Kettle won’t stay on

[Tim+]

Our previously reliable electric kettle has taken to turning itself off a
few seconds after turning it on. If I hold the switch down it boils as
normal. It’s turning itself off long before and steam is generated so it
can’t be the normal cut-out that’s tripping and only if the kettle is
powered so it seems unlikely that it’s a simple mechanical fault.

Anyone got any ideas as to what might be wrong? I’ve had a quick shufty
and there’s some surface corrosion on a spring disk that forms part of the
switch but not a lot. Can’t see how/why that would limit the switch to a
few seconds of functioning.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

[Bob Eager]

If it's cordless, look at the contacts between the kettle and the base.
They're usually concentric, so you can spin the kettle round to clean
them.

DAMHIKT

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

[Nick Odell]

Just to add a couple of things to Bob Eager's post (which, by the way,
is showing on Google Groups but doesn't seem to have arrived yet at
ES)

These kettles are designed to be removed from the base after the
switch has clicked off. Consequently, cheaply made kettles (which may
still be expensive to purchase) often have very robust plating on the
switch contacts but rubbish plating on the base contacts. Lifting the
kettle before it has been switched off often causes arcing which
leaves those base contacts pitted and hard to keep bright.

Some of the kettle bases are made from thermoplastics which gradually
deform under the heat and the weight of the kettle. They can reach a
point where the contacts are only just touching and a little bit of
heating makes them drop down and fall away - such as when you start to
boil the water. The centre contacts of the kettles I've come across
all appear to have the same dimensions so the bases are
interchangeable. I solved one kettle problem by swapping the faulty
base with another with a smaller diameter and another by swapping the
faulty centre hub from one into another.

I even had a kettle and base combination that I really liked so, when
it collapsed into itself, I remoulded the base and stuffed the inside
with more plastic so that it couldn't collapse again. I really don't
recommend doing that unless you are a bit potty like me and I suspect
it wouldn't meet safety standards any more.

Nick

[Davey]

On Sat, 04 Feb 2023 16:04:02 +0000
Nick Odell <nicko...@yahoo.ca> wrote:

> Just to add a couple of things to Bob Eager's post (which, by the way,
> is showing on Google Groups but doesn't seem to have arrived yet at
> ES)

I got his post from E-S marked as at 3:15, and that was about when I
read it, before your post appeared, marked as 4:04.
--
Davey.

[Tim+]

See my reply to Bob. The kettle is actually switching off, not just losing
power.

[Tim+]

Bob Eager <news...@eager.cx> wrote:
> On Sat, 04 Feb 2023 14:31:39 +0000, Tim+ wrote:
>
>> Our previously reliable electric kettle has taken to turning itself off
>> a few seconds after turning it on. If I hold the switch down it boils
>> as normal. It’s turning itself off long before and steam is generated
>> so it can’t be the normal cut-out that’s tripping and only if the kettle
>> is powered so it seems unlikely that it’s a simple mechanical fault.
>>
>> Anyone got any ideas as to what might be wrong? I’ve had a quick shufty
>> and there’s some surface corrosion on a spring disk that forms part of
>> the switch but not a lot. Can’t see how/why that would limit the switch
>> to a few seconds of functioning.
>
> If it's cordless, look at the contacts between the kettle and the base.
> They're usually concentric, so you can spin the kettle round to clean
> them.
>
> DAMHIKT
>

That would just stop it heating up, not make the switch click off.

[Tim+]

Nick Odell <nicko...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> On 4 Feb 2023 14:31:39 GMT, Tim+ <tim.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Our previously reliable electric kettle has taken to turning itself off a
>> few seconds after turning it on. If I hold the switch down it boils as
>> normal. It’s turning itself off long before and steam is generated so it
>> can’t be the normal cut-out that’s tripping and only if the kettle is
>> powered so it seems unlikely that it’s a simple mechanical fault.
>>
>> Anyone got any ideas as to what might be wrong? I’ve had a quick shufty
>> and there’s some surface corrosion on a spring disk that forms part of the
>> switch but not a lot. Can’t see how/why that would limit the switch to a
>> few seconds of functioning.
>>
> Just to add a couple of things to Bob Eager's post (which, by the way,
> is showing on Google Groups but doesn't seem to have arrived yet at
> ES)
>
> These kettles are designed to be removed from the base after the
> switch has clicked off. Consequently, cheaply made kettles (which may
> still be expensive to purchase) often have very robust plating on the
> switch contacts but rubbish plating on the base contacts. Lifting the
> kettle before it has been switched off often causes arcing which
> leaves those base contacts pitted and hard to keep bright.

I’m not sure you’re right.

My kettles have a central pin (non-current carrying) that passes through
into the base which switches the power off to the two annular contacts
before the kettle is clear of them when it’s lifted.

Ours is a cheap Asda kettle which has kept us going for many year and has
often been lifted off the base before it’s switched itself off. The
contacts in the kettle base are in good condition.


A further clarification that may help with diagnosis though…

When I turn my kettle on, the LEDs come on, indicating power to the kettle.
After several seconds a faint click comes from the bottom of the kettle
itself (not the lift off base) and the LEDs go out and the kettle stops
heating. The actual main switch that I depress to turn the kettle on stays
in the on position.

It’s sounds like a stat or relay of some sort that is responding to current
flow but it’s not at all obvious where it is.

I think I need to find a way of powering it up whilst I’ve got the kettle
partially dismembered. ;-)

[Davey]

On 4 Feb 2023 19:51:50 GMT

"Open Heat Surgery?"

--
Davey.

[Joe]

On 4 Feb 2023 19:51:50 GMT
Tim+ <tim.d...@gmail.com> wrote:

Not being very helpful, but the switch mechanism has the extra
complication of responding to the state of boiling, so the mechanical
state keeping the switch on gets flipped off by a relatively small
movement. You might be looking either for a fastening having loosened
and made the mechanism 'hair trigger', or possibly that something has
distorted with time and heat and now sits much closer to the 'turn it
off' state.

It may take only ten seconds for a turned-on kettle to start making
noise, and I suspect that low-level vibration will occur before it
actually becomes audible.

--
Joe

[Tim+]

Except, it’s not the main kettle switch that’s clicking off, it’s something
else in the base of the kettle that’s cutting the power.

[Joe]

On 4 Feb 2023 21:23:02 GMT

Tim+ <tim.d...@gmail.com> wrote:


>
> Except, it’s not the main kettle switch that’s clicking off, it’s
> something else in the base of the kettle that’s cutting the power.
>

Thermal cutout in the event of boiling dry? Any limescale in the bottom
of the kettle that might allow the element to get hotter than intended?
Otherwise possibly the cutout is actually faulty.

--
Joe

[Bob Eager]

No, it was one of the sensor contacts. Worked for me on a lot of
occasions.

[Animal]

there isn't anything else that's at all likely to do that. Dirty contacts would heat the thing that turns off when hot, so it might be that. Sometimes they can be cleaned enough just by operating the switch many times vigorously without power.

[John J]

At current cost to replace with an El cheapo supermarket kettle I wouldn't waste more than five minutes of my time on it.

[Paul]

There's an example of a thermal cutoff in the bottom of this one.

https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Ovente+Electric+Kettle+KS88+Series+Disassembly/137016

Not that seeing it open, is helping me.

I presume a worn item with wear and tear on it,
would give away its secret that way.

It could be that the element has come loose of the base (corrosion),
and the water is no longer sinking the heat.

Paul

[The Natural Philosopher]

Scaled up kettles dont respond too well, either

--
Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

[Jeff Gaines]

On 05/02/2023 in message <trnpa0$2e04l$3...@dont-email.me> The Natural

Philosopher wrote:

>>It may take only ten seconds for a turned-on kettle to start making
>>noise, and I suspect that low-level vibration will occur before it
>>actually becomes audible.
>>
>
>Scaled up kettles dont respond too well, either

Yes, I have that with mine - opposite issue in that if it's scaled up it
doesn't turn itself off.

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
There are 10 types of people in the world, those who do binary and those
who don't.

[Tim+]

Thanks for that! Very helpful.

[Tim+]

It’s already been replaced, but I’d still like to fix it if possible (as a
reserve) as it’s otherwise a nice kettle with a lid mechanism that looks
better constructed than its replacement.

[GB]

On 04/02/2023 21:37, Bob Eager wrote:
> On Sat, 04 Feb 2023 19:31:17 +0000, Tim+ wrote:
>
>> Bob Eager <news...@eager.cx> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 04 Feb 2023 14:31:39 +0000, Tim+ wrote:
>>>
>>>> Our previously reliable electric kettle has taken to turning itself
>>>> off a few seconds after turning it on. If I hold the switch down it
>>>> boils as normal. It’s turning itself off long before and steam is
>>>> generated so it can’t be the normal cut-out that’s tripping and only
>>>> if the kettle is powered so it seems unlikely that it’s a simple
>>>> mechanical fault.
>>>>
>>>> Anyone got any ideas as to what might be wrong? I’ve had a quick
>>>> shufty and there’s some surface corrosion on a spring disk that forms
>>>> part of the switch but not a lot. Can’t see how/why that would limit
>>>> the switch to a few seconds of functioning.
>>>
>>> If it's cordless, look at the contacts between the kettle and the base.
>>> They're usually concentric, so you can spin the kettle round to clean
>>> them.
>>>
>>> DAMHIKT
>>>
>>>
>> That would just stop it heating up, not make the switch click off.
>
> No, it was one of the sensor contacts. Worked for me on a lot of
> occasions.

We have a Bosch variable temperature kettle, and I agree with Bob that
cleaning the contacts has extended the life of the kettle by years.

[GB]

On 04/02/2023 19:31, Tim+ wrote:

> See my reply to Bob. The kettle is actually switching off, not just losing
> power.
>

Ours does that if any of the contacts goes open circuit. It's a variable
temperature kettle, so there are several contacts, not just the power to
the element, and losing any of them makes it switch off.

[Brian Gaff]

I had this with a Murphy Richards one, and after a few squirts of wd 40, it
worked. The normal kettle switch will not stay on if there is no power, so I
can only assume that there is some way this is detected, and muck and
limescale probably wedges this so it does not lock properly and hence it
randomly falls out of lock.

However I have another old kettle that works fine, but will not take the
water to boiling, and I'd suspect this has some form of bi metal strip in
it, rather than the steam system others use.
Brian

--

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[Brian Gaff]

No if the power is removed, most kettle switches click off. Its a
possibility, but it depends how old it is and things like that. The contact
on the base is only live when a central plunger is pressed by a part of the
kettle, and this is yet another switch to worry about.

Brian

--

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[Max Demian]

On 05/02/2023 12:00, Brian Gaff wrote:

> I had this with a Murphy Richards one, and after a few squirts of wd 40, it
> worked. The normal kettle switch will not stay on if there is no power, so I
> can only assume that there is some way this is detected, and muck and
> limescale probably wedges this so it does not lock properly and hence it
> randomly falls out of lock.

My £13 ASDA kettle doesn't flip the switch off if you turn off the
power; it comes back on when power is resumed. The main switch flips if
you raise it manually, remove the kettle from the stand, or when it
boils. There is also a lever in the circular contact thing on the base
that cuts the power to the contacts when raised. It is pressed down by
the neutral ring.

(I bought one of the original Russell Hobbs "Forgettles" in 1978 and
used it well into this century: I only got rid of it because it
developed a slight leak: otherwise it worked perfectly, but was not
quite as convenient to use as the modern so-called cordless ones.)

--
Max Demian

[Tim+]

Max Demian <max_d...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> On 05/02/2023 12:00, Brian Gaff wrote:
>
>> I had this with a Murphy Richards one, and after a few squirts of wd 40, it
>> worked. The normal kettle switch will not stay on if there is no power, so I
>> can only assume that there is some way this is detected, and muck and
>> limescale probably wedges this so it does not lock properly and hence it
>> randomly falls out of lock.
>
> My £13 ASDA kettle doesn't flip the switch off if you turn off the
> power; it comes back on when power is resumed. The main switch flips if
> you raise it manually, remove the kettle from the stand, or when it
> boils. There is also a lever in the circular contact thing on the base
> that cuts the power to the contacts when raised. It is pressed down by
> the neutral ring.
>

Ditto with mine. I can fill it and switch it on with no power and turn it
on later with a Wi-Fi switch.

Anyway, an update.

I was able to loosen the kettle’s power receiving socket and on the
underside there were two spring discs that seemed to be linked by push-rods
to some inaccessible contacts. There was some dried up thermal paste
around so I thought it couldn’t hurt to try replacing this. This had the
opposite effect though. Kettle wouldn’t turn on at all! Just the briefest
of flashes from the LEDs.

So, then I tried removing all the paste but again this made no difference.
I’m sure it should have some paste but clearly I’ve disturbed something
during my repeated disassembly and assembly.

I’ve given up. ;-)

[Animal]

On Sunday, 5 February 2023 at 07:18:14 UTC, johnje...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, 4 February 2023 at 14:31:44 UTC, Tim+ wrote:
> > Our previously reliable electric kettle has taken to turning itself off a
> > few seconds after turning it on. If I hold the switch down it boils as
> > normal. It’s turning itself off long before and steam is generated so it
> > can’t be the normal cut-out that’s tripping and only if the kettle is
> > powered so it seems unlikely that it’s a simple mechanical fault.
> >
> > Anyone got any ideas as to what might be wrong? I’ve had a quick shufty
> > and there’s some surface corrosion on a spring disk that forms part of the
> > switch but not a lot. Can’t see how/why that would limit the switch to a
> > few seconds of functioning.
> >
> > Tim

> At current cost to replace with an El cheapo supermarket kettle I wouldn't waste more than five minutes of my time on it.

5 minutes for £20 = £240 an hour. I daresay most diyers don't make that much. The days of £3 kettles are over.

[Animal]

can't see the pics, but usually there's a bimetal switch plus a one shot overheat cutout. It can't be the latter misbehaving in this case, it can only really be the bimetal.

[Max Demian]

Well new ones are cheap enough. ASDA still sell a similar one to mine:
https://direct.asda.com/george/home/kettles-toasters/black-kettle-17l/050462862,default,pd.html

(Previously I had a Wilko one but the stirrup that works the switch fell
off so I glued it back on with Araldite but now it only switches on from
completely cold, so I keep it as a spare.)

--
Max Demian

[Paul]

That must be the "invisible tampering sensor" :-)

Paul

[Sargan]

On 04/02/2023 14:31, Tim+ wrote:
>
> Our previously reliable electric kettle has taken to turning itself off a
> few seconds after turning it on. If I hold the switch down it boils as
> normal. It’s turning itself off long before and steam is generated so it
> can’t be the normal cut-out that’s tripping and only if the kettle is
> powered so it seems unlikely that it’s a simple mechanical fault.
>
> Anyone got any ideas as to what might be wrong? I’ve had a quick shufty
> and there’s some surface corrosion on a spring disk that forms part of the
> switch but not a lot. Can’t see how/why that would limit the switch to a
> few seconds of functioning.
>

> Tim
>
superglue the switch down