Plasterboard & Plastering
Thomarse
main bedroom into 2 smaller bedrooms.. by building a partition wall..
I was planning on getting it built myself and then getting the
professionals in to plaster it for me... however, at the weekend,
whilst working in the room I noticed that the previous owners had
plasterboarded the ceiling (due to the crap ceing above it. The
plasterboard they had put on the ceiling hadnt been platered over,
just jointed? and painted, the finish is flawless and the only reason
I noticed this had been done was because thyy hadint done it inside a
built in wardrobe which I ripped out.
So my question is now this... When I have done my partition wall,
should I get it plastered or could I get away with doing some jointing/
filling and just painting the plasterboard. Obviously this would save
me alot of time and money, but I wouldnt want to do it if the finish
would be fragile and prone to easy wear and tear etc..
Has anyone got any advice on this?
Tom
mark....@totalise.co.uk
Dry-lining seems to be the most popular method these days - and
providing it's done correctly gives a flawless finish (I'd say better
than a skimmed finish since you won't end up with any trowel marks
etc.) and isn't any more fragile than having a skim coat added.
And these days a lot of painter/decorators can do the taping - so you
can fit the boards yourself and have a decorator do the taping -
probably cheaper than having a plasterer do it.
Mark.
Thomarse
>
> - Show quoted text -
Ok, I thought that might be teh case, but wasnt sure if it was anymore
fragile, but it seems it isnt which is good...
So when putting up the plasterboard chould I leave a slight gap
between each to allow for the taping or does the tapered edge account
for this
Tom
Andy Hall
I've used the taping and jointing technique for my cloakroom project
and have been able to achieve an excellent finish. I should add
that I have occasionally attempted pieces of plastering and skimming
and did not achieve acceptable results. I am sure that given
training and practice, I could probably do the plastering and skimming,
but I don't foresee having enough to do to invest the time and effort
in learning, so that would be a job to outsource.
However, with the cloakroom, I bought a book on drywalling and thought
I'd give it a go. The plasterboard would need to be joint taped and
filled anyway, so in the worst case I would have to have had it skimmed.
There were several things that I found useful while doing the project:
- Plasterboard with tapered edges.
- Framing sturdy and accurate.
- I used drywall screws and not nails, driving them until the heads
just go below the surface.
- I used fibreglass mesh tape with adhesive on it. There is paper
stuff which I tried but I found the fibreglass easier to use with
filler.
- I bought several taping knives - a 100mm joint knife and then 150 and
250 mm taping knives.
- I also bought a rectangular "mud pan". This is much easier to use
than a hawk etc. because you can more easily get a small amount of the
filler along the whole length of the knife.
- I used a mixing paddle in a drill to mix the filler. Not a great
deal is needed but it is important to get it really smooth.
- I bought a hand sander and a roll of 120 grit paper for it.
Normally I would tend to use power tools, but the filler sands very
easily and it's important to be able to look closely at where one is
sanding and to go quite carefully.
Take a look at the Axminster tools web site and use Marshalltown as a
search keyword - you will find all these items there.
The technique is to apply the tape to the joints, pushing it into the
corners with a taping knife. Do this on the same day or no more than
a couple of days before applying filler - the adhesive is deliberately
quite weak.
Use the 100mm knife first to apply the first layer to the tape. Note
that the edges deliberately slope away so that you can tackle inside
corners (which is probably the hardest part). Feather the edges to not
much wider than the knife. Don't worry if the mesh of the tape is
still exposed. Fill screw holes and any plasterboard dings at this
stage. This will be the first of two or more fillings of those so no
need to make that perfect first time.
Wait for the filler to thoroughly dry or set depending on type. I
prefer to wait for the next day. You can buy jointing filler in DIY
stores that will remain workable for over an hour depending on the
weather. There is faster stuff which I might use another time but I
wasn't going to rush the job.
Sand the first filling, going out to the edges and sand off any obvious
bumps. A light arranged along the wall that will throw shadows is
helpful here.
Repeat the jointing using the 150mm knife with the centre line of the
knife running along the centre line of the tape to begin with
(obviously it's the edge in corners). Again feather the edges. At
this stage, the tape will probably have disappeared into the plaster.
Sand again.
Repeat using the 250mm knife and sand. At this stage I had a few tiny
marks left here and there. I filled these using the 100mm knife just
locally. Sand off again and good result.
There is a 300mm knife which I believe is the largest. I didn't need
to use it as the result was perfectly fine after the 250mm knife.
I found the whole thing pretty easy. Also, if mistakes are made, they
can be sanded away and redone. The filler sands easily. Each run of
doing the filling doesn't take long - even in a large room it doesn't
take very long. Therefore, I would suggest having some other jobs to
do and come back on successive days rather than trying to do everything
in one hit.
mark....@totalise.co.uk
>
> - Show quoted text -
No, don't leave a gap - butt the tapered edges hard together.
The taper is about 1.5" at the edge of the board, so this leaves a 3"
valley to be filled at each joint.
Mark.
Andy Hall
>>
>
> Ok, I thought that might be teh case, but wasnt sure if it was anymore
> fragile, but it seems it isnt which is good...
Not really. Also, you can paint pretty much immediately after the
last sanding if you want to do so.
If you are going to paper, then some plasterboard primer is a good
idea. It will reduce the possibility of the surface paper being ripped
off later.
>
> So when putting up the plasterboard chould I leave a slight gap
> between each to allow for the taping or does the tapered edge account
> for this
No. You can butt the edges together. Note that the taper is only on
the long edges. When cutting, it's better to arrange things so that
non tapered edges go into inside corners so that you have the most
tapered edges in the middle of the wall. You can tape and feather non
tapered joins but that is a bit more fiddly than where there are
tapers. It's less noticable to have these in the corners.
Cutting is easy. You need a large flat and firm surface, a long steel
or aluminium rule (a metre one really) and a utility knife. Mark out
and then score firmly through the paper into the plaster on one side.
Then with steady firm pressure pull the sheet down so that the score
tends to open. The board will crack. Fold the sheet to mark the paper
on the other side. Turn the board over and run the knife along the
fold. The paper does not have to be perfect.
If you want to get a book on all the techniques, including framing
correctly for plasterboard, fitting and all the little tips and
tricks, I can recommend Complete Drywall published by Stanley. Amazon
carries it.
Andy Hall
>
> No, don't leave a gap - butt the tapered edges hard together.
> The taper is about 1.5" at the edge of the board, so this leaves a 3"
> valley to be filled at each joint.
>
> Mark.
True about the taper. However, that's there to accomodate the tape
and the first 1-2 layers of filler. It should not be regarded as the
only space to fill - it's very important to feather the filler out each
side quite some way or the tapered region will be very obvious.
mark....@totalise.co.uk
So when you feather out the filler - are you actually leaving lumps on
the surface?
Allbeit feathered out lumps so that they are not obvious?
Mark.
Cicero
==================================
Plasterboard usually has a grey side and a white side. The grey side is
for skimming, the white side is for the tape and joint finish you
describe. There may be some indication of this printed on the board.
Cic.
--
===================================
Using Ubuntu Linux
Windows shown the door
===================================
FKruger
wrote:
I disagree, I think the taper should be made flush with the rest of
the board so that the wall looks completely flat rather than having a
slight hump at every join.
Andy Hall
No, that's the whole point. You feather out wider and wider at each
application using a wider knife each time.
I found that 250mm was enough, although there are 300mm knives as well.
Together with sanding, the effect at the very edges is that there isn't
a ridge that one can see.
With a joint that is between two untapered edges, the tape will
normally be proud of the surface. There is a way around that
involving using packers with the framing to effectively create a slight
hollow, but I didn't find it necessary. I suppose it might be if one
has to do non tapered joints in the middle of the wall - e.g. if the
ceiling is high and therefore the board is not long enough.
On this subject, there is nothing that says that the boards have to go
vertically. There are cases where it's better and easier to run them
horizontally. For example, in my cloakroom project, I have done this
and ended up needing to accurately joint and feather fewer joints
because some will be under the tiles.
On flat joints, one has to feather out further to make the high point
less obvious.
Andy Hall
If you do it properly by feathering the edges, you won't have a slight
hump at every join on tapered boards. If you attempt to fill only the
tapered area, you will be able to see the lines of the taper much more
easily. Of course the tapered area should be filled to level with
the board, but not ended precisely at the edges of the taper.
Thomarse
> On 2007-06-18 13:09:03 +0100, FKruger <FKru...@elmstreet.co.uk> said:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 12:01:54 +0100, Andy Hall <a...@hall.nospam>
> > wrote:
>
> >> On 2007-06-18 11:49:14 +0100, mark.han...@totalise.co.uk said:
>
> >>> No, don't leave a gap - butt the tapered edges hard together.
> >>> The taper is about 1.5" at the edge of the board, so this leaves a 3"
> >>> valley to be filled at each joint.
>
> >>> Mark.
>
> >> True about the taper. However, that's there to accomodate the tape
> >> and the first 1-2 layers of filler. It should not be regarded as the
> >> only space to fill - it's very important to feather the filler out each
> >> side quite some way or the tapered region will be very obvious.
>
> > I disagree, I think the taper should be made flush with the rest of
> > the board so that the wall looks completely flat rather than having a
> > slight hump at every join.
>
> If you do it properly by feathering the edges, you won't have a slight
> hump at every join on tapered boards. If you attempt to fill only the
> tapered area, you will be able to see the lines of the taper much more
> easily. Of course the tapered area should be filled to level with
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thanks for all the advice..
on the feathering issue... is it not possible to fill to just above
borad level and then crefullt sand the fill back down to board level
so not to egt any humps, no matter how slight.. The ceiling that has
been done in my house appears to have no slight hump at all, but a
perfectly flat finish?
Thanks again
Tom
John Rumm
Once it is sanded there will be no hump, however it helps if there is a
very fine layer of filler over the transition from taper to flat. That
way when you sand, you remove most of this, but it aids making an
invisible transition.
--
Cheers,
John.
/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/
John Rumm
> Plasterboard usually has a grey side and a white side. The grey side is
> for skimming, the white side is for the tape and joint finish you
> describe. There may be some indication of this printed on the board.
That certainly used to be the case, but is no always true any longer
(depending on make of plasterboard). Many are intended to be finished on
the light side only. Instructions are normally printed on each board.
Cicero
> Cicero wrote:
>
>> Plasterboard usually has a grey side and a white side. The grey side is
>> for skimming, the white side is for the tape and joint finish you
>> describe. There may be some indication of this printed on the board.
--------------------------------->
> That certainly used to be the case, but is no always true any longer
> (depending on make of plasterboard). Many are intended to be finished on
> the light side only. Instructions are normally printed on each board.
==================================
Thanks for that follow-up, although I'm not myself planning on using any
in the near future. The information should be useful to the OP when he's
finalised the question of bumps or no bumps on the joints.
EricP
<see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
>> Thanks for all the advice..
>>
>> on the feathering issue... is it not possible to fill to just above
>> borad level and then crefullt sand the fill back down to board level
>> so not to egt any humps, no matter how slight.. The ceiling that has
>> been done in my house appears to have no slight hump at all, but a
>> perfectly flat finish?
>
>Once it is sanded there will be no hump, however it helps if there is a
>very fine layer of filler over the transition from taper to flat. That
>way when you sand, you remove most of this, but it aids making an
>invisible transition.
Is there any way to avoid tape entirely, say filling the gap with
bonding plaster or some other flexible plaster?
John Rumm
If you do then you risk it cracking later (having said that it is still
possible to get cracks with then tape!).
The self adhesive fibreglass tape is very quick and easy to use.
Thomarse
>
> - Show quoted text -
So the purpose of the tape is really just to help the filler adhere to
the pasterboard?
Andy Hall
Hello Tom
yes the point is not to try to stop the filler precisely along the
edges of the taper. These are slightly curved anyway.
You won't get a slight hump at all if you feather the edges out. It
will be flat. The key is to use very little filling material - most
is taken off with the knife. Anything more is sanded anyway.
It is much better to have multiple really thin coats, mainly taken away
with the knife than to slap the filler on and try and sand back. That
would be making unnecessary work and dust. That's why a number of
coats (typically 3) with ever wider knives are used.
the only case where you would get a slight hump is if you joint flat
edged boards together. Then you need t feather wider so that it's a
very gentle change that is imperceptible from flat.
Andy Hall
Unwise.
If you use bonding plaster, it's highly likely to crack. Flexible
filler doesn't sand.
I found the glass fibre tape much easier to use than the paper stuff.
Thomarse
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thanks Andy, I will let you know how i get on when I have a crack at
it.
Tom
John Rumm
> So the purpose of the tape is really just to help the filler adhere to
> the pasterboard?
It is mainly intended to reinforce the joint. Without it you would soon
get fine cracks along the board joints, just from vibration or thermal
movement.
Andy Hall
One other thing is to try to make sure that the framing is straight and
square in itself. That way, the plasterboard sits flat when fitted.
You could even take a couple of pieces, fit them up and practice.
Plasterboard is very inexpensive.
I actually found it wasn't necessary and just jumped straight in.
It wasn't a problem. As I said, I'm useless at plastering, but
managed the drywalling exercise with no trouble at all
EricP
wrote:
>> Is there any way to avoid tape entirely, say filling the gap with
>> bonding plaster or some other flexible plaster?
>
>Unwise.
>
>If you use bonding plaster, it's highly likely to crack. Flexible
>filler doesn't sand.
>
>I found the glass fibre tape much easier to use than the paper stuff.
>
Thanks to John and yourself for this.
I must buckle down and get on with it then.
Cicero
==================================
The fibre glass tape is easier to apply (usually self-adhesive) but it's
thicker than scrim so it can be more difficult to get a flat finish.
Maris
wrote:
>==================================
>Plasterboard usually has a grey side and a white side. The grey side is
>for skimming, the white side is for the tape and joint finish you
>describe. There may be some indication of this printed on the board.
>
>Cic.
9.5 mm plasterboard is not available with a tapered edge (only 12.5mm
is) so a taped finish is not possible.
Maris
John Rumm
> 9.5 mm plasterboard is not available with a tapered edge (only 12.5mm
> is) so a taped finish is not possible.
Yeah but, only cheapskates use 9.5mm PB ;-)
PeterK
"Maris" <lat...@london.com> wrote in message
news:5dgd73hogtiv87fka...@4ax.com...
Knauf Wallboard in 9.5mm taper edge looks to be available in the UK .
(Follow the wallboard link on
http://manual.knaufdrywall.co.uk/themanual/home.html)
I was looking for the DIY pages of Kauf - see http://www.knaufdiy.co.uk/ and
their Flash presentations on topics such as plastering, dry lining (taping
and sanding back clearly addressed), aquapanel.
Peter K
Andy Hall
So buy 12.5mm...
The stuff costs next to nothing anyway
Frank Erskine
>On 18 Jun,
> Maris <lat...@london.com> wrote:
>
>> 9.5 mm plasterboard is not available with a tapered edge (only 12.5mm
>> is) so a taped finish is not possible.
>>
>I've used lots ot TE 9.5mm. How long has it not been available?
What the Hell's 9·5mm? Is it 3/8" in real size?
It seems so unusual having these wierd 'metric' sizes for real things.
I mean, why have '9.5mm' rather than '10mm'?
Let's be honest - we all really use/think in real dimensions...
--
Frank Erskine
"Automatic door - push button to operate"
Andy Hall
<frank....@btinternet.com> said:
> On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 00:44:02 +0100, <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>> On 18 Jun,
>> Maris <lat...@london.com> wrote:
>>
>>> 9.5 mm plasterboard is not available with a tapered edge (only 12.5mm
>>> is) so a taped finish is not possible.
>>>
>> I've used lots ot TE 9.5mm. How long has it not been available?
>
> What the Hell's 9·5mm? Is it 3/8" in real size?
No it's 9.5mm
>
> It seems so unusual having these wierd 'metric' sizes for real things.
> I mean, why have '9.5mm' rather than '10mm'?
Because it's 9.5mm and has to remain compatible.
18mm ply moved from being sold in deprecated units some years ago, much
to the chagrin of the U.S. who have still not caught up with the rest
of the world. They still sell special construction calculators to add
up the bizarre fractions.
>
> Let's be honest - we all really use/think in real dimensions...
>
Which are mm. I haven't used the old stuff since primary school,
over 40 years ago.
All we need to do is to get rid of the inconsistencies like miles and
then life will be even simpler.
Mind you... I do enjoy the John Cleese voice on my navigator. 800m
before motorway and other similar exits he says:
"In 800 metres..... well I'd call it half a mile, but we have to say
800 metres these days because of that little bastard, Napoleon... "
I frequently use the navigator in the back of taxis - keeps the driver
honest. I try to remember not to use Cleese when making a taxi trip
around the Boulevard Peripherique, though ;-)
chris French
Thomarse <thomas...@tiscali.co.uk> writes
>On Jun 18, 3:25 pm, John Rumm <see.my.signat...@nowhere.null> wrote:
>> EricP wrote:
>> > On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 14:26:56 +0100, John Rumm
>> > <see.my.signat...@nowhere.null> wrote:
>>
>> >>> Thanks for all the advice..
>>
>> >>> on the feathering issue... is it not possible to fill to just above
>> >>> borad level and then crefullt sand the fill back down to board level
>> >>> so not to egt any humps, no matter how slight.. The ceiling that has
>> >>> been done in my house appears to have no slight hump at all, but a
>> >>> perfectly flat finish?
>> >> Once it is sanded there will be no hump, however it helps if there is a
>> >> very fine layer of filler over the transition from taper to flat. That
>> >> way when you sand, you remove most of this, but it aids making an
>> >> invisible transition.
>>
>> > Is there any way to avoid tape entirely, say filling the gap with
>> > bonding plaster or some other flexible plaster?
>>
>> If you do then you risk it cracking later (having said that it is still
>> possible to get cracks with then tape!).
>>
>> The self adhesive fibreglass tape is very quick and easy to use.
>>
>
>the pasterboard?
>
joint line which is more likely with an untaped joint.
--
Chris French