 in fuel. I’m prepared
> to put up reduced range and a slower refuelling rate for that sort of
> saving.

My idea of economising on fuel was trading in a 5 litre V8 4x4 that did
19 mpg for a 2 litre diesel estate that does about twice that.

The point is, electric cars may well suit a lot of people, but they
haven't yet made one that does what I want from a car.


--
Colin Bignell

Roland Perry

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 5:27:06 AMSep 26
to
In message <sipcvf$bav$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, at 10:02:37 on Sun, 26 Sep
2021, Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> remarked:
>On 25/09/2021 18:26, ARW wrote:

>> Have they all run out of fuel?
>>
>Not quite but it is getting close.

The situation is fluid around here, with Facebook chatter all day
yesterday about which filling stations just got a delivery.

We have two supermarkets, two BP stations (selling at way more) and one
independent (about halfway in between).

A quick trawl round this morning (I had other errands to run) reveals
that only petrol, and of the five at only one of the supermarkets, was
available.
--
Roland Perry

Spike

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 5:31:51 AMSep 26
to
On 26/09/2021 09:02, Martin Brown wrote:

> Supermarkets seem to have done or they have made the tactical decision
> to close them so that customers can get into their carpark. The gridlock
> caused around their petrol station had blocked entry to their carpark!

> Selling petrol is a loss leader for them so getting more customers into
> the main shop is far more important than selling them fuel.

> Gridlocked roads around roadside petrol stations was common yesterday.

> Even expensive ones that never have any customers were queued back with
> more than a dozen cars waiting on the road outside.

> Another wonderful "benefit" of Brexit. Enjoy!

What has Brexit got to do with the over-50s deciding not to return to
the workforce after the covid lock-downs? HGV and tanker drivers are
part of that cohort of early retirers, and according to the spokesman
for the German equivalent of the RHA speaking on the radio yesterday,
it's the same in Europe.


--
Spike

ARW

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 5:35:49 AMSep 26
to
Sorry 6th August.

Andy Burns

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 5:37:14 AMSep 26
to
Roland Perry wrote:

> Tim+ remarked:
>
>> My 16,000 miles of motoring last year count me £220 in fuel.
>
> That's an implausibly low 1.4p/mile. Where are you buying your electricity from?

Octopus I think ...

<https://octopus.energy/go>
<https://octopus.energy/agile>

> Consumption is generally reckoned to be 3.5miles/kWH, and domestic tariff is
> around 18p at the moment (until your supplier goes bust, of course).
>
> ps With wholesale prices soaring, I wonder how many of the 30p/kWH public
> chargers will be operating at a loss, soon?

Octopus's cheapest rate at any point today looks like 24p/kWh

<https://www.energy-stats.uk/octopus-agile>

They're been getting worse and worse value recently

<https://www.energy-stats.uk/octopus-agile-east-midlands>

Martin Brown

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 5:50:13 AMSep 26
to
On 26/09/2021 10:31, Jethro_uk wrote:
> On Sun, 26 Sep 2021 10:02:37 +0100, Martin Brown wrote:
>
>> Selling petrol is a loss leader for them so getting more customers into
>> the main shop is far more important than selling them fuel.
>
> Not sure how that equates with 10-15% empty shelves.

It isn't just fuel that they cannot get timely deliveries of.
All HGV drivers are in very short supply.

Gridlock around their petrol station on the way in was preventing anyone
from getting into their main carpark so I can well understand management
taking the tactical decision to "run out" of fuel early. I'm talking
here about a big out of town setup with parking for a few hundred cars.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

The Natural Philosopher

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 6:03:59 AMSep 26
to
C'mon. Have you not noticed that post Covid, there is simply not enough
fear in hoi polloi, and climate panic is simply boring peoples pants off
so lets create some shortages by saying there will be shortages, so
panic buy!

How many of those fuel stations we saw with massive queues, usually have
massive queues?

And of course any excuse for the vengeful bad losers on the remoan side
to put a boot into Brexit cannot be allowed to go unused can it?

Its all created to sell more fuel and to create a false crisis to claim
its all because of Brexit/Climate change etc etc.

I mean how naive *are* people, really?



--
“it should be clear by now to everyone that activist environmentalism
(or environmental activism) is becoming a general ideology about humans,
about their freedom, about the relationship between the individual and
the state, and about the manipulation of people under the guise of a
'noble' idea. It is not an honest pursuit of 'sustainable development,'
a matter of elementary environmental protection, or a search for
rational mechanisms designed to achieve a healthy environment. Yet
things do occur that make you shake your head and remind yourself that
you live neither in Joseph Stalin’s Communist era, nor in the Orwellian
utopia of 1984.”

Vaclav Klaus

Andy Burns

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 6:07:19 AMSep 26
to
Martin Brown wrote:

> Gridlock around their petrol station on the way in was preventing anyone from
> getting into their main carpark so I can well understand management taking the
> tactical decision to "run out" of fuel early. I'm talking here about a big out
> of town setup with parking for a few hundred cars.

And the tailbacks would probably prevent store and fuel deliveries getting
on-site too.

Andy Burns

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 6:09:26 AMSep 26
to
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> Its all created to sell more fuel

At higher prices, BP said they'd be preferentially supplying their motorway sites.

alan_m

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 6:11:31 AMSep 26
to
On 26/09/2021 10:02, Martin Brown wrote:

> Another wonderful "benefit" of Brexit. Enjoy!
>

Repeating this often doesn't make it true.

alan_m

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 6:13:57 AMSep 26
to
I managed to fill my bath with petrol so I should be OK for the next 6
months :)

Max Demian

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 6:21:16 AMSep 26
to
On 25/09/2021 18:27, Jack Harry Teesdale wrote:
> On 25/09/2021 18:26, ARW wrote:

>> Have they all run out of fuel?
>>
>
> Probably, panic buying at it's most stupid.

Panic buying is essential if you think other people are doing it.
"Sensible" means that you run out.

--
Max Demian

Jim GM4DHJ ...

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 6:28:54 AMSep 26
to
On 26/09/2021 11:13, alan_m wrote:
> On 26/09/2021 09:10, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
>> On 25/09/2021 18:27, Jack Harry Teesdale wrote:
>>> On 25/09/2021 18:26, ARW wrote:
>>>> Have they all run out of fuel?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Probably, panic buying at it's most stupid.
>> yip filled up my three cars......
>
> I managed to fill my bath with petrol so I should be OK for the next 6
> months :)
>
good man

Steve Walker

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 6:29:20 AMSep 26
to
There was a figure quoted for the total cost of the renewables and
social levies (in an article about how much money has been added to fuel
costs rather than appearing as government spending). Divided by the
number of households in the UK, that came to just under £300 per household.

Jim GM4DHJ ...

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 6:36:53 AMSep 26
to
I went out the night before last and filled the three cars when LBC
started running the scare story....Scottish punters hadn't
heard....can't wait to see them squealing...tee hee...if you are not
fast you are last...and...the beating up seemed to be in the near of england


https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/shocking-fight-between-dads-sons-25072856

best avoiding that by getting in first

nightjar

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 7:02:23 AMSep 26
to
On 26/09/2021 11:13, alan_m wrote:
> On 26/09/2021 09:10, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
>> On 25/09/2021 18:27, Jack Harry Teesdale wrote:
>>> On 25/09/2021 18:26, ARW wrote:
>>>> Have they all run out of fuel?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Probably, panic buying at it's most stupid.
>> yip filled up my three cars......
>
> I managed to fill my bath with petrol so I should be OK for the next 6
> months :)
>

I thought baths were for keeping Pike in, at least that is what one of
my father's cousins did.

--
Colin Bignell

nightjar

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 7:06:29 AMSep 26
to
On 26/09/2021 10:31, Spike wrote:
That will be the quarter of the shortage that is due to people not
wanting to do the job. Another quarter is due to Brexit losses of EU
workers and the remaining half is the backlog of HGV testing.


--
Colin Bignell

Brian Gaff (Sofa)

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 7:10:39 AMSep 26
to
Well here in South London reports are that drivers were being restricted to
10 litres per car. So I guess the answer is yes, but not due to actual
shortages, due to panic buying by some people. Its toilet rolls all over
again.
The fact is they only have enough drivers and throughput to cope with
normal demand, so as soon as panic buying starts the whole supply chain
creaks.
I have also noticed that people are buying up things like microwave meals,
Soup and small generators as well. Not quite sure what this says about
people at the moment. Unfortunately those of us who are supposedly sensible
about things are forced to join the panic buying as we can't get our
supplies while its sitting in somebody elses house!

Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"ARW" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:sinm48$oae$1...@dont-email.me...
> Have they all run out of fuel?
>
> --
> Adam


Andy Burns

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 7:13:17 AMSep 26
to
Brian Gaff wrote:

> I have also noticed that people are buying up things like [...] and small generators

Buy a generator, then they can't get any fuel for it ...

The Natural Philosopher

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 7:23:26 AMSep 26
to
On 26/09/2021 10:57, Jethro_uk wrote:
> On Sun, 26 Sep 2021 10:50:10 +0100, Martin Brown wrote:
>
>> On 26/09/2021 10:31, Jethro_uk wrote:
>>> [quoted text muted]
>>
>> It isn't just fuel that they cannot get timely deliveries of.
>
> Exactly.
>
> So supermarkets - already working with wafer thin margins - are now
> running at 85% efficiency. Hardly sustainable.
>
> Personally I can't quite see the optics of a national supermarket going
> under working at the moment. It's interesting that Morrisons are wafting
> some smoke around their situation.
>
> If - as has been suggested - we are entering a new paradigm of retail -
> then I can see some big beasts going under quite soon. It's all very well
> to be told by 3 stores in a row (M&S, Next and John Lewis) to "order it
> online". But the moment I go online, I ain't going to ... M&S, Next or
> John Lewis.
>

Yes. but it is more than retail. People have discovered what is nice,
and what is not, about staying at home and not commuting. Employers have
realised that saving office space and staff salaries spent on commuting
and eating out at work for lunch, is more productive.
Retail has as a result been smashed. So have fuel company profits. But a
nice panic buy will restore those.
We have also seen the downsides of Globalism and free movement, - mass
migration, of people we don't want and diseases we didn't want either.
And the downsides of just in time, in that with no buffer storage of
parts, gas or electricity, the changes of temporary crises in the supply
chain are manifold..

Really it is the end of retail as we know it. Unpleasant snowflake turds
will simply have to find something more useful to do than standing in a
shop all day lying to customers.

There is no point maintaining a high street presence when an online
presence gives a better customer experience at lower cost.

The debate here is about whether or not the deficiencies of the online
experience vis-a-vis the high street shop can be addressed.

and it is being addressed - the 'buy 5 send back 4' approach is
tolerated by the vendor, because they have to.

Any costs are reflected back into the price you pay, but if it is still
less than the retail high street price, so what?

Also, I think we may see a transition to a work less, earn less, buy
less, travel less, enjoy life more, lifestyle.

The globalists are shitting their pants because they are geared for
rising consumer consumption as a means to keep the plebs busy.
Governments are shitting themselves because they are geared for a rising
population and salary bank to raid to fund pensions, public sector
makeworks, and the NHS.

I'd invest in popcorn futures, if I were you..


--
“Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere,
diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.”
― Groucho Marx

The Natural Philosopher

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 7:26:59 AMSep 26
to
Of course.
Sound business practice.

"What me, start a panic? I am sure that wasn't what we meant to do, honest"*

*Now known as 'The Blair Defence' It doesn't matter what you do, what
matters is what you *meant* to do. Gunning down fat bastards in
supermarket car parks is allowable if it is 'to prevent climate change'...


--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

The Natural Philosopher

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 7:34:10 AMSep 26
to
That's only the *direct* costs
Indirect* costs are similar, so double that figure

*- grid upgrades to accommodate peak renewable flows from North to South
- cost of maintaining backup power stations who cannot recoup overheads
for reduced hours operation except by increasing energy prices.
- replacement of fuel efficient low cost CCGT by cheaper but fuel
hungry OCGT, because that is profitable as peaking power plant into a
high energy price market
- cost of grid batteries to do frequency stabilisation in the face of
the loss of rotating turbine mass.


In short renewable energy is an expensive turd. Whose problems and costs
are borne by everyone but renewable energy operators.

--
"Nature does not give up the winter because people dislike the cold."

― Confucius

ARW

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 7:36:15 AMSep 26
to
Coal.

--

Adam

The Natural Philosopher

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 7:46:42 AMSep 26
to
Absolutely coal

And water when the water board were digging up the road again

ARW

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 7:53:57 AMSep 26
to
On 25/09/2021 19:56, nightjar wrote:
> On 25/09/2021 18:26, ARW wrote:
>> Have they all run out of fuel?
>>
> One petrol station reported selling three time the normal daily amount
> yesterday. Even with normal fuel deliveries, that would be a problem.
> However, soon everybody will have full tanks and the queues should
> disappear. I have a bit more than half a tank, which should give me
> about 300 miles range, so I can afford to wait for the panic buying to
> subside. For me, the main problem is the queuing traffic blocking roads
> and supermarket entrances.
>
St Albans Road in Watford has big queues to the petrol stations.


--

Adam

alan_m

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 7:55:24 AMSep 26
to
It all depends how long you can wait :)

I normally go from 1/4 tank to full tank and I'm down a 1/4 tank now but
with all the panic buying and supplies still turning up I'm sure some
time next week some sanity will return, when I will fill up again.

Roland Perry

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 7:57:14 AMSep 26
to
In message <sipmiv$oot$2...@dont-email.me>, at 12:46:39 on Sun, 26 Sep
2021, The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> remarked:

>>>> I managed to fill my bath with petrol so I should be OK for the
>>>>next 6 months :)
>>>
>>> I thought baths were for keeping Pike in, at least that is what one
>>>of my father's cousins did.
>>>
>> Coal.
>
>Absolutely coal
>
>And water when the water board were digging up the road again

Remind me, did the USA outlaw waterboarding?
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 7:57:14 AMSep 26
to
In message <irata8...@mid.individual.net>, at 10:37:10 on Sun, 26
Sep 2021, Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk> remarked:
>Roland Perry wrote:
>
>> Tim+ remarked:
>>
>>> My 16,000 miles of motoring last year count me £220 in fuel.
>> That's an implausibly low 1.4p/mile. Where are you buying your
>>electricity from?
>
>Octopus I think ...
>
><https://octopus.energy/go>
><https://octopus.energy/agile>

Ah, the White Meter con trick again. Where I am:

Unit rate (04:30 - 00:30):
24.25p/ kWh

Unit rate (00:30 - 04:30):
5.00p/ kWh

So the cheap electricity at night is subsidised from paying well over
the [historical] odds during the day.

I'm consuming about 3500 kWH [probably more, but let's not over-egg it]
at 17p (big-5 fixed tariff from perhaps two years ago). So switching to
Octopus [if it was even possible, let alone them staying in business]
would be costing me 7p more per unit = £250, so the electric car is
actually increasing my bill by more than double the amount the PP
claimed.

+VAT (it's not clear if the £220 includes VAT).

>> Consumption is generally reckoned to be 3.5miles/kWH, and domestic
>>tariff is around 18p at the moment (until your supplier goes bust, of
>>course).
>> ps With wholesale prices soaring, I wonder how many of the 30p/kWH
>>public chargers will be operating at a loss, soon?
>
>Octopus's cheapest rate at any point today looks like 24p/kWh
>
><https://www.energy-stats.uk/octopus-agile>
>
>They're been getting worse and worse value recently
>
><https://www.energy-stats.uk/octopus-agile-east-midlands>

Eek. Average this month ~32p. That's virtually double 17p. Maybe they
*will* be staying in business after all!
--
Roland Perry

ARW

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 7:58:31 AMSep 26
to
On 26/09/2021 12:46, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 26/09/2021 12:36, ARW wrote:
>> On 26/09/2021 12:02, nightjar wrote:
>>> On 26/09/2021 11:13, alan_m wrote:
>>>> On 26/09/2021 09:10, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
>>>>> On 25/09/2021 18:27, Jack Harry Teesdale wrote:
>>>>>> On 25/09/2021 18:26, ARW wrote:
>>>>>>> Have they all run out of fuel?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Probably, panic buying at it's most stupid.
>>>>> yip filled up my three cars......
>>>>
>>>> I managed to fill my bath with petrol so I should be OK for the next
>>>> 6 months :)
>>>>
>>>
>>> I thought baths were for keeping Pike in, at least that is what one
>>> of my father's cousins did.
>>>
>>
>> Coal.
>
> Absolutely coal
>
> And water when the water board were digging up the road again
>
>

The week after the road had been resurfaced?

They have spotters for such things.

--

Adam




The Natural Philosopher

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 8:01:25 AMSep 26
to
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1dvAxA9ib0


--
“Some people like to travel by train because it combines the slowness of
a car with the cramped public exposure of 
an airplane.”

Dennis Miller

Andy Bennet

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 8:12:23 AMSep 26
to
On 25/09/2021 18:26, ARW wrote:
> Have they all run out of fuel?
>

Dunno, don't care.

Got home last night with 10% left, plugged in and this morning she's
full - 330 miles of carefree motoring.

ARW

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 8:18:28 AMSep 26
to
Not with the AC or heater running.

Real mileage?

--

Adam


Bob Eager

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 8:23:51 AMSep 26
to
Don't tell him Pike!

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

Pamela

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 8:35:40 AMSep 26
to
On 10:31 26 Sep 2021, Spike said:
> On 26/09/2021 09:02, Martin Brown wrote:
>>
>> Supermarkets seem to have done or they have made the tactical
>> decision to close them so that customers can get into their
>> carpark. The gridlock caused around their petrol station had
>> blocked entry to their carpark!
>
>> Selling petrol is a loss leader for them so getting more customers
>> into the main shop is far more important than selling them fuel.
>
>> Gridlocked roads around roadside petrol stations was common
>> yesterday.
>
>> Even expensive ones that never have any customers were queued back
>> with more than a dozen cars waiting on the road outside.
>
>> Another wonderful "benefit" of Brexit. Enjoy!
>
> What has Brexit got to do with the over-50s deciding not to return
> to the workforce after the covid lock-downs? HGV and tanker drivers
> are part of that cohort of early retirers, and according to the
> spokesman for the German equivalent of the RHA speaking on the radio
> yesterday, it's the same in Europe.

If Brexit (allegedly) wasn't the cause of the driver shortage .... then
reversing Brexit and issuing temporary visas to EU drivers is the
solution.

Despite their own driver shortage, no other country in Europe has
problems with deliveries of petrol, food, vaccines, etc.

Seems the EU's "free movement of labour" is working. I wish I could say
the same about Brexit. What a mess.

Pamela

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 8:40:51 AMSep 26
to
Nowhere else in Europe do they have the delivery problems we do,
despite their own modest driver shortages. Seems our shortage is
unusually large thanks to Boris's Brexit.

PS: Have you noticed any advantage from Brexit yet? The fake claim
that Brexit permitted our vaccine rollout (it didn't) is laid to rest
as most large European countries are now powering ahead of us with a
larger proportion of people vaccinated than we do.

Andy Bennet

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 9:08:07 AMSep 26
to
Real mileage 330 in summer with AC on, 21C cabin temp. VW ID3 Tour
77kWh(82kWh gross) battery. 65mph on motorway and no fast getaways -
otherwise less. YMMV.

R Souls

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 9:19:33 AMSep 26
to
On 26 Sep 2021 13:11:21 GMT, Tim Streater <timst...@greenbee.net>
wrote:

>On 26 Sep 2021 at 13:35:32 BST, Pamela <pamela.priv...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>> If Brexit (allegedly) wasn't the cause of the driver shortage .... then
>> reversing Brexit and issuing temporary visas to EU drivers is the
>> solution.
>
>It was always going to be possible to issue work visas for specific jobs such
>as fruit picking. I already described why Brits won't (can't) do fruit picking
>on a regular basis, at least twice, once of which was before there was even
>the prospect of a vote.
>
>The question really is why the gumment has been so slow to do this.

Could it be that the government is composed of inept, one-trick-pony
brexiters?

Andy Bennet

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 9:21:57 AMSep 26
to
On 26/09/2021 14:14, Tim Streater wrote:
> On 26 Sep 2021 at 14:08:05 BST, Andy Bennet <ab...@benj.com> wrote:
>
>> On 26/09/2021 13:18, ARW wrote:
>>> On 26/09/2021 13:11, Andy Bennet wrote:
>>>> On 25/09/2021 18:26, ARW wrote:
>>>>> Have they all run out of fuel?
>>>>
>>>> Dunno, don't care.
>>>>
>>>> Got home last night with 10% left, plugged in and this morning she's
>>>> full - 330 miles of carefree motoring.
>>>
>>>
>>> Not with the AC or heater running.
>>>
>>> Real mileage?
>>
>> Real mileage 330 in summer with AC on, 21C cabin temp. VW ID3 Tour
>> 77kWh(82kWh gross) battery. 65mph on motorway and no fast getaways -
>> otherwise less. YMMV.
>
> What did you pay for this paragon of a motor car?
>


£37300 new.

Current value according to motorway £36200.

Bob Eager

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 9:24:08 AMSep 26
to
On Sun, 26 Sep 2021 13:35:32 +0100, Pamela wrote:

> If Brexit (allegedly) wasn't the cause of the driver shortage .... then
> reversing Brexit and issuing temporary visas to EU drivers is the
> solution.
>
> Despite their own driver shortage, no other country in Europe has
> problems with deliveries of petrol, food, vaccines, etc.

On one hand the government says the shortage is EU wide.

On the other hand, they're offering EU drivers visas to come here (with
all the attendant hassle).

Completely contradictory. But of course they lie all the time.

ARW

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 9:39:09 AMSep 26
to
So it's you that is causing the hold ups on the motorways as you slowly
overtake the HGVs?

65mph my arse.

--

Adam


The Natural Philosopher

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 9:39:55 AMSep 26
to
On 26/09/2021 13:18, ARW wrote:
Best I've ever seen on online tests is around 240

I've got 440 miles of diesel in my tank


> --
>
> Adam
>
>


--
There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale
returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact.

Mark Twain

The Natural Philosopher

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 9:41:01 AMSep 26
to