Is there a modern alternative to Araldite?
Steve
I've found it pretty good at sticking hard stuff to many other types of
hard stuff. I've nearly run out and need to get some more but it occurs
to me that adhesives might well have moved on in 40 years without me
noticing.
Are there better adhesives out there these days?
The Natural Philosopher
you want to bond, and whet conditions you are exposing the subsequent
joint to.
Araldite is probably the worst of all possible formulations. or was. I
use 'model shop' epoxies. Mainly 5 minute stuff and stove it in the Aga
at about 100C for best results.
Bill
<t...@invalid.invalid> writes
>Araldite is probably the worst of all possible formulations. or was.
When I wanted to get into boat building and not become too sensitised to
epoxy, I contacted a few people to find out where to buy industrial
quantities of quantities of resin.
Almost everyone pointed me to the makers of Araldite as being one of
only a handful, if that, of actual manufacturers of the stuff. I made
contact and Ciba-Geigy (I think it was) pointed me towards an
appropriate "manufacturer" of a suitable formulation who used their
resins.
I don't think epoxy is perfect, and the effect of UV light is a real
problem, but I haven't actually found anything better.
My biggest complaint with all chemicals, paints etc., is that it is so
difficult to find out what is actually in things, what is compatible and
what possible side effects and long term deterioration to expect. What I
need is a much better memory and simpler, more clear data.
I'm still looking for polyurethane glue that someone here suggested for
a particular task. Homebase had lots of things with fancy names, but not
many tubes said what they actually were.
--
Bill
NT
Epoxy is still the king of glues. There are certainly better suited
glues for a fair few apps though,
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Glue
plus some more industrial types such as PVB, melamine etc.
There's also a wide range of epoxies and additives available, check
out the range of west systems products.
NT
Roger Mills
Steve <steve...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
I've recently discovered BondLoc - having watched a bedroom fitter use it
for sticking plinths on bedroom furniture.
It comes in two containers - an aerosol containing an activator, and a small
bottle with a nozzle (bit like super glue) containing the adhesive. You
spray one surface with the activator and let it dry (almost instant), spread
adhesive from the nozzle on the other surface - and then press them
together. You've got a rock solid bond in about 10 seconds.
It wouldn't work if you had gaps to fill, or in cases where you couldn't
position the items accurately first time - but for things like plinths, it's
great (as long as you don't want to take them off again!). Like all things,
it's horses for courses - and Araldite still has its uses - but for sticking
things where gaps need to be filled, I tend to use Gripfill, since I can
apply it with a sealant gun and it doesn't need mixing.
On a slightly different subject, I've also recently discovered pocket hole
jigs - for drilling pocket holes which allow boards to be screwed together
in corner joints or side by side, with no screws showing on the outside.
Apologies if this is old hat to some of you. [In case you don't know what
I'm on about, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pocket_hole describes pocket
holes, and
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/pocket-hole-jig/path/woodworking-tables-benches-worktop-jigs
shows an example of a jig for creating them.]
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!
Gio
"Steve" <steve...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Syn4n.5874$fc3....@newsfe26.ams2...
Depends on what you are attaching and the speed of cure needed. e.g. One
epoxy I find quite remarkable is JB Weld. I have used this a multitude of
hard to do repairs of the years after 1st having it recommended to me to fix
a crack on the cast iron engine crankcase of our Citroen diesel. The oil
pressure sensor mounting split. I was fitting a secondary oil filter at the
time and was screwing in the tapered oil feed take-off and pressure sensor
fitting when at the last tighten I heard a crack. Starting the engine later
resulted in an quite serious oil leak. Examination revealed the crankcase
boss split because the casting oilway had been drilled off-centre and the
casing had cracked on the thinnest side :-( Anyway short answer was two
liberal coatings of JB weld, the 2nd around a supporting jubilee clip and
suffice to say the repair - subjected to vibration, hot oil at pressure,
road spray etc lasted 5 years until the car was sold.
We have since used it on fuel tank repairs, difficult plastics such a
toolbox clasps, model helicopters etc. Its only downside we have found is
the 24hr cure time to ensure a good bond and the fact it can sag unless
rotated / repositioned during initial setting. I gather there is a fast
cure 5 min version but we have never used that. Araldite for us never sort
of 'set hard' and although well mixed never seems to cure as 'hard' as JB
Weld.
Of course there are the Araldite metalised epoxies but again we find them a
little down on performance when it comes to a difficult repair so tend to
get used for non critical repairs. To be honest some of the Poundland
epoxies give a bond as good as the 3 to 4 times the price Araldite product.
Andy Dingley
> Are there better adhesives out there these days?
Better epoxies. They've been around as long as Araldite, just not so
obvious in retail packs.
Get a 16 quid West System small pack (search this newsgroup last week)
from Axminster, and some of their fillers too. I use about one of
these a year. Also search online for advice on filling it. A thin
epoxy works better and is stronger than Araldite, and you can thicken
it appropriately as needed.
Then there's UV-cure glue, which is coming up fast. Two grand's worth
of curing light is now down to 80 quid (search eBay under dentistry)
and the stuff is both strong and practically instant. Great for glass.
Usenet Nutter
<watt....@googlemail.com> wrote:
>I've recently discovered BondLoc - having watched a bedroom fitter use it
>for sticking plinths on bedroom furniture.
>
>It comes in two containers - an aerosol containing an activator, and a small
>bottle with a nozzle (bit like super glue) containing the adhesive. You
>spray one surface with the activator and let it dry (almost instant), spread
>adhesive from the nozzle on the other surface - and then press them
>together. You've got a rock solid bond in about 10 seconds.
That sounds like the stuff DG fitters used when they installed my
windows the other day
Roger Mills
What did it look like? This is what I bought:
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Adhesives+Sealants/Adhesives/Mitre+Adhesive+Kit+50g++200+ml/d180/sd2340/p47409
Usenet Nutter
<watt....@googlemail.com> wrote:
>In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
>Usenet Nutter <indivi...@takeoutmyteethgmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 16 Jan 2010 22:13:17 -0000, "Roger Mills"
>> <watt....@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I've recently discovered BondLoc - having watched a bedroom fitter
>>> use it for sticking plinths on bedroom furniture.
>>>
>>> It comes in two containers - an aerosol containing an activator, and
>>> a small bottle with a nozzle (bit like super glue) containing the
>>> adhesive. You spray one surface with the activator and let it dry
>>> (almost instant), spread adhesive from the nozzle on the other
>>> surface - and then press them together. You've got a rock solid bond
>>> in about 10 seconds.
>>
>> That sounds like the stuff DG fitters used when they installed my
>> windows the other day
>
>What did it look like? This is what I bought:
>http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Adhesives+Sealants/Adhesives/Mitre+Adhesive+Kit+50g++200+ml/d180/sd2340/p47409
I didn't get a close look at it Roger and I'm not sure what they
actually used it for ...at first I thought they were just using Super
Glue because of the type of bottle but then heard one asking for the
spray and saw him using the spray then the "glue" I see that stuff
can be used on PCV-u or (UPVC if you prefer) .
The Natural Philosopher
> "Steve" <steve...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:Syn4n.5874$fc3....@newsfe26.ams2...
>> I've used Araldite for 40 years or more on all kinds of diy repairs and
>> I've found it pretty good at sticking hard stuff to many other types of
>> hard stuff. I've nearly run out and need to get some more but it occurs
>> to me that adhesives might well have moved on in 40 years without me
>> noticing.
>>
>> Are there better adhesives out there these days?
>
> Depends on what you are attaching and the speed of cure needed. e.g. One
> epoxy I find quite remarkable is JB Weld.
That's polyester, not epoxy.
Gib Bogle
There are some situations where epoxy is not the easiest or most suitable.
Where some gap-filling is needed, where large amounts of adhesive will have a
tendency to flow away from where it's wanted, and where some strength reduction
is acceptable, the polyurethane in a cartridge is very useful, e.g. Selleys
Liquid Nails. I was sceptical at first, but now I'm frequently finding uses for it.
Gio
"The Natural Philosopher" <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:hitlna$81h$1...@news.albasani.net...
Not according to the manufacturers web site data sheet.
http://jbweld.net/techinfo/JB%20Weld-Epoxy%20Steel%20Resin-Overnight-48009.pdf
Gio
"The Natural Philosopher" <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:hitlna$81h$1...@news.albasani.net...
Not according to the manufacturers web site data sheet.
http://jbweld.net/techinfo/JB%20Weld-Epoxy%20Steel%20Resin-Overnight-48009.pdf
Gio
"The Natural Philosopher" <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:hitlna$81h$1...@news.albasani.net...
Not according to the manufacturers web site data sheet.
http://jbweld.net/techinfo/JB%20Weld-Epoxy%20Steel%20Resin-Overnight-48009.pdf
The Medway Handyman
>
> I'm still looking for polyurethane glue that someone here suggested
> for a particular task. Homebase had lots of things with fancy names,
> but not many tubes said what they actually were.
Titebond from Axminster?
--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
The Natural Philosopher
for a quick'n'dirtyy bodge nothing beats hot glue in a gun
sticks almost anything to anything (fairly strongly) quite gap filling
and very very fast.
Stuart Noble
Doesn't give you much time to position anything, so can only be used to
spot fix.
The super glue? mentioned earlier has the benefit of curing instantly,
but only after a whiff of the activator, which appears to be a gas of
some kind because it doesn't have to physically touch the glue. It
allows DG installers to fix long lengths of floppy trims in stages i.e.
they can get the bottom bit fixed, then work their way upwards
The Natural Philosopher
> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> Gib Bogle wrote:
>>> Steve wrote:
>>>> I've used Araldite for 40 years or more on all kinds of diy repairs
>>>> and I've found it pretty good at sticking hard stuff to many other
>>>> types of hard stuff. I've nearly run out and need to get some more
>>>> but it occurs to me that adhesives might well have moved on in 40
>>>> years without me noticing.
>>>>
>>>> Are there better adhesives out there these days?
>>>
>>> There are some situations where epoxy is not the easiest or most
>>> suitable. Where some gap-filling is needed, where large amounts of
>>> adhesive will have a tendency to flow away from where it's wanted,
>>> and where some strength reduction is acceptable, the polyurethane in
>>> a cartridge is very useful, e.g. Selleys Liquid Nails. I was
>>> sceptical at first, but now I'm frequently finding uses for it.
>>
>> for a quick'n'dirtyy bodge nothing beats hot glue in a gun
>>
>> sticks almost anything to anything (fairly strongly) quite gap filling
>> and very very fast.
>
> Doesn't give you much time to position anything, so can only be used to
> spot fix.
10-15 seconds really. The modern 'glue pot'
Dave Osborne
> Bill wrote:
>
>> I'm still looking for polyurethane glue that someone here suggested
>> for a particular task. Homebase had lots of things with fancy names,
>> but not many tubes said what they actually were.
>
> Titebond from Axminster?
>
>
Or Gorilla glue. Or anything referred to as PUR...
TheOldFellow
That's why my last filling tasted of fish for three days!
Jules
> I've used Araldite for 40 years or more on all kinds of diy repairs and
> I've found it pretty good at sticking hard stuff to many other types of
> hard stuff.
Has the formula changed over the years (possibly as various chemicals /
substances have fallen foul of various laws)? I remember it being pretty
good when I was a kid, but when I used some a few years ago (mixing
carefully according to directions) it didn't seem nearly as strong. Maybe
it was just the things I happened to be gluing, but it seemed consistently
weak on all of them.
(I'm not sure it even exists on this side of the Atlantic)
cheers
Jules
pete
> On Sat, 16 Jan 2010 18:28:02 +0000, Steve wrote:
>
>> I've used Araldite for 40 years or more on all kinds of diy repairs and
>> I've found it pretty good at sticking hard stuff to many other types of
>> hard stuff.
>
> Has the formula changed over the years (possibly as various chemicals /
> substances have fallen foul of various laws)? I remember it being pretty
> good when I was a kid, but when I used some a few years ago (mixing
> carefully according to directions) it didn't seem nearly as strong. Maybe
> it was just the things I happened to be gluing, but it seemed consistently
> weak on all of them.
The make-or-break :-) factor with pretty much all adhesives is the state
of the surfaces you're bonding. Apart from some being reet-boogers to glue
(such as polythene etc.) they are very sensitive to grease and other crud,
even in microscopic amounts, on the mating surfaces.
Rick Hughes
Araldite Rapid.
Rick Hughes
"Andy Dingley" <din...@codesmiths.com> wrote in message
news:9079b0ad-3fb3-493e...@p8g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
West System have recently added Six10 in a 190ml cartridge ... this is West
System world famous epoxy, with stiffeners already included in a self mixing
cartridge.
Bruce
LOL!
I agree. I have used Araldite for 40 years, and still use it. For
those purposes where you need a faster cure, there's Rapid.
Another Dave
> Are there better adhesives out there these days?
Off topic, but a filling fell out (big hole, right at the back), went to
the dentist expecting injections, drilling, etching and all the rest.
However, my previous dentist has retired and a new dolly dentist saw to me.
She told her assistant to mix a big ball of something, bunged it in the
hole, shaped it with her fingers and said "OK, that's it". Two minutes!
Does anybody know what it is?
Another Dave
Frank Erskine
wrote:
Car body filler.
--
Frank Erskine
The Medway Handyman
On a similar subject, anyone know how grab adhesives work? Some of the
newer ones like 'Serious Stuff' etc are simply incredible.
Bolted
blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> On a similar subject, anyone know how grab adhesives work? Some of the
> newer ones like 'Serious Stuff' etc are simply incredible.
The newer really impressive ones are MS Polymer (MS = modified silane,
and they are mostly polyurethanes).
I'm no chemist (hence reliance on wikipedia) but this gives some info
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-assembled_monolayer
On the general subject, the structural methacrylate glues are pretty
amazing, I called some industrial glue suppliers to get
recommendations about what glue to use for some stainless steel plates
- was expecting the answer to be ms polymer or possibly epoxy, but
they came back with these http://www.holdtite.com/shop/ProductList.aspx?cId=94.
Amazing stuff, like a pumped up holt melt on steroids (with a little
more open time).
PeterC
Also, about 25 years ago at work, a Bostik rep. called in with an adhesive
that could work on slightly greasy metal - in fact it worked better on that
than on degreased metals.
I've never seen it advertised anywhere, so perhaps it didn't fulfill its
promise.
--
Peter.
2x4 - thick plank; 4x4 - two of 'em.
Andy Dingley
> I agree. I have used Araldite for 40 years, and still use it. For
> those purposes where you need a faster cure, there's Rapid.
Apart from being weaker and utterly useless for hot service, Araldite
Rapid is also _slower_ than standard. Standard Araldite can be mixed
hot and will cure in a few minutes - really as fast as you're able to
work it.
Bruce
A useful hint, thanks.
The Medway Handyman
> On 17 Jan, 20:26, "The Medway Handyman" <davidl...@no-spam-
> blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On a similar subject, anyone know how grab adhesives work? Some of
>> the newer ones like 'Serious Stuff' etc are simply incredible.
>
> The newer really impressive ones are MS Polymer (MS = modified silane,
> and they are mostly polyurethanes).
>
> I'm no chemist (hence reliance on wikipedia) but this gives some info
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-assembled_monolayer
Thanks for that - interesting.
Rick Hughes
It was meant with humor .... I used rapid when I first started work .. 1975
! and it had been going years then.
Rick Hughes
"Frank Erskine" <frank....@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:hfs6l5tarrkejkf65...@4ax.com...
yep P38 great on incisors
prefer Isopon on molars
jkn
<rick_hughes@remove_me.btconnect.com> wrote:
>
> Apart from being weaker and utterly useless for hot service, Araldite
> Rapid is also _slower_ than standard. Standard Araldite can be mixed
> hot and will cure in a few minutes - really as fast as you're able to
> work it.
>
Hmm - I'm no great fan of Araldite rapid, but it will also set quicker
when heated. I did this very thing over the weekend, and it set
'strong' within a minute or two. I've never had the 'slow' Araldite
set so quickly. Do you know something I don't? (I use a hot air gun to
warm it up; I have put ceramics etc. in a cooling oven overnight with
the full strength stuff)
I do agree that Araldite Rapid is very poor strength- and adhesion-
wise when compared to the normal stuff. It also seems to me that
'years ago...' Araldite was stronger than it is now. However I put
that down to the amazement of youth, and lack of experience of using
it in many and varied applications.
J^n
Andy Dingley
> Hmm - I'm no great fan of Araldite rapid, but it will also set quicker
> when heated.
Too much risk of over-doing it and having it fail altogether, IMHO.
> I did this very thing over the weekend, and it set
> 'strong' within a minute or two. I've never had the 'slow' Araldite
> set so quickly.
It'll set while you're stirring it, if you over do it.
I use an adjustable lab stirrer hotplate, with a disposable aluminium
mince pie dish on top. You can use a kitchen electric stove instead,
but keep it low. If it discolours, smells, fumes, turns "gritty" or
indeed sets solid, you've overdone it.
jkn
On Jan 19, 2:33 pm, Andy Dingley <ding...@codesmiths.com> wrote:
>
> It'll set while you're stirring it, if you over do it.
>
> I use an adjustable lab stirrer hotplate, with a disposable aluminium
> mince pie dish on top. You can use a kitchen electric stove instead,
> but keep it low. If it discolours, smells, fumes, turns "gritty" or
> indeed sets solid, you've overdone it.
Sounds like you cook it substantially hotter than I've ever tried.
Useful to know you can go as high as that, thanks.
J^n
Man at B&Q
> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> > Gib Bogle wrote:
> >> Steve wrote:
> >>> I've used Araldite for 40 years or more on all kinds of diy repairs
> >>> and I've found it pretty good at sticking hard stuff to many other
> >>> types of hard stuff. I've nearly run out and need to get some more
> >>> but it occurs to me that adhesives might well have moved on in 40
> >>> years without me noticing.
>
> >>> Are there better adhesives out there these days?
>
> >> There are some situations where epoxy is not the easiest or most
> >> suitable. Where some gap-filling is needed, where large amounts of
> >> adhesive will have a tendency to flow away from where it's wanted, and
> >> where some strength reduction is acceptable, the polyurethane in a
> >> cartridge is very useful, e.g. Selleys Liquid Nails. I was sceptical
> >> at first, but now I'm frequently finding uses for it.
>
> > for a quick'n'dirtyy bodge nothing beats hot glue in a gun
>
> > sticks almost anything to anything (fairly strongly) quite gap filling
> > and very very fast.
>
> Doesn't give you much time to position anything, so can only be used to
> spot fix.
Spot fix and then apply as a fillet works very well for some
applications.
MBQ
Grimly Curmudgeon
drugs began to take hold. I remember The Natural Philosopher
<t...@invalid.invalid> saying something like:
>for a quick'n'dirtyy bodge nothing beats hot glue in a gun
>
>sticks almost anything to anything (fairly strongly) quite gap filling
>and very very fast.
Then goes hard and breaks off within a few weeks.