Playpit sand vs builders sand
ARWadsworth
sandpit. Why?
What is wrong with builders sand for a sandpit? A quick look on google
suggests that playpit sand is washed, dust free and will not stain clothes
but as he is 4 years old and guaranteed to come in with dirty stained
clothes even if he has not been in the sandpit what's the point?
Am I missing something here?
Adam
George
"ARWadsworth" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> Am I missing something here?
>
> Adam
>
Yes...the coast road. :-)
Andrew Mawson
Builders sand will leave horrible yellow stains on clothes, hands and
anything else. Sandpit sand isn't exactly expensive - get the right
stuff.
AWEM
John Rumm
In these parts, sharp sand is a better replacement for playpit sand than
builders. It behaves more like beach sand and does not have as much
yellow clay in it.
--
Cheers,
John.
/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/
ARWadsworth
"George" <now...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:0Aumi.24303$p8.1...@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
If I was to load up a few bags of sand from the beach at Filey where my
parents have a holiday home I am sure pold would have something to say if I
was seen. I would also need to wash the donkeys turds out before putting the
sand in a sandpit.
Adam
Julian
In an ideal world you need silica sand. It's light in colour and doesn't
stain. It's used as a riding surface for horse ménages. Builders merchants
sell it, (dried out) and I use it for sand blasting because it's cheap. [1]
[1] Cue the safety Nazi blathering on about silicosis!
Julian.
Andrew Gabriel
"ARWadsworth" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> writes:
>
> If I was to load up a few bags of sand from the beach at Filey where my
> parents have a holiday home I am sure pold would have something to say if I
> was seen. I would also need to wash the donkeys turds out before putting the
> sand in a sandpit.
Don't forget to put the cat turds in, for that authentic
sandpit experience...
--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
The Natural Philosopher
The Natural Philosopher
> ARWadsworth wrote:
>
>> My girlfriend wants me to pick up some playpit sand this week for her
>> son's sandpit. Why?
>> What is wrong with builders sand for a sandpit? A quick look on google
>> suggests that playpit sand is washed, dust free and will not stain
>> clothes but as he is 4 years old and guaranteed to come in with dirty
>> stained clothes even if he has not been in the sandpit what's the point?
>
> In these parts, sharp sand is a better replacement for playpit sand than
> builders. It behaves more like beach sand and does not have as much
> yellow clay in it.
>
bastard's hands to ribbons.
Yup. A suitable replacement.
It also will stain the bugger yellow all over.
Sea sand has two things about it: it's worns smooth and the soluble
salts are washed out of it.
Builders and sharp sand are both gritty and dug up from where they are
found..the builders is merely a finer grading IIRC.
..
ARWadsworth
"Andrew Gabriel" <and...@cucumber.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:469a88a6$0$648$5a6a...@news.aaisp.net.uk...
> In article <nZumi.24325$p8.2...@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
> "ARWadsworth" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> writes:
>>
>> If I was to load up a few bags of sand from the beach at Filey where my
>> parents have a holiday home I am sure pold would have something to say if
>> I
>> was seen. I would also need to wash the donkeys turds out before putting
>> the
>> sand in a sandpit.
>
> Don't forget to put the cat turds in, for that authentic
> sandpit experience...
The local cats will be able to do it without my help. I can visualise them
passing messages down the street to their mates as I empty the van of a
couple of bags of sand.
Adam
John Rumm
> John Rumm wrote:
>> ARWadsworth wrote:
>>
>>> My girlfriend wants me to pick up some playpit sand this week for her
>>> son's sandpit. Why?
>>> What is wrong with builders sand for a sandpit? A quick look on
>>> google suggests that playpit sand is washed, dust free and will not
>>> stain clothes but as he is 4 years old and guaranteed to come in with
>>> dirty stained clothes even if he has not been in the sandpit what's
>>> the point?
>>
>> In these parts, sharp sand is a better replacement for playpit sand
>> than builders. It behaves more like beach sand and does not have as
>> much yellow clay in it.
>>
> Instead it has lots of lovely sharp edges that will cut the little
> bastard's hands to ribbons.
Which is why I added the qualification of "in these parts". Sharp sand
here is no more "sharp" than that found on Southend beach[1], and it is
also pretty much colour free.
[1] Granted that is not renowned for its softness since most of it was
imported sharp sand a hundred years ago or so.
> Yup. A suitable replacement.
>
> It also will stain the bugger yellow all over.
or not, depending on your local supply.
> Sea sand has two things about it: it's worns smooth and the soluble
> salts are washed out of it.
>
> Builders and sharp sand are both gritty and dug up from where they are
> found..the builders is merely a finer grading IIRC.
They are very different here - builders is a dark yellow, verging on
orange - but soft and not at all gritty, and sharp is straw coloured and
contains larger grains (stone fragments) very much like our beach sand.
John Rumm
Isn't all sand silica?
I tried Paving sand in the playpit once... but that was so fine that it
did not make good sandcastles etc. You also had to wet it down to make
it any fun at all.
Frank Erskine
<see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
>Isn't all sand silica?
>
>I tried Paving sand in the playpit once... but that was so fine that it
>did not make good sandcastles etc. You also had to wet it down to make
>it any fun at all.
What you need for proper sandcastles is moulding sand (and a supply of
parting sand)...
Horses for courses innit.
;-)
--
Frank Erskine
RobertL
wrote:
> "George" <nowh...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> news:0Aumi.24303$p8.1...@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>
>
>
> > "ARWadsworth" <adamwadswo...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> >> Am I missing something here?
>
> >> Adam
>
> > Yes...the coast road. :-)
We just filled our sandpit with 'sandpit sand' it took nearly half a
ton of it.
there's a very large range of prices.
Robert
manat...@hotmail.com
> John Rumm wrote:
> > ARWadsworth wrote:
>
> >> My girlfriend wants me to pick up some playpit sand this week for her
> >> son's sandpit. Why?
> >> What is wrong with builders sand for a sandpit? A quick look on google
> >> suggests that playpit sand is washed, dust free and will not stain
> >> clothes but as he is 4 years old and guaranteed to come in with dirty
> >> stained clothes even if he has not been in the sandpit what's the point?
>
> > In these parts, sharp sand is a better replacement for playpit sand than
> > builders. It behaves more like beach sand and does not have as much
> > yellow clay in it.
>
> Instead it has lots of lovely sharp edges that will cut the little
> bastard's hands to ribbons.
He might not be married to the child's mother but that doesn't mean
the child was born out of wedlock.
MBQ
ARWadsworth
<manat...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1184596829.6...@n60g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
But he was born out of wedlock. ISTR a news item that said in 2005 more
children were born out of wedlock than in wedlock, the first year that this
had happened.
Adam
ARWadsworth
"Andrew Mawson" <andrew@no_spam_please_mawson.org.uk> wrote in message
news:-sKdnWhwr-_...@bt.com...
I probably will buy it :) Its not the cost of the sand (and the sandpit is
not huge) I just have a shit loads of builders sand (and a fair bit of sharp
sand) in the back garden. You do realise that if I have to call at B&Q etc
to buy playpit sand the girlfiend will want to buy other things and give me
more work to do.
Adam
:Jerry:
>
<snip>
> You do realise that if I have to call at B&Q etc to buy playpit sand
> the girlfiend will want to buy other things and give me more work to
> do.
>
Then nip in on your own, surprise her (and the young lad)! :~)
Bob Mannix
Go to the sand and gravel merchants and buy "silver sand" (not the same as
sharp sand or builder's sand) which is the same as playpit sand. I got a
trailer load for not much a few years ago. It flows through tubes funnels
etc.
--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)
manat...@hotmail.com
wrote:
> <manatba...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
OK, so was my first child. I would still be upset if someone called
him a little bastard, even if it's technically correct.
MBQ
Stuart Noble
Weddings are getting more like funerals, unavoidably expensive, and only
slightly less depressing.
Lurch
<stuart_no...@ntlworld.com> mused:
At least at a funeral you can just turn up, mooch around a bit, eat
some finger food and then go home. Weddings are some long, drawn out,
ridiculously expensive occaSion, and you have to do the stag do as
WELL AND TRY and outdo eVERYONE ELSE at spending money.
--
Regards,
Stuart.
Stuart Noble
The bride spends a year preparing for it, by which time she has flipped
and become unfit for purpose, and the bridegroom is wondering whether
one of the waitresses might be a better bet.
:Jerry:
"Stuart Noble" <stuart_no...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:AL0ni.24182$_l6....@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...
<snip>
>
> Weddings are getting more like funerals, unavoidably expensive, and
> only slightly less depressing.
No, the Brides expectations are like that, it's still possible to get
married 'cheaply'...
Stuart Noble
> "Stuart Noble" <stuart_no...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:AL0ni.24182$_l6....@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...
>
> <snip>
>> Weddings are getting more like funerals, unavoidably expensive, and
>> only slightly less depressing.
>
> No, the Brides expectations are like that
Delightfully spoofed by Cameron Diaz in "Very Bad Things" circa 1998
, it's still possible to get
> married 'cheaply'...
>
>
To a disappointed bride? She'll keep that as ammunition and fire it at
you when you're feeling low.
:Jerry:
> :Jerry: wrote:
<snip>
>
> , it's still possible to get
>> married 'cheaply'...
>
> To a disappointed bride? She'll keep that as ammunition and fire it
> at you when you're feeling low.
Well obviously not if the bride wants to spend the first mortgage on
the wedding, if so, the groom should be asking if the 'bride' is the
correct one never mind if the venue is correct! :~o
dg
wrote:
> Lurch wrote:
> > On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 10:22:24 GMT, Stuart Noble
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hmmmm ..... reminds me of the old joke
On the afternoon of the wedding - Groom says to friend "Last week my
fiancee gave me her first blowjob, and it was amazing. I am going to
love married life"
Bride to friend "Last week I gave my last blowjob. I'm going to love
married life"
dg
ARWadsworth
There is only me that is married. Only for another two weeks or so though.
Adam
ARWadsworth
<manat...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1184665987....@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
I assumed the implication that the child is a bastard was not a dig at a
lack of wedlock. It was a way to describe having to go to B&Q for a child.
My Grandad can be "an annoying old bastard" when he phones to say he is
having trouble with the TV remote etc and he was born in wedlock. The
Natural Philosopher used the words "little bastard". That is more like a
term of endearment.
Adam
Owain
> I assumed the implication that the child is a bastard was not a dig at a
> lack of wedlock. It was a way to describe having to go to B&Q for a
> child. My Grandad can be "an annoying old bastard" when he phones to say
> he is having trouble with the TV remote etc and he was born in wedlock.
> The Natural Philosopher used the words "little bastard".
I agree.
> That is more like a term of endearment.
I wouldn't go *that* far in my assumptions :-)
Owain
Andy Hall
<manat...@hotmail.com> said:
Oh it's not such a stigma.
Even the French referred to William the Conqueror as Guillaume le
Bātard and I don't think that they thought badly of him. It was
certainly one in the eye for Harald.
Andrew Mawson
"Andy Hall" <an...@hall.nospam> wrote in message
news:469d...@nt1.hall.gl...
That's where the Fitz bit of surnames comes from isn't it Fitz-Patrick
is the bastard son of Patrick
AWEM
Andy Hall
>>
>
> That's where the Fitz bit of surnames comes from isn't it Fitz-Patrick
> is the bastard son of Patrick
>
> AWEM
Sort of like Patrick Fitzgordon and Gordon Fitzpatrick?
The Natural Philosopher
are concerned anyway..
ARWadsworth
"Owain" <owain...@stirlingcity.coo.uk> wrote in message
news:11847030...@proxy01.news.clara.net...
What term would you use for your Grandad when you have to take him shopping
for electrical goods and he refuses everything from Germay and Japan and
wants to see the English stuff. Comet and Currys staff avoid him like the
plague and I am surprised he is not banned from either.
Adam
Andy Hall
<adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> said:
That's a challenge.
Options might be Poland, Hungary, Romania. Some manufacturers have
factories in these places and at least Poland ought to be acceptable.
Otherwise, how about the Lucky Goldstar company. Korea should be OK as
well, and the company has abbreviated its name to LG to appear more
discrete in the West.
At one time there was an obscure Norwegian manufacturer - can't
remember the name now.
Owain
> What term would you use for your Grandad when you have to take him
> shopping for electrical goods and he refuses everything from Germay and
> Japan and wants to see the English stuff. Comet and Currys staff avoid
> him like the plague and I am surprised he is not banned from either.
:-)
Can you put a hidden camera on him and put the results on Youtube?
Owain
Roger
from "ARWadsworth" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> contains these words:
> What term would you use for your Grandad when you have to take him shopping
> for electrical goods and he refuses everything from Germay and Japan and
> wants to see the English stuff.
Hero?
If he fought in the 2nd world war (or even just lived through it) then
he has a right to feel aggrieved about the way in which the counties
that thankfully lost the war have now won the peace.
--
Roger Chapman
Clive George
news:3130303031313...@nospam.zetnet.co.uk...
Don't think so. It would be rather better to be happy that the countries
which demonstrated such bad behaviour have put all that behind them. The
people in those countries are no longer the same people he fought - there
have been 2 or 3 generations since.
He should be looking at why we "lost the peace", ie why our manufacturing
industry failed, rather than seeking to punish those who succeeded.
"Misguided" would be the word I'd use, but at this stage in his life I
wouldn't necessarily be trying to reeducate him.
</rant>
cheers,
clive
:Jerry:
"Clive George" <cl...@xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:469f3bd4$0$1595$ed26...@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
> "Roger" <ro...@nospam.zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:3130303031313...@nospam.zetnet.co.uk...
>> The message <dquni.26211$p8.1...@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
>> from "ARWadsworth" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> contains these
>> words:
>>
>>> What term would you use for your Grandad when you have to take him
>>> shopping
>>> for electrical goods and he refuses everything from Germay and
>>> Japan and
>>> wants to see the English stuff.
>>
>> Hero?
>>
>> If he fought in the 2nd world war (or even just lived through it)
>> then
>> he has a right to feel aggrieved about the way in which the
>> counties
>> that thankfully lost the war have now won the peace.
>
> Don't think so. It would be rather better to be happy that the
> countries which demonstrated such bad behaviour have put all that
> behind them. The people in those countries are no longer the same
> people he fought - there have been 2 or 3 generations since.
Sorry but it doesn't work like that for those who experienced it
directly, my father would not (knowingly) have Japanese stuff in his
house for many years, he had lost far to many of his mates to the
Burma傍hailand Railway ('The Railway of Death'), the only reason he
survived that ordeal was that he joined up under age in '39 and was
prevented from travelling (overseas) with his then regiment to
Singapore and straight into POW's. He was though able to 'accept' what
the Germans did to him in North Africa and later his regiment at
Arnham. He did eventually come to terms with what certain people did
in the name of Japan and their Emperor but I don't think he ever
forgave either Japan or Germany though - for his experiences and
wounds of the war troubled and stayed with him to his death bed.
Clive George
":Jerry:" <INV...@INVALID.INVALID> wrote in message
news:469f451e$0$97229$892e...@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net...
>
> "Clive George" <cl...@xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:469f3bd4$0$1595$ed26...@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
>> "Roger" <ro...@nospam.zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:3130303031313...@nospam.zetnet.co.uk...
>>> The message <dquni.26211$p8.1...@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
>>> from "ARWadsworth" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> contains these
>>> words:
>>>
>>>> What term would you use for your Grandad when you have to take him
>>>> shopping
>>>> for electrical goods and he refuses everything from Germay and Japan
>>>> and
>>>> wants to see the English stuff.
>>>
>>> Hero?
>>>
>>> If he fought in the 2nd world war (or even just lived through it) then
>>> he has a right to feel aggrieved about the way in which the counties
>>> that thankfully lost the war have now won the peace.
>>
>> Don't think so. It would be rather better to be happy that the countries
>> which demonstrated such bad behaviour have put all that behind them. The
>> people in those countries are no longer the same people he fought - there
>> have been 2 or 3 generations since.
>
> Sorry but it doesn't work like that for those who experienced it directly,
> my father would not (knowingly) have Japanese stuff in his house for many
> he joined up under age in '39 and was prevented from travelling (overseas)
> with his then regiment to Singapore and straight into POW's. He was though
> able to 'accept' what the Germans did to him in North Africa and later his
> regiment at Arnham. He did eventually come to terms with what certain
> people did in the name of Japan and their Emperor but I don't think he
> ever forgave either Japan or Germany though - for his experiences and
> wounds of the war troubled and stayed with him to his death bed.
Just because there are people who think that way doesn't make it any better.
It is stupid to blame the children and grandchildren of those who caused you
harm, especially when those children and grandchildren have done a good job
of not repeating the sins of their ancestors - that way lies vendetta, which
is a notoriously foolish thing.
I do realise that it can be hard to accept this - but it doesn't make it any
less true.
However in the bit you snipped, I did say "but at this stage in his life I
wouldn't necessarily be trying to reeducate him".
clive
:Jerry:
>> '39 and was prevented from travelling (overseas) with his then
>> regiment to Singapore and straight into POW's. He was though able
>> to 'accept' what the Germans did to him in North Africa and later
>> his regiment at Arnham. He did eventually come to terms with what
>> certain people did in the name of Japan and their Emperor but I
>> don't think he ever forgave either Japan or Germany though - for
>> his experiences and wounds of the war troubled and stayed with him
>> to his death bed.
>
> Just because there are people who think that way doesn't make it any
> better. It is stupid to blame the children and grandchildren of
> those who caused you harm, especially when those children and
> grandchildren have done a good job of not repeating the sins of
> their ancestors - that way lies vendetta, which is a notoriously
> foolish thing.
Indeed, but it's for the generations that follow to do the forgiving,
you just simply can't expect those who could well still be suffering
to do so.
>
> I do realise that it can be hard to accept this - but it doesn't
> make it any less true.
>
> However in the bit you snipped, I did say "but at this stage in his
> life I
> wouldn't necessarily be trying to reeducate him".
>
But it wouldn't have been right to do that 40 years ago either, you
can't expect people who have experienced what they have to just wipe
their minds of what's go before - if it was that easy victim support
would be a doodle....
ARWadsworth
"Andy Hall" <an...@hall.nospam> wrote in message
> On 2007-07-18 21:07:37 +0100, "ARWadsworth"
> <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> said:
>
>>
>> "Owain" <owain...@stirlingcity.coo.uk> wrote in message
>> news:11847030...@proxy01.news.clara.net...
>>> ARWadsworth wrote:
>>>> I assumed the implication that the child is a bastard was not a dig at
>>>> a lack of wedlock. It was a way to describe having to go to B&Q for a
>>>> child. My Grandad can be "an annoying old bastard" when he phones to
>>>> say he is having trouble with the TV remote etc and he was born in
>>>> wedlock. The Natural Philosopher used the words "little bastard".
>>>
>>> I agree.
>>>
>>>> That is more like a term of endearment.
>>>
>>> I wouldn't go *that* far in my assumptions :-)
>>
>> What term would you use for your Grandad when you have to take him
>> shopping for electrical goods and he refuses everything from Germay and
>> Japan and wants to see the English stuff. Comet and Currys staff avoid
>> him like the plague and I am surprised he is not banned from either.
>>
>> Adam
>
> That's a challenge.
Not for cars. The French still make them. A pity they drop to bits though.
> Options might be Poland, Hungary, Romania. Some manufacturers have
> factories in these places and at least Poland ought to be acceptable.
He did actually make it to Poland in the war and had to retreat to let the
red army in.
He also loves Belgium (someone has to) and was there the night Brussels was
liberated. He estimated 2000 people did the conga through a cafe that linked
two streets.
I am sure he once bought a Ferguson TV because it was made in Belgium. Of
course everything now says built/assembled in the EU.
> Otherwise, how about the Lucky Goldstar company. Korea should be OK as
> well, and the company has abbreviated its name to LG to appear more
> discrete in the West.
I think he will buy Korean without argument.
Adam
ARWadsworth
"Clive George" <cl...@xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:469f3bd4$0$1595$ed26...@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
> news:3130303031313...@nospam.zetnet.co.uk...
>> The message <dquni.26211$p8.1...@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
>> from "ARWadsworth" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> contains these words:
>>
>>> What term would you use for your Grandad when you have to take him
>>> shopping
>>> for electrical goods and he refuses everything from Germay and Japan and
>>> wants to see the English stuff.
>>
>> Hero?
>>
>> If he fought in the 2nd world war (or even just lived through it) then
>> he has a right to feel aggrieved about the way in which the counties
>> that thankfully lost the war have now won the peace.
>
> Don't think so. It would be rather better to be happy that the countries
> which demonstrated such bad behaviour have put all that behind them. The
> people in those countries are no longer the same people he fought - there
> have been 2 or 3 generations since.
I know those countries have but it behind them. There were more Germans at
Auschwitz paying their regards when I visited than there people like my
Grandad.
> "Misguided" would be the word I'd use, but at this stage in his life I
> wouldn't necessarily be trying to reeducate him.
I would say stubborn not misguided. There is no point arguing with an
intelligent old man so let him buy what he wants even if quality is not an
issue.
Adam
Andy Hall
<adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> said:
>
> "Andy Hall" <an...@hall.nospam> wrote in message news:469e...@nt1.hall.gl...
>> On 2007-07-18 21:07:37 +0100, "ARWadsworth"
>> <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> said:
>>
>>>
>>> "Owain" <owain...@stirlingcity.coo.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:11847030...@proxy01.news.clara.net...
>>>> ARWadsworth wrote:
>>>
>>> What term would you use for your Grandad when you have to take him
>>> shopping for electrical goods and he refuses everything from Germay and
>>> Japan and wants to see the English stuff. Comet and Currys staff avoid
>>> him like the plague and I am surprised he is not banned from either.
>>>
>>> Adam
>>
>> That's a challenge.
>
> Not for cars. The French still make them. A pity they drop to bits though.
I saw a Dacia today. Now there's a special product.
>
>> Options might be Poland, Hungary, Romania. Some manufacturers have
>> factories in these places and at least Poland ought to be acceptable.
>
> He did actually make it to Poland in the war and had to retreat to let
> the red army in.
>
> He also loves Belgium (someone has to) and was there the night Brussels
> was liberated.
That must have been some experience. My mother visited there
shortly afterwards and still describes how women accused of
collaborating had their heads shaved.
> He estimated 2000 people did the conga through a cafe that linked two streets.
> I am sure he once bought a Ferguson TV because it was made in Belgium.
> Of course everything now says built/assembled in the EU.
>
>> Otherwise, how about the Lucky Goldstar company. Korea should be OK as
>> well, and the company has abbreviated its name to LG to appear more
>> discrete in the West.
>
> I think he will buy Korean without argument.
So there you are. There's always a way once you know the sensitivities.
>
> Adam
Andy Hall
<adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> said:
>
> "Clive George" <cl...@xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:469f3bd4$0$1595$ed26...@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
>> "Roger" <ro...@nospam.zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:3130303031313...@nospam.zetnet.co.uk...
>>> The message <dquni.26211$p8.1...@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
>>> from "ARWadsworth" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> contains these words:
>>>
>>>> What term would you use for your Grandad when you have to take him shopping
>>>> for electrical goods and he refuses everything from Germay and Japan and
>>>> wants to see the English stuff.
>>>
>>> Hero?
>>>
>>> If he fought in the 2nd world war (or even just lived through it) then
>>> he has a right to feel aggrieved about the way in which the counties
>>> that thankfully lost the war have now won the peace.
>>
>> Don't think so. It would be rather better to be happy that the
>> countries which demonstrated such bad behaviour have put all that
>> behind them. The people in those countries are no longer the same
>> people he fought - there have been 2 or 3 generations since.
>
>
> I know those countries have but it behind them.
Yes and no.
> There were more Germans at Auschwitz paying their regards when I
> visited than there people like my Grandad.
Of course. There aren't large numbers of people left like your grandad.
I go to Germany quite often, and have been doing so for over 20 years
and on a first social meeting with a new contact it is very usual that
they will raise the subject. It used to be that there was a bit of a
guilt agenda behind this although it related to what parents had
sometimes done. Nowadays it's an acknowledgment of what happened - not
even a suggestion that "we've changed all these things so it won't
happen again" . There are certainly educational visits to Dachau and
such places and it's treated as part of history. I certainly didn't
have the impression that it was being sanitised but there wasn't
sackcloth and ashes either.
>
>> "Misguided" would be the word I'd use, but at this stage in his life I
>> wouldn't necessarily be trying to reeducate him.
>
> I would say stubborn not misguided.
I would say principled. There are too few people who are willing to
take a position on what they feel is important and to act accordingly.
> There is no point arguing with an intelligent old man so let him buy
> what he wants even if quality is not an issue.
I couldn't agree more. I'm sure that he's nobody's fool either and
almost certainly realises that products from former adversarial
countries are of good quality, but principle won't allow him to buy
them.
It's a waste of time having such a discussion in somewhere like
Curry's. They can't even manage to provide sensible customer service
on their wide range of products, let alone taking customer buying
criteria into account.
Here's a suggestion.
Next time he wantsto buy something, find a local retailer. Most of
them belong to purchasing consortia in order to compete with the big
boys anyway and pricing is fairly keen usually. If you do a bit of
research including manufacturers, you can usually find something that
will have been made in an acceptable country and won't be crap. He
won't have changed the world, but this level of detail for someone with
a lot of time with their thoughts won't go unnoticed.
Clive George
> I go to Germany quite often, and have been doing so for over 20 years and
> on a first social meeting with a new contact it is very usual that they
> will raise the subject. It used to be that there was a bit of a guilt
> agenda behind this although it related to what parents had sometimes done.
> Nowadays it's an acknowledgment of what happened - not even a suggestion
> that "we've changed all these things so it won't happen again" . There
> are certainly educational visits to Dachau and such places and it's
> treated as part of history. I certainly didn't have the impression that
> it was being sanitised but there wasn't sackcloth and ashes either.
I would be extremely disappointed if it were sackcloth and ashes. Over half
a century, or a couple of generations, means it is definitely part of
history. I believe they've still got the laws in place to prevent a similar
thing happening again, and I think this is a good thing - learning from
history is sensible (mmm, Afghanistan...), but otherwise it really is far
enough away that it is well past the time to forgive and move on.
(now if one were eg berating the Japanese for some of their current cultural
problems, I'd not be arguing so much...)
> I would say principled. There are too few people who are willing to
> take a position on what they feel is important and to act accordingly.
Regardless of what that position is? Having "principles" isn't necessarily a
good thing - it rather depends on what they are. In this case it's fairly
harmless - but not necessarily for others. (although some of the worse ones
can be quite good for GDP)
clive
Andy Hall
> "Andy Hall" <an...@hall.nospam> wrote in message news:469f...@nt1.hall.gl...
>
>> I go to Germany quite often, and have been doing so for over 20 years
>> and on a first social meeting with a new contact it is very usual that
>> they will raise the subject. It used to be that there was a bit of a
>> guilt agenda behind this although it related to what parents had
>> sometimes done. Nowadays it's an acknowledgment of what happened - not
>> even a suggestion that "we've changed all these things so it won't
>> happen again" . There are certainly educational visits to Dachau and
>> such places and it's treated as part of history. I certainly didn't
>> have the impression that it was being sanitised but there wasn't
>> sackcloth and ashes either.
>
> I would be extremely disappointed if it were sackcloth and ashes. Over
> half a century, or a couple of generations, means it is definitely part
> of history. I believe they've still got the laws in place to prevent a
> similar thing happening again, and I think this is a good thing -
> learning from history is sensible (mmm, Afghanistan...), but otherwise
> it really is far enough away that it is well past the time to forgive
> and move on.
Forgive. Possible for most, not for some.
Forget. No, and that would be wrong...
The challenge is how to treat each.
>
> (now if one were eg berating the Japanese for some of their current
> cultural problems, I'd not be arguing so much...)
One thing that I have learned over many years of traveling and meeting
people in a wide range of countries and cultures is that it really
isn't appropriate to berate them for theirs. They are what they are
and I think that it's bogus to propose changes for the purposes of
"betterment" (meaning do what we do). That's the behaviour of the
chimpanzee in Pennsylvania Ave. Perhaps people don't actually want
McDonalds, Starbucks and Nikes. Worst still, if they have had none of
these, they aren't exactly a quality introduction to the western way
and the global economy.
It's very noticable that as one moves outside of cosy Western Europe
that the spectrum between the haves and have nots becomes very wide
indeed. In the past couple of weeks, I've seen a little girl of
probably no more than 5 dodging between cars at traffic lights with a
squeezy bottle of water cleaning wing mirrors.
>
>> I would say principled. There are too few people who are willing to
>> take a position on what they feel is important and to act accordingly.
>
> Regardless of what that position is? Having "principles" isn't
> necessarily a good thing - it rather depends on what they are.
Of course.
> In this case it's fairly harmless - but not necessarily for others.
> (although some of the worse ones can be quite good for GDP)
Or bad.
For example, the operation of the Janus principle when buying things.
The one face bemoaning the loss of UK manufacturing while the other
wants to buy for the lowest price regardless of that.
BTW, I wouldn't apply this to Adam's grandad - that's quite a different
set of issues.
Clive George
news:469f...@nt1.hall.gl...
>> I would be extremely disappointed if it were sackcloth and ashes. Over
>> half a century, or a couple of generations, means it is definitely part
>> of history. I believe they've still got the laws in place to prevent a
>> similar thing happening again, and I think this is a good thing -
>> learning from history is sensible (mmm, Afghanistan...), but otherwise it
>> really is far enough away that it is well past the time to forgive and
>> move on.
>
> Forgive. Possible for most, not for some.
>
> Forget. No, and that would be wrong...
Indeed - history isn't about forgetting, rather the opposite.
>> (now if one were eg berating the Japanese for some of their current
>> cultural problems, I'd not be arguing so much...)
>
> One thing that I have learned over many years of traveling and meeting
> people in a wide range of countries and cultures is that it really isn't
> appropriate to berate them for theirs. They are what they are and I
> think that it's bogus to propose changes for the purposes of "betterment"
> (meaning do what we do).
I suspect you may be thinking of different "problems" to those I'm thinking
of. I was remembering what I've heard that being Gaijin in the country
presents problems beyond the obvious language and cultural barriers. Not
severe, but still relevant to the topic which started this subthread.
FWIW would you say that the significantly more severe problems which regimes
like those in Burma present "are what they are", or are worthy of berating
(though probably not while actually in the country...)
> Perhaps people don't actually want McDonalds, Starbucks and Nikes.
I sympathise with that view, but that's a different matter.
clive
Andy Hall
>>
>
> I suspect you may be thinking of different "problems" to those I'm
> thinking of. I was remembering what I've heard that being Gaijin in the
> country presents problems beyond the obvious language and cultural
> barriers. Not severe, but still relevant to the topic which started
> this subthread.
>
> FWIW would you say that the significantly more severe problems which
> regimes like those in Burma present "are what they are", or are worthy
> of berating (though probably not while actually in the country...)
Then I think it comes to practicalities.
Do I like the regime in Burma? Not really
Can I or am I willing to try to make a difference to it? Realistically
no. Even this is after one removes the media slanting.
Do I want to visit or do business there? Not really. Europe,
Africa and the Middle East are challenging enough.
None of us can fight every battle so I think it makes more sense to
look at those where we can make some difference