Connecting replacement hot water cylinder
Tony Polson
leaking cylinder, so now I need to install it. Before ordering, I
checked that it is exactly the same size as the old cylinder with the
connections in the same places.
Can anyone please give me (or point me towards) a brief guide to the
connections? As they are threaded, do I use plumbers' hemp and boss
white on the threads or is PTFE tape man enough for the job? What is
the best way to seal the immersion heater to the tank while making
sure it can easily be removed in future?
Any and all advice will be very, very welcome.
Tony
Andy Hall
> My new copper hot water cylinder has been delivered to replace a
> leaking cylinder, so now I need to install it. Before ordering, I
> checked that it is exactly the same size as the old cylinder with the
> connections in the same places.
>
> Can anyone please give me (or point me towards) a brief guide to the
> connections? As they are threaded, do I use plumbers' hemp and boss
> white on the threads or is PTFE tape man enough for the job?
You can use either, although there is a particular sealant that is
supposed to be used for potable water connections which is green in
colour.
> What is
> the best way to seal the immersion heater to the tank while making
> sure it can easily be removed in future?
There should be a fibre washer with it. Nothing else is needed.
Tighten on fitting but not too much. Fill the cylinder and tighten
more to stop seepage. A little is OK because it will usually stop
when the washer swells.
>
> Any and all advice will be very, very welcome.
> Tony
If you have any of those red wheeled gate valves, now is the perfect
time to cast them into outer darkness and replace them with lever ball
valves. These are quarter turn valves with a handle and are full bore
so don't restrict flow. They don't stick and don't leak around the
spindle.
Try to avoid having any connections to the cylinder in inaccessible
positions. The one that will leak will be the bottom one at the back.
If you didn't buy a new immersion heater, you should. Firstly you can
get better quality ones than are typically fitted by plumbers for only
a few pounds more and also the latest ones have an additional safety
cutout.
Alex
pipework,if you have a olive cutter remove old olives an replace with new.do
not overtighten the immersion until there is water in the tank it is very
easy to damage at this stage.
TheScullster
"Andy Hall" wrote
>
> If you have any of those red wheeled gate valves, now is the perfect time
> to cast them into outer darkness and replace them with lever ball valves.
> These are quarter turn valves with a handle and are full bore so don't
> restrict flow. They don't stick and don't leak around the spindle.
>
purchase for fitting around the hw cylinder.
By default, you will be offered reduced bore (much cheaper but will restrict
flow).
Phil
Guy King
from "Alex" <ale...@msn.com> contains these words:
And consider copper-grease on the immersion heater threads 'cos they can
be an utter sod to get out later.
--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.
Tony Polson
>The message <XKOdnZbK5anV2lTZ...@bt.com>
>from "Alex" <ale...@msn.com> contains these words:
>
>> Top tip is clean out all old sealants from compression fittings on
>> pipework,if you have a olive cutter remove old olives an replace with
>> new.do
>> not overtighten the immersion until there is water in the tank it is very
>> easy to damage at this stage.
>
>And consider copper-grease on the immersion heater threads 'cos they can
>be an utter sod to get out later.
Thanks for that - it was the impossibility of removing the failed
immersion heater that led to the leak which meant replacing the tank.
To think that £140 could have been saved by a smear of copper grease!
Thanks again to all who replied.
Roger Mills
Tony Polson <t...@nospam.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Thanks for that - it was the impossibility of removing the failed
> immersion heater that led to the leak which meant replacing the tank.
> To think that £140 could have been saved by a smear of copper grease!
>
It would be safer to say that £140 *may* have been saved by a smear . .
In some cases, it's virtually impossible to remove an immersion heater
non-destructively after it's been in for a few years - whatever you do.
Perceived wisdom (in other words, the general concensus in this NG <g>)
seems to say that your best chance of getting it out without damaging the
tank is to slacken it while the tank is still full, and to use impact rather
than steady torque - in other words, hit a short spanner with a hammer
rather than pulling steadily on the end of a long lever.
--
Cheers,
Roger
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Richard Conway
> In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
> Tony Polson <t...@nospam.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for that - it was the impossibility of removing the failed
>> immersion heater that led to the leak which meant replacing the tank.
>> To think that £140 could have been saved by a smear of copper grease!
>>
>
> It would be safer to say that £140 *may* have been saved by a smear . .
>
> In some cases, it's virtually impossible to remove an immersion heater
> non-destructively after it's been in for a few years - whatever you do.
> Perceived wisdom (in other words, the general concensus in this NG <g>)
> seems to say that your best chance of getting it out without damaging the
> tank is to slacken it while the tank is still full, and to use impact rather
> than steady torque - in other words, hit a short spanner with a hammer
> rather than pulling steadily on the end of a long lever.
I have heard this cited many times on this group, and although it makes
sense the idea scares the shit out of me!
tony sayer
<r...@weirdness.com> writes
Just have all the stuff to do a drain down handy and ready for immediate
use;!....
--
Tony Sayer
Doctor Drivel
"Roger Mills" <watt....@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:4iuhsfF...@individual.net...
> In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
> Tony Polson <t...@nospam.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>> Thanks for that - it was the impossibility of removing the failed
>> immersion heater that led to the leak which meant replacing the tank.
>> To think that £140 could have been saved by a smear of copper grease!
>>
>
> It would be safer to say that £140 *may* have been saved by a smear . .
>
> In some cases, it's virtually impossible to remove an immersion heater
> non-destructively after it's been in for a few years - whatever you do.
> Perceived wisdom (in other words, the general concensus in this NG <g>)
> seems to say that your best chance of getting it out without damaging the
> tank is to slacken it while the tank is still full, and to use impact
> rather than steady torque - in other words, hit a short spanner with a
> hammer rather than pulling steadily on the end of a long lever.
Another way is to heat the copper around the heater. The copper expands and
it slips out.
Tony Polson
>It would be safer to say that £140 *may* have been saved by a smear . .
>
>In some cases, it's virtually impossible to remove an immersion heater
>non-destructively after it's been in for a few years - whatever you do.
>Perceived wisdom (in other words, the general concensus in this NG <g>)
>seems to say that your best chance of getting it out without damaging the
>tank is to slacken it while the tank is still full, and to use impact rather
>than steady torque - in other words, hit a short spanner with a hammer
>rather than pulling steadily on the end of a long lever.
That's what I did.
The reason why immersion heater spanners have short handles is so you
use a hammer to break the seal rather than huge torque which will bend
and possibly tear the tank.
Tony Polson
>
>Another way is to heat the copper around the heater. The copper expands and
>it slips out.
That sounds like a good idea, but the tank is covered with insulating
foam and the top of the immersion heater is of a much larger diameter
than the threaded boss.
Also, is the boss not soldered in to the tank? In which case the
application of heat might cause more problems than it solves.
Guy King
from Tony Polson <t...@nospam.co.uk> contains these words:
> The reason why immersion heater spanners have short handles is so you
> use a hammer to break the seal rather than huge torque which will bend
> and possibly tear the tank.
For all that, I've have a couple which resist brute force and ignorance
- two things of which I can supply a sufficiency.
Doctor Drivel
"Tony Polson" <t...@nospam.co.uk> wrote in message
news:cuqkc2h41d1cadcg0...@4ax.com...
> "Doctor Drivel" <Min...@nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>>Another way is to heat the copper around the heater. The copper expands
>>and
>>it slips out.
>
>
> That sounds like a good idea, but the tank is covered with insulating
> foam and the top of the immersion heater is of a much larger diameter
> than the threaded boss.
You have cut away the insuation. Agfter spy it in via a gun.
> Also, is the boss not soldered in to the tank? In which case the
> application of heat might cause more problems than it solves.
I am on about a threaded immersion. I know what I am on about having done it
many times.
Tony Polson
>The message <7pqkc2p3tuci2pi7p...@4ax.com>
>from Tony Polson <t...@nospam.co.uk> contains these words:
>
>> The reason why immersion heater spanners have short handles is so you
>> use a hammer to break the seal rather than huge torque which will bend
>> and possibly tear the tank.
>
>For all that, I've have a couple which resist brute force and ignorance
>- two things of which I can supply a sufficiency.
Alas I cannot manage the former, but of the latter I have a glut.
;-)
John Stumbles
> Roger Mills wrote:
>> In some cases, it's virtually impossible to remove an immersion heater
>> non-destructively after it's been in for a few years - whatever you do.
>> Perceived wisdom (in other words, the general concensus in this NG <g>)
>> seems to say that your best chance of getting it out without damaging
>> the tank is to slacken it while the tank is still full, and to use
>> impact rather than steady torque - in other words, hit a short spanner
>> with a hammer rather than pulling steadily on the end of a long lever.
>
> I have heard this cited many times on this group, and although it makes
> sense the idea scares the shit out of me!
You don't need to whack the sh1t out of it, just keep hitting moderately
forcefully until it starts moving. Think of those guns fitters use in
garages for loosening and tightening car wheel nuts - you're just doing
the same job a lot slower!
John Stumbles
> You can use either, although there is a particular sealant that is
> supposed to be used for potable water connections which is green in
> colour.
Boss green: not what I'd use for cylinder threads. PTFE tape applied
sufficiently thickly will give a good tight fitting which shouldn't come
undone when you're tightening the compression nut.
>> What is
>> the best way to seal the immersion heater to the tank while making
>> sure it can easily be removed in future?
>
> There should be a fibre washer with it. Nothing else is needed.
> Tighten on fitting but not too much. Fill the cylinder and tighten
> more to stop seepage. A little is OK because it will usually stop
> when the washer swells.
I usually add a squidge of boss green to the washer - helps it not to leak
and may make it easier to remove in the future. (I doubt copper grease is
OK for use with potable water.)
Guy King
from John Stumbles <john.s...@ntlworld.com> contains these words:
> I usually add a squidge of boss green to the washer - helps it not to leak
> and may make it easier to remove in the future. (I doubt copper grease is
> OK for use with potable water.)
Who puts potable water in their hot water tank?
Andy Hall
> The message <pan.2006.07.28....@ntlworld.com>
> from John Stumbles <john.s...@ntlworld.com> contains these words:
>
>> I usually add a squidge of boss green to the washer - helps it not to leak
>> and may make it easier to remove in the future. (I doubt copper grease is
>> OK for use with potable water.)
>
> Who puts potable water in their hot water tank?
.. it is nevertheless considered to be potable from the perspective of
materials and fittings used.
Guy King
from Andy Hall <an...@hall.nospam> contains these words:
> > Who puts potable water in their hot water tank?
> ... it is nevertheless considered to be potable from the perspective of
> materials and fittings used.
I suppose in this one instance it might be a suitable place for PTFE
tape then!
Andy Hall
> The message <44cb...@nt1.hall.gl>
> from Andy Hall <an...@hall.nospam> contains these words:
>
>>> Who puts potable water in their hot water tank?
>
>> ... it is nevertheless considered to be potable from the perspective of
>> materials and fittings used.
>
> I suppose in this one instance it might be a suitable place for PTFE
> tape then!
The only thing is that I've found on occasions that on cylinders the
threaded fittings (especially larger sizes) need a reasonable amount of
packing to avoid leaks. Therefore I've tended to use hemp and Boss
green, but PTFE should be OK as long as the right amount (not too
little or too much) is used, and of course applied the right way round.
Tony Polson
The leak came from the seam between the base of the tank and the
sides. So no hot water last night, and it was off to Wickes first
thing this morning for yet another new cylinder, which we fitted
within an hour, having learned how to do it yesterday.
Our next house will have a combination boiler and no hot water
cylinder. If I never see another cylinder it will be too soon.
;-)