Kettle risk

[larkim]

I've an elderly relative who has been seen to be filling her cordless kettle whilst dipping the base of it in an already full kitchen sink and then plugging it back onto its stand, dripping wet.

a) What's the risk
b) Are there "safety kettles" which might reduce any risk

Cheers!

Matt

[Andrew Gabriel]

In article <ec348017-53ae-4a78...@googlegroups.com>,

larkim <matthew...@gmail.com> writes:
> I've an elderly relative who has been seen to be filling her cordless kettle whilst dipping the base of it in an already full kitchen sink and then plugging it back onto its stand, dripping wet.
>
> a) What's the risk

Make sure it's on an RCD circuit, or failing that, fit an RCD
socket for it. (A plug-in RCD will get removed first time it
trips.)

> b) Are there "safety kettles" which might reduce any risk

We had problems with a couple of elderly relatives and kettles.
Although both had used electric kettles for years, both reverted
to putting the electric kettle on the gas hob, which wasn't so
bad with the classic old Russell Hobs metal electric kettle
as it was with the plastic kettle which replaced it.
In the end, had to get a gas hob kettle for one, and the other
ended up heating water in a saucepan IIRC.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

[Martin Brown]

On 24/04/2014 15:39, larkim wrote:
> I've an elderly relative who has been seen to be filling her cordless kettle whilst dipping the base of it in an already full kitchen sink and then plugging it back onto its stand, dripping wet.
>
> a) What's the risk

Water in the works and potentially a live leakage current. Most are
cunningly designed so that water can only get on one side wet unless you
are very creative but it could go with a good pop and blow the fuse.

Look carefully to see where the water can get to. It might not be as
disastrous as you think although electrolytic action will corrode the
contacts and lead to premature failure...

> b) Are there "safety kettles" which might reduce any risk

Better to make sure the kitchen ring main is on a RCB so that if the
worst happens it will trip and need to be reset manually.

A physically smaller kettle might help - you can get 1.2L ones.

That is what I got my parents because they always filled their big
kettle and with a weakening grip it looked seriously dangerous to me.
They really only need to boil enough water for two cups of tea/coffee.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[Brian Gaff]

I've never had a problem with this at all, being blind I probably do this at
least once a week.
The connection system is pretty well designed.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"larkim" <matthew...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ec348017-53ae-4a78...@googlegroups.com...

[Brian Gaff]

One of the issues i have with modern kettles is the design of the spout. I
ended up filing a notch into mine so I could locate it onto whatever I want
to pour the contents into, instead of it slipping and dousing everything in
boiling water.
Also the filters in them get blocked maga fast and I now wash them in the
washing machine with some older clothes!

Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active

"Martin Brown" <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Gqa6v.56997$Xl1....@fx09.am4...

[Michael Chare]

On 24/04/2014 15:39, larkim wrote:

Presumably she has got away with doing this. Normal (slightly impure)
water and electricity don't mix. The water just ensures that you get a
more severe shock, which is why people get killed when their electric
fire falls in the bath.

If you can't persuade your relative not to do this perhaps you should
get her a kettle that works on a hob. Or maybe fit a mixer tape where
the spout is high enough to fill the kettle when its bottom is above the
level of the draining board.


--
Michael Chare

[polygonum]

On 24/04/2014 15:39, larkim wrote:

If possible, how about filling it using a jug? I know that the need for
persuasion and requiring them to remember to do so makes this highly
dependant upon the person's acceptance.

--
Rod

[Gazz]

"polygonum" <rmoud...@vrod.co.uk> wrote in message
news:brtdhm...@mid.individual.net...

most likely be impossible to change the filling habits, short of either
using a gas hob kettle, or fitting one of those boiling water taps (with the
risks involved) or a wall mounted boiling water dispenser thingy.... that
needs filling from a jug i presume,

The breville hot cup type things sit on the side, and you take the unit off
the dock to re-fill it, so will have the same problem as a kettle.

i guess it depends on the design of the cordless kettle to how much of a
danger there is,
my kettle has a circular contact in the middle of the base for power (as
it's a round kettle designed so you can twist it about on the base with the
power lead going the direction you want i guess)
it has some sort of spring loaded shroud that covers the live contacts in
the base when the kettle is off the base, and i imagine they would shed the
last few drips of water from the kettle's connection being dunked in water,

And as you put it on the base holding the plastic (and presumably dry)
handle, the worst that could happen is a flash over and trip the rcd,

But maybe the square type jug kettles that fit onto the base with 3 pins
sticking out of the kettle stand more chance of being a problem,
but then again, as long as the kettle is just placed onto the base with one
hand, the operator is unlikely to get a shock.

Now the type of kettle where you hold it with one hand and plug the lead
into it with the other.... i wouldn't be that happy doing so after the
socket had been dunked in water,

[Martin Brown]

On 24/04/2014 18:47, Brian Gaff wrote:
> I've never had a problem with this at all, being blind I probably do this at
> least once a week.
> The connection system is pretty well designed.
> Brian
>

I think that it probably true, but I would still fit an RCD so that if
the worst happens and someone ends up touching water in contact with
live that they do not get a lethal shock.

I suspect most today are configured as kettle live on a central rod,
neutral on a concentric cylinder and then a plastic guard around both.

The base has a small hole in the middle for live that only opens after
the neutral cylinder mates with the base and plenty of plastic inbetween
to keep prying fingers away from the hot bits.

I suspect you could get water in by spilling it directly on the base but
mostly it would result in current flowing from live to neutral.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[tony sayer]

In article <guq6v.147845$yN1....@fx29.am4>, Martin Brown <|||newspam||
|@nezumi.demon.co.uk> scribeth thus

Poor old soul!, if you do fit a RCD do remember to tell her how to close
it;!...
--
Tony Sayer

[newshound]

On 24/04/2014 15:39, larkim wrote:

No-one has mentioned wall-mounted "kettles" yet. They pose a (different)
scalding risk, and are "unfamiliar". I'd be inclined to stick with a
cordless kettle, as long as the circuit is on an RCD of course.

[Martin Brown]

On 25/04/2014 12:24, tony sayer wrote:
> In article <guq6v.147845$yN1....@fx29.am4>, Martin Brown <|||newspam||
> |@nezumi.demon.co.uk> scribeth thus
>> On 24/04/2014 18:47, Brian Gaff wrote:
>>> I've never had a problem with this at all, being blind I probably do this at
>>> least once a week.
>>> The connection system is pretty well designed.
>>> Brian
>>>
>>
>> I think that it probably true, but I would still fit an RCD so that if
>> the worst happens and someone ends up touching water in contact with
>> live that they do not get a lethal shock.
>>
>>
>

> Poor old soul!, if you do fit a RCD do remember to tell her how to close
> it;!...

A fair point - the reset needs to be either on the plug for the base or
somewhere else that an elderly person can easily reach it. My parents
mains fuse box is uncomfortably hidden in a small cupboard under the
stairs and requires a supple contortionist to work on it. The access
aperture is roughly no wider than 16" wide and 20" high.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[larkim]

You're right, and that's something I want to steer away from.

RCD protection, checking that it is a round based connector and the reassurance from here that there isn't really a sizeable risk seems to be a good place to leave this.

Thanks!

[Johny B Good]

Which, in the case of a few stray drips, will probably flash to
steam.

The typical plastic jug kettle tends to drip a few drops when
replaced on its dock after filling it through its spout. Most of the
time, ime, these land well clear of the central connector socket and
I've yet to see a kettle drip score a direct hit.

The bases seem to well designed in that the socket allows rapid
drainage for any such stray water ingress. I guess the only way you're
likely to see water being flashed into steam from the socket is by
deliberately pouring water into it.

However, just a month or two before Comet unsurprisingly went bust, I
bought one of those 'ever so nice' Pyrex Goldfish Bowl' kettles which,
despite it's nice looking 'form decided by fashion' appearance proved
to be somewhat lacking in the 'function department' as well as rather
more hazardous in use.

In this case, it was even more awkward to fill through the spout and
not much better when popping its lid open. Water spilling past the
spout would find its way into the plastic base and then spill out a
good tablespoon's worth all over its docking station.

I took it back for a full refund a few days later but came up against
a "Store Manager" who seemed to be wilfully ignorant of his
obligations laid out in the SOGA. I gave up and tried again a few days
later when a different "Store Manager" fulfilled the SOGA obligations
without any undue fuss. The contrast between those two experiences
could hardly have been any greater. I wasn't in the least surprised
when Comet went bust a month or two later (Googling had provide me
with all the background I needed to eliminate any such surprise).
--
Regards, J B Good