MagnaClean and Hydroflow recommended by British Gas: worth it?
rrh
www.hydropath.com (unit seems to cost about £100)
and/or MagnaClean Professional filter to remove iron oxide particles from CH
system at £250 fitted as here:
www.adeysolutions.co.uk/Professional.asp (unit only seems to cost about
£90!)
One or both recommended today by the cheerful British Gas cove who (having
failed to shift my dead old immersion heater) will return next week to fit a
whole new HW cylinder "free" as part of my HomeCare policy.
CH is pressurised system with hardly any discernable loss of pressure in
recent years (hence no topping up). Powerflushed by BG several years ago and
I presume - though wasn't here to check - refilled with corrosion inhibitor
then. Certainly had it in before. Magnet applied to copper outlet of primary
flow from cylinder sticks to it, so I'll buy that there is lots of iron
oxide residue inside. But surely I want to stop that being produced in the
first place?
We are in a very hard water area and shower screens etc do get very
encrusted with scale. But googling the group suggests these Hydroflow
thingies aren't useful.
And it's BG, the guy is on commission etc. I have no intention of getting
either fitted next week, but might consider getting the estimable Ed Sirett
to install one or t'other when he does me a new boiler in a few months'
time. Updated views?
Doctor Drivel
"rrh" <rn...@hoggard.net> wrote in message
news:18Lij.77270$c_1....@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> Hydroflow to cut scale in domestic hot water at about Ł140 fitted as here:
>
> www.hydropath.com (unit seems to cost about Ł100)
>
> and/or MagnaClean Professional filter to remove iron oxide particles from
>
> One or both recommended today by the cheerful British Gas cove who (having
> failed to shift my dead old immersion heater) will return next week to fit
> a whole new HW cylinder "free" as part of my HomeCare policy.
>
> CH is pressurised system with hardly any discernable loss of pressure in
> recent years (hence no topping up). Powerflushed by BG several years ago
> and I presume - though wasn't here to check - refilled with corrosion
> inhibitor then. Certainly had it in before. Magnet applied to copper
> outlet of primary flow from cylinder sticks to it, so I'll buy that there
> is lots of iron oxide residue inside. But surely I want to stop that being
> produced in the first place?
>
> We are in a very hard water area and shower screens etc do get very
> encrusted with scale. But googling the group suggests these Hydroflow
> thingies aren't useful.
Try them if they don't work get your money back. I fitted an Aqua Dial
version and it worked. Many others have had mixed results. Top quality
makers recommend them, so the success rate must be good.
Mike Dodd
Installed a Magnaclean a year ago, at a time that I needed a replacement
boiler (heat-exchanger burnt through). It did a good job collecting crap
from the system (for a month or two I would remove the insert and was
impressed (or horrified?!) at the amount of suspended oxide it collected.
Lasted a year. Just before XMas I went for an "annual service", only to
find the steel shroud around the magnetic core had split and ruptured,
losing all magnetic qualities.
I wrote to Adey (manufacturers), providing photo's of the failure and
received NO reply whatsoever. I hadn't registered it when I bought from
plumbworld.
Because of time-of-year, and a desire to remedy the problem I've bought
a replacement, using only the lid/magnetic assembly - to avoid having to
replumb around this. I'll be keeping an eye on this one, to make sure it
doesn't fall to the same fate. I'm crossing my fingers that there was a
manufacturing defect on the first unit.
So...
When they work, they work well. And yes I heard many good things said
about them before I bought my first one - by those that HAD used them
(those that haven't remain skeptical, of course).
But I'm cautious of advising on their quality - since my first one
lasted <1 yr.
rrh
"Mike Dodd" <spamf...@summat.co.uk> wrote in message
news:fmg4r0$128i$1...@energise.enta.net...
Ta - v helpful.
TheScullster
"Mike Dodd"wrote
I have one installed that I put in with an old boiler and retained for the
new one, about 18 months total so far.
Likewise the amount of crud that it collects is a little alarming, although
the pipe changes made with the new boiler may account for better flow and
more pick up.
The core on mine is intact, but one of the valves was weeping past the stem
when I closed it just before Xmas for the clean operation (doesn't weep when
open fortunately).
Called Adey and was sent a pair of replacement valves FOC, which the girlie
claimed were redesigned etc etc (look the same to me).
I'll wait till the summer to drain down and fit these.
Judging by the amount of crud picked up, I'd say the core on mine was
definitely operating at last clean. Also suggests that the Fernox cleaners
I used did next to nak all.
The access method for cleaning certainly looks better than the boiler-buddy.
Phil
Mike Dodd
>>
>> But I'm cautious of advising on their quality - since my first one lasted
>> <1 yr.
>
> Ta - v helpful.
>
For interest sake (bad mobile phone picture)...
Dave Plowman (News)
rrh <rn...@hoggard.net> wrote:
> Hydroflow to cut scale in domestic hot water at about Ł140 fitted as
> here:
> www.hydropath.com (unit seems to cost about Ł100)
> and/or MagnaClean Professional filter to remove iron oxide particles
> from CH system at Ł250 fitted as here:
> www.adeysolutions.co.uk/Professional.asp (unit only seems to cost about
> Ł90!)
> One or both recommended today by the cheerful British Gas cove who
> (having failed to shift my dead old immersion heater) will return next
> week to fit a whole new HW cylinder "free" as part of my HomeCare
> policy.
> CH is pressurised system with hardly any discernable loss of pressure in
> recent years (hence no topping up). Powerflushed by BG several years
> ago and I presume - though wasn't here to check - refilled with
> corrosion inhibitor then.
I wouldn't bet on it. They seem to have an aversion to using inhibitor - I
wonder why?
> Certainly had it in before. Magnet applied to
> copper outlet of primary flow from cylinder sticks to it, so I'll buy
> that there is lots of iron oxide residue inside.
Then the inhibitor isn't effective.
> But surely I want to
> stop that being produced in the first place?
Absolutely. If the radiators are rusting and shedding oxide they *will*
eventually rupture. There could be a small amount on a new installation
but once filled with water - which isn't constantly being topped up due to
leaks or pumping over in an open system - the oxygen in the water
disappears and no corrosion should take place. And of course inhibitor
should be used anyway.
> We are in a very hard water area and shower screens etc do get very
> encrusted with scale. But googling the group suggests these Hydroflow
> thingies aren't useful.
Not so much 'not useful' as useless and a con. You might as well wrap the
pipe in the five pound notes you pay for it.
> And it's BG, the guy is on commission etc. I have no intention of
> getting either fitted next week, but might consider getting the
> estimable Ed Sirett to install one or t'other when he does me a new
> boiler in a few months' time. Updated views?
I'd love to know what Ed thinks of the Hydroflow unit.;-) The Magnaclean
may be worth it but shouldn't be necessary - but for gawds sake add
inhibitor. I'm utterly amazed BG allow their staff to promote snake oil
products, in the case of the Hydroflow.
--
*I took an IQ test and the results were negative.
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
rrh
> products, in the case of the Hydroflow.
Sadly I'm not. But thanks to you and others for comments.
John Rumm
> Hydroflow to cut scale in domestic hot water at about £140 fitted as here:
>
> www.hydropath.com (unit seems to cost about £100)
Snake oil most would say...
> and/or MagnaClean Professional filter to remove iron oxide particles from CH
> system at £250 fitted as here:
Does what it says on the tin, but is is attempting to cure a symptom
rather than the real problem.
> We are in a very hard water area and shower screens etc do get very
> encrusted with scale. But googling the group suggests these Hydroflow
> thingies aren't useful.
If you want soft water, then fit an ion exchange water softener...
--
Cheers,
John.
/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/
Ed Sirett
> rrh wrote:
>
>> Hydroflow to cut scale in domestic hot water at about £140 fitted as
>> here:
>>
>> www.hydropath.com (unit seems to cost about £100)
>
> Snake oil most would say...
>
>> and/or MagnaClean Professional filter to remove iron oxide particles
>> from CH system at £250 fitted as here:
>
> Does what it says on the tin, but is is attempting to cure a symptom
> rather than the real problem.
>
>> We are in a very hard water area and shower screens etc do get very
>> encrusted with scale. But googling the group suggests these Hydroflow
>> thingies aren't useful.
>
> If you want soft water, then fit an ion exchange water softener...
If you simply don't want the scale to build up in the boielr then dosing
with phosphates also works.
--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
John Stumbles
> If you simply don't want the scale to build up in the boielr then dosing
> with phosphates also works.
BTW Screwfix now do a monster canister scale reducer
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/20315/
which looks as if it shouldn't block up the way the smaller (and more
expensive) Permutit/Culligan canister types are prone to doing. Which
they're also now selling too.
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/68371
The cartridge for the 20315 contains polyphosphate crystal pebbles - about
the size or marbles - which you should be able to replace without throwing
away the plastic housing, if you can find a source (possibly refills for
Boilermates?)
--
John Stumbles
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.
Ed Sirett
> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 22:56:21 +0000, Ed Sirett wrote:
>
>> If you simply don't want the scale to build up in the boielr then
>> dosing with phosphates also works.
>
> BTW Screwfix now do a monster canister scale reducer
> http://www.screwfix.com/prods/20315/
> which looks as if it shouldn't block up the way the smaller (and more
> expensive) Permutit/Culligan canister types are prone to doing. Which
> they're also now selling too.
> http://www.screwfix.com/prods/68371
>
> The cartridge for the 20315 contains polyphosphate crystal pebbles -
> about the size or marbles - which you should be able to replace without
> throwing away the plastic housing, if you can find a source (possibly
> refills for Boilermates?)
That was my first question, these devices are no good unless the refills
are available (it might be that the refills are nearly the cost of the
new units...).
I noticed in the CORGI comic that there is talk of making scale reducers
mandatory. I would have to find and look closely at the article to decide
if its:
Actual building reg in the pipeline.
Wished for building reg.
Planted copy by a manufacturer.
I always tick the box saying "has a scale reducer been fitted" NO.
If I /have/ to install one then I would like one that uses verifiable and
repeatable principles and results rather than witchcraft.
Doctor Drivel
<m...@privacy.net> wrote in message news:4F645D8974%brian...@lycos.co.uk...
> On 20 Jan,
> Ed Sirett <e...@makewrite.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> That was my first question, these devices are no good unless the refills
>> are available (it might be that the refills are nearly the cost of the
>> new units...).
>>
>> I noticed in the CORGI comic that there is talk of making scale reducers
>> mandatory. I would have to find and look closely at the article to decide
>> if its:
>> Actual building reg in the pipeline.
>> Wished for building reg.
>> Planted copy by a manufacturer.
>>
>> I always tick the box saying "has a scale reducer been fitted" NO.
>> If I /have/ to install one then I would like one that uses verifiable and
>> repeatable principles and results rather than witchcraft.
>
> had
> neglgible scale after 25 years of regular boiling. If mandatory I hope
> it's
> only where the water is harder than here.
Where are you?
Stuart Noble
I thought phosphates had been outlawed
Andy Hall
<stuart_no...@ntlworld.com> said:
Not for this application. The amounts involved are tiny. This is
not a Calgon level of operation - the intent is simply to prevent scale
formation, and that does not need a lot of phosphate release.
John Stumbles
> That was my first question, these devices are no good unless the refills
> are available (it might be that the refills are nearly the cost of the
> new units...).
No, about half price in each case. Disappointingly screwfix arene't doing
refills for the smaller (but more expensive) metal canister type but you
can get them for about £15 from B&Q (and no doubt many PMs). They do
refils for the bigger (cheaper) whole-house unit but I was saying I don't
think you need to be tied to these since you can easily refill the unit if
you can get suitable pebble-type cyrstals of polyphosphate.
In either case refills shouldn't be a problem since the units are made by
Culligan & Permutit (are they the same company?)
> I noticed in the CORGI comic that there is talk of making scale reducers
> mandatory.
They are anyway, kind-of: if the MI says so then you have to, and W-B's
instructions (at least) do say so.
> I would have to find and look closely at the article to
> decide if its:
> Actual building reg in the pipeline.
> Wished for building reg.
> Planted copy by a manufacturer.
I'm sure I came across a requirement reading some regs the other day but
damned if I can remember which. Possibly a BS, although all I can find at
the moment is in BS5446:2000
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
5.2.8 Scale formation
COMMENTARY AND RECOMMENDATIONS
Measures to prevent the formation of scale should be considered.
Hard water may deposit scale in pipes, fittings and the waterways of
appliances, but does not normally cause corrosion. Excessive deposits
cause restriction of water flow in pipes and fittings and may lead to
overheating in appliances. The amount of scale deposited depends upon the
temporary hardness present in the water and the temperature to which it is
raised. Scale deposit can be minimized by the use of a proprietary
chemical treatment or other devices acceptable to the water supplier. The
appliance manufacturer can usually offer further advice."
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
--
John Stumbles
Women always generalise
valenci...@gmail.com
George Peters
Capitol
Dave Plowman (News)
> > HydroFlow is recommended by Plumber's World as the best descaler. I
> > have used one for years. worth every penny.
> So, we're back to snake oil again after only 7 years!
without one. In London, which is a hard water area.
--
*Okay, who stopped the payment on my reality check? *
Bob Eager
> In article <hc2dnZbbbfpCcLXI...@brightview.co.uk>,
> Capitol <sp...@wher.eva.co.uk> wrote:
>> > HydroFlow is recommended by Plumber's World as the best descaler. I
>> > have used one for years. worth every penny.
>
>> So, we're back to snake oil again after only 7 years!
>
> Quite. Makes me wonder how my system has worked just fine for 40 odd
> years without one. In London, which is a hard water area.
element in our washing machine after 12 years (hard water area). But it
had practically no scale on it - the integrated gasket had failed.
--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £30a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor
Dave Plowman (News)
> Same with the way they push Calgon at you. I had to change the heater
> element in our washing machine after 12 years (hard water area). But it
> had practically no scale on it - the integrated gasket had failed.
over the average life of a washing machine.
--
*I have my own little world - but it's OK...they know me here*
harryagain
<valenci...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:8b4528f1-e190-4594...@googlegroups.com...
Absolutely no evidence these magnetic/electronic descaling/ hard water
improver devices work.
Ion exchange softening devices do work. (The ones you put salt in).
OTOH The magnetic traps for your central heating circuit are a good thing.
Especially if you have had a new boiler fitted.
If your fitter can't get an immersion heater out of your cylinder, he is a
tosser.
I used to do this regularly years ago and never once failed.
Fredxxx
like they used to.
harryagain
"Fredxxx" <fre...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:mgbrb8$nq$1...@dont-email.me...
Or there is a financial incentive/work creation.