How many mains rings, typically, for 4-bed house?

[Michael Kilpatrick]

I'm just curious as to how a typical large house, built today, would be
configured, when compared to our 4-bedroom bungalow (1963, extended
previously and also by us four years ago).

I'd like to think about whether I should partition some of our existing
ring mains, should I have some electrical work done to the house at any
point soon.

The four-bedroom bungalow has three ring mains and three lighting
circuits (plus more for the garage, external and other bits and bobs).
There are actually plenty of spare slots on the consumer unit which is
new, replaced when the extension was done in 2009.

Only three of the total of sixteen breakers in our consumer unit are
actually associated with the mains wall sockets, or four if you count
the one for the cooker.

So, typically, for a house which has: kitchen, dining room, living room,
two studies, four bedrooms, hallway, utility room, toilet, bathroom and
one en-suite, how many ring circuits for power sockets would be
installed for a new build?

Currently, the study and living room power are ringed with one half of
the kitchen. It's all a bit odd. The other half of the kitchen (wall
adjoining the new utility room) is ringed with the extension. It's all
slightly odd.

Michael

[j...@mdfs.net]

Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
> So, typically, for a house which has: kitchen, dining room, living room,
> two studies, four bedrooms, hallway, utility room, toilet, bathroom and

So, a *six*-bedroom house. For that I'd use three rings. With today's
proliferation of electrical kitchen gadgets I'd have one ring for the
kitchen+utility room (I presume the utility rooms is where the washing
machine would be), one ring for some configuration of "downstairs",
and one ring for some configuration of "upstairs".

For yer typical 4-bed house I use two rings and two lights, ground
floors+cellar, upstairs+attic. If there's a garage, that has a spur
to it's own CU.

jgh

[Bob Eager]

Our house is 5 bedroom (well, 4 and a big study). I ended up with five
rings.

- kitchen/utility room as you say.
- living room; on its own because the cable run is a bit tortuous and if
I added othee rooms it would have been 'too long'.
- other downstairs rooms.
- bedrooms.
- study (9 computers, etc).



--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
My posts (including this one) are my copyright and if @diy_forums on
Twitter wish to tweet them they can pay me £30 a post
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

[Rick Hughes]

On 16/01/2014 11:49, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:> I'm just curious as to

how a typical large house, built today, would be
> configured, when compared to our 4-bedroom bungalow (1963, extended
> previously and also by us four years ago).

> Michael



Not sure if it helps ...but this is what I did

Ring 1 Kitchen & Utility
Ring 2 Rest of gnd floor excluding garage
Ring 3 half of 1st Floor
Ring 4 2nd half of 1st floor

This has to be viewed with regard to other power ccts used ...

Radial 1 (non RCCD) Kitchen & Utility (cooker,fridge & Freezer)
Radial 2 (non RCCD) Study & comms cupboard
Radial 3 Immersion Heater
Radial 4 attached Garage

Split of incoming to provide a separate 40A TT supply to outbuildings

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <bpudndacxNHHWkrP...@brightview.co.uk>,

Michael Kilpatrick <ne...@mkilpatrickspam.co.uk> wrote:
> I'm just curious as to how a typical large house, built today, would be
> configured, when compared to our 4-bedroom bungalow (1963, extended
> previously and also by us four years ago).

> I'd like to think about whether I should partition some of our existing
> ring mains, should I have some electrical work done to the house at any
> point soon.

Have you had problems with overloading?

Apart from the kitchen - and possibly some form of workshop - most houses
would be happy enough with one for everything else. Assuming you're not
using it for heating.

Of course it might be more convenient to have say one per floor each on a
RCBO, to prevent a fault on one taking everything out.

--
*Forget about World Peace...Visualize using your turn signal.

Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[meow...@care2.com]

On Thursday, January 16, 2014 11:49:56 AM UTC, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:

> I'm just curious as to how a typical large house, built today, would be
> configured, when compared to our 4-bedroom bungalow (1963, extended
> previously and also by us four years ago).
> I'd like to think about whether I should partition some of our existing
> ring mains,

have you had any problems that would solve?

> should I have some electrical work done to the house at any
> point soon.

have you had any problems with it?

> Currently, the study and living room power are ringed with one half of
> the kitchen. It's all a bit odd. The other half of the kitchen (wall
> adjoining the new utility room) is ringed with the extension. It's all
> slightly odd.
> Michael

Sounds very sensible, it gives the kitchen a lot more ampacity and reduces risk of nuisance trips.


NT

[chris French]

In message <53caee4...@davenoise.co.uk>, "Dave Plowman (News)"
<da...@davenoise.co.uk> writes

>In article <bpudndacxNHHWkrP...@brightview.co.uk>,
> Michael Kilpatrick <ne...@mkilpatrickspam.co.uk> wrote:
>> I'm just curious as to how a typical large house, built today, would be
>> configured, when compared to our 4-bedroom bungalow (1963, extended
>> previously and also by us four years ago).
>
>> I'd like to think about whether I should partition some of our existing
>> ring mains, should I have some electrical work done to the house at any
>> point soon.
>
>Have you had problems with overloading?
>
>Apart from the kitchen - and possibly some form of workshop - most houses
>would be happy enough with one for everything else. Assuming you're not
>using it for heating.
>
>Of course it might be more convenient to have say one per floor each on a
>RCBO, to prevent a fault on one taking everything out.
>

Our house has 3 rings, though rather than up and down stairs it is
arrnaged, in areas. The house is fairly largish (in size rather than
rooms so much), sort of L shaped , so we have kitchen, Utility and a
bedroom and outbuilding (it's an old install, one day they will get it's
own supply). on the bottom of the L, and then 2 rings spread across the
upwards bit of the L one at each end.

Kinda handy as it means we don't loose all the power on one floor if it
goes, or is turned off.

--
Chris French

[The Natural Philosopher]

I've got zillions of rings here, more because there seems to be a
(advisory?) limit on how many sockets you can put on one ring, and I
put sockets everywhere..

Think there are 6 rings, six lighting and 4 spurs on the CU...



--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

[Scott M]

Michael Kilpatrick wrote:

> Currently, the study and living room power are ringed with one half of
> the kitchen. It's all a bit odd. The other half of the kitchen (wall
> adjoining the new utility room) is ringed with the extension. It's all
> slightly odd.

Odd but practical. The days of rooms full of electric heaters (and hence
the original rules and regs) are long gone and the only load of note now
comes from kitchens and utilities. While a single ring for the kitchen
(as many have done here) is a very good idea, having it divied up as you
have is perhaps even better. I put forward the often found scenario of
turning off the kitchen power while ripping out sockets and moving
things about that need a mains powered SDS[1].


[1] Possibly one of the best reasons for keeping an
electric-cooker-point-with-socket even if it's a gas stove.

--
Scott

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

[chris French]

In message <lb8rks$3f6$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, Scott M
<no_one@no_where.net> writes

>Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
>
>> Currently, the study and living room power are ringed with one half
>>of the kitchen. It's all a bit odd. The other half of the kitchen
>>(wall adjoining the new utility room) is ringed with the extension.
>>It's all slightly odd.
>
>Odd but practical. The days of rooms full of electric heaters (and
>hence the original rules and regs) are long gone and the only load of
>note now comes from kitchens and utilities. While a single ring for the
>kitchen (as many have done here) is a very good idea, having it divied
>up as you have is perhaps even better. I put forward the often found
>scenario of turning off the kitchen power while ripping out sockets and
>moving things about that need a mains powered SDS[1].
>

Seems a bit of a tenuous reason.

I don't imagine most kitchen are very far from sockets outside the room,
(and presumably on another cicuit) to plug an extension lead into. Even
a socket in the same room would likely require one anyway
--
Chris French

[Michael Kilpatrick]

On 16/01/2014 13:59, meow...@care2.com wrote:
> On Thursday, January 16, 2014 11:49:56 AM UTC, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
>
>> I'm just curious as to how a typical large house, built today, would be
>> configured, when compared to our 4-bedroom bungalow (1963, extended
>> previously and also by us four years ago).
>> I'd like to think about whether I should partition some of our existing
>> ring mains,
>
> have you had any problems that would solve?

The problem is that the current arrangement offends my sense of aesthetics!

>
>> should I have some electrical work done to the house at any
>> point soon.
>
> have you had any problems with it?

No, not really. Apart from trying to work out what goes where.

At the moment I'm just adding a fused spur to feed power to the wireless
router which I'm moving into the loft, and to provide power to an
wireless access point which I'll site at the far end of the house. I've
added the spur to the living/room/study/etc ring, and added another spur
for a better power socket for the printer, the cable for which goes down
some existing trunking which feeds an external socket outside the study
- rather handy location. I've routed the ethernet cables for the PC and
printer down the same conduit so that there no longer any cables
floating around in silly places.

I just think the current power arrangement is a bit random. I would be
half tempted to separate the two studies to a ring of their own. Not
that one PC, a printer, a laptop and an electric piano take any power -
it's just that the whole wiring is a dog's dinner and it irritates me.
When the consumer unit has so many empty slots it would be better to be
able to switch off the study power ring without cutting off half of the
rest of the house when doing some work.

At least when the new consumer unit was put in (in one of the studies at
one end of the house), the new cables of the mains rings from the unit
go to some handy junction boxes where they meet the old ring circuits.
This means I can extend the rings or add spurs very easily.

Michael

[John Rumm]

On 16/01/2014 14:47, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 16/01/14 12:59, j...@mdfs.net wrote:
>> Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
>>> So, typically, for a house which has: kitchen, dining room, living room,
>>> two studies, four bedrooms, hallway, utility room, toilet, bathroom and
>>
>> So, a *six*-bedroom house. For that I'd use three rings. With today's
>> proliferation of electrical kitchen gadgets I'd have one ring for the
>> kitchen+utility room (I presume the utility rooms is where the washing
>> machine would be), one ring for some configuration of "downstairs",
>> and one ring for some configuration of "upstairs".
>>
>> For yer typical 4-bed house I use two rings and two lights, ground
>> floors+cellar, upstairs+attic. If there's a garage, that has a spur
>> to it's own CU.
>>
>> jgh
>>
> I've got zillions of rings here, more because there seems to be a
> (advisory?) limit on how many sockets you can put on one ring, and I
> put sockets everywhere..

There is no advisory on the number of sockets, but there is on the floor
area served by the ring (100m^2)

> Think there are 6 rings, six lighting and 4 spurs on the CU...

Got three in the house Kitchen/util, upstairs, downstairs. Then another
in the workshop.


--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

[Scott M]

chris French wrote:
> In message <lb8rks$3f6$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, Scott M
> <no_one@no_where.net> writes
>> Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
>>
>>> Currently, the study and living room power are ringed with one half
>>> of the kitchen. It's all a bit odd. The other half of the kitchen
>>> (wall adjoining the new utility room) is ringed with the extension.
>>> It's all slightly odd.
>>
>> Odd but practical. The days of rooms full of electric heaters (and
>> hence the original rules and regs) are long gone and the only load of
>> note now comes from kitchens and utilities. While a single ring for
>> the kitchen (as many have done here) is a very good idea, having it
>> divied up as you have is perhaps even better. I put forward the often
>> found scenario of turning off the kitchen power while ripping out
>> sockets and moving things about that need a mains powered SDS[1].
>>
> Seems a bit of a tenuous reason.

Always try and see the best in every situation! I was really mostly
thinking that splitting up the heavy loading of a kitchen into 2 rings
as being a good thing. The SDS thing was a sudden extra thought.

> I don't imagine most kitchen are very far from sockets outside the room,
> (and presumably on another cicuit) to plug an extension lead into. Even
> a socket in the same room would likely require one anyway

It's probably just me but I find extension leads trailing into a room a
bloody nuisance as I tend to trip over them or, in the case of my reel,
get the power tool lead caught in the handle. In the case of kitchen
renovation, which rarely stops the room being a kitchen during the work,
keeping some sockets on can only be a good thing for the chef.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <Ze6dnR_jK5rVYUrP...@brightview.co.uk>,

Michael Kilpatrick <ne...@mkilpatrickspam.co.uk> wrote:
> When the consumer unit has so many empty slots it would be better to be
> able to switch off the study power ring without cutting off half of the
> rest of the house when doing some work.

Remember with a shared RCD, just switching off a ring via a single pole
MCB won't prevent the RCD tripping if you're working on that ring.

--
*Why do overlook and oversee mean opposite things?

[Michael Kilpatrick]

As a general rule, whenever renovating a room stick in as many new mains
sockets as you damned well dan! It baffles me why the previous owners,
sometime in the mid 1980s, who converted the garage into two studies,
put in so few sockets around the larger study: they are single sockets
not doubles! It's an absolute pain. I've got a six-way trailing lead
under the desk to power the computer and other bits and bobs. And
miscellaneous things such as battery chargers, special chargers for the
camera batteries, mobile phone chargers...all these things need
somewhere to live. Even back in the 1980s when all these things didn't
exist, why would anyone put in a single socket rather than a double?

Michael

[Dave Liquorice]

On Thu, 16 Jan 2014 05:59:25 -0800 (PST), meow...@care2.com wrote:

>> Currently, the study and living room power are ringed with one
half of
>> the kitchen. It's all a bit odd. The other half of the kitchen
(wall
>> adjoining the new utility room) is ringed with the extension.
It's all
>> slightly odd.
>

> Sounds very sensible, it gives the kitchen a lot more ampacity and
> reduces risk of nuisance trips.

I'm not so keen, you flick off the MCB marked "kitchen/study" but go
and work on the one fed from the MCB "kitchen/utility". Of course you
will check the bit you are going to working on is off won't you, but
...

--
Cheers
Dave.

[spuorg...@gowanhill.com]

On Thursday, January 16, 2014 2:51:11 PM UTC, Scott M wrote:
> While a single ring for the kitchen
> (as many have done here) is a very good idea, having it divied up as you
> have is perhaps even better. I put forward the often found scenario of
> turning off the kitchen power while ripping out sockets and moving
> things about that need a mains powered SDS[1].

... and a kettle.

As the lounge etc are usually fairly lightly loaded, having two rings available the kitchen increases the available power to say 2 x (32A - token 5A for other stuff) which is even better than one 32A.

Having the cooker socket not only on a separate MCB but a separate RCD has been a $deitysend when working on stuff.

Owain

[meow...@care2.com]

In all seriousness if the above is reason for a rewire, it may be time to completely reevaluate what youre doing with your life. You only get one.


NT

[GMM]

I couldn't agree more: In my last house, pretty much every socket was a
single when I moved in. Replaced many of them with doublers early on,
then had to sink new 'proper' double boxes each time I decorated a room.

I've always assumed it was a matter of keeping the load on the circuit
under control, from the days when the only things that were plugged in
used a lot of juice, but it was probably just to keep costs down or
failure to predict the way things would go forward.

[Andrew Gabriel]

In article <bpudndacxNHHWkrP...@brightview.co.uk>,

Michael Kilpatrick <ne...@mkilpatrickspam.co.uk> writes:
> I'm just curious as to how a typical large house, built today, would be
> configured, when compared to our 4-bedroom bungalow (1963, extended
> previously and also by us four years ago).

These are the ones I've done over the last ~20 years (all 16th Ed)...

4-bedroom house:
Kitchen: 2 rings, 1 RCBO protected for portable applances,
1 not RCD protected for fridge/freezer, central heating,
oven, dishwasher.
2 bedrooms (extension) and garage: 1 20A radial (RCBO)
Rest of house: 1 ring (RCBO)


3-bedroom house:
Kitchen: 2 rings, 1 RCBO protected for portable applances,
1 not RCD protected for fridge/freezer, dishwasher,
washing machine.
Central heating: 16A dedicated radial (RCBO because boiler in bathroom)
Downstairs: 1 ring (RCBO)
Upstairs: 1 ring (RCBO)


3-bedroom house:
Kitchen + Upstairs: 1 Ring (RCBO)
Kitchen: 1 30A radial (RCBO) Oven, dishwasher, kettle.
Downstairs: 1 ring (RCBO)
Loft: 1 20A radial (RCBO) also feeds bathroom fan-heaters and
wall mounted hairdrier.
Outdoors: 1 20A radial (10mA RCBO)


In all cases, these were not rewires, but usually just some new circuits,
and that restricted the extent to which existing circuits could be redesigned.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <BPWdnUpuWeeX1kXP...@brightview.co.uk>,

Michael Kilpatrick <ne...@mkilpatrickspam.co.uk> wrote:
> As a general rule, whenever renovating a room stick in as many new mains
> sockets as you damned well dan! It baffles me why the previous owners,
> sometime in the mid 1980s, who converted the garage into two studies,
> put in so few sockets around the larger study: they are single sockets
> not doubles! It's an absolute pain. I've got a six-way trailing lead
> under the desk to power the computer and other bits and bobs. And
> miscellaneous things such as battery chargers, special chargers for the
> camera batteries, mobile phone chargers...all these things need
> somewhere to live. Even back in the 1980s when all these things didn't
> exist, why would anyone put in a single socket rather than a double?

To some, cost is all important.

There's a lot to be said for knowing just how the house will be laid out.
and having an adequate number of sockets were say a desktop will live. And
of course for things like aerial outlets and phone points - if anyone
still uses a landline. ;-) Luckily, this house is fairly easy to add
sockets to with a cellar and cavity internal walls. And carpets which can
be lifted.

--
*He's not dead - he's electroencephalographically challenged

[Dave Liquorice]

On Thu, 16 Jan 2014 23:47:30 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

> There's a lot to be said for knowing just how the house will be laid
> out.

But very difficult to predict. When planning the rewire here I went
way over the top but the sparky gently pointed this out and cut it
back to something much more reasonable.

It more or less boiled down to double sockets conviently positioned
either side of any opening, (door, large window), maximum distance
between double sockets of about 3 m and any corner that wouldn't have
one from the above got one. Additional was a coax and double Cat5 in
diagonal corners across the door (all our doors enter rooms in a
corner).

--
Cheers
Dave.

[Lobster]

On 16 Jan 2014, John Rumm <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> grunted:

> There is no advisory on the number of sockets, but there is on the
> floor area served by the ring (100m^2)

Is that figure based on the total area of each room/hallway added up, or
the area of the rectangle that the property sits on (which in my case is
quite different as the footprint here is L-shaped

--
David

[Tony Bryer]

On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 09:31:46 GMT Lobster wrote :
> Is that figure based on the total area of each room/hallway added up, or
> the area of the rectangle that the property sits on (which in my case is
> quite different as the footprint here is L-shaped

Floor area served by the ring. If you're arguing about whether to include
the area taken by partitions you need two rings :)

--
Tony Bryer, Greentram: 'Software to build on',
Melbourne, Australia www.greentram.com

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <nyyfbegfubjuvyypb...@srv1.howhill.co.uk>,

Dave Liquorice <allsortsn...@howhill.com> wrote:
> > There's a lot to be said for knowing just how the house will be laid
> > out.

> But very difficult to predict. When planning the rewire here I went
> way over the top but the sparky gently pointed this out and cut it
> back to something much more reasonable.

I did a basic re-wire when buying this house - a condition of the mortgage
- and then a more comprehensive job as each room or area was re-decorated.

> It more or less boiled down to double sockets conviently positioned
> either side of any opening, (door, large window), maximum distance
> between double sockets of about 3 m and any corner that wouldn't have
> one from the above got one. Additional was a coax and double Cat5 in
> diagonal corners across the door (all our doors enter rooms in a
> corner).

The only place I did a 'saturation rig' on was the through lounge which
was the first area to be finished. 2 doubles on each of the original walls
- apart from the dividing one, obviously. And to be perfectly honest many
have really never been needed. I'm a bit OCD about trailing cables, so
have used a mains distribution unit for the Hi-Fi etc rather than having
everything on individual 13 amp outlets.

One of the things many get wrong is the need for convenient Hoovering
sockets. ;-)

--
*A fool and his money are soon partying *

[Stephen]

On 16/01/2014 11:49, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:

I have 13 circuits at the mo.....

I have:

outside & Garage lights
loft lights
first floor lights
ground floor lights
smoke, heat, CO and intruder alarms
Ootside & Garage ring main
loft ring main
Kitchen & untility ring main
lounge & master bedroom ring main
Dormer bedroom, box bedroom, 3rd reception ring main
back bedroom * dinging room ring main
Boiler
Cooker

[Andy Burns]

Stephen wrote:

> I have 13 circuits at the mo.....
>

> outside & Garage lights
> loft lights
> first floor lights
> ground floor lights
> smoke, heat, CO and intruder alarms
> Ootside & Garage ring main
> loft ring main
> Kitchen & untility ring main
> lounge & master bedroom ring main
> Dormer bedroom, box bedroom, 3rd reception ring main
> back bedroom * dinging room ring main
> Boiler
> Cooker

Maybe you should've had a word with Dave L's sparky :-P

[John Rumm]

On 17/01/2014 09:56, Tony Bryer wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 09:31:46 GMT Lobster wrote :
>> Is that figure based on the total area of each room/hallway added up, or
>> the area of the rectangle that the property sits on (which in my case is
>> quite different as the footprint here is L-shaped
>
> Floor area served by the ring. If you're arguing about whether to include
> the area taken by partitions you need two rings :)

Quite...

Although common sense needs to apply. One ring for 120m^2 of bedrooms
etc will probably still be lightly loaded. However 30m^2 of kitchen and
utility can fully load another.

[Dave Liquorice]

On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 10:20:51 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

> One of the things many get wrong is the need for convenient Hoovering
> sockets. ;-)

My either side of openings doors or large windows cures that. There
are lot of sockets and I expect some may never get used but I'd
prefer that to having extensions to get power where it is needed.

--
Cheers
Dave.

[Dave Liquorice]

On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 13:58:38 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

>> I have 13 circuits at the mo.....
>

> Maybe you should've had a word with Dave L's sparky :-P

The CU's, yes plural, for the bit of the house that has been rewired
house 14 cicuits, spread over 4 RCDS.

--
Cheers
Dave.

[steph...@tesco.net]

I actually have 13 RCBOs in the one consumer unit, with a 2 pole isolator switch.

ever since switching from RCD & MCB based CUs to 100% RCBO's I've not had a single nuisance trip since.

The circuits were planned to give extra integrity.

I'm actually going to be adding a 14th circuit, for my shed and greenhouse at the bottom of the garden.....

my house for the record is a 4/5 bedroom house. (I have a 3rd reception room which is flexible, i.e. a 5th bedroom, an office or a 3rd reception room. I've already turned the downstairs toilet/cloakroom into a shower room.

[Michael Kilpatrick]

On 17/01/2014 22:46, steph...@tesco.net wrote:

>
> I actually have 13 RCBOs in the one consumer unit, with a 2 pole isolator switch.
>
> ever since switching from RCD & MCB based CUs to 100% RCBO's I've not had a single nuisance trip since.
>

I've never really paid attention to exactly *what* was put in the new
consumer unit in 2009, but looking just now they are all RCBOs, and say
30mA, with units labelled "B32" on the three power rings and B40, B16,
B20, for the various other circuits and B6 for the several lighting
circuits and a towel radiator heater.

Michael

[ARW]

"John Rumm" <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote in message
news:KOKdnQ8h2v8Jl0XP...@brightview.co.uk...

> On 16/01/2014 14:47, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 16/01/14 12:59, j...@mdfs.net wrote:
>>> Michael Kilpatrick wrote:
>>>> So, typically, for a house which has: kitchen, dining room, living
>>>> room,
>>>> two studies, four bedrooms, hallway, utility room, toilet, bathroom and
>>>
>>> So, a *six*-bedroom house. For that I'd use three rings. With today's
>>> proliferation of electrical kitchen gadgets I'd have one ring for the
>>> kitchen+utility room (I presume the utility rooms is where the washing
>>> machine would be), one ring for some configuration of "downstairs",
>>> and one ring for some configuration of "upstairs".
>>>
>>> For yer typical 4-bed house I use two rings and two lights, ground
>>> floors+cellar, upstairs+attic. If there's a garage, that has a spur
>>> to it's own CU.
>>>
>>> jgh
>>>
>> I've got zillions of rings here, more because there seems to be a
>> (advisory?) limit on how many sockets you can put on one ring, and I
>> put sockets everywhere..
>
> There is no advisory on the number of sockets, but there is on the floor
> area served by the ring (100m^2)

Is that now classed as a historic rule of thumb?

--
Adam

[John Rumm]

Is it historical?

(or has table 8A OSG gone from later revisions of the 17th?)

[dochol...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, January 16, 2014 4:36:45 PM UTC, John Rumm wrote:

> There is no advisory on the number of sockets, but there is on the floor
> area served by the ring (100m^2)
>

That's interesting - I'll have to look at mine...
(5 bedrooms, 3 reception on 3 floors, plus cellar and detached double garage, all on a single ring, though the garage is fed as a fused spur. Done by the previous occupant, who was an electrician, and seemed to have done the minimum necessary in most cases...)

[John Rumm]

As with most instructions, they are guidance for situations where the
designer does not know better. So for example, if you knew that a
circuit was going be near to fully loaded covering a much smaller floor
area, then you would not use the guidance to justify overloading it by
pushing it to cover more. Likewise, covering a larger area when you know
that the total load will be very low would IMHO also be a reasonable
design decision.

However in your case, it does seem to be rather excessive in a number of
respects, and fails the basic test of "discrimination" - i.e. limiting
the impact of a fault to the area where it occurred. With your current
setup, a trip on that ring circuit will lose power to pretty much most
of the property by the sounds of it.

[j...@mdfs.net]

Scott M wrote:
> I put forward the often found scenario of turning off the
> kitchen power while ripping out sockets and moving things
> about that need a mains powered SDS[1].

What I do is wire the cellar and ground floor on one ring,
the upstairs and attic on another ring, and have one socket
(clearly labelled) next to the CU (in the cellar) that's on
the *upstairs* ring, so if I have the downstairs power off,
there's still a socket available.

I don't have any way of working upstairs with the power off,
though, I need to use a 30-foot extension lead thrown out
of the window to do that.

jgh

[j...@mdfs.net]

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> One of the things many get wrong is the need for convenient
> Hoovering sockets. ;-)

After rewiring and decorating my place, I realised I had to
retro-fit a socket at chest height to plug the iron into.

jgh

[Fredxxx]

On 17/01/2014 16:09, John Rumm wrote:
> On 17/01/2014 09:56, Tony Bryer wrote:
>> On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 09:31:46 GMT Lobster wrote :
>>> Is that figure based on the total area of each room/hallway added up, or
>>> the area of the rectangle that the property sits on (which in my case is
>>> quite different as the footprint here is L-shaped
>>
>> Floor area served by the ring. If you're arguing about whether to include
>> the area taken by partitions you need two rings :)
>
> Quite...
>
> Although common sense needs to apply. One ring for 120m^2 of bedrooms
> etc will probably still be lightly loaded. However 30m^2 of kitchen and
> utility can fully load another.

Hmm, not if there's an interruption in gas or oil supply and with say 5
bedrooms, each have a 2kW heater on the go!

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <lbr8ad$vlt$1...@dont-email.me>,

Fredxxx <fre...@nospam.com> wrote:
> > Although common sense needs to apply. One ring for 120m^2 of bedrooms
> > etc will probably still be lightly loaded. However 30m^2 of kitchen and
> > utility can fully load another.

> Hmm, not if there's an interruption in gas or oil supply and with say 5
> bedrooms, each have a 2kW heater on the go!

You have that number of heaters on standby?

I do keep two just in case the heating breaks. But not 5.

--
*If I worked as much as others, I would do as little as they *

[S Viemeister]

On 1/23/2014 9:57 AM, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <lbr8ad$vlt$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Fredxxx <fre...@nospam.com> wrote:
>>> Although common sense needs to apply. One ring for 120m^2 of bedrooms
>>> etc will probably still be lightly loaded. However 30m^2 of kitchen and
>>> utility can fully load another.
>
>> Hmm, not if there's an interruption in gas or oil supply and with say 5
>> bedrooms, each have a 2kW heater on the go!
>
> You have that number of heaters on standby?
>
> I do keep two just in case the heating breaks. But not 5.
>

We have three - and a fireplace.