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Help with wiring zwave switch for water heater (240V)
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Mathias Koerber
May 1, 2017, 8:39:31 PM5/1/17
to
Moin,
I hope this is a suitable group for this kind of question.
If no, suggestions are welcome.
I'd like to automate our storage/tank water heater using some home
automation system using zWave.
Local power is 240V 50Hz
The Water Heater is rated
220V-240V 2.5-3kW
(which in my calculations may end up just above 13A)
Originally, the water header was just connected directly to the
incoming power supply via a 2-throw wall switch (for both the
L and N wires, ground connected through inside the switch housing.
I was planning to use a Fibaro FGS-213 switch for this
http://products.z-wavealliance.org/products/1871
It is rated at 8A tops, so it cannot be used with the heater
as load directly
So I got a contactor:
Schneider TeSys LC1K09 10M7
http://www.datasheetlib.com/datasheets/lc1k09.html
which is rated:
| [Ie] rated operational current
| 9 A AC AC-3 for power circuit at <= 440 V
| 16 A (<= 70 °C) at 690 V AC AC-1 for power circuit
| 20 A (<= 50 °C) at <= 440 V AC AC-1 for power circuit
Since the water heater is an AC-1 load, it can handle
up to 20A, which should be sufficient.
I am using two poles of the 3-pole contactor so that
in Open both the LIVE and NEUTRAL of the water heater are
disconnected (just like with the 2-throw switch it replaces)
The Fibaro also has a switch connection which allows for local
switching of the load...
This is the wiring diagram I came up with:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5r0sbaj5iqz5qz5/wiring1.pdf?dl=0
I would like to know if that is doable, and whether
I am missing anything..
1. Can I just connect all the N leads together like that?
or do I need anything to protect the N ports of the
Fibaro and the NO (14) of the contactor from any
current?
Same for the Ground?
2. I am unsure about what colour leads to use for all connections.
Incoming LIVE i brown. that much is clear. what colour wire
should I use between the FIBARO's load connector (Q) and the
contactor's A13 NO control gate?
Same for the leads to the switch connected to the Fibaro's L
and S1 ports?
The whole thing will be housed in a :hager plastic enclosure
with a metal DIN rail. do I need to ground the DIN rail
inside this enclosure? Afaics the contactor has no ground connection
to the rail itself..
thanks to all
I hope this is a suitable group for this kind of question.
If no, suggestions are welcome.
I'd like to automate our storage/tank water heater using some home
automation system using zWave.
Local power is 240V 50Hz
The Water Heater is rated
220V-240V 2.5-3kW
(which in my calculations may end up just above 13A)
Originally, the water header was just connected directly to the
incoming power supply via a 2-throw wall switch (for both the
L and N wires, ground connected through inside the switch housing.
I was planning to use a Fibaro FGS-213 switch for this
http://products.z-wavealliance.org/products/1871
It is rated at 8A tops, so it cannot be used with the heater
as load directly
So I got a contactor:
Schneider TeSys LC1K09 10M7
http://www.datasheetlib.com/datasheets/lc1k09.html
which is rated:
| [Ie] rated operational current
| 9 A AC AC-3 for power circuit at <= 440 V
| 16 A (<= 70 °C) at 690 V AC AC-1 for power circuit
| 20 A (<= 50 °C) at <= 440 V AC AC-1 for power circuit
Since the water heater is an AC-1 load, it can handle
up to 20A, which should be sufficient.
I am using two poles of the 3-pole contactor so that
in Open both the LIVE and NEUTRAL of the water heater are
disconnected (just like with the 2-throw switch it replaces)
The Fibaro also has a switch connection which allows for local
switching of the load...
This is the wiring diagram I came up with:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5r0sbaj5iqz5qz5/wiring1.pdf?dl=0
I would like to know if that is doable, and whether
I am missing anything..
1. Can I just connect all the N leads together like that?
or do I need anything to protect the N ports of the
Fibaro and the NO (14) of the contactor from any
current?
Same for the Ground?
2. I am unsure about what colour leads to use for all connections.
Incoming LIVE i brown. that much is clear. what colour wire
should I use between the FIBARO's load connector (Q) and the
contactor's A13 NO control gate?
Same for the leads to the switch connected to the Fibaro's L
and S1 ports?
The whole thing will be housed in a :hager plastic enclosure
with a metal DIN rail. do I need to ground the DIN rail
inside this enclosure? Afaics the contactor has no ground connection
to the rail itself..
thanks to all
Andy Burns
May 2, 2017, 1:38:58 AM5/2/17
to
Mathias Koerber wrote:
> I would like to know if that is doable, and whether
> I am missing anything..
You talked about double pole switching (i.e. disconnect live and
> I would like to know if that is doable, and whether
> I am missing anything..
neutral) but your diagram shows a permanent neutral to the heater?
You show a live going to contact 13 and a neutral going to contact 14,
that thing is going to go *BANG* if you ever get the contactor to turn on.
Thankfully it will never turn on (unless you operate the mechanical
interlock) because you don't show any connections to the contactor coil
on A1/A2
A serious rethink required ...
Mathias Koerber
May 2, 2017, 1:47:56 AM5/2/17
to
On 2/5/17 13:38, Andy Burns wrote:
> Mathias Koerber wrote:
>
>> I would like to know if that is doable, and whether
>> I am missing anything..
>
> You talked about double pole switching (i.e. disconnect live and
> neutral) but your diagram shows a permanent neutral to the heater?
No.
> Mathias Koerber wrote:
>
>> I would like to know if that is doable, and whether
>> I am missing anything..
>
> You talked about double pole switching (i.e. disconnect live and
> neutral) but your diagram shows a permanent neutral to the heater?
L goes to L1 on the contactor and from there from T1 to the heater's L
N goes to L3 on the contactor and from there from T3 to the header's N
Both are switched when the 13/14 trigger connection has voltage
applied..
> You show a live going to contact 13 and a neutral going to contact 14,
> that thing is going to go *BANG* if you ever get the contactor to turn on.
> Thankfully it will never turn on (unless you operate the mechanical
> interlock) because you don't show any connections to the contactor coil
> on A1/A2
L1T1,L2T2,L3T3 but it is used to either just show a low-voltage
LED light when switched on, or to be able to trigger another
daisy-chained contactor etc (in which case these would go to 13/14 on
the second contactor.
Mathias Koerber
May 2, 2017, 1:57:36 AM5/2/17
to
Oops. I see what you mean. I confused the A1/A2
and 13/14 aux contacts.
But the main point stays. the L and N from the supply are
not directly connected to the heater, but will get those wires switched
only when the signal from the Fibaro provides voltage to A1/A2...
I am updating the diagram
and 13/14 aux contacts.
But the main point stays. the L and N from the supply are
not directly connected to the heater, but will get those wires switched
only when the signal from the Fibaro provides voltage to A1/A2...
I am updating the diagram
Andy Burns
May 2, 2017, 2:03:00 AM5/2/17
to
Mathias Koerber wrote:
> L goes to L1 on the contactor and from there from T1 to the heater's L
> N goes to L3 on the contactor and from there from T3 to the header's N
That is what I would expect, except your diagram doesn't show any
> L goes to L1 on the contactor and from there from T1 to the heater's L
> N goes to L3 on the contactor and from there from T3 to the header's N
connection to L3/T3 at all, have you posted the wrong dropbox link?
> According to the Data Sheet, A1/A2 are aux (they also switch along with
> L1T1,L2T2,L3T3 but it is used to either just show a low-voltage
> LED light when switched on, or to be able to trigger another
> daisy-chained contactor etc (in which case these would go to 13/14 on
> the second contactor.
coil voltage to the M7?
<https://www.imc-direct.com/product_p/lc1k0910g7.htm>
Doesn't that show coil on A1/A3 and 13/14 as aux N/O contacts?
<https://cdn3.volusion.com/yvmzx.zvgjh/v/vspfiles/photos/LC1K0910G7-3.gif?1434947328>
Andy Burns
May 2, 2017, 2:07:00 AM5/2/17
to
Mathias Koerber wrote:
> Oops. I see what you mean. I confused the A1/A2
> and 13/14 aux contacts.
At least it was only on paper :-)
> Oops. I see what you mean. I confused the A1/A2
> and 13/14 aux contacts.
> But the main point stays. the L and N from the supply are
> not directly connected to the heater, but will get those wires switched
> only when the signal from the Fibaro provides voltage to A1/A2...
as checking what the contact letters mean on the fibaro) but the neutral
is shown as being permanently connected from the blue diamond
> I am updating the diagram
Tim Watts
May 2, 2017, 3:08:30 AM5/2/17
to
On 02/05/17 01:39, Mathias Koerber wrote:
> Moin,
>
> I hope this is a suitable group for this kind of question.
Totally :)
> Moin,
>
> I hope this is a suitable group for this kind of question.
Plenty of headroom with this module:
http://www.vesternet.com/z-wave-aeon-labs-heavy-duty-switch
plus it will measure power consumption as a bonus.
Mathias Koerber
May 2, 2017, 3:24:42 AM5/2/17
to
Andy,
yes, it seems the link was bad.
here is a new one:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5r0sbaj5iqz5qz5/wiring1.pdf?dl=0
I hope that this one works
M
Andy Burns
May 2, 2017, 3:58:00 AM5/2/17
to
Mathias Koerber wrote:
> here is a new one:
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/5r0sbaj5iqz5qz5/wiring1.pdf?dl=0
> I hope that this one works
Yes that wiring looks correct, including the z-wave contacts.
> here is a new one:
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/5r0sbaj5iqz5qz5/wiring1.pdf?dl=0
> I hope that this one works
Is this in the UK? A dedicated radial or on a ring circuit? What rating
fuse or MCB?
You might want the live feed to the z-wave module to be fused down lower
than the heater circuit as a whole ... [checking] ... the manual says
10A max.
Mathias Koerber
May 2, 2017, 11:19:52 PM5/2/17
to
On 2/5/17 15:57, Andy Burns wrote:
> Mathias Koerber wrote:
>
>> here is a new one:
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/5r0sbaj5iqz5qz5/wiring1.pdf?dl=0
>> I hope that this one works
>
> Yes that wiring looks correct, including the z-wave contacts.
>
> Is this in the UK? A dedicated radial or on a ring circuit? What rating
> fuse or MCB?
Dedicated Radial on it's own MCB.. so hat should not be a problem
> Mathias Koerber wrote:
>
>> here is a new one:
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/5r0sbaj5iqz5qz5/wiring1.pdf?dl=0
>> I hope that this one works
>
> Yes that wiring looks correct, including the z-wave contacts.
>
> Is this in the UK? A dedicated radial or on a ring circuit? What rating
> fuse or MCB?
>
> You might want the live feed to the z-wave module to be fused down lower
> than the heater circuit as a whole ... [checking] ... the manual says
> 10A max.
Thanks. One more question. In my current design, I have
> You might want the live feed to the z-wave module to be fused down lower
> than the heater circuit as a whole ... [checking] ... the manual says
> 10A max.
(other than the contactor) no load on the load circuit opened by
the Fibaro switch. Would that be a problem, electrically?
Should I maybe add a smallish lamp/LED for it to drive?
And yes I understand that the Fibaro switch won't measure any
useful power usage (other than times on/off) with or without that
extra load. The solution with the heavy duty switch Tim suggested
may be better, if I can find one here (Singapore)
Tim Watts
May 3, 2017, 2:49:30 AM5/3/17
to
On 03/05/17 04:19, Mathias Koerber wrote:
> On 2/5/17 15:57, Andy Burns wrote:
>> Mathias Koerber wrote:
>>
>>> here is a new one:
>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/5r0sbaj5iqz5qz5/wiring1.pdf?dl=0
>>> I hope that this one works
>>
>> Yes that wiring looks correct, including the z-wave contacts.
>>
>> Is this in the UK? A dedicated radial or on a ring circuit? What rating
>> fuse or MCB?
>
> Dedicated Radial on it's own MCB.. so hat should not be a problem
>>
>> You might want the live feed to the z-wave module to be fused down lower
>> than the heater circuit as a whole ... [checking] ... the manual says
>> 10A max.
>
> Thanks. One more question. In my current design, I have
> (other than the contactor) no load on the load circuit opened by
> the Fibaro switch. Would that be a problem, electrically?
> Should I maybe add a smallish lamp/LED for it to drive?
I have the Fibaro DIn modules - they don't care if they have zero load.
> On 2/5/17 15:57, Andy Burns wrote:
>> Mathias Koerber wrote:
>>
>>> here is a new one:
>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/5r0sbaj5iqz5qz5/wiring1.pdf?dl=0
>>> I hope that this one works
>>
>> Yes that wiring looks correct, including the z-wave contacts.
>>
>> Is this in the UK? A dedicated radial or on a ring circuit? What rating
>> fuse or MCB?
>
> Dedicated Radial on it's own MCB.. so hat should not be a problem
>>
>> You might want the live feed to the z-wave module to be fused down lower
>> than the heater circuit as a whole ... [checking] ... the manual says
>> 10A max.
>
> Thanks. One more question. In my current design, I have
> (other than the contactor) no load on the load circuit opened by
> the Fibaro switch. Would that be a problem, electrically?
> Should I maybe add a smallish lamp/LED for it to drive?
I have a couple on circuits that do not yet have lights.
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