Bi-Fold Doors - hanging on hinges?

[paint...@googlemail.com]

This might be a daft question, but I can't see an answer from the
various literature on the web etc TP were pretty clueless too...

Like many, our downstairs toilet is small and I am re-fitting it (loo/
sink/boxing etc). To try and make more room I am toying with the idea
of replacing the standard 30" opening-inwards door with a bi-fold
door. We have some of these on an airing cupboard and they work ok.
They slide in a top rail, and have a floor mount pivot in the
corner.

So all Bi-fold internal doors usually mount in this way?

Can a bi-fold door be mounted on 3 standard hinges on a standard door
frame instead?
I want to avoid having anything in the floor if I can.

Note that it will be the basic bi-fold panel white primed door that
Wickes/B&Q/Magnet etc all sell. It will not be a heavy solid pine
affair.

Painters10

[paint...@googlemail.com]

Ever used bi-fold interior doors?

I'm in the process of planning the next room to do up, the downstairs
loo. It's kinda small, and I want to box in the pipes and fit a
concealed cistern, and tile floor and walls to match. All to try and
make it feel bigger and more modern.

But this means moving the tiny sink further towards the (opening-
inwards) door and it will clash. I've thought of hinging the door the
other side, but that will not give a very wide opening to get into the
toilet. I also thought of hinging the door top open outwards into the
hall, but there is a safety aspect there, with two small kiddies
running around.

So I had the idea of replacing the standard 30" door with a bi-fold
internal type as sold by Wickes/B&Q/Magnet etc
We've got some of these on our airing cupboard and they work OK, and
slide in a top rail, with a floor mount pivot.

Do they always mount like this? Or can I simply hang the pair of
doors on 3 standard hinges, in a standard door frame? I am only
talking basic white primed hollow door, not a heavyweight solid type.

Have you ever seen this done? Does it work?

Painters10

[Dave Liquorice]

On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 02:55:47 -0700 (PDT), paint...@googlemail.com wrote:

> Ever used bi-fold interior doors?

Yes, but only once.

Why have you posted this twice? Daft question google fecking groups...

> Do they always mount like this? Or can I simply hang the pair of
> doors on 3 standard hinges, in a standard door frame?

I think you'll run into problems unless the door frame is *exactly* plumb
(left to right and front to back) and square. You can probably set fixed
hinges such that the door is fine closed *or* open but not both, bi-fold
doors are weird things when you open/close 'em.

Fiddling about moving ordinary hinges a mm in/out of the jamb or a mm
further away or in is not simple. Doing it with the adjustable top and
bottom pivots and a plumb line is *much* easier.

--
Cheers
Dave.

[Andy Hall]

Yes this can be done - I've done it with a very heavy solid oak door
for a different application, so it will certainly work with a panel
door.

The challenge is a suitable latch and lock mechanism, but a claw bolt
or sliding door latch will do the job there.

http://locksonline.co.uk/acatalog/Sliding_Door_Locks_.html

[The Medway Handyman]

Dave Liquorice wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 02:55:47 -0700 (PDT), paint...@googlemail.com
> wrote:
>
>> Ever used bi-fold interior doors?
>
> Yes, but only once.

I've fitted half a dozen at least and repaired half a dozen more.

>
> Why have you posted this twice? Daft question google fecking
> groups...

I wondered that as well :-)

>
>> Do they always mount like this? Or can I simply hang the pair of
>> doors on 3 standard hinges, in a standard door frame?

I think you will find there is a very good reason they do all mount like
that.....

> I think you'll run into problems unless the door frame is *exactly*
> plumb (left to right and front to back) and square. You can probably
> set fixed hinges such that the door is fine closed *or* open but not
> both, bi-fold doors are weird things when you open/close 'em.
>

Exactly. Chances of getting two sets of opposite acting hinges to work
properly is remote.

> Fiddling about moving ordinary hinges a mm in/out of the jamb or a mm
> further away or in is not simple. Doing it with the adjustable top and
> bottom pivots and a plumb line is *much* easier.

Indeed. The top & bottom pivots are the key to them working properly.
There isnt anything on the floor except in the corner under the door.

Two points. You can't really trim bi-fold doors to fit the opening. The
opening has to be adjusted to fit the door. Second, watch out for the
bottom pivot. Its a threaded metal thingy that is screwed into a threaded
plastic insert in the door. Very easy to strip the thread in the plastic
insert. The last two sets I fitted were from Homebase & seemed much better
because the plastic insert was bigger.

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

[paint...@googlemail.com]

Sorry about the double post, one was meant as an email! Doh!

Thanks for the responses. I will measure how square the frame is, and
decide whether to risk it based on that.

Painters10

[1501]

In addition to confirming the opening is plumb and square you can
apply a further risk reduction measure.

Use a router (with depth stop set) and a hinge jig to ensure all the
hinge leaf recesses are alike. That way the door leaf furthest from
the hinged jam should lie truely parallel to it.

Good luck.

[goo...@sheerstock.fsnet.co.uk]

On Apr 18, 9:05 pm, "The Medway Handyman" >   Exactly.  Chances of

getting two sets of opposite acting hinges to work
> properly is remote.

In what way?

>
>   > Fiddling about moving ordinary hinges a mm in/out of the jamb or a mm
>   > further away or in is not simple. Doing it with the adjustable top and
>   > bottom pivots and a plumb line is *much* easier.
>
>   Indeed.  The top & bottom pivots are the key to them working properly.
> There isnt anything on the floor except in the corner under the door.
>
>   Two points.  You can't really trim bi-fold doors to fit the opening.

Doesn't that rather depend on the doors? I managed it, at least to the
same extent as you would trim any door.

> The
> opening has to be adjusted to fit the door.

No it doesn't. I fitted two sets of bifolds on hinges across an
opening with flush bolts to hold the various leaves closed when not
open. It wasn't that hard and they work just fine. I agree with the
other poster to use a router for the hinge recesses. My only regret is
not using parliament hinges so that they would fold back further
against the wall, but that's a job for another day.

Andrew

[The Medway Handyman]

goo...@sheerstock.fsnet.co.uk wrote:
> On Apr 18, 9:05 pm, "The Medway Handyman" > Exactly. Chances of
> getting two sets of opposite acting hinges to work
>> properly is remote.
>
> In what way?

In as much as if one set is slightly out of kilter it will make adjusting
the opposite acting hinge difficult.

>
>>
>>> Fiddling about moving ordinary hinges a mm in/out of the jamb or a
>>> mm further away or in is not simple. Doing it with the adjustable
>>> top and bottom pivots and a plumb line is *much* easier.
>>
>> Indeed. The top & bottom pivots are the key to them working properly.
>> There isnt anything on the floor except in the corner under the door.
>>
>> Two points. You can't really trim bi-fold doors to fit the opening.
>
> Doesn't that rather depend on the doors? I managed it, at least to the
> same extent as you would trim any door.

I suppose it does, I've only ever hung el cheapo DIY store bi-folds. The
pivot holes are very close to the door edges without trimming the door as
well.

>
>> The
>> opening has to be adjusted to fit the door.
>
> No it doesn't. I fitted two sets of bifolds on hinges across an
> opening with flush bolts to hold the various leaves closed when not
> open. It wasn't that hard and they work just fine.

It does according the the instructions included with the doors. It
specifically warns against trimming the door & suggests inserting fillets if
needed.