Pro paint finish and dust / bits in paint

[sm_jamieson]

I now hate painting (especially gloss), due to "bits" that always appear in the paint. I would like to know in a professional gloss painted thing, say a white gloss door, how many "pimples" beyond a mirror finish should be expected.

The bits seem to be:
1. Dust from the air
2. "bits" in the undercoat that show up more in the gloss coat
3. Bits that were trapped in corners of mouldings that you though were gone
4. Bits from re-using a paintbrush
5. Bits possibly already in the paint.

Tips I have heard are:
1. Hoover the room first
2. Hoover the workpiece
3. Clean the workpiece with a tack cloth
4. Use a new brush (but apparenly pros use the same brush for years)
5. Close doors after painting and leave
6. Pick out any bits that you see as you paint with a rag
7. Sand each undercoat. This is the correct way to do it, but it ridiculously
time consuming, and a potential source of more dust.

Problems are:
1. The bits sometimes only appear in different light that the conditions during painting, so you only notice it when too late.
2. Once bits appear, they get on the workpiece / brush / paint and seem to multiply.
3. I don't know what finish I am aiming for (nothing is "perfect")

I fitted primed white bannisters recently and they have a lovely smooth finish, but should really be painted to cover joints, edges etc. I do not want to paint these as they will look worse. I do wonder how good it would be if I got someone in.

Any advice or experience on this issue would be very helpful.

Simon.

[dochol...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, October 29, 2013 11:26:32 AM UTC, sm_jamieson wrote:
> I now hate painting (especially gloss), due to "bits" that always appear in the paint. I would like to know in a professional gloss painted thing, say a white gloss door, how many "pimples" beyond a mirror finish should be expected.
>
>
>
> The bits seem to be:
> 1. Dust from the air
> 2. "bits" in the undercoat that show up more in the gloss coat
> 3. Bits that were trapped in corners of mouldings that you though were gone
> 4. Bits from re-using a paintbrush
> 5. Bits possibly already in the paint.
>
> Tips I have heard are:
>
> 1. Hoover the room first
> 2. Hoover the workpiece
> 3. Clean the workpiece with a tack cloth
> 4. Use a new brush (but apparenly pros use the same brush for years)

My experience is that new paintbrushes shed occasional bristles that were not properly attached. After a few cycles of use and cleaning this drops to a very low level - possibly in some cases it would rise at end of life because the glue is breaking down but mine have normally worn away before this.
You do need to clean the brushes carefully to avoid getting bits of dried paint coming out instead of the bristles...

> 5. Close doors after painting and leave
> 6. Pick out any bits that you see as you paint with a rag
> 7. Sand each undercoat. This is the correct way to do it, but it ridiculously
> time consuming, and a potential source of more dust.
>

I remember watching the prfessionals do the painting at my parents - I noticed that they always decanted the paint into a paint kettle before using it, and they would strain it through an old nylon stocking while doing so to remove any bits. They would also store the brushes in water when leaving them for the night, rather than cleaning them - the water kept the air away and stopped the paint drying.

[Tim+]

sm_jamieson <sm_ja...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Any advice or experience on this issue would be very helpful.
>

Get a man in, you know it makes sense. ;-)

Tim

[sm_jamieson]

On Tuesday, October 29, 2013 12:33:09 PM UTC, dochol...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 29, 2013 11:26:32 AM UTC, sm_jamieson wrote:
>
> > I now hate painting (especially gloss), due to "bits" that always appear in the paint. I would like to know in a professional gloss painted thing, say a white gloss door, how many "pimples" beyond a mirror finish should be expected.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > The bits seem to be:
>
> > 1. Dust from the air
>
> > 2. "bits" in the undercoat that show up more in the gloss coat
>
> > 3. Bits that were trapped in corners of mouldings that you though were gone
>
> > 4. Bits from re-using a paintbrush
>
> > 5. Bits possibly already in the paint.
>
> >
>
> > Tips I have heard are:
>
> >
>
> > 1. Hoover the room first
>
> > 2. Hoover the workpiece
>
> > 3. Clean the workpiece with a tack cloth
>
> > 4. Use a new brush (but apparenly pros use the same brush for years)
>
> My experience is that new paintbrushes shed occasional bristles that were not
> properly attached. After a few cycles of use and cleaning this drops to a very
> low level - possibly in some cases it would rise at end of life because the
> glue is breaking down but mine have normally worn away before this.

Picking out shed bristles is no problem - they are easily spotted. Its cleaning the brushes enough to remove all paint that will reappear as dried bits. The paint up near the handle is impossible to get out.

>
> You do need to clean the brushes carefully to avoid getting bits of dried paint coming out instead of the bristles...
>
> > 5. Close doors after painting and leave
>
> > 6. Pick out any bits that you see as you paint with a rag
>
> > 7. Sand each undercoat. This is the correct way to do it, but it ridiculously
>
> > time consuming, and a potential source of more dust.
>
> >
>
> I remember watching the prfessionals do the painting at my parents - I
> noticed that they always decanted the paint into a paint kettle before using
> it, and they would strain it through an old nylon stocking while doing so to
> remove any bits. They would also store the brushes in water when leaving them
> for the night, rather than cleaning them - the water kept the air away and
> stopped the paint drying.

I always decant, and in small amounts. The straining would be a right pain and get through a lot of stockings (thinks: father ted in lingerie department ...)

Storing in water would be useful for oil-based paints. You could probably "keep a brush going" with, say, white gloss for ages and never need to clean it properly, thus avoiding bristles and dry bits.

Simon.

[sm_jamieson]

Oh I just can't ... surely not ... oh go on then ... hangs head in shame.
I mean, painting is the most DIY'd thing there is out there.

Simon.

[Tim+]

Oh, anyone can slap a bit of paint on. Doing it *properly* is another
matter. I hate the stuff. ;-)

Tim

[harryagain]

"sm_jamieson" <sm_ja...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6615506e-a4ed-4c46...@googlegroups.com...

You need to stop buying cheap paint brushes which are the source of most of
your problems.
And thoroughly clean them, the other source. (Debris in the brush.)

[stuart noble]

Just remember the undercoat should account for 99% of the finish. That
can be toshed on any old how and is designed to be sanded. When it's as
smooth as a baby's bum, and has obliterated any trace of the substrate,
the topcoat/gloss is applied sparingly as if you're running out of paint.

[sm_jamieson]

On Tuesday, October 29, 2013 5:12:42 PM UTC, harry wrote:
>
> You need to stop buying cheap paint brushes which are the source of most of
>
> your problems.
>
> And thoroughly clean them, the other source. (Debris in the brush.)

Cheap brushes may leave brush marks and not hold much paint, but I don't think they contribute more to "bits" or shed more bristles than expensive brushes.
I think the problem is that it is almost impossible to fully clean a brush. You cannot remove all the slightly dried paint trapped in the top of the bristles near the handle.
And if you spin the brush the bristles end up splayed out for ever more.

Simon.

[Chris Holford]

In article <6615506e-a4ed-4c46...@googlegroups.com>,
sm_jamieson <sm_ja...@hotmail.com> writes

>I now hate painting (especially gloss), due to "bits" that always appear in the
>paint. I would like to know in a professional gloss painted thing, say a white
>gloss door, how many "pimples" beyond a mirror finish should be expected.
>
>The bits seem to be:
>1. Dust from the air
>2. "bits" in the undercoat that show up more in the gloss coat
>3. Bits that were trapped in corners of mouldings that you though were gone
>4. Bits from re-using a paintbrush
>5. Bits possibly already in the paint.

Snip I heard a talk once given by a chap who painted historic carriages.
Among other things he mentioned;

he bought Italian paintbrushes at 150 quid each and then used them to
creosote a rough fence. This 'broke in' the brushes and removed any
loose bristles

he worked in a closed room with damp newspaper on the floor. After
painting one small panel he would tip-toe out and close the door
slowly, then leave the paint to dry for a long time.

next, rub down the panel, remove all the dust, let the air settle and
then repeat painting the panel.

Repeat the process many times and then work on the next panel.

The job would take many weeks but gave a mirror finish.

Me, I use cheapo brushes from the pound shop and accept a less than
perfect result!
--
Chris Holford

[Bill Wright]

Chris Holford wrote:

> Me, I use cheapo brushes from the pound shop and accept a less than
> perfect result!

I like to paint things that can be laid flat. Then I can pour the paint
on and just use the brush to spread it around.

Bill

[Apellation Controlee]

On Tue, 29 Oct 2013 05:33:09 -0700 (PDT), dochol...@gmail.com
wrote:

>They would also store the brushes in water when leaving them for the night, rather than cleaning them - the water kept the air away and stopped the paint drying.

Wrapping in clingfilm or alu-foil achieves much the same, as well as
preserving shape.

[stuart noble]

Or a plastic bag

[meow...@care2.com]

On Tuesday, October 29, 2013 11:26:32 AM UTC, sm_jamieson wrote:

> I now hate painting (especially gloss), due to "bits" that always appear in the paint. I would like to know in a professional gloss painted thing, say a white gloss door, how many "pimples" beyond a mirror finish should be expected.
> The bits seem to be:
> 1. Dust from the air
> 2. "bits" in the undercoat that show up more in the gloss coat
> 3. Bits that were trapped in corners of mouldings that you though were gone
> 4. Bits from re-using a paintbrush
> 5. Bits possibly already in the paint.

> Tips I have heard are:
> 1. Hoover the room first
> 2. Hoover the workpiece
> 3. Clean the workpiece with a tack cloth
> 4. Use a new brush (but apparenly pros use the same brush for years)
> 5. Close doors after painting and leave
> 6. Pick out any bits that you see as you paint with a rag
> 7. Sand each undercoat. This is the correct way to do it, but it ridiculously
> time consuming, and a potential source of more dust.

Yes to all those except:
a used brush sheds less than a new one IME
a very light sanding, which is all thats required, is quick & easy

I also like to fill any little dings & slice off any sticking out bits with a scraper before painting, it makes the whole thing look much better.

> Problems are:
> 1. The bits sometimes only appear in different light that the conditions during painting, so you only notice it when too late.

You do need good light when painting, standard household lighting is nowhere near enough. More like a 100w bulb 12" from the surface.

> 2. Once bits appear, they get on the workpiece / brush / paint and seem to multiply.
> 3. I don't know what finish I am aiming for (nothing is "perfect")
> I fitted primed white bannisters recently and they have a lovely smooth finish, but should really be painted to cover joints, edges etc. I do not want to paint these as they will look worse. I do wonder how good it would be if I got someone in.
> Any advice or experience on this issue would be very helpful.
> Simon.

If you really need the best finish, hoover everywhere thoroughly, put down damp newspaper or spray the floor, use a tack cloth, and use spray paint. Don't stay in the room once sprayed, as people are the source of a lot of the bits. And always sand lightly between coats, unless perfection is already achieved.


NT

[sm_jamieson]

The disadvantage of things laid flat is that there is a greater surface area to airborne dust, assuming air currents are mostly vertical.
Simon.

[sm_jamieson]

I would also be useful to know how to get all the dust off a brush once you get some on it, since once it appears, it seems to get spread around.
Simon.