UPVC Doors Won't Lock In Sunshine

[Tinkerer]

We have a pair of UPVC doors on our porch. One is only opened when
required for large items to be taken into the house and it carries the
frame into which the "everyday" door locks.

We have found that the locking mechanism for the "everyday" door works
fine until the sunshine arrives. In the afternoon sun it presumably
gets very hot and the handle will only lift just over half the normal
distance which is not sufficient to allow the key to be turned although
I do not think the problem is the handle as it operates fine when the
door is open. Once the sun is off it the locks work fine again but
that is no use if you need to lock up during the afternoon.

I can't imagine that we are the only people to have experienced this
problem. I assume that the door is expanding/bending in the heat and
some adjustment is required. Problem is that I cannot identify which
part of the umpteen part locking system is jamming. I was wondering
if anyone else had experienced the same problem, or is familiar with
this type of door, and could suggest how to find where it lies.

--
Tinkerer

[Brian Gaff]

Well in my case its the little bolt that slides up into a metal bit on the
frame. What seems to happen is that the door twists slightly making it catch
the edge. I filed it a bit and it seemed ok for a while but is binding again
I notice.
I bet quite a few people find this problem in one form or another as there
are now so many sliding and pushing bits to keep the door shut, it seems to
not need much for one or more to start binding up.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Tinkerer" <invalid...@invalid.inv> wrote in message
news:xn0ihlhu...@news.albasani.net...

[Andrew Gabriel]

In article <xn0ihlhu...@news.albasani.net>,

Well, it could be loads of things.
First, can you lift the handle and lock it with it open, i.e. is
it the locking mechamism which is faulty, or does this only happen
when you close it first and try locking it?

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

[Mrs Bonk]

I have French doors and get the same. I work afternoons and dare not
open the doors in the morning as the sun hits them then I can't lock the
door to go to work.
On mine it is the bolt on the one door hitting the lock hole in the
central bit. I removed the offending brass section housing the "hole"
I still have two working bolts ( this probably voids my insurance)
I have the same on the back door this time I had to remove two brass
housing strips ( dunno the correct name) I fitted two other security
bolts instead. I did intend to replace everything but moving it about
eighth of an inch however, did one which worked, then when the door
cools- it doesn't bolt lol. I did file one down and that worked but
couldn't file enough of the other one.

[Andrew Gabriel]

In article <augadm...@mid.individual.net>,

Mrs Bonk <ar...@spamfreecutey.com> writes:
> I have French doors and get the same. I work afternoons and dare not
> open the doors in the morning as the sun hits them then I can't lock the
> door to go to work.
> On mine it is the bolt on the one door hitting the lock hole in the
> central bit. I removed the offending brass section housing the "hole"
> I still have two working bolts ( this probably voids my insurance)
> I have the same on the back door this time I had to remove two brass
> housing strips ( dunno the correct name) I fitted two other security
> bolts instead. I did intend to replace everything but moving it about
> eighth of an inch however, did one which worked, then when the door
> cools- it doesn't bolt lol. I did file one down and that worked but
> couldn't file enough of the other one.

Check to see if the door has dropped by measuring the two diagonals
top to bottom corners. They should measure the same, and if they
don't, the door has dropped due to incorrectly fitting the glass
and/or panels in it, without healing/toeing them. Very common,
because the fitters often don't understand the process, and it takes
a while to fail after they've gone.
(Can also do the same check on the frame opening to make sure it's
square too.)

[Tinkerer]

Thanks Andrew. I will carry out those checks. In answer to your
earlier question the locking mechanism works fine when the door is open
so I take it that it is either fouling at one of the points where it
latches into the "fixed" door or where it bolts into the top or bottom
of the frame. It sounds as if I am not the only one to experience
this problem. Fortunately it is only the porch, there is still a
sturdy old fashioned wooden front door behind it.

--
Tinkerer

[The Medway Handyman]

You can adjust the hinges on most uPVC doors (assuming they are). Look
for a 'prize off' blanking cap & you should find a hex socket screw.

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

[Tinkerer]

Thanks, I didn't know that and they are indeed a pair of UPVC doors.
Now I am waiting for sunshine again so I can start checking things out.

--
Tinkerer

[DerbyBorn]

I had a similar issue which I sorted by adjusting the hinges. One of the
rollers that engages in a slotted casting was hitting the bottom of the
slot and preventing the full travel of the mechanism.

[Rob]

I've had this problem for several years. My doors are finshed black on
the outside and
white on the inside. Immediately I became aware of an expansion problem
and realised
I should have gone for aluminium frames. I'm stuck with sticky doors

[Gary]

When I worked for Everest we were asked not to sell UPVC doors on the
south facing houses .Aluminium was to be encouraged. ( Only because of
the sticky door problem)

[Mrs Bonk]

Thank you dear. my door is out of line. I came home one day to find
three small hardly noticeable indentations on the UPVC frame exactly
level with each bolt. Although my uninvited guests never managed to get
in the door has never been the same. Perhaps I should have claimed on
the insurance.
I did have a window and door man at the house once to try to level it
with the hinges and it was ok for a while, come winter I realised there
was a gap down the central part that let in a draught. I stuffed rags in
and tried myself to adjust things but it seems when one thing is level
another isn't. I cant be bothered with the fine tuning every few days
depending on weather. I did think to replace with wood but my new shed
door is wood and that sticks too.
Maybe patio doors would be better.

[SteveW]

On 03/05/2013 10:38, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

In our case, sunshine bows the door. When the door gets hot on the
outside, the outside expands while the inside doesn't and it bananas.
The (inward opening) door closes in the middle, but the top and bottom
are still just too far open to lock. From the inside it can be locked by
pushing the top and bottom closed while locking, but from the outside
it's a right pain!

SteveW

[Andrew Gabriel]

In article <IlUgt.157196$z82....@fx07.fr7>,

I would suggest trying to square up the door first, but it's more
involved, particularly if glazing security tape has been used to
fit the panels.

You have to take out the panels.
Then try to square up the door by using something to jack up the
bottom corner (opposite to hinge side). If you can do this with
it shut, that may make it easier. You are unlikely to be able to
get it back square again and may break it if you try, but at least
take up any easily recovered slack to make it nearer to square.
Now with it held in this position, refit the panals using a
selection of packers. (You will need to clean off and replace any
glazing tape used.) Each panel needs tight packers either side
of the lower corner on the hinge side, and the upper corner on the
opposite side. This makes the panel form a diagnoal bracing piece
in compression. Then pack the other two corners of each panel, but
it doesn't need to be as tight.
Refit beading now if there's no glazing security tape holding the
panels in.
You can remove the door jack now and test the fit.
Refit beading if you didn't do it above.

[harry]

On May 9, 10:07 pm, and...@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel)
wrote:
> In article <IlUgt.157196$z82.21...@fx07.fr7>,

Above is all true.
Depending on your situation, remove the beads and then jack the door
up (while closed) by driving a wedge under it and put in silicon
between glass and frame all the way round& replace the beads .
You have to leave the door closed and jacked up for a couple of weeks
to let the silicon go off. Best done in warm weather.

This is a last resort if all else fails. The deformation may be
permanent.

[Ilene D'over]

Mrs Bonk <ar...@spamfreecutey.com> wrote...

Reading this thread with some interest. The hinges should NEVER be used
for adjustment unless they have been "fiddled" with by an ignorant
fitter or worse still, DIYer. Sorry to be so blunt!

In the factory, the hinges are adjusted to centre the door in the frame
and the eccentric hinge pin is adjusted to give the correct pressure on
the door seal at the hinge side. The lock keeps are adjusted to the cams
on the lock mechanism.

If correctly fitted, there should be no problem. As has been stated
already, if the door is not "toed and healed" properly it will drop when
the plastic gets warm and cause binding on the lower end. If the keeps
and cams are not set correctly, cold and hot weather will cause binding.
The hinges are not the cause and should not be touched.

Frames can move and if they are not secured to the cavity properly they
will start to lean towards the lock side of the door, again causing
binding so, make sure the door frame is absolutely square and then check
the door against the frame. The overlap of the door on the frame must be
equal at all points and is usually 8-10mm. Once this is achieved, the
keeps and/or cams can be set. This should be done on a mild day and not
in full sun.

Thermal stability of modern PVCu is surprisingly good.
--
Ilene

[jennyha...@gmail.com]

Try a watering can of cold water, works for us.Good luck.
>

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

my plastic door at the static van rubs off the threshold in summer and
is OK in winter......

[The Other John]

On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 03:06:23 -0700, jennyharris444 wrote:

> Try a watering can of cold water, works for us.Good luck.

I expect after 7 years he'll be glad of that advice! :)

--
TOJ

[John]

>>
>

The rollers are probably hitting the bottom of the slots. Adjust the door
hinges.

[Cynic]

Get some engineers blue and coat the possible sliding/contact parts. Then as you operate the mechanism over a range of temperature it should be rubbed off where contact occurs. That should identify the possible areas of the problem.

[Brian Gaff (Sofa 2)]

2013 eh, I'd imagine they got so pissed off they got a new door by now.
Its a problem though as I had to take my bottom lock off to make the door
handle go up enough, but still cannot see where its binding.
Brian

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[Cynic]

Fair point about the op date Brian but isn't it nice to discuss a physical problem instead of the torrent of political bullshit?