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Is RCD/RCBO mandatory for electric shower?
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Lee
Apr 27, 2012, 8:08:17 AM4/27/12
to
Quick question, instead of replacing like-for-like, I'd like to upgrade
a 7.5kW shower to 9.5kW, obviously got to change the cable from 6mm to
10mm so this then becomes a "new" install.
Is RCD/RCBO protection now mandatory?
Lee
a 7.5kW shower to 9.5kW, obviously got to change the cable from 6mm to
10mm so this then becomes a "new" install.
Is RCD/RCBO protection now mandatory?
Lee
John Rumm
Apr 27, 2012, 8:36:45 AM4/27/12
to
On 27/04/2012 13:08, Lee wrote:
> Quick question, instead of replacing like-for-like, I'd like to upgrade
> a 7.5kW shower to 9.5kW, obviously got to change the cable from 6mm to
> 10mm so this then becomes a "new" install.
Depending on the length, and how the cable is routed, there are
> Quick question, instead of replacing like-for-like, I'd like to upgrade
> a 7.5kW shower to 9.5kW, obviously got to change the cable from 6mm to
> 10mm so this then becomes a "new" install.
circumstances where the 6mm^2 cable will still be adequate. It will
depend on the details, but the current carrying capacity of 6mm^2 can be
as much as 47A (and your load is 41A)
> Is RCD/RCBO protection now mandatory?
is very common. However if the cable run is "unprotected" (i.e. cables
not enclosed in an earthed metal screen, and its buried in a wall at a
depth of less than 50mm), then it would need an RCD to comply with the
requirements for cable protection.
[1] Although main and supplementary equipotential bonding will need to
be present and to an adequate standard, and you will need to verify the
circuit design by calculation.
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Installing_an_electric_shower
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Calculating_A_Cable_Size
--
Cheers,
John.
/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/
Lee
Apr 27, 2012, 9:52:39 AM4/27/12
to
On 27/04/2012 13:36, John Rumm wrote:
<snip>
The run of 6mm is roughly 10m, just seems a bit too near its limit for
me, iyswim.
>> Is RCD/RCBO protection now mandatory?
>
> Not because its a shower as such[1], although fitting one for a shower
> is very common. However if the cable run is "unprotected" (i.e. cables
> not enclosed in an earthed metal screen, and its buried in a wall at a
> depth of less than 50mm), then it would need an RCD to comply with the
> requirements for cable protection.
Main reason for asking was that it's currently protected by a fuse
rather than MCB and I was a little concerned by the possible disconnect
time in case of a fault. Have to check the cable route before going further.
If a wanted to add an RCBO in an enclosure, is there a way it is
permissible to do it from the existing fuseway in the CU or does it
*have* to be done as an additional CU with Henley blocks? If the latter,
I think I'd prefer to get someone else to do it and sign it off.
Lee
<snip>
The run of 6mm is roughly 10m, just seems a bit too near its limit for
me, iyswim.
>> Is RCD/RCBO protection now mandatory?
>
> Not because its a shower as such[1], although fitting one for a shower
> is very common. However if the cable run is "unprotected" (i.e. cables
> not enclosed in an earthed metal screen, and its buried in a wall at a
> depth of less than 50mm), then it would need an RCD to comply with the
> requirements for cable protection.
rather than MCB and I was a little concerned by the possible disconnect
time in case of a fault. Have to check the cable route before going further.
If a wanted to add an RCBO in an enclosure, is there a way it is
permissible to do it from the existing fuseway in the CU or does it
*have* to be done as an additional CU with Henley blocks? If the latter,
I think I'd prefer to get someone else to do it and sign it off.
Lee
Lee
Apr 27, 2012, 10:27:33 AM4/27/12
to
Ok, so having read through the links I can fit an enclosed RCBO via an
existing fuseway and on balance this seems an eminently sensible thing
to do.
Now, assuming the routing of the cable is ok and the thermal rating is
not exceeded, does using an RCBO mean that 6mm cable would have a
sufficient disconnect time?
I still think I'd be happier uprating the cable to 10mm though :)
Lee
John Rumm
Apr 27, 2012, 10:55:24 AM4/27/12
to
On 27/04/2012 15:27, Lee wrote:
> Ok, so having read through the links I can fit an enclosed RCBO via an
> existing fuseway and on balance this seems an eminently sensible thing
> to do.
If hanging off an existing fuse, then there is no need for a RCBO (i.e.
> Ok, so having read through the links I can fit an enclosed RCBO via an
> existing fuseway and on balance this seems an eminently sensible thing
> to do.
combined RCD and fuse in effect), and an additional RCD would be enough.
> Now, assuming the routing of the cable is ok and the thermal rating is
> not exceeded, does using an RCBO mean that 6mm cable would have a
> sufficient disconnect time?
However is preferable to design where you can such that it would comply
even without it. You sometimes also need to consider the disconnect time
in the case of a L to N fault, but generally, if its ok on L to E faults
then it will be ok on that as well.
> I still think I'd be happier uprating the cable to 10mm though :)
To start with we need to know:
Details of how the cable is routed - i.e. in a chase plastered into a
wall etc?
The total length of cable.
What type of fuse is there currently - rewireable or cartridge fuse?
And if you know it, your earth loop impedance (if your metre has been
changed in the last few years this may be written onto a label near or
on it - it would say something like "ELI: 0.3 ohms"). If you don't know
that, then what type of earthing[1] arrangement have you got? (so we can
assume the nominal worst case values).
[1] You can use the details and pictures here to work out which:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Earthing_Types
(chances are its likely to be TN-S or TN-C-S unless you are out in the
sticks a bit)
BruceB
Apr 27, 2012, 10:58:34 AM4/27/12
to
In article <LuidndEQkMNDDwfS...@brightview.co.uk>,
see.my.s...@nowhere.null says...
>
> > Is RCD/RCBO protection now mandatory?
>
> Not because its a shower as such[1], although fitting one for a shower
> is very common. However if the cable run is "unprotected" (i.e. cables
> not enclosed in an earthed metal screen, and its buried in a wall at a
> depth of less than 50mm), then it would need an RCD to comply with the
> requirements for cable protection.
>
I believe that is wrong now.
If you replace the cable with a larger one then the work you have done
has to comply with the current regulations which require an rcd for
every circuit in a room with a bath or shower.
see.my.s...@nowhere.null says...
>
> > Is RCD/RCBO protection now mandatory?
>
> Not because its a shower as such[1], although fitting one for a shower
> is very common. However if the cable run is "unprotected" (i.e. cables
> not enclosed in an earthed metal screen, and its buried in a wall at a
> depth of less than 50mm), then it would need an RCD to comply with the
> requirements for cable protection.
>
If you replace the cable with a larger one then the work you have done
has to comply with the current regulations which require an rcd for
every circuit in a room with a bath or shower.
BruceB
Apr 27, 2012, 11:02:35 AM4/27/12
to
In article <MPG.2a04c4765...@news.eternal-september.org>,
n...@nul.com says...
It is regulation 701.411.3.3
n...@nul.com says...
Lee
Apr 27, 2012, 11:25:10 AM4/27/12
to
On 27/04/2012 15:55, John Rumm wrote:
> If hanging off an existing fuse, then there is no need for a RCBO (i.e.
> combined RCD and fuse in effect), and an additional RCD would be enough.
Sorry typo, meant RCD ;)
> If hanging off an existing fuse, then there is no need for a RCBO (i.e.
> combined RCD and fuse in effect), and an additional RCD would be enough.
>
> If you can furnish some details, we can work through the checks and see...
>
Lee
Fredxx
Apr 27, 2012, 11:37:02 AM4/27/12
to
ARWadsworth
Apr 27, 2012, 11:38:27 AM4/27/12
to
manual that does not require the use of an RCD for the shower.
--
Adam
ARWadsworth
Apr 27, 2012, 11:55:35 AM4/27/12
to
bathroom if the new shower is integrated with the existing supplementary
bonding.
--
Adam
BruceB
Apr 27, 2012, 12:29:54 PM4/27/12
to
In article <jnefhp$j9q$1...@dont-email.me>, adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk
says...
Can you say why you think that and give an authority. All new work has
to comply with *current* regulations. I cannot see how this long after
the introduction of the 17th edition you can elect to use the 16th (or
15th, 14th, 13th etc) edition.
However I would agree with you if you were just changing the shower
unit, but not if you are doing any work on the circuit.
says...
to comply with *current* regulations. I cannot see how this long after
the introduction of the 17th edition you can elect to use the 16th (or
15th, 14th, 13th etc) edition.
However I would agree with you if you were just changing the shower
unit, but not if you are doing any work on the circuit.
John Rumm
Apr 27, 2012, 12:47:30 PM4/27/12
to
if also changing the cable or installing a new circuit. If just changing
the shower, on the same cable (assuming the circuit as a whole is
adequate) then you would not necessarily need to add the RCD for that
reason. Note however that many shower manufacturers instructions will
mandate the use of a RCD anyway.
Tim Watts
Apr 27, 2012, 12:58:25 PM4/27/12
to
cable/circuit would consitute a new circuit - meaning the current regs
apply.
In any case, RCD protection for bathroom circuits is an eminently sensible
idea - and there are ways to do this even if the CU cannot conveniently take
an RCBO for that "way" - eg add a 30mA RCD in a little box after the CU at a
convenient location.
--
Tim Watts
Tim Watts
Apr 27, 2012, 12:59:34 PM4/27/12
to
device (fuse/MCB) to a higher current? If so, that is no longer replacing
like with like.
--
Tim Watts
NT
Apr 27, 2012, 1:48:32 PM4/27/12
to
On Apr 27, 1:36 pm, John Rumm <see.my.signat...@nowhere.null> wrote:
> On 27/04/2012 13:08, Lee wrote:
>
> > Quick question, instead of replacing like-for-like, I'd like to upgrade
> > a 7.5kW shower to 9.5kW, obviously got to change the cable from 6mm to
> > 10mm so this then becomes a "new" install.
>
> Depending on the length, and how the cable is routed, there are
> circumstances where the 6mm^2 cable will still be adequate. It will
> depend on the details, but the current carrying capacity of 6mm^2 can be
> as much as 47A (and your load is 41A)
>
> > Is RCD/RCBO protection now mandatory?
>
> Not because its a shower as such[1], although fitting one for a shower
> is very common. However if the cable run is "unprotected" (i.e. cables
> not enclosed in an earthed metal screen, and its buried in a wall at a
> depth of less than 50mm), then it would need an RCD to comply with the
> requirements for cable protection.
>
> [1] Although main and supplementary equipotential bonding will need to
> be present and to an adequate standard, and you will need to verify the
> circuit design by calculation.
>
> http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Installing_an_electric_shower
>
> http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Calculating_A_Cable_Size
I may well be mistaken here. I thought that if the OP only replaces
> On 27/04/2012 13:08, Lee wrote:
>
> > Quick question, instead of replacing like-for-like, I'd like to upgrade
> > a 7.5kW shower to 9.5kW, obviously got to change the cable from 6mm to
> > 10mm so this then becomes a "new" install.
>
> Depending on the length, and how the cable is routed, there are
> circumstances where the 6mm^2 cable will still be adequate. It will
> depend on the details, but the current carrying capacity of 6mm^2 can be
> as much as 47A (and your load is 41A)
>
> > Is RCD/RCBO protection now mandatory?
>
> Not because its a shower as such[1], although fitting one for a shower
> is very common. However if the cable run is "unprotected" (i.e. cables
> not enclosed in an earthed metal screen, and its buried in a wall at a
> depth of less than 50mm), then it would need an RCD to comply with the
> requirements for cable protection.
>
> [1] Although main and supplementary equipotential bonding will need to
> be present and to an adequate standard, and you will need to verify the
> circuit design by calculation.
>
> http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Installing_an_electric_shower
>
> http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Calculating_A_Cable_Size
the shower, then its not a new circuit, only a new appliance, and thus
doesn't need 'up'grading to the 17th edition requirements.
NT
ARWadsworth
Apr 27, 2012, 1:52:05 PM4/27/12
to
description of what you can do:-).
A new shower circuit would need to be RCD protected as per 701.411.3.3 and
meet the 17th edition regs (as you said)
Let's not throw reg nos at each other and find a way to agree or disagree
and hopefully help other learn.
I am suggesting (and I was not clear about that) that a new electric shower
could be installed using the 17th edition requirements into an existing 16th
edition bathroom setup without having to RCD all the existing circuits in
the bathroom if you extend the existing supplementary bonding into the new
shower circuit.
--
Adam
Peter Crosland
Apr 27, 2012, 3:19:27 PM4/27/12
to
On 27/04/2012 13:08, Lee wrote:
appropriate protection.
Peter Crosland
Adam Funk
Apr 27, 2012, 3:38:53 PM4/27/12
to
On 2012-04-27, ARWadsworth wrote:
> Let's not throw reg nos at each other and find a way to agree or disagree
> and hopefully help other learn.
You crazy radical!
> Let's not throw reg nos at each other and find a way to agree or disagree
> and hopefully help other learn.
Adam Funk
Apr 27, 2012, 3:45:34 PM4/27/12
to
electric shower even if the regulations and manufacturers'
instructions didn't require it.
BruceB
Apr 27, 2012, 5:28:55 PM4/27/12
to
In article <jnemc7$rsu$1...@dont-email.me>, adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk
says...
>
> Lets start again just in case I jumped the gun or just fucked up in my
> description of what you can do:-).
>
> A new shower circuit would need to be RCD protected as per 701.411.3.3 and
> meet the 17th edition regs (as you said)
>
>
> Let's not throw reg nos at each other and find a way to agree or
> disagree and hopefully help other learn.
>
> I am suggesting (and I was not clear about that) that a new electric
> shower could be installed using the 17th edition requirements into an
> existing 16th edition bathroom setup without having to RCD all the
> existing circuits in the bathroom if you extend the existing
> supplementary bonding into the new shower circuit.
Not trying to pick a fight - I know you know your stuff.
I am being pedantic about the regs here rather than saying what might
*do* for safety, but surely once you modify the shower circuit at all,
then that part of the circuit you modify has to be brought up to 17th
compliance, which includes an rcd (for that circuit rather than all
circuits). There is no exception to the reg requiring an rcd on a
circuit in a shower room.
says...
>
> Lets start again just in case I jumped the gun or just fucked up in my
> description of what you can do:-).
>
> A new shower circuit would need to be RCD protected as per 701.411.3.3 and
> meet the 17th edition regs (as you said)
>
>
> Let's not throw reg nos at each other and find a way to agree or
> disagree and hopefully help other learn.
>
> I am suggesting (and I was not clear about that) that a new electric
> shower could be installed using the 17th edition requirements into an
> existing 16th edition bathroom setup without having to RCD all the
> existing circuits in the bathroom if you extend the existing
> supplementary bonding into the new shower circuit.
I am being pedantic about the regs here rather than saying what might
*do* for safety, but surely once you modify the shower circuit at all,
then that part of the circuit you modify has to be brought up to 17th
compliance, which includes an rcd (for that circuit rather than all
circuits). There is no exception to the reg requiring an rcd on a
circuit in a shower room.
John Rumm
Apr 27, 2012, 6:48:44 PM4/27/12
to
device) then yup agreed. However I believe that straight swap of just
the shower unit onto an installation that complied with the 16th edition
requirements (but did not include a RCD) would also be acceptable
(assuming the fitting instructions don't mandate a RCD).
Having said that, for a shower, I would fit a RCD as a matter of course
if it did not have one.
ARWadsworth
Apr 28, 2012, 12:20:33 AM4/28/12
to
We are in argreement.
--
Adam
ARWadsworth
Apr 28, 2012, 12:22:42 AM4/28/12
to
with them but debate. It's bellends like dennis that I abuse.
--
Adam
Tim Watts
Apr 28, 2012, 6:33:25 AM4/28/12
to
;->
--
Tim Watts
Lee
Apr 28, 2012, 1:36:57 PM4/28/12
to
Just to update, I was obviously having brain fade because I totally
failed to notice the RCD that was already sitting there.
Since the existing 6mm was clipped to surface for it's entire 10m length
(runs up the dividing wall then straight in behind the shower unit) and
was already protected by a 40A fuse and 45A DP switch I just thought it
was easier put a 8.5Kw unit in as a "like for like" replacement.
Lee
failed to notice the RCD that was already sitting there.
Since the existing 6mm was clipped to surface for it's entire 10m length
(runs up the dividing wall then straight in behind the shower unit) and
was already protected by a 40A fuse and 45A DP switch I just thought it
was easier put a 8.5Kw unit in as a "like for like" replacement.
Lee
John Rumm
Apr 28, 2012, 2:11:49 PM4/28/12
to
ARWadsworth
Apr 28, 2012, 3:06:43 PM4/28/12
to
--
Adam
Tim Watts
Apr 28, 2012, 5:47:05 PM4/28/12
to
John Rumm wrote:
> On 28/04/2012 11:33, Tim Watts wrote:
>> ARWadsworth wrote:
>>
>>> Adam Funk wrote:
>>>> On 2012-04-27, ARWadsworth wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Let's not throw reg nos at each other and find a way to agree or
>>>>> disagree and hopefully help other learn.
>>>>
>>>> You crazy radical!
>>>
>>> But Bruce is a knowledgeable and intelligent bloke. I prefer not to
>>> fight with them but debate. It's bellends like dennis that I abuse.
>>>
>>
>> I'm ringing the RSPCD...
>>
>> ;->
>
> Royal Soc for the *Promotion* of C to D?
>
>
:->
> On 28/04/2012 11:33, Tim Watts wrote:
>> ARWadsworth wrote:
>>
>>> Adam Funk wrote:
>>>> On 2012-04-27, ARWadsworth wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Let's not throw reg nos at each other and find a way to agree or
>>>>> disagree and hopefully help other learn.
>>>>
>>>> You crazy radical!
>>>
>>> But Bruce is a knowledgeable and intelligent bloke. I prefer not to
>>> fight with them but debate. It's bellends like dennis that I abuse.
>>>
>>
>> I'm ringing the RSPCD...
>>
>> ;->
>
> Royal Soc for the *Promotion* of C to D?
>
>
--
Tim Watts
noel gallagher
Jun 27, 2016, 1:44:03 PM6/27/16
to
replying to Lee, noel gallagher wrote:
i could go into detail what you need to do but unless you are qualified i
strongly recommend you get someone who is to do it.as showers come into
contact with person/s you need protection with a safe disconnection time so an
rcd or rcbo is mandatory.as for cable size ,length of run,where and how is the
cable is run,size of shower come into play also.
--
posted from
http://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy/is-rcd-rcbo-mandatory-for-electric-shower-805516-.htm
i could go into detail what you need to do but unless you are qualified i
strongly recommend you get someone who is to do it.as showers come into
contact with person/s you need protection with a safe disconnection time so an
rcd or rcbo is mandatory.as for cable size ,length of run,where and how is the
cable is run,size of shower come into play also.
--
posted from
http://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy/is-rcd-rcbo-mandatory-for-electric-shower-805516-.htm
Tim Watts
Jun 27, 2016, 1:50:52 PM6/27/16
to
On 27/06/16 18:44, noel gallagher wrote:
> replying to Lee, noel gallagher wrote:
> i could go into detail what you need to do but unless you are qualified i
> strongly recommend you get someone who is to do it.as showers come into
> contact with person/s you need protection with a safe disconnection time
> so an
> rcd or rcbo is mandatory.as for cable size ,length of run,where and how
> is the
> cable is run,size of shower come into play also.
>
It's more or defacto mandatory for any circuit, unless you can bury it
> replying to Lee, noel gallagher wrote:
> i could go into detail what you need to do but unless you are qualified i
> strongly recommend you get someone who is to do it.as showers come into
> contact with person/s you need protection with a safe disconnection time
> so an
> rcd or rcbo is mandatory.as for cable size ,length of run,where and how
> is the
> cable is run,size of shower come into play also.
>
>50mm below the surface or mechanically protect it, or surface run it.
It will also be necessary if you have no supplementary binding in the
bathroom under the 17th.
Mr Pounder Esquire
Jun 27, 2016, 2:55:58 PM6/27/16
to
45 years ago in my first house I fitted and plumbed in a Triton 7KW electric
shower over the bath. The cable went straight down the pipe box and finished
up in the meter cupboard. I was very nervous when I connected the cable to
the electric meter. Nervous is better than saying that I was shit scared.
The meter had fuses. No RCD stuff.
There was no isolation switch for the shower.
I was dead proud of my shower.
I wish that I was 45 years younger.
James Wilkinson
Jun 27, 2016, 3:02:44 PM6/27/16
to
--
Bumper sticker seen on a B-2 Stealth Bomber:
"IF YOU CAN READ THIS, THEN WE WASTED 50 BILLION BUCKS."
Graham.
Jun 27, 2016, 3:31:33 PM6/27/16
to
--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%
Mr Pounder Esquire
Jun 27, 2016, 3:38:59 PM6/27/16
to
Now, take your time, we do understand.
James Wilkinson
Jun 27, 2016, 3:52:09 PM6/27/16
to
--
We used to have Empires run by Emperors.
Then Kingdoms run by Kings.
Now we have Countries.....
James Wilkinson
Jun 27, 2016, 3:53:00 PM6/27/16
to
--
Bigamy is having one wife too many. Monogamy is the same. -- Oscar Wilde
Tim Watts
Jun 27, 2016, 4:25:40 PM6/27/16
to
DerbyBorn
Jun 27, 2016, 4:58:42 PM6/27/16
to
>
> Oh dear!
> 45 years ago in my first house I fitted and plumbed in a Triton 7KW
> electric shower over the bath. The cable went straight down the pipe
> box and finished up in the meter cupboard. I was very nervous when I
> connected the cable to the electric meter. Nervous is better than
> saying that I was shit scared. The meter had fuses. No RCD stuff.
> There was no isolation switch for the shower.
> I was dead proud of my shower.
> I wish that I was 45 years younger.
>
>
>
>
James Wilkinson
Jun 27, 2016, 5:04:30 PM6/27/16
to
--
The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason -- Benjamin Franklin
Tim Watts
Jun 27, 2016, 5:26:07 PM6/27/16
to
James Wilkinson
Jun 27, 2016, 5:36:32 PM6/27/16
to
--
I went to San Francisco. I found someone's heart.
damdu...@yahoo.co.uk
Jun 27, 2016, 5:50:11 PM6/27/16
to
On Mon, 27 Jun 2016 19:55:40 +0100, "Mr Pounder Esquire"
<MrPo...@RationalThought.com> wrote:
>
>Oh dear!
>45 years ago in my first house I fitted and plumbed in a Triton 7KW electric
>shower over the bath. The cable went straight down the pipe box and finished
>up in the meter cupboard. I was very nervous when I connected the cable to
>the electric meter. Nervous is better than saying that I was shit scared.
>The meter had fuses. No RCD stuff.
>There was no isolation switch for the shower.
>I was dead proud of my shower.
>I wish that I was 45 years younger.
Pity that 45 years later you are still describing a consumer unit as a
>
>Oh dear!
>45 years ago in my first house I fitted and plumbed in a Triton 7KW electric
>shower over the bath. The cable went straight down the pipe box and finished
>up in the meter cupboard. I was very nervous when I connected the cable to
>the electric meter. Nervous is better than saying that I was shit scared.
>The meter had fuses. No RCD stuff.
>There was no isolation switch for the shower.
>I was dead proud of my shower.
>I wish that I was 45 years younger.
meter.
G.Harman
John Rumm
Jun 27, 2016, 8:19:02 PM6/27/16
to
On 27/06/2016 18:44, noel gallagher wrote:
> replying to Lee, noel gallagher wrote:
> i could go into detail
Well this is a DIY group, so that is exactly what you need to do.
> replying to Lee, noel gallagher wrote:
> i could go into detail
(unless you just fancy waving your willy?)
Having said that, the original post is over 4 years old, so chances are
its been done now!
> what you need to do but unless you are qualified i
skill.
> strongly recommend you get someone who is to do it.as showers come into
> contact with person/s you need protection with a safe disconnection time
> so an rcd or rcbo is mandatory.
shower, however not for the reason you cite, since its quite possible to
meet the required disconnection times without a RCD in many installations.
> as for cable size ,length of run,where and how
> is the cable is run,size of shower come into play also.
John Rumm
Jun 27, 2016, 8:22:05 PM6/27/16
to
On 27/06/2016 20:02, James Wilkinson wrote:
> Funny how you didn't die. RC whatevers are for pussies.
What is the point of all this secret agent nym shifting, if you are
> Funny how you didn't die. RC whatevers are for pussies.
going to post the same parrot fucker dribblings as usual and blow your
cover?
ARW
Jun 28, 2016, 1:31:19 PM6/28/16
to
"John Rumm" <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote in message
news:7aednVjhseTuX-zK...@brightview.co.uk...
--
Adam
news:7aednVjhseTuX-zK...@brightview.co.uk...
> On 27/06/2016 18:44, noel gallagher wrote:
>
>> replying to Lee, noel gallagher wrote:
>> i could go into detail
>
>
>> replying to Lee, noel gallagher wrote:
>> i could go into detail
>
> Having said that, the original post is over 4 years old, so chances are
> its been done now!
You might be pushing it at that comment:-)
> its been done now!
--
Adam
ARW
Jun 28, 2016, 2:50:26 PM6/28/16
to
<damdu...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4o73nbd9ne420vu80...@4ax.com...
If it had gone wrong and had shit himself and least he could have wiped his
elbow clean with a bit of toilet paper.
--
Adam
news:4o73nbd9ne420vu80...@4ax.com...
elbow clean with a bit of toilet paper.
--
Adam
Mr Pounder Esquire
Jun 28, 2016, 3:51:22 PM6/28/16
to
ARW wrote:
> <damdu...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:4o73nbd9ne420vu80...@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 27 Jun 2016 19:55:40 +0100, "Mr Pounder Esquire"
>> <MrPo...@RationalThought.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Oh dear!
>>> 45 years ago in my first house I fitted and plumbed in a Triton 7KW
>>> electric
>>> shower over the bath. The cable went straight down the pipe box and
>>> finished
>>> up in the meter cupboard. I was very nervous when I connected the
>>> cable to the electric meter. Nervous is better than saying that I
>>> was shit scared. The meter had fuses. No RCD stuff.
>>> There was no isolation switch for the shower.
>>> I was dead proud of my shower.
>>> I wish that I was 45 years younger.
>>
>> Pity that 45 years later you are still describing a consumer unit as
>> a meter.
That was to bait you. As always you took the bait, thicko.
> <damdu...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:4o73nbd9ne420vu80...@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 27 Jun 2016 19:55:40 +0100, "Mr Pounder Esquire"
>> <MrPo...@RationalThought.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Oh dear!
>>> 45 years ago in my first house I fitted and plumbed in a Triton 7KW
>>> electric
>>> shower over the bath. The cable went straight down the pipe box and
>>> finished
>>> up in the meter cupboard. I was very nervous when I connected the
>>> cable to the electric meter. Nervous is better than saying that I
>>> was shit scared. The meter had fuses. No RCD stuff.
>>> There was no isolation switch for the shower.
>>> I was dead proud of my shower.
>>> I wish that I was 45 years younger.
>>
>> Pity that 45 years later you are still describing a consumer unit as
>> a meter.
I Just knew that you would read and reply. Thicko
>>
>
> If it had gone wrong and had shit himself and least he could have
> wiped his elbow clean with a bit of toilet paper.
But it did not go wrong thicko. I can remember shafting three nice women
>
> If it had gone wrong and had shit himself and least he could have
> wiped his elbow clean with a bit of toilet paper.
under that shower whilst stood up. At differant times.
No sane man would have bought a council house, thicko.
Fredxxx
Jun 28, 2016, 4:06:54 PM6/28/16
to
> No sane man would have bought a council house, thicko.
Are you jealousy of him? It certainly shows!
ARW
Jun 28, 2016, 4:47:31 PM6/28/16
to
"Mr Pounder Esquire" <MrPo...@RationalThought.com> wrote in message
news:nkukfo$4tf$1...@dont-email.me...
posted that?
He did not take the bait (no-one did as there was no bait) - he just pointed
out that you are not very clever.
--
Adam
news:nkukfo$4tf$1...@dont-email.me...
> ARW wrote:
>> <damdu...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:4o73nbd9ne420vu80...@4ax.com...
>>> On Mon, 27 Jun 2016 19:55:40 +0100, "Mr Pounder Esquire"
>>> <MrPo...@RationalThought.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Oh dear!
>>>> 45 years ago in my first house I fitted and plumbed in a Triton 7KW
>>>> electric
>>>> shower over the bath. The cable went straight down the pipe box and
>>>> finished
>>>> up in the meter cupboard. I was very nervous when I connected the
>>>> cable to the electric meter. Nervous is better than saying that I
>>>> was shit scared. The meter had fuses. No RCD stuff.
>>>> There was no isolation switch for the shower.
>>>> I was dead proud of my shower.
>>>> I wish that I was 45 years younger.
>>>
>>> Pity that 45 years later you are still describing a consumer unit as
>>> a meter.
>
> That was to bait you. As always you took the bait, thicko.
> I Just knew that you would read and reply. Thicko
May I point out that you were not replying to me but to damduck-egg when you
>> <damdu...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:4o73nbd9ne420vu80...@4ax.com...
>>> On Mon, 27 Jun 2016 19:55:40 +0100, "Mr Pounder Esquire"
>>> <MrPo...@RationalThought.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Oh dear!
>>>> 45 years ago in my first house I fitted and plumbed in a Triton 7KW
>>>> electric
>>>> shower over the bath. The cable went straight down the pipe box and
>>>> finished
>>>> up in the meter cupboard. I was very nervous when I connected the
>>>> cable to the electric meter. Nervous is better than saying that I
>>>> was shit scared. The meter had fuses. No RCD stuff.
>>>> There was no isolation switch for the shower.
>>>> I was dead proud of my shower.
>>>> I wish that I was 45 years younger.
>>>
>>> Pity that 45 years later you are still describing a consumer unit as
>>> a meter.
>
> That was to bait you. As always you took the bait, thicko.
> I Just knew that you would read and reply. Thicko
posted that?
He did not take the bait (no-one did as there was no bait) - he just pointed
out that you are not very clever.
--
Adam
Mr Pounder Esquire
Jun 28, 2016, 5:00:51 PM6/28/16
to
Two girls and me.
>
>> No sane man would have bought a council house, thicko.
>
> God, you're acting as if you've been married to Adam.
>
> Are you jealousy of him? It certainly shows!
I do not like bullies and he is a bully.
>> No sane man would have bought a council house, thicko.
>
> God, you're acting as if you've been married to Adam.
>
> Are you jealousy of him? It certainly shows!
James Wilkinson
Jun 28, 2016, 5:21:02 PM6/28/16
to
>>> No sane man would have bought a council house, thicko.
>>
>> God, you're acting as if you've been married to Adam.
>>
>> Are you jealousy of him? It certainly shows!
>
> I do not like bullies and he is a bully.
--
If you jog in a jogging suit, lounge in lounging pyjamas, and smoke in a smoking jacket, why would anyone want to wear a windbreaker?
Fredxxx
Jun 28, 2016, 5:48:10 PM6/28/16
to
>>>> No sane man would have bought a council house, thicko.
>>>
>>> God, you're acting as if you've been married to Adam.
>>>
>>> Are you jealousy of him? It certainly shows!
>>
>> I do not like bullies and he is a bully.
>
> Awww you poor thing.
James Wilkinson
Jun 28, 2016, 5:55:09 PM6/28/16
to
--
The sensible in the world are doomed to be frustrated by petty, officious idiots.
James Wilkinson
Jun 28, 2016, 6:10:07 PM6/28/16
to
On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 01:22:02 +0100, John Rumm <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
> On 27/06/2016 20:02, James Wilkinson wrote:
>
>> Funny how you didn't die. RC whatevers are for pussies.
>
> What is the point of all this secret agent nym shifting, if you are
> going to post the same parrot fucker dribblings as usual and blow your
> cover?
If I wanted to hide my cover I'd do so. I changed name because I felt like it.
> On 27/06/2016 20:02, James Wilkinson wrote:
>
>> Funny how you didn't die. RC whatevers are for pussies.
>
> What is the point of all this secret agent nym shifting, if you are
> going to post the same parrot fucker dribblings as usual and blow your
> cover?
And PKB with the childish names....
--
1 in 6 men in Iowa have had sex with a chicken -- The Kinsey Report
John Rumm
Jun 28, 2016, 8:16:13 PM6/28/16
to
On 28/06/2016 23:10, James Wilkinson wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 01:22:02 +0100, John Rumm
> <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
>
>> On 27/06/2016 20:02, James Wilkinson wrote:
>>
>>> Funny how you didn't die. RC whatevers are for pussies.
>>
>> What is the point of all this secret agent nym shifting, if you are
>> going to post the same parrot fucker dribblings as usual and blow your
>> cover?
>
> If I wanted to hide my cover I'd do so. I changed name because I felt
> like it.
You mean you were no longer reeling in so many due to being resident in
> On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 01:22:02 +0100, John Rumm
> <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
>
>> On 27/06/2016 20:02, James Wilkinson wrote:
>>
>>> Funny how you didn't die. RC whatevers are for pussies.
>>
>> What is the point of all this secret agent nym shifting, if you are
>> going to post the same parrot fucker dribblings as usual and blow your
>> cover?
>
> If I wanted to hide my cover I'd do so. I changed name because I felt
> like it.
too many kill files?
> And PKB with the childish names....
The Natural Philosopher
Jun 28, 2016, 11:03:08 PM6/28/16
to
On 28/06/16 21:06, Fredxxx wrote:
>> But it did not go wrong thicko. I can remember shafting three nice women
>> under that shower whilst stood up. At differant times.
>
> It would have been more impressive if at the same time.
"Three strikes and you're out"
>> But it did not go wrong thicko. I can remember shafting three nice women
>> under that shower whilst stood up. At differant times.
>
> It would have been more impressive if at the same time.
--
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will
eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such
time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic
and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally
important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for
the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the
truth is the greatest enemy of the State.
Joseph Goebbels
spuorg...@gowanhill.com
Jun 29, 2016, 4:15:37 AM6/29/16
to
On Tuesday, 28 June 2016 18:31:19 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
> > Having said that, the original post is over 4 years old, so chances are
> > its been done now!
> You might be pushing it at that comment:-)
That's true, I moved 3 years ago and t'other week found a Scruit(tm) lurking in a lightswitch. I thought I'd replaced them all.
> > Having said that, the original post is over 4 years old, so chances are
> > its been done now!
> You might be pushing it at that comment:-)
Still got a smoke detector I bought when I moved in, that should be getting fitted this year.
Owain
charles
Jun 29, 2016, 4:27:04 AM6/29/16
to
In article <bbc868ab-4da7-4c56...@googlegroups.com>,
stopped being stranded.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
<spuorg...@gowanhill.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, 28 June 2016 18:31:19 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
> > > Having said that, the original post is over 4 years old, so chances
> > > are its been done now!
> > You might be pushing it at that comment:-)
> That's true, I moved 3 years ago and t'other week found a Scruit(tm)
> lurking in a lightswitch. I thought I'd replaced them all.
I've still got some in a tobacco tin. They stopped being useful when cable
> On Tuesday, 28 June 2016 18:31:19 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
> > > Having said that, the original post is over 4 years old, so chances
> > > are its been done now!
> > You might be pushing it at that comment:-)
> That's true, I moved 3 years ago and t'other week found a Scruit(tm)
> lurking in a lightswitch. I thought I'd replaced them all.
stopped being stranded.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
James Wilkinson
Jun 29, 2016, 9:00:25 PM6/29/16
to
On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 01:16:12 +0100, John Rumm <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
> On 28/06/2016 23:10, James Wilkinson wrote:
>> On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 01:22:02 +0100, John Rumm
>> <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
>>
>>> On 27/06/2016 20:02, James Wilkinson wrote:
>>>
>>>> Funny how you didn't die. RC whatevers are for pussies.
>>>
>>> What is the point of all this secret agent nym shifting, if you are
>>> going to post the same parrot fucker dribblings as usual and blow your
>>> cover?
>>
>> If I wanted to hide my cover I'd do so. I changed name because I felt
>> like it.
>
> You mean you were no longer reeling in so many due to being resident in
> too many kill files?
I don't care who killfiles me.
> On 28/06/2016 23:10, James Wilkinson wrote:
>> On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 01:22:02 +0100, John Rumm
>> <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
>>
>>> On 27/06/2016 20:02, James Wilkinson wrote:
>>>
>>>> Funny how you didn't die. RC whatevers are for pussies.
>>>
>>> What is the point of all this secret agent nym shifting, if you are
>>> going to post the same parrot fucker dribblings as usual and blow your
>>> cover?
>>
>> If I wanted to hide my cover I'd do so. I changed name because I felt
>> like it.
>
> You mean you were no longer reeling in so many due to being resident in
> too many kill files?
>> And PKB with the childish names....
>
> Stop with the childish posts then...
--
A study in Scotland showed that the kind of male face a woman finds attractive can differ depending where a woman is in her menstrual cycle.
For instance, if she is ovulating they are attracted to men with rugged, masculine features.
If she is menstruating she is more prone to be attracted to a man with scissors shoved in his temple.
The Natural Philosopher
Jun 30, 2016, 4:22:18 AM6/30/16
to
On 30/06/16 02:00, James Wilkinson wrote:
> Learn the difference between a fact and an opinion.
I think you will find, James, that post-modern Marxism and its Liberal
> Learn the difference between a fact and an opinion.
derivatives consider that a fact *is* an opinion.
This stems from a lack of intelligence and addiction to binary thinking
in being unable to discern between 'the truth is ultimately unknowable'
and 'there is no truth except what people believe it to be'.
If you look at the last few weeks you will see this operating at full
throttle.
Of course as a philosopher pointed out.."there is no truth except what
people believe it to be" is merely a "truth that people believe"...hahaha.
--
Karl Marx said religion is the opium of the people.
But Marxism is the crack cocaine.
James Wilkinson
Jun 30, 2016, 8:13:14 AM6/30/16
to
On Thu, 30 Jun 2016 09:22:29 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 30/06/16 02:00, James Wilkinson wrote:
>> Learn the difference between a fact and an opinion.
> I think you will find, James, that post-modern Marxism and its Liberal
> derivatives consider that a fact *is* an opinion.
>
> This stems from a lack of intelligence and addiction to binary thinking
> in being unable to discern between 'the truth is ultimately unknowable'
> and 'there is no truth except what people believe it to be'.
>
> If you look at the last few weeks you will see this operating at full
> throttle.
>
> Of course as a philosopher pointed out.."there is no truth except what
> people believe it to be" is merely a "truth that people believe"...hahaha.
What have you been smoking?
> On 30/06/16 02:00, James Wilkinson wrote:
>> Learn the difference between a fact and an opinion.
> I think you will find, James, that post-modern Marxism and its Liberal
> derivatives consider that a fact *is* an opinion.
>
> This stems from a lack of intelligence and addiction to binary thinking
> in being unable to discern between 'the truth is ultimately unknowable'
> and 'there is no truth except what people believe it to be'.
>
> If you look at the last few weeks you will see this operating at full
> throttle.
>
> Of course as a philosopher pointed out.."there is no truth except what
> people believe it to be" is merely a "truth that people believe"...hahaha.
--
Why is there no Disneyland in China?
No one's tall enough to go on the good rides.
The Natural Philosopher
Jun 30, 2016, 9:47:41 AM6/30/16
to
though.
I suppose you dont know the underlying philosophical positions which
underpinned Marxism, Nazism and the philosophies of the new post-modern
Left?
No, thought not.
Sigh. Its as clear as crystal to see fir example what metaphysics
Plowperson unconsciously uses to form his view of the world. It's
pathetic, its useless, it probably has left him permanently scarred, not
very rich, and miserable, but will he give it up?
No way.
It's all he has.
If he ceased to have faith in it, everything he thinks he is would
vanish or become pointless.
It takes a certain something to understand that the world, and the
possible views one has of it, are not the same. It is the curse of the
half-clever that having thought they actually understood something, they
believe they have arrived at the truth for all time and become ossified
Stupid people and really clever people are in fact better. They *know*
they haven't arrived at the truth, and never will.
But at least they know there is a truth, and some ways of looking at it
work better than others.
And of all the ways, Marxism, which is the heart of just about any
educated 'liberals' world view (even if they don't know it) is the most
useless and dysfunctional and destructive. But then that was the idea.
Marx set out to destroy a system he hated because it didn't appreciate
what a fine fellow he was...So he wrote the Leftycunts Bible, telling
the stupes how great but oppressed they were, and how the kingdom of
heaven would be theirs if they all got together and behaved like sullen
spoilt brats.
Superb!
The ultimate regime change tool, and in every case where its been used
to effect a regime change, what comes after is infinitely worse than
what came before, and stays till the people are sick of it.
We just got sick of it. Get over it.
--
A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on
its shoes.
James Wilkinson
Jun 30, 2016, 9:56:15 AM6/30/16
to
--
Do not adjust your mind - the fault is with reality.
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