Only one chance to drill tile

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john eastwood

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Jan 23, 2011, 5:51:47 AM1/23/11
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Complete novice (and simpleton) needs to drill into two kitchen wall tiles
to put up a magnetic knife rack. The tiles are ancient, and if i crack them
or drill out of level tiles could not be replaced with matching ones.

It's also right near the sink where 'she who must be obeyed' will see it all
day. If i mess up, i'm dead or worse.

I've seen a workman drill into kitchen tiles and initially his drill goes
'all over the place' until it 'bites'. He's probably had a lot of
experience at this, i'm guessing that for me it would bite in the wrong
place.

Grateful for any tips on the 'safest' way for me to drill the tiles.
Thanks.


Gordon Henderson

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Jan 23, 2011, 6:00:44 AM1/23/11
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In article <ihh199$nde$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,

Get a proper tile drill. Parallel shank with a trangle shaped tip with a
sharp point. Go slow and use that to go through the glaze and most of
the tile, then see what lies beyond - you might then need a conventional
masonry drill.

Gordon

Adrian C

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Jan 23, 2011, 6:14:52 AM1/23/11
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On 23/01/2011 10:51, john eastwood wrote:
> Complete novice (and simpleton) needs to drill into two kitchen wall tiles
> to put up a magnetic knife rack. The tiles are ancient, and if i crack them
> or drill out of level tiles could not be replaced with matching ones.
>
> It's also right near the sink where 'she who must be obeyed' will see it all
> day. If i mess up, i'm dead or worse.

Have a go. You may be successful and there are ways to stop a drill
skidding.

The last time I did this was to start with a small 3mm new masonary
drill, switch the hammer action off, apply light pressure - and get
close in tight with the wall so that there was no axial wobbling about.
Then when the glaze was glowing (from friction) then broken, I swapped
up to larger drills. But I ain't no pro.

In case of no success, plan B. Cover the afflicted area with a plank of
wood and screw the rack to that. Pub food for the next week ain't that
bad....

--
Adrian C

The Medway Handyman

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Jan 23, 2011, 6:22:32 AM1/23/11
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On 23/01/2011 10:51, john eastwood wrote:

Get a Bosch Multi Material drill bit kike this:-

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Power+Tool+Accessories/Masonry+Drill+Bits/Multi+Construction+TCT+Drill+Bit+60+x+100/d80/sd1350/p96753


You also need a drill with good speed control.

These multi material drills have a very sharp point, unlike a normal
masonry bit. Position it, push hard & you will hear & feel the bit
penetrate the glaze on the tile. Now it won't wander about.

Now start the drill on low speed, no hammer, and slowly drill through
the tile.

Once through the tile speed up & use hammer action if required.

Use wall plugs 'without' a lip like these:-
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Screws+Fixings/Wall+Plugs/Nylon+Plug+6+mm/d90/sd2060/p51158

Make sure the plug goes behind the tile, the end can expand as the screw
goes in & crack the tile.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Lobster

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Jan 23, 2011, 6:37:38 AM1/23/11
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On 23/01/2011 11:00, Gordon Henderson wrote:
> In article<ihh199$nde$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> john eastwood<bluest...@mail.invalid> wrote:
>> Complete novice (and simpleton) needs to drill into two kitchen wall tiles
>> to put up a magnetic knife rack. The tiles are ancient, and if i crack them
>> or drill out of level tiles could not be replaced with matching ones.
>>
>> It's also right near the sink where 'she who must be obeyed' will see it all
>> day. If i mess up, i'm dead or worse.
>>
>> I've seen a workman drill into kitchen tiles and initially his drill goes
>> 'all over the place' until it 'bites'. He's probably had a lot of
>> experience at this, i'm guessing that for me it would bite in the wrong
>> place.

Stick a piece of insulating or masking tape on the tile where you're
drilling; that will stop it wandering. May need a couple of layers to
make it thicker.

>> Grateful for any tips on the 'safest' way for me to drill the tiles.
>> Thanks.
>
> Get a proper tile drill. Parallel shank with a trangle shaped tip with a
> sharp point. Go slow and use that to go through the glaze and most of
> the tile, then see what lies beyond - you might then need a conventional
> masonry drill.

I used to use an expensive tile drill bit until someone (here I think?)
years ago told me that standard masonry bits work fine.

That's what I've used ever since - and have never broken a tile by
drilling it.

The only time I *did* once come to grief is by not drilling a hole large
enough, so once the wall plug was inserted and the screw tightened...
CRACK! Be warned ;)

David


Ronald Raygun

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Jan 23, 2011, 6:36:30 AM1/23/11
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john eastwood wrote:

It would be a nightmare even for a professional to drill two holes in
exactly the right relative positions. Don't even try this unless the
rack design has already made provision for correcting for this, typically
by its own holes (through which the mounting screws go) not being
circular but elongated into ovals, one horizontal, the other vertical.

One alternative option might be to mount the rack on a wooden plinth.
Then you can drill the wall holes first, probably about an inch or two
further apart than the rack's own holes. Expect the wall holes to be
out of kilter, you can correct for this by drilling the plinth to match
the wall holes (use a piece of tracing or greaseproof paper, cut to the
shape of the plinth, aligned to lie exactly parallel to the tile edges,
to transfer the holes to the back of the plinth). Countersink the front
of the holes, mount the plinth to the wall, then mount the rack to the
plinth.

Option two: Consider using adhesive instead of screws. In fact, consider
screwing the rack to a wooden plinth as above, but then using adhesive
to fix the plinth to the tiles. You need to give the tiles a decent clean
first, and use something like Sikaflex to stick it on.

Option three (I think this is by far the best): Throw away the magnetic
rack and store the knives where they belong: in a drawer. To persuade
her of the wisdom of this, you could point out that in the drawer the knives
will stay clean, whereas if out in the open 24/7, they will catch all the
damp and grease you expect to be flying about in a kitchen, and in turn dust
will stick to them, etc.

Tim Watts

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Jan 23, 2011, 7:02:52 AM1/23/11
to
Gordon Henderson (gordon...@drogon.net) wibbled on Sunday 23 January
2011 11:00:

> In article <ihh199$nde$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> john eastwood <bluest...@mail.invalid> wrote:
>>Complete novice (and simpleton) needs to drill into two kitchen wall tiles
>>to put up a magnetic knife rack. The tiles are ancient, and if i crack
>>them or drill out of level tiles could not be replaced with matching ones.
>>
>>It's also right near the sink where 'she who must be obeyed' will see it
>>all day. If i mess up, i'm dead or worse.
>>

If she whines, tell her to do it herself!

>>I've seen a workman drill into kitchen tiles and initially his drill goes
>>'all over the place' until it 'bites'. He's probably had a lot of
>>experience at this, i'm guessing that for me it would bite in the wrong
>>place.
>>
>>Grateful for any tips on the 'safest' way for me to drill the tiles.
>>Thanks.
>
> Get a proper tile drill. Parallel shank with a trangle shaped tip with a
> sharp point. Go slow and use that to go through the glaze and most of
> the tile, then see what lies beyond - you might then need a conventional
> masonry drill.
>
> Gordon

+1

Yep - I have had quite a few "one chance" holes to do.

Take the tile drill, press it gently into the glaze until you get the
faintest of "crunchy" noises - that's the tip biting the glaze. Now it
should not wander. Start the drill on slow with the lowest of pressures and
allow the drill to grind its way in. Do not use hammer obviously. Go as far
into the plaster as possible so the hole in the tile has parallel edges. Now
you can go through with a masonry drill to deal with the brick if any. If
it's just a plasterboard wall or celcon "cheeseblock" the tile drill will
manage.

Also, it is best IME to use a rawlplug that does not expand at the top - or
one that can be pushed past the tile (ie a plug that does not have a top
lip). You do not want the screw (more so with big screws) to expand and
crack the tile. Probably won't be an issue for the little screws the knife
rack needs, but worth remembering for bigger jobs.

One further thing - if the screws can be put in a grout line, it reduces the
risk to the tiles, but also if the rack is removed and the holes grouted
over, the repair is nearly invisible.

Cheers

Tim

--
Tim Watts

Tim Watts

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Jan 23, 2011, 7:10:29 AM1/23/11
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Ronald Raygun (no....@localhost.localdomain) wibbled on Sunday 23 January
2011 11:36:


> It would be a nightmare even for a professional to drill two holes in
> exactly the right relative positions. Don't even try this unless the
> rack design has already made provision for correcting for this, typically
> by its own holes (through which the mounting screws go) not being
> circular but elongated into ovals, one horizontal, the other vertical.

I don't agree - I have not been in the habit of drilling tiles
untilrecently, but with a bit of care and the right tile bits, I got mine
spot on to the mm. I had several brackets that needed fairly precise
mounting. It's getting the tip to bite the glaze before starting the drill
that makes the difference - once that is done, I've had no problems with
wander.



> One alternative option might be to mount the rack on a wooden plinth.
> Then you can drill the wall holes first, probably about an inch or two
> further apart than the rack's own holes. Expect the wall holes to be
> out of kilter, you can correct for this by drilling the plinth to match
> the wall holes (use a piece of tracing or greaseproof paper, cut to the
> shape of the plinth, aligned to lie exactly parallel to the tile edges,
> to transfer the holes to the back of the plinth). Countersink the front
> of the holes, mount the plinth to the wall, then mount the rack to the
> plinth.

There is that .

> Option two: Consider using adhesive instead of screws. In fact, consider
> screwing the rack to a wooden plinth as above, but then using adhesive
> to fix the plinth to the tiles. You need to give the tiles a decent clean
> first, and use something like Sikaflex to stick it on.

Pinkgrip :)

> Option three (I think this is by far the best): Throw away the magnetic
> rack and store the knives where they belong: in a drawer. To persuade
> her of the wisdom of this, you could point out that in the drawer the
> knives will stay clean, whereas if out in the open 24/7, they will catch
> all the damp and grease you expect to be flying about in a kitchen, and in
> turn dust will stick to them, etc.

--
Tim Watts

JTM

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Jan 23, 2011, 6:28:53 AM1/23/11
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In article <8q2gta...@mid.individual.net>, Adrian C

<em...@here.invalid> wrote:
> > Complete novice (and simpleton) needs to drill into two
> > kitchen wall tiles to put up a magnetic knife rack.
> > The tiles are ancient, and if i crack them or drill out
> > of level tiles could not be replaced with matching ones.
> >
> > It's also right near the sink where 'she who must be
> > obeyed' will see it all day. If i mess up, i'm dead or
> > worse.

> Have a go. You may be successful and there are ways to
> stop a drill skidding.

Two methods I've used:
Gentle tap tap tap with hammer and nail punch to chip
through the glaze, even the smallest dimple will reduce
drill bit skidding.

Or, masking tape stuck to tile and start gently drilling
through that

John

--
John Mulrooney
NOTE Email address IS correct but might not be checked for a while.

A controlled 'plane crash is usually called a landing.

Dave Liquorice

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Jan 23, 2011, 7:48:04 AM1/23/11
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On Sun, 23 Jan 2011 11:28:53 +0000 (GMT), JTM wrote:

> Gentle tap tap tap with hammer and nail punch to chip through the glaze,
> even the smallest dimple will reduce drill bit skidding.

Yep by far the best way to get the drill to start. Not a nail punch
that is blunt, use a center punch or sharpened round wire nail. You
can position the tip of the punch/nail exactly where you want the
hole and very gently break the glaze and enlarge the pit to take the
tip of a tile drill or one of those Bosh multimaterial drills.

> Or, masking tape stuck to tile and start gently drilling through that

Never had much success with that the drill still wanders a little.

--
Cheers
Dave.

SS

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Jan 23, 2011, 8:04:58 AM1/23/11
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"Tim Watts" <t...@dionic.net> wrote in message
news:leit08-...@squidward.dionic.net...
I use the tape method (several layers)
As you havent done this before get an old tile and practice a couple of
times.
This will give you a feel for how the drill reacts on the tile.


Clive George

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Jan 23, 2011, 8:20:51 AM1/23/11
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On 23/01/2011 10:51, john eastwood wrote:

Others have said what to do, but my thought is before doing it on the
important one, why not practice somewhere else? Ok, not necessarily
trivial to set up, but would mean you know what to expect when you get
to the real thing.

Message has been deleted

Phil L

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Jan 23, 2011, 9:13:48 AM1/23/11
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Take your time!

--
some diy tips, but mostly filthy jokes:
http://tipsntricks-phil.blogspot.com/


Tabby

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Jan 23, 2011, 9:22:24 AM1/23/11
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On Jan 23, 10:51 am, "john eastwood" <bluestar00...@mail.invalid>
wrote:

Definitely use masking tape. This wont stop wander but will reduce it
usefully. Also use a tile bit, which is somewhat sharp, unlike masonry
bits. The key point I find is to put the drill on max speed before the
bit even touches the tile, if you dont do that it wanders. Use your
hand on the drill to control the initial driling position. Once the
hole's started it shouldnt wander. So now you've got just about all
the methods offered, most of which contradict each other.


NT

Roger Mills

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Jan 23, 2011, 9:23:55 AM1/23/11
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On 23/01/2011 10:51, john eastwood wrote:
I always break the glaze with an automatic (spring-loaded) centre-punch,
similar to this:
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_categoryId_165469_productId_206873_langId_-1?cm_mmc=Shopping-_-Google%20Product%20Search-_-Workshop+%26+Tools%2FHand+Tools-_-Halfords+Automatic+Centre+Punch&source=shopping&istCompanyId=b8708c57-7a02-4cf6-b2c0-dc36b54a327e&istItemId=lirmmt&istBid=t

[Or use this http://tinyurl.com/4m3zkpk if the above link doesn't wrap
properly]

I can then drill precisely in the right place.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

stuart noble

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Jan 23, 2011, 9:23:54 AM1/23/11
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> I use the tape method (several layers)

Exactly. Masking tape isn't that expensive, so push the boat out and
give yourself a nice thick layer to get the drill started :-)

I've never had a tile break when it's firmly fixed to the wall. It's
when the adhesive isn't quite dry that you can have problems.

PeterC

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Jan 23, 2011, 9:41:39 AM1/23/11
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I used to use tape but have't done so for about a kilofortnight.

Using a tile drill or small masonry bit, I start with the bit in a whell
brace, hold the wheel instead of the handle and just rock the wheel a little
bit. The bit can't wander because it does only part of a turn then goes
back. With sufficient force it grinds into the glaze quite quickly.

With cheap tiles and a sharp tile bit, I've done the same but just by
holding the bit by hand. Once put a 5mm bit through a tile just by hand -
not recommended for good tiles!
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

The Medway Handyman

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Jan 23, 2011, 10:00:53 AM1/23/11
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On 23/01/2011 13:04, SS wrote:
> "Tim Watts"<t...@dionic.net> wrote in message
> news:leit08-...@squidward.dionic.net...
>> Ronald Raygun (no....@localhost.localdomain) wibbled on Sunday 23 January
>> 2011 11:36:
>>
>>
>>> It would be a nightmare even for a professional to drill two holes in
>>> exactly the right relative positions. Don't even try this unless the
>>> rack design has already made provision for correcting for this, typically
>>> by its own holes (through which the mounting screws go) not being
>>> circular but elongated into ovals, one horizontal, the other vertical.
>>
>> I don't agree - I have not been in the habit of drilling tiles
>> until recently, but with a bit of care and the right tile bits, I got mine

>> spot on to the mm. I had several brackets that needed fairly precise
>> mounting. It's getting the tip to bite the glaze before starting the drill
>> that makes the difference - once that is done, I've had no problems with
>> wander.

Dead right. I fix things to tiles on an almost daily basis & just don't
have any problems.

Adrian C

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Jan 23, 2011, 11:22:10 AM1/23/11
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On 23/01/2011 14:22, Tabby wrote:
So now you've got just about all
> the methods offered, most of which contradict each other.
>

Angle Grinder :)

--
Adrian C


Tinkerer

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Jan 23, 2011, 11:46:27 AM1/23/11
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"john eastwood" <bluest...@mail.invalid> wrote in message
news:ihh199$nde$1...@news.eternal-september.org...

This method has never failed for me. I use a narrow masonry drill bit,
held in my hand (with a bit of cloth to protect my fingers) and just start
the hole by hand to get through the glaze. Once that is done, I switch to
the drill, with the right size bit and the job is easy. Tried once with
tape but it was more nuisance than it was worth - haven't used it again.
--
Tinkerer


Dave

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Jan 23, 2011, 12:12:08 PM1/23/11
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The problem with sharp kitchen knives in a drawer, is that they blunt
each other. Knife blocks made of wood are a hygiene problem. I would
stick to the magnetic strip.

The only time I get blunt kitchen knives is when my wife makes a
sandwich and cuts it in two on a plate. How can I teacher her?

Dave

Tim Watts

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Jan 23, 2011, 12:30:36 PM1/23/11
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Dave (dave...@btopenworld.com) wibbled on Sunday 23 January 2011 17:12:


> The problem with sharp kitchen knives in a drawer, is that they blunt
> each other.

And chop your fingers off when you are rummaging around for other things.

> Knife blocks made of wood are a hygiene problem.

In theory you *should* be putting clean knives in!!!

> I would
> stick to the magnetic strip.

But fair enough - I quite like the idea - out of reach of kids and easy to
grab one with gungy hands without contaminating the rest.

> The only time I get blunt kitchen knives is when my wife makes a
> sandwich and cuts it in two on a plate. How can I teacher her?

Make her sharpen the knives. With nothing more than a pebble and a bowl of
water. She'll learn...

> Dave

--
Tim Watts

Jonathan

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Jan 23, 2011, 12:47:55 PM1/23/11
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I always start dead slow and don't have a problem with wander. I try
to push the point of the dit into the glaze before i start drilling.
some glaze is soft enough for that to work.

Jonathan

Mr Pounder

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Jan 23, 2011, 12:53:19 PM1/23/11
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"john eastwood" <bluest...@mail.invalid> wrote in message
news:ihh199$nde$1...@news.eternal-september.org...

Just use a couple of tubes of Superglue - job done.
>
>
>


Ronald Raygun

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Jan 23, 2011, 12:45:50 PM1/23/11
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Dave wrote:

Really? Not something I've ever found, so I presume this must be because
your standards of sharpness far exceed mine. I think I prefer my version
of sharp, and frankly I reckon most people, professional cooks excepted,
would be better off with knives which are only sharpish. The slight
inconvenience of not being able to slice stuff effortlessly like the
masterchefs on the telly is more than made up for by the accidental
digital incisions being less often and less severe.

> Knife blocks made of wood are a hygiene problem.

You're not meant to stick them back in until after they've been cleaned!

> I would stick to the magnetic strip.

In that case let me suggest a compromise solution, and that is to
screw the magnetic strip to the bottom of a drawer. Just need to make
sure the drawers aren't tiled.

> The only time I get blunt kitchen knives is when my wife makes a
> sandwich and cuts it in two on a plate. How can I teacher her?

There is no way. You can't reason with a wife. She is always right
and you are always wrong. It's a lost cause trying to persuade her
to use the blunt butter knife for halving sandwiches, or to leave
sandwiches whole. You either have to accept that your knives are going
to get blunt, or get a divorce.

Or set aside some time every week for knife sharpening. Use an
angle grider for that, of course.

Skipweasel

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Jan 23, 2011, 1:05:59 PM1/23/11
to
In article <04__o.3014$Os4....@newsfe24.ams2>,
no....@localhost.localdomain says...

> and frankly I reckon most people, professional cooks excepted,
> would be better off with knives which are only sharpish.
>

Sod that. I like my favourite knife to slice freely through everything
except the chopping board.

--
Skipweasel - never knowingly understood.

Gib Bogle

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Jan 23, 2011, 3:20:35 PM1/23/11
to
On 23/01/2011 11:51 p.m., john eastwood wrote:
> Complete novice (and simpleton) needs to drill into two kitchen wall tiles
> to put up a magnetic knife rack. The tiles are ancient, and if i crack them
> or drill out of level tiles could not be replaced with matching ones.
>
> It's also right near the sink where 'she who must be obeyed' will see it all
> day. If i mess up, i'm dead or worse.
>
> I've seen a workman drill into kitchen tiles and initially his drill goes
> 'all over the place' until it 'bites'. He's probably had a lot of
> experience at this, i'm guessing that for me it would bite in the wrong
> place.
>
> Grateful for any tips on the 'safest' way for me to drill the tiles.
> Thanks.
>
>

Use glue.

Dave

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Jan 23, 2011, 4:34:58 PM1/23/11
to
On 23/01/2011 17:30, Tim Watts wrote:
> Dave (dave...@btopenworld.com) wibbled on Sunday 23 January 2011 17:12:
>
>
>> The problem with sharp kitchen knives in a drawer, is that they blunt
>> each other.
>
> And chop your fingers off when you are rummaging around for other things.
>
>> Knife blocks made of wood are a hygiene problem.
>
> In theory you *should* be putting clean knives in!!!

That might be the case, but dross from the kitchen can drop down into
the slots and soil them. I haven't worked out a way to keep them clean
yet. It would be a good idea if they could split apart and be washed easily

>> I would
>> stick to the magnetic strip.
>
> But fair enough - I quite like the idea - out of reach of kids and easy to
> grab one with gungy hands without contaminating the rest.
>
>> The only time I get blunt kitchen knives is when my wife makes a
>> sandwich and cuts it in two on a plate. How can I teacher her?
>
> Make her sharpen the knives. With nothing more than a pebble and a bowl of
> water. She'll learn...

Even if I tried that, ten years on she would still be using very blunt
knives and you know how many injuries a blunt knife can make :-(

Dave

Dave

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Jan 23, 2011, 4:40:40 PM1/23/11
to

I find superglue a bit too brittle for this type of job. When I glued
mine to the wall, I used RTV 732. It is a silicone adhesive/filler but
sticks like the proverbial to a blanket.

Dave

ARWadsworth

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Jan 23, 2011, 5:02:04 PM1/23/11
to

I suppose after 10 years of marriage you stop sticking pointy objects into
your wife.

--
Adam


Skipweasel

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Jan 23, 2011, 5:04:53 PM1/23/11
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In article <ihi78n$jmv$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
dave...@btopenworld.com says...

> I find superglue a bit too brittle for this type of job. When I glued
> mine to the wall, I used RTV 732. It is a silicone adhesive/filler but
> sticks like the proverbial to a blanket.
>

I remember my mum deciding that mirror tiles on the wall above the bath
would be nice.
I also remember dozing in a nice hot bath when they all started to come
unstuck.

The Natural Philosopher

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Jan 23, 2011, 7:39:03 PM1/23/11
to
john eastwood wrote:
> Complete novice (and simpleton) needs to drill into two kitchen wall tiles
> to put up a magnetic knife rack. The tiles are ancient, and if i crack them
> or drill out of level tiles could not be replaced with matching ones.
>
> It's also right near the sink where 'she who must be obeyed' will see it all
> day. If i mess up, i'm dead or worse.
>
> I've seen a workman drill into kitchen tiles and initially his drill goes
> 'all over the place' until it 'bites'. He's probably had a lot of
> experience at this, i'm guessing that for me it would bite in the wrong
> place.
>
> Grateful for any tips on the 'safest' way for me to drill the tiles.
> Thanks.
>
score a tiddly cross with a diamond tipped tool, and use a diamond
tipped drill at low pressure and SLOW speed.


Or if you use one of the mini diamond *core* drills, put masking tape
over the tile, mark that, and then start very carefully lining up on
e.g. a biro drawn cross.

The Natural Philosopher

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Jan 23, 2011, 7:42:07 PM1/23/11
to
The Medway Handyman wrote:

> On 23/01/2011 10:51, john eastwood wrote:
>> Complete novice (and simpleton) needs to drill into two kitchen wall
>> tiles
>> to put up a magnetic knife rack. The tiles are ancient, and if i
>> crack them
>> or drill out of level tiles could not be replaced with matching ones.
>>
>> It's also right near the sink where 'she who must be obeyed' will see
>> it all
>> day. If i mess up, i'm dead or worse.
>>
>> I've seen a workman drill into kitchen tiles and initially his drill goes
>> 'all over the place' until it 'bites'. He's probably had a lot of
>> experience at this, i'm guessing that for me it would bite in the wrong
>> place.
>>
>> Grateful for any tips on the 'safest' way for me to drill the tiles.
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>
> Get a Bosch Multi Material drill bit kike this:-
>
> http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Power+Tool+Accessories/Masonry+Drill+Bits/Multi+Construction+TCT+Drill+Bit+60+x+100/d80/sd1350/p96753
>
>
>
> You also need a drill with good speed control.
>
> These multi material drills have a very sharp point, unlike a normal
> masonry bit. Position it, push hard & you will hear & feel the bit
> penetrate the glaze on the tile. Now it won't wander about.
>
> Now start the drill on low speed, no hammer, and slowly drill through
> the tile.
>
> Once through the tile speed up & use hammer action if required.
>
> Use wall plugs 'without' a lip like these:-
> http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Screws+Fixings/Wall+Plugs/Nylon+Plug+6+mm/d90/sd2060/p51158
>
>
> Make sure the plug goes behind the tile, the end can expand as the screw
> goes in & crack the tile.
>
>
I've drilled through *quartzite* without hammer.. hammer=total recipe
for tile crack. Sharp, hard and slow, as the actress said to the bishop.


And no overheating. Slop water on if using steel or tungsten. And maybe
when using diamond as well.

The Natural Philosopher

unread,
Jan 23, 2011, 7:43:41 PM1/23/11
to
Lobster wrote:
> On 23/01/2011 11:00, Gordon Henderson wrote:
>> In article<ihh199$nde$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,

>> john eastwood<bluest...@mail.invalid> wrote:
>>> Complete novice (and simpleton) needs to drill into two kitchen wall
>>> tiles
>>> to put up a magnetic knife rack. The tiles are ancient, and if i
>>> crack them
>>> or drill out of level tiles could not be replaced with matching ones.
>>>
>>> It's also right near the sink where 'she who must be obeyed' will see
>>> it all
>>> day. If i mess up, i'm dead or worse.
>>>
>>> I've seen a workman drill into kitchen tiles and initially his drill
>>> goes
>>> 'all over the place' until it 'bites'. He's probably had a lot of
>>> experience at this, i'm guessing that for me it would bite in the wrong
>>> place.
>
> Stick a piece of insulating or masking tape on the tile where you're
> drilling; that will stop it wandering. May need a couple of layers to
> make it thicker.

>
>>> Grateful for any tips on the 'safest' way for me to drill the tiles.
>>> Thanks.
>>
>> Get a proper tile drill. Parallel shank with a trangle shaped tip with a
>> sharp point. Go slow and use that to go through the glaze and most of
>> the tile, then see what lies beyond - you might then need a conventional
>> masonry drill.
>
> I used to use an expensive tile drill bit until someone (here I think?)
> years ago told me that standard masonry bits work fine.
>
> That's what I've used ever since - and have never broken a tile by
> drilling it.
>

I find the better custom bits wander less. Like my diamond core drill
best. Slow but excellent finish

> The only time I *did* once come to grief is by not drilling a hole large
> enough, so once the wall plug was inserted and the screw tightened...
> CRACK! Be warned ;)
>

BTDTGTTS
> David
>
>

The Natural Philosopher

unread,
Jan 23, 2011, 7:44:45 PM1/23/11
to
Ronald Raygun wrote:

> john eastwood wrote:
>
>> Complete novice (and simpleton) needs to drill into two kitchen wall tiles
>> to put up a magnetic knife rack. The tiles are ancient, and if i crack
>> them or drill out of level tiles could not be replaced with matching ones.
>>
>> It's also right near the sink where 'she who must be obeyed' will see it
>> all day. If i mess up, i'm dead or worse.
>>
>> I've seen a workman drill into kitchen tiles and initially his drill goes
>> 'all over the place' until it 'bites'. He's probably had a lot of
>> experience at this, i'm guessing that for me it would bite in the wrong
>> place.
>>
>> Grateful for any tips on the 'safest' way for me to drill the tiles.
>> Thanks.
>
> It would be a nightmare even for a professional to drill two holes in
> exactly the right relative positions.

Golly./ I must be a real pro then

Plastic plugs easily take up a mm or two. If you cant drill better than
that, get a man in.

The Natural Philosopher

unread,
Jan 23, 2011, 7:45:32 PM1/23/11
to
Tim Watts wrote:
> Gordon Henderson (gordon...@drogon.net) wibbled on Sunday 23 January
> 2011 11:00:
>
>> In article <ihh199$nde$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,

>> john eastwood <bluest...@mail.invalid> wrote:
>>> Complete novice (and simpleton) needs to drill into two kitchen wall tiles
>>> to put up a magnetic knife rack. The tiles are ancient, and if i crack
>>> them or drill out of level tiles could not be replaced with matching ones.
>>>
>>> It's also right near the sink where 'she who must be obeyed' will see it
>>> all day. If i mess up, i'm dead or worse.
>>>
>
> If she whines, tell her to do it herself!

>
>>> I've seen a workman drill into kitchen tiles and initially his drill goes
>>> 'all over the place' until it 'bites'. He's probably had a lot of
>>> experience at this, i'm guessing that for me it would bite in the wrong
>>> place.
>>>
>>> Grateful for any tips on the 'safest' way for me to drill the tiles.
>>> Thanks.
>> Get a proper tile drill. Parallel shank with a trangle shaped tip with a
>> sharp point. Go slow and use that to go through the glaze and most of
>> the tile, then see what lies beyond - you might then need a conventional
>> masonry drill.
>>
>> Gordon
>
> +1
>
> Yep - I have had quite a few "one chance" holes to do.
>
> Take the tile drill, press it gently into the glaze until you get the
> faintest of "crunchy" noises - that's the tip biting the glaze. Now it
> should not wander. Start the drill on slow with the lowest of pressures and
> allow the drill to grind its way in. Do not use hammer obviously. Go as far
> into the plaster as possible so the hole in the tile has parallel edges. Now
> you can go through with a masonry drill to deal with the brick if any. If
> it's just a plasterboard wall or celcon "cheeseblock" the tile drill will
> manage.
>
> Also, it is best IME to use a rawlplug that does not expand at the top - or
> one that can be pushed past the tile (ie a plug that does not have a top
> lip). You do not want the screw (more so with big screws) to expand and
> crack the tile. Probably won't be an issue for the little screws the knife
> rack needs, but worth remembering for bigger jobs.
>
> One further thing - if the screws can be put in a grout line, it reduces the
> risk to the tiles, but also if the rack is removed and the holes grouted
> over, the repair is nearly invisible.
>
> Cheers
>
> Tim
>
At last, someone else who has actually DONE it.

+1

The Natural Philosopher

unread,
Jan 23, 2011, 7:48:12 PM1/23/11
to
Skipweasel wrote:
> In article <04__o.3014$Os4....@newsfe24.ams2>,
> no....@localhost.localdomain says...
>> and frankly I reckon most people, professional cooks excepted,
>> would be better off with knives which are only sharpish.
>>
>
> Sod that. I like my favourite knife to slice freely through everything
> except the chopping board.
>
I now have rusty carbon steel knives and a diamond encrusted steel. She
can use the fancy blunt stainless all she likes.

John Miller

unread,
Jan 23, 2011, 8:45:23 PM1/23/11
to

"john eastwood" wrote in message
news:ihh199$nde$1...@news.eternal-september.org...

Complete novice (and simpleton) needs to drill into two kitchen wall tiles


to put up a magnetic knife rack. The tiles are ancient, and if i crack them
or drill out of level tiles could not be replaced with matching ones.

It's also right near the sink where 'she who must be obeyed' will see it all
day. If i mess up, i'm dead or worse.

I've seen a workman drill into kitchen tiles and initially his drill goes


'all over the place' until it 'bites'. He's probably had a lot of
experience at this, i'm guessing that for me it would bite in the wrong
place.

Grateful for any tips on the 'safest' way for me to drill the tiles.
Thanks.

--------
I've drilled through wall tiles a number of times to fix things and find the
easiest way is to use the pointed tip of a standard tile cutter (not the
wheeled type) and just work it into the tile to create a noticeable mark
using a screwing motion (twist to the right then back again!). Then I use a
standard masonry drill to drill the hole using the mark as the starting
point - never had a failure yet and is very accurate.

John M

chris French

unread,
Jan 23, 2011, 9:05:17 PM1/23/11
to
In message <04__o.3014$Os4....@newsfe24.ams2>, Ronald Raygun
<no....@localhost.localdomain> writes

>Dave wrote:
>
>> On 23/01/2011 11:36, Ronald Raygun wrote:
>>>
>>> Option three (I think this is by far the best): Throw away the magnetic
>>> rack and store the knives where they belong: in a drawer. To persuade
>>> her of the wisdom of this, you could point out that in the drawer the
>>> knives will stay clean, whereas if out in the open 24/7, they will catch
>>> all the damp and grease you expect to be flying about in a kitchen, and
>>> in turn dust will stick to them, etc.
>>
>> The problem with sharp kitchen knives in a drawer, is that they blunt
>> each other.
>
>Really? Not something I've ever found, so I presume this must be because
>your standards of sharpness far exceed mine.

IME, lots people seem to have standards of sharpness rather below mine

>I think I prefer my version
>of sharp, and frankly I reckon most people, professional cooks excepted,
>would be better off with knives which are only sharpish. The slight
>inconvenience of not being able to slice stuff effortlessly like the
>masterchefs on the telly is more than made up for by the accidental
>digital incisions being less often and less severe.
>

Most cuts I've received have been using not as sharp as they could be
knives, which IME experience are more likely to slip etc, rather than
cut cleanly. The only cut our kids have received from knives (both using
knives from about 3 to help prepare food) has been with someone elses
not very sharp knife

>> Knife blocks made of wood are a hygiene problem.
>
>You're not meant to stick them back in until after they've been cleaned!
>
>> I would stick to the magnetic strip.
>
>In that case let me suggest a compromise solution, and that is to
>screw the magnetic strip to the bottom of a drawer. Just need to make
>sure the drawers aren't tiled.
>

So waste a whole draw on a few knives.

I much prefer knives on the wall in magnetic rack, easy to identify the
knives and choose the right one, out of the way, but to hand, not
cluttering up the work top etc. They don't get dirty or greasy as most
gets used everyday
--
Chris French

Thomas Prufer

unread,
Jan 24, 2011, 1:50:23 AM1/24/11
to
On Sun, 23 Jan 2011 10:51:47 -0000, "john eastwood"
<bluest...@mail.invalid> wrote:

>Complete novice (and simpleton) needs to drill into two kitchen wall tiles
>to put up a magnetic knife rack. The tiles are ancient, and if i crack them
>or drill out of level tiles could not be replaced with matching ones.

Lot of good stuff about drilling...

Alternative: I'd use double-sided sticky tape, the thickish foam kind. Clean
tiles and rack spotless and grease-free using a solvent. Stick in place, wait a
few hours and done.

The thick foam tape will a) adapt to uneven tiles and b) give you a bit of
clearance to run a knife blade or thin wire between rack an tiles when it needs
to come off. This will cut the foam, and the adhesive bits left on the tiles
will come off with solvent, leaving no holes.


Thomas Prufer

Tim Watts

unread,
Jan 24, 2011, 1:54:04 AM1/24/11
to
john eastwood (bluest...@mail.invalid) wibbled on Sunday 23 January
2011 10:51:

> Complete novice (and simpleton) needs to drill into two kitchen wall tiles
> to put up a magnetic knife rack. The tiles are ancient, and if i crack
> them or drill out of level tiles could not be replaced with matching ones.
>

> It's also right near the sink where 'she who must be obeyed' will see it
> all day. If i mess up, i'm dead or worse.
>
> I've seen a workman drill into kitchen tiles and initially his drill goes
> 'all over the place' until it 'bites'. He's probably had a lot of
> experience at this, i'm guessing that for me it would bite in the wrong
> place.

No - he was being crap. There's no reason for this.

> Grateful for any tips on the 'safest' way for me to drill the tiles.
> Thanks.

--
Tim Watts

Chris Wilson

unread,
Jan 24, 2011, 5:51:45 AM1/24/11
to
The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote in news:ihihsv$kt$4
@news.albasani.net:

>
> And no overheating. Slop water on if using steel or tungsten. And maybe
> when using diamond as well.

The water also catches the dust and in my experience forms an abrasive
slurry that helps the drilling process. As others have said, drill slowly
applying little presure. Also I tend to use selotape rather than masking
tape.

--

All the best,

Chris

Message has been deleted

Steve Firth

unread,
Jan 23, 2011, 2:38:33 PM1/23/11
to
"Mr Pounder" <MrPo...@RationalThought.com> wrote:

> Just use a couple of tubes of Superglue - job done.

Good advice - I suggest you take it and start by chewing the tubes
thoroughly.

Steve Firth

unread,
Jan 23, 2011, 2:38:33 PM1/23/11
to
Ronald Raygun <no....@localhost.localdomain> wrote:

[snip]

> Really? Not something I've ever found, so I presume this must be because
> your standards of sharpness far exceed mine. I think I prefer my version
> of sharp, and frankly I reckon most people, professional cooks excepted,
> would be better off with knives which are only sharpish. The slight
> inconvenience of not being able to slice stuff effortlessly like the
> masterchefs on the telly is more than made up for by the accidental
> digital incisions being less often and less severe.

That's a myth. Sharp knives are safer than semi-sharp knives that need
greater pressure to cut. A sharp knife is controllable and cuts cleanly
without undue pressure. What you describe needs more pressure and of you
slip the extra force needed will ensure deep wounds.

I've never understood this fear of sharp knives.

Skipweasel

unread,
Jan 25, 2011, 5:40:32 PM1/25/11
to
In article <1187180559317502623.137402%steve%-
malloc...@news.malloc.co.uk>, %steve%@malloc.co.uk says...

> I've never understood this fear of sharp knives.
>

You've not met my wife.

Tim Watts

unread,
Jan 25, 2011, 6:56:53 PM1/25/11
to
Skipweasel (skipw...@googlemail.com) wibbled on Tuesday 25 January 2011
22:40:

> In article <1187180559317502623.137402%steve%-
> malloc...@news.malloc.co.uk>, %steve%@malloc.co.uk says...
>> I've never understood this fear of sharp knives.
>>
>
> You've not met my wife.
>

Your real name is John Wayne Bobbit and I claim my £5.

--
Tim Watts

Grimly Curmudgeon

unread,
Jan 27, 2011, 12:13:35 PM1/27/11
to
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "john eastwood"
<bluest...@mail.invalid> saying something like:

>I've seen a workman drill into kitchen tiles and initially his drill goes
>'all over the place' until it 'bites'. He's probably had a lot of
>experience at this, i'm guessing that for me it would bite in the wrong
>place.
>

>Grateful for any tips on the 'safest' way for me to drill the tiles.
>Thanks.

I've drilled literally hundreds of holes in tiles like this...
Take a 3" masonary nail and lightly tap it until it breaks the glaze,
then set your ordinary masonary bit into the break and drill (non-hammer
action).
Works every time and no fecking about.

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