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Ice forming in fridge

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Bert Coules

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Sep 2, 2013, 8:51:41 AM9/2/13
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I was surprised to find this morning that a sheet of ice has formed on the
bottom of the inside of my fridge, underneath where one of the salad trays
sits. I don't know how long it's been there.

The fridge setting is at 3 (of a range of 1 to 5) and hasn't been changed
all summer. Once in the past, the control was accidentally turned to the
highest setting and this was only discovered when liquids stored in the
fridge began to freeze, but that hasn't happened since that one occasion:
despite the presence of the ice, milk, fruit juice and so on are still
liquid.

The fridge is the top half of a Beko fridge-freezer and the freezer is
working perfectly. Should I be concerned about this? Does it indicate
that something's wrong somewhere? Many thanks.

Andrew Gabriel

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Sep 2, 2013, 9:10:21 AM9/2/13
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In article <K5GdnSFcfpNAFLnP...@brightview.co.uk>,
The cold panel (usually the rear panel) will have a condensate collection
channel along the bottom of it, with a drain hole so the water can run out
to the back (where it drains into a tray on top of the hot compressor and
evaporates).

The problem is either that the drain hole has got blocked so the channel
overflows into the bottom of the fridge, or that something stored in the
fridge is leaning against the cold panel and redirecting the condensate
away from the drain channel.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Bert Coules

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Sep 2, 2013, 9:18:18 AM9/2/13
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Andrew Gabriel wrote:

> The problem is either that the drain hole has got blocked so the channel
> overflows into the bottom of the fridge, or that something stored in the
> fridge is leaning against the cold panel and redirecting the condensate
> away from the drain channel.

Thanks very much for that; I'll check. It does strike me as slightly odd,
though, that water should freeze in the interior of a fridge which
(presumably) is at above freezing point.

Mentalguy2k8

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Sep 2, 2013, 9:41:18 AM9/2/13
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"Bert Coules" <ma...@bertcoules.co.uk> wrote in message
news:dsOdnS1dVe6HDbnP...@brightview.co.uk...
I have a 2nd standalone fridge for drinks and other crap that has a "sweet
spot" in the middle of the middle shelf, if I put any liquid there, it
freezes overnight. I only noticed when I heard a dull thud one morning and
opened it up to find a can of fizzy drink (from a wrapped 6-pack) had
exploded and the contents had coated the whole interior. 4 of the other cans
were fine, the 5th was a little bit frozen, this one can just happened to be
exactly in the right spot overnight. Brown ice everywhere :(

Maybe with any fridge there is a spot that's colder than everywhere else,
depending on how it cools, airflow, etc, and I do keep it quite cold in
there because there's nothing worse than not-very-cold cold drinks. I just
make sure to leave that spot empty. I've never seen any "loose" ice in there
though.

charles

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Sep 2, 2013, 9:53:05 AM9/2/13
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In article <dsOdnS1dVe6HDbnP...@brightview.co.uk>,
Being immediately above the freezer compartment might explain it.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

Jeremy Nicoll - news posts

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Sep 2, 2013, 10:06:04 AM9/2/13
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and...@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

> The cold panel (usually the rear panel) will have a condensate collection
> channel along the bottom of it, with a drain hole so the water can run out
> to the back (where it drains into a tray on top of the hot compressor and
> evaporates).

My mother's fridge has the same problem, but it's not the condensate
collector being blocked that's the issue. There's never any sign of any
water in it.

I think it's a mix of the freezer underneath making the bottom of the larder
fridge cold, and that naturally any air that does circulate in the larder
fridge will, if colder than the rest, end up at the bottom, well below the
condensate drain.

I think also that the way the salad drawers are designed - not really
drawres, more like a pair of deep sealed boxes, means that air circulation
under them (where the water collects) is poor, so once water collects there
it stays there.

The salad 'drawers' themselves also have items freeze solid inside them, if
they are left undisturbed for a long time.

--
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

Email sent to my from-address will be deleted. Instead, please reply
to newsre...@wingsandbeaks.org.uk replacing "aaa" by "284".

Roland Perry

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Sep 2, 2013, 10:41:03 AM9/2/13
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In message <K5GdnSFcfpNAFLnP...@brightview.co.uk>, at
13:51:41 on Mon, 2 Sep 2013, Bert Coules <ma...@bertcoules.co.uk>
remarked:
>I was surprised to find this morning that a sheet of ice has formed on
>the bottom of the inside of my fridge, underneath where one of the
>salad trays sits. I don't know how long it's been there.
...
>The fridge is the top half of a Beko fridge-freezer and the freezer is
>working perfectly. Should I be concerned about this? Does it
>indicate that something's wrong somewhere?

Congratulations, you now have a freezer/freezer. I had one of them too,
and it might well have been a Beko. There's an outside chance you might
be able to repair the thermostat, but other than that you need to become
familiar with your council's recycling facilities.
--
Roland Perry

Scion

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Sep 2, 2013, 10:50:31 AM9/2/13
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Andrew Gabriel put finger to keyboard:
When my fridge drain hole blocked, the bottom of the fridge got wet and
ice formed on the inside back panel.

The drain hole contains a small plastic spatula/prodder, about 2 inches
long, for the purpose of manually clearing the blockage. Worked a treat.

Bert Coules

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Sep 2, 2013, 10:59:51 AM9/2/13
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"Scion" wrote:

> The drain hole contains a small plastic spatula/prodder, about 2 inches
> long, for the purpose of manually clearing the blockage. Worked a treat.

My fridge-freezer has the same gizmo. But curiously, it actually lives in
the drain hole - small prongs on the handle stop it from sealing the
aperture. As far as I can see there's no way to make it go any deeper into
the hole than it already is, which means that if there's a blockage further
down, the plastic clearing device can't reach it.


Bert Coules

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Sep 2, 2013, 11:02:19 AM9/2/13
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Roland Perry wrote:

> Congratulations, you now have a freezer/freezer...
> you need to become familiar with your council's
> recycling facilities.

That seems unnecessarily pessimistic. There are no indications that the
fridge is too cold anywhere other than on the very bottom of the lowest
compartment.


Bert Coules

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Sep 2, 2013, 11:05:05 AM9/2/13
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Thanks to everyone for the responses. The drain hole is not blocked (unless
the obstruction is further down than the supplied blockage-clearer can
reach) but there is a build-up of ice in the channels leading to it.

As far as I can tell, nothing in the fridge has been blocking the drain or
obscuring the run-offs.

I plan to remove the ice, leave the thermostat setting as it is, and see
what happens.


Roland Perry

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Sep 2, 2013, 11:12:12 AM9/2/13
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In message <7v6dnTNr_-XmNbnP...@brightview.co.uk>, at
16:02:19 on Mon, 2 Sep 2013, Bert Coules <ma...@bertcoules.co.uk>
remarked:
That's what I thought too, until all my vegetables froze.
--
Roland Perry

Dennis Davis

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Sep 2, 2013, 11:36:29 AM9/2/13
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In article <b_ydnZsbiIG_NLnP...@brightview.co.uk>,
Bert Coules <ma...@bertcoules.co.uk> wrote:
>Thanks to everyone for the responses. The drain hole is not
>blocked (unless the obstruction is further down than the supplied
>blockage-clearer can reach) but there is a build-up of ice in the
>channels leading to it.

...

That describes exactly what happens to my fridge every few years
or so. I run a long piece of thin, flexible wire down through the
drainage hole and associated pipe to clear the blockage. Something
like a bicycle brake or gear cable is ideal. I use piece of old
gear cable. Nerd that I am, I leave the cable in a polythene bag in
the fridge so I can find it when I need it :-)
--
Dennis Davis <denni...@fastmail.fm>

Bert Coules

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Sep 2, 2013, 11:39:34 AM9/2/13
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Roland Perry wrote:

> That's what I thought too, until all my vegetables froze.

Well, I'll keep a careful watch out for any unexpected solidity. Thanks for
the warning.

Bert Coules

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Sep 2, 2013, 11:40:20 AM9/2/13
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Dennis Davis wrote:

> I run a long piece of thin, flexible wire down through the
> drainage hole and associated pipe to clear the blockage...

Good idea, I'll try it. Thanks.


Scion

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Sep 2, 2013, 11:43:27 AM9/2/13
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Bert Coules put finger to keyboard:
Presumably it's long enough to clear the bottom of the drain hole.

The Other John

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Sep 2, 2013, 11:47:27 AM9/2/13
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On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 14:50:31 +0000, Scion wrote:

> The drain hole contains a small plastic spatula/prodder, about 2 inches
> long, for the purpose of manually clearing the blockage. Worked a treat.

Mine doesn't have a prodder so I use a furry pipe cleaner bought in
bundles from craft shops. The water in my fridge tends to go slimy which
is why it blocks the drain hole.

TOJ.

Bert Coules

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Sep 2, 2013, 11:50:34 AM9/2/13
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"Scion" wrote:

> Presumably it's long enough to clear the bottom of the drain hole.

That's difficult to say, since it's not easy to see exactly where the bottom
is. But surely if it is that long, and if the drain were blocked above that
point, then the blockage would have formed around the prodder? I felt no
resistance when pulling it out.


Andrew Gabriel

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Sep 2, 2013, 11:53:34 AM9/2/13
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In article <OvCdnYKSo4x6OrnP...@brightview.co.uk>,
It's often just a 2" pipe, which then opens into the top of a larger
vertical pipe which down to the trap on top of the compressor.

Andrew Gabriel

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Sep 2, 2013, 12:13:40 PM9/2/13
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In article <b_ydnZsbiIG_NLnP...@brightview.co.uk>,
It might be ice blocking it.

Ice forming in a fridge can be due to lack of air circulation, causing
some parts to get too cold, whilst more worryingly, other parts
are not cold enough. This is due to either putting too much in the
fridge, or having loose wrappings, so there's no space for air
circulation between the stored items.

It can also happen if the door isn't quite shut, causing the compressor
to run continuously, and freezing things near/under the cooling panel.

When you think it's unblocked, try pouring *a little* water into the
condensate channel and watch to make sure it drains away properly,
and doesn't spill over into the bottom of the fridge.

Mr Pounder

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Sep 2, 2013, 12:30:00 PM9/2/13
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"Bert Coules" <ma...@bertcoules.co.uk> wrote in message
news:K5GdnSFcfpNAFLnP...@brightview.co.uk...
Water from a blocked drain hole should not freeze in the refrigerator
compartment.
This sounds like insulation failure between the freezer and the refrigerator
compartment.
How old is the fridge freezer and is it frost free?
>


Bert Coules

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Sep 2, 2013, 12:35:46 PM9/2/13
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Mr Pounder wrote:

> How old is the fridge freezer and is it frost free?

It was bought about six years ago, I think. And yes, it is frost free.


Bert Coules

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Sep 2, 2013, 12:41:00 PM9/2/13
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Andrew Gabriel wrote:

> Ice forming in a fridge can be due to lack of air circulation...

I've always been careful about that.

> It can also happen if the door isn't quite shut...

The other day I did notice that the door was very slightly ajar. As far as
I could work out, it had been that way for a couple of hours. Would that be
long enough for ice to form?

> When you think it's unblocked, try pouring *a little* water into the
> condensate channel and watch to make sure it drains away properly...

I just tried it. The water drained away with no problems.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Mr Pounder

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Sep 2, 2013, 1:06:15 PM9/2/13
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"Bert Coules" <ma...@bertcoules.co.uk> wrote in message
news:KYadnX89nM3_I7nP...@brightview.co.uk...
> Mr Pounder wrote:
>
>> How old is the fridge freezer and is it frost free?
>
> It was bought about six years ago, I think. And yes, it is frost free.

It does sound like insulation failure and I hope I'm wrong as there is not
an economic repair.
The -18C temps in the freezer are leaking into the refrigerator. It
happens.
If I'm correct and the unit is less than 6 years old you may have a claim
under the sale of goods act.
You will have to prove the fault and show that the fault is a manufacturing
fault, which it obviously is.
Probably not worthwhile.
>
>


Bert Coules

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Sep 2, 2013, 1:28:05 PM9/2/13
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"Mr Pounder" wrote:

> It does sound like insulation failure and
> I hope I'm wrong as there is not an economic repair.

Oh dear. Well, thanks for the thought: I'll keep a careful eye on things
and see what transpires,

Jeremy Nicoll - news posts

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Sep 2, 2013, 1:46:27 PM9/2/13
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What volume of ice do you get over what sort of time interval? With my
mother's f/f I doubt there's more than about a tablespoonful of water
freezing per week.

Bert Coules

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Sep 2, 2013, 1:54:33 PM9/2/13
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Jeremy Nicoll wrote:

> What volume of ice do you get over what sort of time interval?

That's not easy to answer. Today was the first time I'd ever noticed it, so
I've no idea how long it's taken to get to that state. There was a thin
coating of ice (thin enough to easily scrape off with a plastic spatula)
covering almost exactly half of the bottom of the fridge, where the two
salad drawers sit side-by-side. The ice was neatly formed under the
left-hand drawer and was slightly thicker towards the back.

I also discovered a more solid build-up in the left-hand drainage channel at
the back of the fridge.


Mr Pounder

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Sep 2, 2013, 2:19:18 PM9/2/13
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"Bert Coules" <ma...@bertcoules.co.uk> wrote in message
news:WI6dnXMsUYU4V7nP...@brightview.co.uk...
My mother bought what was then a quality fridge freezer, Zanissi and it cost
her a lot of money. She got the same problem as you and I diagnosed
insulation failure. I used to repair refrigeration in those days.
She had taken out the extended warrantee. Out comes repair man who fits new
thermostat....ffs. Back comes the ice.
Out comes different repair man who got it right.
She got some money back under warrantee, not the full amount that she had
paid.

>


Dave Liquorice

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Sep 2, 2013, 3:17:32 PM9/2/13
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On Mon, 2 Sep 2013 16:13:40 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Gabriel wrote:

> When you think it's unblocked, try pouring *a little* water into the
> condensate channel and watch to make sure it drains away properly,

Better still drag the thing out and check that the dish on top of the
compressor isn't running extensive experiments in new and exotic
forms baterial and fungal life. B-)

The unit in question is a fridge freezer with the fridge on top, so
the drain pipe is probably 3' long...

--
Cheers
Dave.



Chris J Dixon

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Sep 3, 2013, 3:17:03 AM9/3/13
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Roland Perry wrote:

>In message <7v6dnTNr_-XmNbnP...@brightview.co.uk>, at
>16:02:19 on Mon, 2 Sep 2013, Bert Coules <ma...@bertcoules.co.uk>
>remarked:

>>That seems unnecessarily pessimistic. There are no indications that
>>the fridge is too cold anywhere other than on the very bottom of the
>>lowest compartment.
>
>That's what I thought too, until all my vegetables froze.

With a conventional fridge I often found that lettuce stored in
the designated "salad drawer" would freeze. Basic physics
dictates that this will be the coldest spot, so why it is chosen
for stuff that really doesn't like to be frozen beats me. I ended
up using the drawer for less vulnerable items.

My present appliance has an optional circulating fan, which I
have turned on. It may use a tiny bit of extra energy, but
knowing that the entire fridge is, as near as is practicable, at
the designated (and indicated) temperature is well worth it.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
ch...@cdixon.me.uk

Plant amazing Acers.

Roland Perry

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Sep 3, 2013, 4:07:52 AM9/3/13
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In message <ut2b29tkpn2uf5b2g...@4ax.com>, at 08:17:03 on
Tue, 3 Sep 2013, Chris J Dixon <ch...@cdixon.me.uk> remarked:

>>>There are no indications that the fridge is too cold anywhere other
>>>than on the very bottom of the lowest compartment.
>>
>>That's what I thought too, until all my vegetables froze.
>
>With a conventional fridge I often found that lettuce stored in
>the designated "salad drawer" would freeze.

It had never happened before in that fridge, or any other I'd owned.
--
Roland Perry

happy zombie jebus on the cross

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Sep 3, 2013, 7:58:33 AM9/3/13
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On Mon, 2 Sep 2013 13:10:21 +0000 (UTC), and...@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

>In article <K5GdnSFcfpNAFLnP...@brightview.co.uk>,
> "Bert Coules" <ma...@bertcoules.co.uk> writes:
>> I was surprised to find this morning that a sheet of ice has formed on the
>> bottom of the inside of my fridge, underneath where one of the salad trays
>> sits. I don't know how long it's been there.
>>
>> The fridge setting is at 3 (of a range of 1 to 5) and hasn't been changed
>> all summer. Once in the past, the control was accidentally turned to the
>> highest setting and this was only discovered when liquids stored in the
>> fridge began to freeze, but that hasn't happened since that one occasion:
>> despite the presence of the ice, milk, fruit juice and so on are still
>> liquid.
>>
>> The fridge is the top half of a Beko fridge-freezer and the freezer is
>> working perfectly. Should I be concerned about this? Does it indicate
>> that something's wrong somewhere? Many thanks.
>
>The cold panel (usually the rear panel) will have a condensate collection
>channel along the bottom of it, with a drain hole so the water can run out
>to the back (where it drains into a tray on top of the hot compressor and
>evaporates).
>
>The problem is either that the drain hole has got blocked so the channel
>overflows into the bottom of the fridge, or that something stored in the
>fridge is leaning against the cold panel and redirecting the condensate
>away from the drain channel.

funny you should say that. anything that touches the back of my fridge freezes solid. its a hotpoint
rl 175.

we get a lot of water in the bottow even if nothing is touching the back and have to remove it every
couple of weeks.


--

mhm x v i x i i i

Mr Pounder

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Sep 3, 2013, 11:54:29 AM9/3/13
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"happy zombie jebus on the cross" <meow.mix@FUCK_OFF_SPAMMER_meow.org> wrote
in message news:jejb29h2c12p20hl3...@4ax.com...
The temperature of the backplate can be -20C at times.
You have a blocked drain hole. Curtain wire that is used for hanging net
curtains will clear it.
>
>


happy zombie jebus on the cross

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Sep 3, 2013, 2:20:18 PM9/3/13
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i know they get blocked. atm it looks clear. when i last took the whole fridge out i cleaned the
hole right out and the little tray it drips into. that wasn't that long ago.

i wouldn't be at all suprized if it is blocked lower than i can see. i'll get the mrs to help me
sort it out tomorrow. i normaly use a small bamboo stick and a jay cloth kinda thing to poke any
filth through and clean it.

Mr Pounder

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Sep 3, 2013, 4:03:28 PM9/3/13
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"happy zombie jebus on the cross" <meow.mix@FUCK_OFF_SPAMMER_meow.org> wrote
in message news:tc5c29hdmuei1vsac...@4ax.com...
Curtain wire or a length of electrical cable. I would not use a bamboo
stick.

happy zombie jebus on the cross

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Sep 3, 2013, 4:34:06 PM9/3/13
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its one of those skewer ones for cooking. i put the cleaing cloth over the whole and gently push the
stick (surrounded by cleaning cloth)through the hole. the stick is much smaller than the hole so no
damage to be caused by it.

i guess i could try your method, i do have a shitload of the curtain wire in a drawer somewhere. or
a tool box. one or the other.

Mr Pounder

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Sep 4, 2013, 5:31:13 AM9/4/13
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"happy zombie jebus on the cross" <meow.mix@FUCK_OFF_SPAMMER_meow.org> wrote
in message news:2ohc291s7c3ouca63...@4ax.com...
Years ago I used to fix fringes, the blocked drain hole was common. The
curtain wire always worked.


Onetap

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Sep 4, 2013, 9:13:17 AM9/4/13
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On Tuesday, September 3, 2013 8:17:03 AM UTC+1, Chris J Dixon wrote:

> With a conventional fridge I often found that lettuce stored in
>
> the designated "salad drawer" would freeze. Basic physics
>
> dictates that this will be the coldest spot, so why it is chosen
>
> for stuff that really doesn't like to be frozen beats me. I ended
>
> up using the drawer for less vulnerable items.

The evaporator (the cold bit) is usually in the back wall of the fridge.

I'd defrost it, ensure the drain holes are clear and see if it goes. If it is an insulation breakdown (seems plausible) you could stick in a bit of closed cell type insulating mat, like those roll mats campers use.
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