Pikey Express!

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The Medway Handyman

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Jul 14, 2008, 3:47:55 AM7/14/08
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Went out to Currys yesterday, SWMBO decoded we needed a new dishwasher.

Returned home with new machine in van, pulled out the old machine &
installed new, job done by 5pm.

Left the old machine in the front garden, won't fit in SWMBO's Corsa, they
wont let my van into he tip. SWMBO decides to call the council this morning
to get it collected.

I told her not to bother, the pikeys would get it before the council did.
Sure enough, 8:15 this morning a large tattooed bloke rang the doorbell
"alright if we take the dishwasher guv?". By 8:20 it was gone.

Pikey Express have obviously opened a branch in this area :-)

Can't beat that for service!


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk


Dave Baker

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Jul 14, 2008, 4:11:19 AM7/14/08
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"The Medway Handyman" <davi...@nospamblueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:LwDek.26328$E41....@text.news.virginmedia.com...

At £0.17/kilo for "light iron" nowadays (that's basically anything thinner
than about 1/4") even a dead dishwasher or fridge is worth about £8 at the
scrappies. If you have one close enough so the petrol cost doesn't outweigh
the scrap value it's worth taking a run in the van. It's certainly more than
enough to get pikies interested. I'm just surprised they asked first.

Here's a surprising fact. At current scrap prices the scrap value of old
cast iron gutters and downpipes is not so far off the new price of
replacement plastic ones. The net cost to a roofing contractor is basically
zero. Old radiators are worth a few quid each. Pikies have nicked aluminium
road signs for ages as its worth close to £800 a ton but it's now worth
sawing down the steel posts too. Pretty soon nothing made of metal that's
unattended will actually be safe anymore. Next time your bike gets nicked
they'll also take the chain and padlock they cut off.
--
Dave Baker


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Andrew Gabriel

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Jul 14, 2008, 4:30:07 AM7/14/08
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In article <LwDek.26328$E41....@text.news.virginmedia.com>,

Happened with my brother's old bath in London. Propped it up against
the railings. The workman went back indoors to get some more stuff,
specifically the feet for it, but by the time he got back outside,
the bath was gone. They never came back for the feet.

It worked just as well with the brand new bath which the plumber
broke by tightening up the feet too much such that the enamel
pinged off the inside. That one took a bit longer -- we think
about half an hour, probably because of the obvious damage.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

PeterMcC

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Jul 14, 2008, 4:41:55 AM7/14/08
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Dave Baker wrote in
<1f4c8$487b0a25$10...@news.teranews.com>

<snip>


>
> Here's a surprising fact. At current scrap prices the scrap value of
> old cast iron gutters and downpipes is not so far off the new price of
> replacement plastic ones. The net cost to a roofing contractor is
> basically zero. Old radiators are worth a few quid each. Pikies have
> nicked aluminium road signs for ages as its worth close to £800 a ton
> but it's now worth sawing down the steel posts too. Pretty soon
> nothing made of metal that's unattended will actually be safe
> anymore. Next time your bike gets nicked they'll also take the chain
> and padlock they cut off.

It's all about reducing knife crime.

As soon as we reach a point at which the value of a knife at the scrappers
is more than it's value in a mugging, hey presto, no more knife crime.

That's the free market at work.

--
PeterMcC
If you feel that any of the above is incorrect,
inappropriate or offensive in any way,
please ignore it and accept my apologies.

Howard Neil

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Jul 14, 2008, 4:57:05 AM7/14/08
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The Medway Handyman wrote:

> I told her not to bother, the pikeys would get it before the council did.
> Sure enough, 8:15 this morning a large tattooed bloke rang the doorbell
> "alright if we take the dishwasher guv?". By 8:20 it was gone.
>
> Pikey Express have obviously opened a branch in this area :-)
>
> Can't beat that for service!

He knocked and asked if he could take it? That doesn't sound much like
pikeys. Or have they got a new code of conduct? ;-)


--
Howard Neil

Andy Hall

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Jul 14, 2008, 5:05:30 AM7/14/08
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On 2008-07-14 08:47:55 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
<davi...@nospamblueyonder.co.uk> said:

> Went out to Currys yesterday, SWMBO decoded we needed a new dishwasher.

Didn't know she worked at Bletchley Park :-)


>
> Returned home with new machine in van, pulled out the old machine &
> installed new, job done by 5pm.
>
> Left the old machine in the front garden, won't fit in SWMBO's Corsa, they
> wont let my van into he tip. SWMBO decides to call the council this morning
> to get it collected.
>
> I told her not to bother, the pikeys would get it before the council did.
> Sure enough, 8:15 this morning a large tattooed bloke rang the doorbell
> "alright if we take the dishwasher guv?". By 8:20 it was gone.
>
> Pikey Express have obviously opened a branch in this area :-)
>
> Can't beat that for service!

You could offer them signage for their vehicles. Medway Pikeyman.
Better not make them magnetic or they'll be nicked by the Pikey
Pikeys. Hmm that could be an infinite series....


Why won't the jobsworths at the tip allow in your van? It looks smart
enough to me.

Rod

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Jul 14, 2008, 5:18:55 AM7/14/08
to
PeterMcC wrote:
> Dave Baker wrote in
> <1f4c8$487b0a25$10...@news.teranews.com>
>
> <snip>
>> Here's a surprising fact. At current scrap prices the scrap value of
>> old cast iron gutters and downpipes is not so far off the new price of
>> replacement plastic ones. The net cost to a roofing contractor is
>> basically zero. Old radiators are worth a few quid each. Pikies have
>> nicked aluminium road signs for ages as its worth close to £800 a ton
>> but it's now worth sawing down the steel posts too. Pretty soon
>> nothing made of metal that's unattended will actually be safe
>> anymore. Next time your bike gets nicked they'll also take the chain
>> and padlock they cut off.
>
> It's all about reducing knife crime.
>
> As soon as we reach a point at which the value of a knife at the scrappers
> is more than it's value in a mugging, hey presto, no more knife crime.
>
> That's the free market at work.

Damn. I just posted (another thread) about ceramic knives... :-(

(I doubt they have any scrap value beyond ultra-hard-core.)

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
<www.thyromind.info> <www.thyroiduk.org> <www.altsupportthyroid.org>

PeterMcC

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Jul 14, 2008, 5:51:54 AM7/14/08
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Rod wrote in
<6e0k03F...@mid.individual.net>

> PeterMcC wrote:

>>
>> It's all about reducing knife crime.
>>
>> As soon as we reach a point at which the value of a knife at the
>> scrappers is more than it's value in a mugging, hey presto, no more
>> knife crime.
>>
>> That's the free market at work.
>
> Damn. I just posted (another thread) about ceramic knives... :-(
>
> (I doubt they have any scrap value beyond ultra-hard-core.)

...and thanks for not mentioning the apostrophe - I think I got away with
it.

Peter Crosland

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Jul 14, 2008, 7:00:12 AM7/14/08
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There are branches everywhere! Twenty years ago a customer of mine in South
London, who had a TV and video rental business, put a stack of a dozen scrap
Betamax VCR's out on the payment behind his shop while he went to fetch his
van. By the time he got back they had all gone. After that he just put all
the scrap TV's out for pikey collection. The service was fantastic with
nothing left after an hour every time. I just wonder, as did he, why they
kept taking them even though the scrap value was very low then.

Peter Crosland

dennis@home

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Jul 14, 2008, 7:19:11 AM7/14/08
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"Peter Crosland" <g6...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:AMGdnWyrurAhrObV...@posted.plusnet...

Because they strip the bit that is ok and dump the rest.
Shame it wasn't outside his shop so he didn't keep contributing to illegal
tipping.

>
> Peter Crosland
>
>
>

Peter Andrews

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Jul 14, 2008, 7:23:03 AM7/14/08
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"Peter Crosland" <g6...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:AMGdnWyrurAhrObV...@posted.plusnet...

because they could!

Peter


Bruce

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Jul 14, 2008, 7:31:16 AM7/14/08
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"Peter Crosland" <g6...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>There are branches everywhere! Twenty years ago a customer of mine in South
>London, who had a TV and video rental business, put a stack of a dozen scrap
>Betamax VCR's out on the payment behind his shop while he went to fetch his
>van. By the time he got back they had all gone. After that he just put all
>the scrap TV's out for pikey collection. The service was fantastic with
>nothing left after an hour every time. I just wonder, as did he, why they
>kept taking them even though the scrap value was very low then.


Perhaps they realised that the quality of reproduction offered by
Betamax was far superior to that offered by VHS, and they were merely
taking the opportunity of upgrading their caravans' VCRs to Betamax.

;-)

Anna Kettle

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Jul 14, 2008, 8:05:07 AM7/14/08
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On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 09:11:19 +0100, "Dave Baker" <Nu...@null.com>
wrote:

>
>"The Medway Handyman" <davi...@nospamblueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:LwDek.26328$E41....@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>> Went out to Currys yesterday, SWMBO decoded we needed a new dishwasher.
>>
>> Returned home with new machine in van, pulled out the old machine &
>> installed new, job done by 5pm.
>>
>> Left the old machine in the front garden, won't fit in SWMBO's Corsa, they
>> wont let my van into he tip. SWMBO decides to call the council this
>> morning to get it collected.
>>
>> I told her not to bother, the pikeys would get it before the council did.
>> Sure enough, 8:15 this morning a large tattooed bloke rang the doorbell
>> "alright if we take the dishwasher guv?". By 8:20 it was gone.
>>
>> Pikey Express have obviously opened a branch in this area :-)
>>
>> Can't beat that for service!
>
>At £0.17/kilo for "light iron" nowadays (that's basically anything thinner
>than about 1/4") even a dead dishwasher or fridge is worth about £8 at the
>scrappies. If you have one close enough so the petrol cost doesn't outweigh
>the scrap value it's worth taking a run in the van. It's certainly more than
>enough to get pikies interested. I'm just surprised they asked first.

Thats cos they are not pikeys at least by my definition of pikey**,
they are upstanding gypsies who work for a living. When I was living
in Bristol on a suburban backstreet, they would drive along the road
about once a week, if they spotted scrap metal out front, they would
always ring the bell to ask if they could have it. Often, house owners
went to work leaving a note to 'help yourself'. The system worked very
well.

** ie people who steal anything not tied down, lay substandard
driveways for cash etc etc

Anna
--
Anna Kettle
Lime plaster repair and conservation
Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc
Tel:    (+44)  01359 230642
Mob:  (+44)  07976 649862
Please look at my website for examples of my work at:
www.kettlenet.co.uk  

Dave Plowman (News)

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Jul 14, 2008, 9:19:01 AM7/14/08
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In article <LwDek.26328$E41....@text.news.virginmedia.com>,

The Medway Handyman <davi...@nospamblueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> I told her not to bother, the pikeys would get it before the council
> did. Sure enough, 8:15 this morning a large tattooed bloke rang the
> doorbell "alright if we take the dishwasher guv?". By 8:20 it was gone.

You must have a different type of pikey round your way. Here they'd just
take it.

--
*Everyone has a photographic memory. Some just don't have film*

Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

The Medway Handyman

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Jul 14, 2008, 1:47:30 PM7/14/08
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I think we are getting a better class of pikey here in Kent...

Owain

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Jul 14, 2008, 2:45:06 PM7/14/08
to
Howard Neil wrote:
> The Medway Handyman wrote:
>> ... Sure enough, 8:15 this morning a large tattooed bloke rang the
>> doorbell "alright if we take the dishwasher guv?".
> He knocked and asked if he could take it? That doesn't sound much like
> pikeys. Or have they got a new code of conduct? ;-)

Probably signed up with Medway Fair Trader scheme :-)

I'm not quite sure why Medway trading standards require criminal records
checks through Disclosure Scotland, though, and not the English equivalent.

Owain


Colin Wilson

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Jul 14, 2008, 3:31:49 PM7/14/08
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> Pikey Express have obviously opened a branch in this area :-)

They'll be along for your new one when you're out...

Andrew Gabriel

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Jul 14, 2008, 3:42:22 PM7/14/08
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In article <DYadndQH7phqA-bV...@posted.plusnet>,

Lots of companies which are not in Scotland use Disclosure Scotland.
They are one of the companies permitted to make CRB checks.

The Medway Handyman

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Jul 14, 2008, 5:31:14 PM7/14/08
to
Andy Hall wrote:
> On 2008-07-14 08:47:55 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
> <davi...@nospamblueyonder.co.uk> said:
>
>> Went out to Currys yesterday, SWMBO decoded we needed a new
>> dishwasher.
>
> Didn't know she worked at Bletchley Park :-)

You've never spoken to my missus have you?


>
>
>>
>> Returned home with new machine in van, pulled out the old machine &
>> installed new, job done by 5pm.
>>
>> Left the old machine in the front garden, won't fit in SWMBO's
>> Corsa, they wont let my van into he tip. SWMBO decides to call the
>> council this morning to get it collected.
>>
>> I told her not to bother, the pikeys would get it before the council
>> did. Sure enough, 8:15 this morning a large tattooed bloke rang the
>> doorbell "alright if we take the dishwasher guv?". By 8:20 it was
>> gone. Pikey Express have obviously opened a branch in this area :-)
>>
>> Can't beat that for service!
>
> You could offer them signage for their vehicles. Medway Pikeyman.
> Better not make them magnetic or they'll be nicked by the Pikey
> Pikeys. Hmm that could be an infinite series....
>
>
> Why won't the jobsworths at the tip allow in your van? It looks
> smart enough to me.

Oh tee hee. NO COMMERCIAL VERHICLES states the large sign next to the
height barrier...

Mark

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Jul 14, 2008, 6:12:31 PM7/14/08
to

The Medway Handyman <davi...@nospamblueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:LwDek.26328

>
> Sure enough, 8:15 this morning a large tattooed bloke rang the doorbell
> "alright if we take the dishwasher guv?". By 8:20 it was gone.


Was he driving a Hercules ?


-


Andy Hall

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Jul 14, 2008, 6:13:15 PM7/14/08
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On 2008-07-14 22:31:14 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
<davi...@nospamblueyonder.co.uk> said:

So don't they have a separate area with weighbridges for commercial
users? Weigh on the way in, weigh on the way out is the way. Then
you pay


The Medway Handyman

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Jul 14, 2008, 7:03:46 PM7/14/08
to

Not in any of my local tips no. Getting rid of my old dishwasher is not
trade waste anyway, why should I pay to get rid of it? I already pay piggin
council tak.

The Medway Handyman

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Jul 14, 2008, 7:04:32 PM7/14/08
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Oddly enough it was a Transit...

Andy Hall

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Jul 14, 2008, 7:12:54 PM7/14/08
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On 2008-07-15 00:03:46 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"

OK, but that aside, what are you meant to do with trade waste?

Frank Erskine

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Jul 14, 2008, 7:17:51 PM7/14/08
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On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 19:45:06 +0100, Owain
<owain...@stirlingcity.coo.uk> wrote:

>Howard Neil wrote:
>> The Medway Handyman wrote:
>>> ... Sure enough, 8:15 this morning a large tattooed bloke rang the
>>> doorbell "alright if we take the dishwasher guv?".
>> He knocked and asked if he could take it? That doesn't sound much like
>> pikeys. Or have they got a new code of conduct? ;-)
>
>Probably signed up with Medway Fair Trader scheme :-)

Isn't that an oxymoron?

;-)

--
Frank Erskine

The Medway Handyman

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Jul 14, 2008, 7:20:20 PM7/14/08
to

Dunno actually, I have no intention of shelling out £300 + a year for a
waste transfer license.

I think there is a tip about 10 miles away for trade waste, never been
there.

Andy Hall

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Jul 14, 2008, 7:28:00 PM7/14/08
to
On 2008-07-15 00:20:20 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
<davi...@nospamblueyonder.co.uk> said:

> Andy Hall wrote:
>> On 2008-07-15 00:03:46 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
>> <davi...@nospamblueyonder.co.uk> said:
>>>>>>
>>>>> Oh tee hee. NO COMMERCIAL VERHICLES states the large sign next to
>>>>> the height barrier...
>>>>
>>>> So don't they have a separate area with weighbridges for commercial
>>>> users? Weigh on the way in, weigh on the way out is the way. Then
>>>> you pay
>>>
>>> Not in any of my local tips no. Getting rid of my old dishwasher is
>>> not trade waste anyway, why should I pay to get rid of it? I
>>> already pay piggin council tak.
>>
>> OK, but that aside, what are you meant to do with trade waste?
>
> Dunno actually, I have no intention of shelling out £300 + a year for a
> waste transfer license.
>
> I think there is a tip about 10 miles away for trade waste, never been
> there.

So you need a license for that and pay charges on top? Stuff that,
as you say.

I suppose it does mean that your punters are left having to dump the
waste which is a shame.

Frank Erskine

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Jul 14, 2008, 7:37:35 PM7/14/08
to

I had my kitchen refitted a few months ago by a local kitchen firm who
subcontracted to a decent outfit (apart from them smoking as they
worked (smoking seems to be a normal trait by EVERYBODY in the pseudo
building trade) as well as electricians).
At their suggestion my old sink unit and cooker were left in front of
their skip rather than in it. Within an hour or so, after I'd walked
the dog, the items were gone.
No problem as far as I'm concerned. I wouldn't call them Pikeys
(whatever they are), rather a form of rag 'n' bone men.

--
Frank Erskine

Andy Hall

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Jul 14, 2008, 7:46:03 PM7/14/08
to
On 2008-07-15 00:37:35 +0100, Frank Erskine
<frank....@btinternet.com> said:

> On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 17:47:30 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
> <davi...@nospamblueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Howard Neil wrote:
>>> The Medway Handyman wrote:
>>>
>>>> I told her not to bother, the pikeys would get it before the council
>>>> did. Sure enough, 8:15 this morning a large tattooed bloke rang the
>>>> doorbell "alright if we take the dishwasher guv?". By 8:20 it was
>>>> gone. Pikey Express have obviously opened a branch in this area :-)
>>>>
>>>> Can't beat that for service!
>>>
>>> He knocked and asked if he could take it? That doesn't sound much like
>>> pikeys. Or have they got a new code of conduct? ;-)
>>
>> I think we are getting a better class of pikey here in Kent...
>
> I had my kitchen refitted a few months ago by a local kitchen firm who
> subcontracted to a decent outfit (apart from them smoking as they
> worked (smoking seems to be a normal trait by EVERYBODY in the pseudo
> building trade) as well as electricians).

You mean you let them smoke in the house?

somebody

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Jul 14, 2008, 7:45:50 PM7/14/08
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In message <mXQek.26920$E41....@text.news.virginmedia.com>, The Medway
Handyman <davi...@nospamblueyonder.co.uk> writes

>Andy Hall wrote:
>>
>> So don't they have a separate area with weighbridges for commercial
>> users? Weigh on the way in, weigh on the way out is the way. Then
>> you pay
>
>Not in any of my local tips no. Getting rid of my old dishwasher is not
>trade waste anyway, why should I pay to get rid of it? I already pay piggin
>council tak.
>

Absolutely right Dave, why pay twice? Round this way the bloody
jobsworths at the tip do their job so well that I won't even bother
turning up on a Sunday when the height barriers are removed.

Now, if I'd bought a trailer instead of a "custom camper dragster
tipping transit"[1] I could take the trailer to the local tip attached
to the back of the car (but only if it is a single wheeled, non braked
trailer).

Instead, I quite simply cannot be arsed and end up paying £57 pound per
ton (of which something like 70% is tax) to commercial land fill
instead. Also, I *alwasy* carry a copy of the letter from the local
tosspots (council) to confirm I don't need a waste transfer licence for
my own non-commercial waste. Without that letter there is a real risk
that the van (custom camper dragster tipping transit[2]) could be
crushed *if they "catch" me*. (doing what? I ask).

Absolutely bloody ridiculous, and yes, I have written to the other local
tosspot (MP) to say so and to point out that by some vaguary of their
well thought out taxes, it costs me more to tip at commercial recyclers
than it does to tip at land fill.

Someone

[1] That's something else entirely which I have alluded to but nor sure I want
to admit to :-)

[2] I've said already. See [1]

Dave Plowman (News)

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Jul 14, 2008, 8:18:26 PM7/14/08
to
In article <487be53c@qaanaaq>,

Andy Hall <an...@hall.nospam> wrote:
> > I had my kitchen refitted a few months ago by a local kitchen firm who
> > subcontracted to a decent outfit (apart from them smoking as they
> > worked (smoking seems to be a normal trait by EVERYBODY in the pseudo
> > building trade) as well as electricians).

> You mean you let them smoke in the house?

The local lot who are doing a basement conversion on an empty house come
out to the street for their smoke.

--
*To steal ideas from *one* person is plagiarism; from many, research*

The Natural Philosopher

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Jul 15, 2008, 1:08:57 AM7/15/08
to
hire a skip, and let the skip people do the dirty.

A.Lee

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Jul 15, 2008, 2:52:33 AM7/15/08
to
Andy Hall <an...@hall.nospam> wrote:
> On 2008-07-15 00:20:20 +0100, "The Medway Handyman" said:

> > Andy Hall wrote:
> >> OK, but that aside, what are you meant to do with trade waste?
> >
> > Dunno actually, I have no intention of shelling out £300 + a year for a
> > waste transfer license.
> >
> > I think there is a tip about 10 miles away for trade waste, never been
> > there.
>
> So you need a license for that and pay charges on top? Stuff that,
> as you say.
> I suppose it does mean that your punters are left having to dump the
> waste which is a shame.

This is a bone of contention for many people, myself included.
I would gladly go to the local tip, get weighed, then pay the cost for
what I have dumped (currently ~£60/tonne).

But they dont allow that. You need the waste transfer licence (Dave has
exaggeratted a little, it is £50/yr), then to be registered with your
local tip to allow you to dump there (£5ish registration), then the
killer - the cost of dumping - minimum charge of £35+vat.
So the typical bathroom refurb amounting of a bath, toilet, and basin,
typical weight of 50kgs will cost me £35, plus all the relevant
paperwork, and time getting there. I am fortunate in that the only trade
waste tip in Leics. is 2 miles away, but there again, I dont use it.

It is far easier to either get the customer to dump the wate at no cost,
or charge them for a mini skip at £70 to take the rubbish away.

This is why there is so much fly tipping - even if you want to pay to
dump it, you cannot dump without all of the relevant paperwork with you
when you go to the tip, then they charge you for 500kg of waste when you
have only got 50kg.
Alan.

--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

Bob Mannix

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Jul 15, 2008, 3:00:57 AM7/15/08
to

"The Medway Handyman" <davi...@nospamblueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:SiMek.26639$E41....@text.news.virginmedia.com...

Ah, Pikeys of Kent rather than Kentish Pikeys then? :o)


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)


Andy Hall

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Jul 15, 2008, 3:09:46 AM7/15/08
to

Makes it sound almost like a respectable department store. Maybe they
will be opening a factory outlet at Bluewater.


Andy Hall

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Jul 15, 2008, 3:16:13 AM7/15/08
to

OK, so it seems that the £50/year is to cover the admin and
documentation of what you do plus to set a line that is supposed to
make it worth it for regular but not occasional users.

Getting customers to get a small skip is not a bad idea because often
people have extra stuff that they would like to dump but which hasn't
justified a skip.

Even so, I take your point about fly tipping.


Bob Mannix

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Jul 15, 2008, 3:27:32 AM7/15/08
to

"Andy Hall" <an...@hall.nospam> wrote in message news:487c4ebd@qaanaaq...
I never cease to be amazed that that after charges are introduced for
rubbish tipping, authorities seemed *suprised* and hurt that the great
British public take to fly tipping. If you don't want fly tipping (or have
very little) you have to tax at source and make the tips free. Charges =
mattresses in the ditch, the same as night follows day. I was out for a
cycle the other day and passed a little layby by a wood just out of town,
wherein was standing an entire shop freezer cabinet about 2x2m. Cross about
it? - yes. Suprised? - no. Just because (perhaps) the polluter *should* pay
and we *should* dump less won't change human nature.

Andy Hall

unread,
Jul 15, 2008, 3:46:04 AM7/15/08
to
On 2008-07-15 08:27:32 +0100, "Bob Mannix" <b1o...@mannix.org.uk> said:
>> take your point about fly tipping.
>>
> I never cease to be amazed that that after charges are introduced for
> rubbish tipping, authorities seemed *suprised* and hurt that the great
> British public take to fly tipping. If you don't want fly tipping (or have
> very little) you have to tax at source and make the tips free.

It does seem so. Perhaps it should be related to the goods. e.g. we
know that the shop freezer cabinet is going to be dumped in a few
years, so front end load the tax at point of distribution or sale.

Either that, or a fraction of a percent on VAT.


> Charges =
> mattresses in the ditch, the same as night follows day. I was out for a
> cycle the other day and passed a little layby by a wood just out of town,
> wherein was standing an entire shop freezer cabinet about 2x2m. Cross about
> it? - yes. Suprised? - no. Just because (perhaps) the polluter *should* pay
> and we *should* dump less won't change human nature.

Even these measures won't stop somebody who is going to dump at the
roadside because the tip is too far away or he doesn't want to queue or
deal with the difficult people often encountered at these places.


Rod

unread,
Jul 15, 2008, 3:48:21 AM7/15/08
to
Andy Hall wrote:
<>
>
> Getting customers to get a small skip is not a bad idea because often
> people have extra stuff that they would like to dump but which hasn't
> justified a skip.
>

Skips are fine if you have your own space (we do). But there is all
sorts to consider and pay if that is not possible, especially if it
needs to be retained overnight or longer or you live on a narrow road...

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
<www.thyromind.info> <www.thyroiduk.org> <www.altsupportthyroid.org>

The Natural Philosopher

unread,
Jul 15, 2008, 3:50:46 AM7/15/08
to
But at least it means that someone else can load it up and take it to
the tip thereafter without paying through the nose.

Andrew Gabriel

unread,
Jul 15, 2008, 4:21:30 AM7/15/08
to
In article <UaRek.26929$E41....@text.news.virginmedia.com>,

"The Medway Handyman" <davi...@nospamblueyonder.co.uk> writes:
> Andy Hall wrote:
>> On 2008-07-15 00:03:46 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
>> <davi...@nospamblueyonder.co.uk> said:
>>>>>>
>>>>> Oh tee hee. NO COMMERCIAL VERHICLES states the large sign next to
>>>>> the height barrier...
>>>>
>>>> So don't they have a separate area with weighbridges for commercial
>>>> users? Weigh on the way in, weigh on the way out is the way. Then
>>>> you pay
>>>
>>> Not in any of my local tips no. Getting rid of my old dishwasher is
>>> not trade waste anyway, why should I pay to get rid of it? I
>>> already pay piggin council tak.
>>
>> OK, but that aside, what are you meant to do with trade waste?
>
> Dunno actually, I have no intention of shelling out £300 + a year for a
> waste transfer license.

Reminds me of the saga with car batteries. For years, those who sold
them would take the old ones and pass them back up the chain to the
manufacturers. They used to get something like 70% of the old batteries
back which they recycled. There was no payment through the chain for
this AFAIK. Then came regulation on disposal (of lead, I think).
Government decided that it had to have a paper trail for each returned
battery to ensure they weren't being dumped. At the stroke of a pen,
the recycling rate plumitted, as there were now forms to obtain, fill
in, and offences committed if you didn't. So the chain just stopped
taking them back and they mostly went into landfill.

Andy Burns

unread,
Jul 15, 2008, 4:32:42 AM7/15/08
to
On 15/07/2008 09:21, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

> Reminds me of the saga with car batteries. For years, those who sold
> them would take the old ones and pass them back up the chain to the
> manufacturers. They used to get something like 70% of the old batteries
> back which they recycled. There was no payment through the chain for
> this AFAIK. Then came regulation on disposal (of lead, I think).
> Government decided that it had to have a paper trail for each returned
> battery to ensure they weren't being dumped. At the stroke of a pen,
> the recycling rate plumitted, as there were now forms to obtain, fill
> in, and offences committed if you didn't. So the chain just stopped
> taking them back and they mostly went into landfill.

Recently I've replaced a couple of UPS batteries, I took the old ones in
to a local supplier to get the correct replacement, they were quite keen
to take the old ones.

Rod

unread,
Jul 15, 2008, 4:39:42 AM7/15/08
to

For rodinary household batteries we are asked to recycle them (by the
council as well as urged by many 'green' organisations). But the only
place is the local tip - several miles, uphill, from here.

Ok - so store them. But honestly, I do not want a pile of festering,
possibly leaky, batteries anywhere. And I do not go to the dump often
enough to avoid the festering pile of piles.

The ideal would be for things like these to be recyclable at any shop
that sells batteries. Just drop them in when I go shopping or for a walk
round the block.

sm_jamieson

unread,
Jul 15, 2008, 4:53:00 AM7/15/08
to

Our council just charges 25 quid per month to have it on the road. It
is always arranged by the skip companies.
Simon.

dennis@home

unread,
Jul 15, 2008, 5:09:30 AM7/15/08
to

"somebody" <in...@somewhere.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8V7gcl3u...@somewhere.co.uk...


> In message <mXQek.26920$E41....@text.news.virginmedia.com>, The Medway
> Handyman <davi...@nospamblueyonder.co.uk> writes
>>Andy Hall wrote:
>>>
>>> So don't they have a separate area with weighbridges for commercial
>>> users? Weigh on the way in, weigh on the way out is the way. Then
>>> you pay
>>
>>Not in any of my local tips no. Getting rid of my old dishwasher is not
>>trade waste anyway, why should I pay to get rid of it? I already pay
>>piggin
>>council tak.
>>
>
> Absolutely right Dave, why pay twice? Round this way the bloody jobsworths
> at the tip do their job so well that I won't even bother turning up on a
> Sunday when the height barriers are removed.

There are two ways to run a council..
collect tax for services most people use and charge extra for the ones a few
use
or
collect tax for everything.

From your words I assume you want to pay more tax and have free tip charges.

You could stand as a candidate with a manifesto for increasing the taxes and
see if your view is supported by others.

Hugo Nebula

unread,
Jul 15, 2008, 5:30:34 AM7/15/08
to
On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 19:45:06 +0100, a particular chimpanzee, Owain
<owain...@stirlingcity.coo.uk> randomly hit the keyboard and
produced:

>I'm not quite sure why Medway trading standards require criminal records
>checks through Disclosure Scotland, though, and not the English equivalent.

From my limited reading of the workings of the CRB: There are three
standards of checks; enhanced, standard & basic. Enhanced is for
people working closely with children & vulnerable adults (teachers,
care home staff, etc), and requires disclosure of not just any
offences, but rumour & innuendo known to the police; Standard is for
those whose job brings them into contact with children & vulnerable
adults as part of their job as well as certain legal and financial
professions, and requires all convictions to be disclosed, unspent as
well as spent. Basic disclosure is unspent convictions only.

The CRB in England can just about cope with the numbers for Enhanced &
Standard disclosures, but can't cope with any for Basic checks. It
sounds like they're contracting it out to the Scottish CRB.

The sooner England declares itself independent of the UK and joins
Scotland, the better.
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have you strayed?"

Andrew Gabriel

unread,
Jul 15, 2008, 5:32:38 AM7/15/08
to
In article <6e362fF...@mid.individual.net>,

Rod <poly...@ntlworld.com> writes:
>
> For rodinary household batteries we are asked to recycle them (by the
> council as well as urged by many 'green' organisations). But the only
> place is the local tip - several miles, uphill, from here.
>
> Ok - so store them. But honestly, I do not want a pile of festering,
> possibly leaky, batteries anywhere. And I do not go to the dump often
> enough to avoid the festering pile of piles.
>
> The ideal would be for things like these to be recyclable at any shop
> that sells batteries. Just drop them in when I go shopping or for a walk
> round the block.

Councils are legally obliged to stop batteries going into landfill
in the near future (can't recall the date), and I think that's already
the case for NiCds. Ours were talking about providing prepay envelopes
to post them off somewhere, but I haven't heard what the current plans
are.

Rod

unread,
Jul 15, 2008, 6:03:09 AM7/15/08
to
sm_jamieson wrote:
> On 15 Jul, 08:48, Rod <polygo...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> Andy Hall wrote:
>>
>> <>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Getting customers to get a small skip is not a bad idea because often
>>> people have extra stuff that they would like to dump but which hasn't
>>> justified a skip.
>> Skips are fine if you have your own space (we do). But there is all
>> sorts to consider and pay if that is not possible, especially if it
>> needs to be retained overnight or longer or you live on a narrow road...
>>
>
> Our council just charges 25 quid per month to have it on the road. It
> is always arranged by the skip companies.
> Simon.

Just had a look at a local skip hire place. Extracts below. Works out a
lot of money for a pretty small amount of waste. With the additional
hazarding of £100 for the lights/comes you could need to pay £265.75 up
front. Against just £105.75 if on own property. Makes it a real
incentive to do the 'right thing'. Not.


"2 Yard (Mini Skip) 1.9m x 1.3m x 0.9m £90 + VAT (£105.75)
4 Yard (Midi Skip) 2.59m x 1.67m x 1.14m £120 + VAT (£141.00)

If you must have your skip put on a public road then we are afraid there
are some additional costs.

* £30 administration fee if you want us to arrange the permit
* £???? Whatever your local highways charge us for the permit
(usually between £0 & £30)

Arranging the permit can take upto 10 working days so please ensure you
book in advance.

All skips on the roads need to have a light positioned on each corner
and be surrounded by traffic cones. We can supply these free of charge
however there will be a £100 returnable deposit with the order and a £35
charge per item for any that are missing on collection of the skip."

Frank Erskine

unread,
Jul 15, 2008, 8:00:49 AM7/15/08
to
On 15 Jul 2008 09:32:38 GMT, and...@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:

>Councils are legally obliged to stop batteries going into landfill
>in the near future (can't recall the date), and I think that's already
>the case for NiCds. Ours were talking about providing prepay envelopes
>to post them off somewhere, but I haven't heard what the current plans
>are.

Our local council once started a scheme whereby you could hand in
batteries to almost any council building - libraries for example.

The idea lasted approximately a week...

I think the libararians etc. got a bit pi$$ed off having to handle
peoples' junk.

--
Frank Erskine

Message has been deleted

Rod

unread,
Jul 15, 2008, 8:48:16 AM7/15/08
to
m...@privacy.net wrote:
> On 15 Jul,
> Rod <poly...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>> For rodinary household batteries we are asked to recycle them (by the
>> council as well as urged by many 'green' organisations). But the only
>> place is the local tip - several miles, uphill, from here.
>
> Our council recycles them.

>
>> Ok - so store them.
>
> We do, for up to a fortnight (or longer if not leaking, and the bag
> (fastened to the nitice board in the kitchen by two drawing pins) is not too
> heavy, in a small bag provided by the council.

>
>> But honestly, I do not want a pile of festering, possibly leaky, batteries
>> anywhere. And I do not go to the dump often enough to avoid the festering
>> pile of piles.
>
>
>
>> The ideal would be for things like these to be recyclable at any shop that
>> sells batteries. Just drop them in when I go shopping or for a walk round
>> the block.
>
> We find the system here as good as any, they go out with the other
> recyclables in the fortnightly collection. We don't have to remember to take
> them back to the shop. If the small bag gets too heavy to stay put on the
> notice board it goes in the recycle box, and is substituted by a new one.
>

Sounds OK. I thought take them back to *any* shop that sells batteries
might be workable. And, if needed, some sort of behind the scenes
mechanism so the local shop that sells 100 but gets 10,000 doesn't
subsidise B&Q selling 100,000 but only getting back 100.

And, while on the subject, bloomin' old/used white spirit. Really don't
know where to take that.

Man at B&Q

unread,
Jul 15, 2008, 8:58:12 AM7/15/08
to
On Jul 15, 10:09 am, "dennis@home" <den...@killspam.kicks-ass.net>
wrote:
> "somebody" <i...@somewhere.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> news:8V7gcl3u...@somewhere.co.uk...
>
>
>
> > In message <mXQek.26920$E41.9...@text.news.virginmedia.com>, The Medway
> > Handyman <davidl...@nospamblueyonder.co.uk> writes

> >>Andy Hall wrote:
>
> >>> So don't they have a separate area with weighbridges for commercial
> >>> users?   Weigh on the way in, weigh on the way out is the way.  Then
> >>> you pay
>
> >>Not in any of my local tips no.  Getting rid of my old dishwasher is not
> >>trade waste anyway, why should I pay to get rid of it?  I already pay
> >>piggin
> >>council tak.
>
> > Absolutely right Dave, why pay twice? Round this way the bloody jobsworths
> > at the tip do their job so well that I won't even bother turning up on a
> > Sunday when the height barriers are removed.
>
> There are two ways to run a council..
> collect tax for services most people use and charge extra for the ones a few
> use
> or
> collect tax for everything.
>
> From your words I assume you want to pay more tax and have free tip charges.
>
> You could stand as a candidate with a manifesto for increasing the taxes and
> see if your view is supported by others.

So did taxes go down when they introduced the charges? No - so why
should they go up if the charges (and all the associated pen pushers)
are scrapped.

MBQ

Man at B&Q

unread,
Jul 15, 2008, 9:06:41 AM7/15/08
to

The ideal would be to use rechargeables. Since investing in a good
charger and NiMH cells, the only primary cells used in our household
are for watches, cycle computers and BIOS backup in the PCs (but I've
never had one of those fail before the PC was replaced).

MBQ

Message has been deleted

Tim S

unread,
Jul 15, 2008, 10:47:52 AM7/15/08
to
m...@privacy.net coughed up some electrons that declared:

> On 15 Jul,
> Rod <poly...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>> And, while on the subject, bloomin' old/used white spirit. Really don't
>> know where to take that.
>

> It helps to keep the weeds down.
>

Good use. With any highly volatile waste solvent (eg dirty white spirit or
petrol used for cleaning machine parts, I just chuck it over some concrete
and let it evaporate off. If it's really filthy, I do the same over a load
of old newspaper and bin it when it's dry.

Got rid of a load of half dead gloss paint the same way (skip operators
don't like lots of cans of liquid paint).

Fire risk notwithstanding...

Cheers

Tim

Adrian C

unread,
Jul 15, 2008, 10:49:33 AM7/15/08
to
Frank Erskine wrote:

(smoking seems to be a normal trait by EVERYBODY in the pseudo
> building trade) as well as electricians).

Gas fitters?

--
Adrian C

Hugo Nebula

unread,
Jul 15, 2008, 1:42:33 PM7/15/08
to
On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 10:09:30 +0100, a particular chimpanzee,
"dennis@home" <den...@killspam.kicks-ass.net> randomly hit the
keyboard and produced:

>There are two ways to run a council..


>collect tax for services most people use and charge extra for the ones a few
>use
>or
>collect tax for everything.

Or the Government's (of all hues) preferred strategy: Collect tax up
to the capping limit (which is held artificially low to avoid
headlines & pensioners protesting), and hike up charges and fines to
almost everyone.

The Medway Handyman

unread,
Jul 15, 2008, 2:30:25 PM7/15/08
to
Frank Erskine wrote:

> On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 17:47:30 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
> <davi...@nospamblueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Howard Neil wrote:
>>> The Medway Handyman wrote:
>>>
>>>> I told her not to bother, the pikeys would get it before the
>>>> council did. Sure enough, 8:15 this morning a large tattooed bloke
>>>> rang the doorbell "alright if we take the dishwasher guv?". By
>>>> 8:20 it was gone. Pikey Express have obviously opened a branch in
>>>> this area :-)
>>>>
>>>> Can't beat that for service!
>>>
>>> He knocked and asked if he could take it? That doesn't sound much
>>> like pikeys. Or have they got a new code of conduct? ;-)
>>
>> I think we are getting a better class of pikey here in Kent...
>
> I had my kitchen refitted a few months ago by a local kitchen firm who
> subcontracted to a decent outfit (apart from them smoking as they
> worked (smoking seems to be a normal trait by EVERYBODY in the pseudo

> building trade) as well as electricians).

I would never smoke in a clients house unless invited to. I will smoke in a
clients garden, fag ends are deposited in a tin to avoid litter.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk


The Medway Handyman

unread,
Jul 15, 2008, 2:34:30 PM7/15/08
to
Andy Hall wrote:
> On 2008-07-15 00:20:20 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"

> <davi...@nospamblueyonder.co.uk> said:
>
>> Andy Hall wrote:
>>> On 2008-07-15 00:03:46 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
>>> <davi...@nospamblueyonder.co.uk> said:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh tee hee. NO COMMERCIAL VERHICLES states the large sign next
>>>>>> to the height barrier...
>>>>>
>>>>> So don't they have a separate area with weighbridges for
>>>>> commercial users? Weigh on the way in, weigh on the way out is
>>>>> the way. Then you pay
>>>>
>>>> Not in any of my local tips no. Getting rid of my old dishwasher
>>>> is not trade waste anyway, why should I pay to get rid of it? I
>>>> already pay piggin council tak.
>>>
>>> OK, but that aside, what are you meant to do with trade waste?
>>
>> Dunno actually, I have no intention of shelling out £300 + a year
>> for a waste transfer license.
>>
>> I think there is a tip about 10 miles away for trade waste, never
>> been there.
>
> So you need a license for that and pay charges on top? Stuff that,
> as you say.
>
> I suppose it does mean that your punters are left having to dump the
> waste which is a shame.

It certainly is. I'm service orientated, customer friendly, so it is a
shame. I don't do many jobs big enough to generate much waste, but when I
do I make it clear that I can't take the waste away & suggest various
options.

Hippo Bags have their place, clients like them, don't mind the poor £ per
kilo ratio. Easy to keep in the front garden, easy for the lorry to lift
over the garden wall.

Andy Champ

unread,
Jul 15, 2008, 2:53:04 PM7/15/08
to
The Medway Handyman wrote:
>
> Oh tee hee. NO COMMERCIAL VERHICLES states the large sign next to the
> height barrier...
>
>

Get some paper. Stick "Hertz" over your name.

My local tip let me dump a dead fridge FOC from a rental van - even
though I had to go down to the commercial bit to do it, as there's a
height limit.

Andy

The Medway Handyman

unread,
Jul 15, 2008, 2:53:58 PM7/15/08
to
dennis@home wrote:
> "somebody" <in...@somewhere.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:8V7gcl3u...@somewhere.co.uk...
>> In message <mXQek.26920$E41....@text.news.virginmedia.com>, The
>> Medway Handyman <davi...@nospamblueyonder.co.uk> writes
>>> Andy Hall wrote:
>>>>
>>>> So don't they have a separate area with weighbridges for commercial
>>>> users? Weigh on the way in, weigh on the way out is the way. Then you
>>>> pay
>>>
>>> Not in any of my local tips no. Getting rid of my old dishwasher
>>> is not trade waste anyway, why should I pay to get rid of it? I
>>> already pay piggin
>>> council tak.
>>>
>>
>> Absolutely right Dave, why pay twice? Round this way the bloody
>> jobsworths at the tip do their job so well that I won't even bother
>> turning up on a Sunday when the height barriers are removed.
>
> There are two ways to run a council..
> collect tax for services most people use and charge extra for the
> ones a few use
> or
> collect tax for everything.
>
> From your words I assume you want to pay more tax and have free tip
> charges.

Trust you to miss the point.

I'm already paying council tax for use of the tip. I can't take my domestic
waste there simply because I drive a van. I'm not asking to tip trade waste
free.

I couldn't use my people carrier either because the height barrier is too
low.

The Medway Handyman

unread,
Jul 15, 2008, 3:01:23 PM7/15/08
to
Hugo Nebula wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 10:09:30 +0100, a particular chimpanzee,
> "dennis@home" <den...@killspam.kicks-ass.net> randomly hit the
> keyboard and produced:
>
>> There are two ways to run a council..
>> collect tax for services most people use and charge extra for the
>> ones a few use
>> or
>> collect tax for everything.
>
> Or the Government's (of all hues) preferred strategy: Collect tax up
> to the capping limit (which is held artificially low to avoid
> headlines & pensioners protesting), and hike up charges and fines to
> almost everyone.

Like, for example Medway Council making £4 million from parking charges &
fines in a year. Car parks charge until 10pm, Sats & Suns included and
stating publicly that they won't accept any reason to cancel a parking
charge.

Frank Erskine

unread,
Jul 15, 2008, 3:05:22 PM7/15/08
to
On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 19:53:04 +0100, Andy Champ <no....@nospam.com>
wrote:

Won't they collect items?
My LA will collect bulky items (even scrap cars!) FOC, up to a limit
of, ISTR, four or five a year.

--
Frank Erskine

The Medway Handyman

unread,
Jul 15, 2008, 4:13:01 PM7/15/08
to

They will - eventualy. Last time I tried it was a three piece suite, they
said it would take 10 -14 days. Didn't feel like leaving it on the drive
for that long, so I paid a guy in a van.