Backup hot water options for combi owners

[John Rumm]

In another thread someone made the comment "sensible people have an
alternate way of heating and providing hot water anyway"... Which made
me wonder how true that is?

Obviously most people with a hot water cylinder of some kind will have
an immersion heater available as a backup, but what about combi boiler
owners?

So of those of you with combi boilers providing all the hot water in the
property, do you have a backup should the boiler fail? If so what is it,
and how well do you find it works?


--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
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|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

[Ron]

An electric kettle.

"John Rumm" wrote in message
news:H-KdnRSy6LvKs_PF...@brightview.co.uk...

[Robin]

On 05/01/2017 11:30, John Rumm wrote:
> So of those of you with combi boilers providing all the hot water in the
> property, do you have a backup should the boiler fail? If so what is it,
> and how well do you find it works?
>

2 electric kettles plus a gas hob. But sadly no footman or maid to
carry the water to the bath. OTOH there's an electric shower over the
bath. So all in all "adequate".

Please don't tell me you've fitted an electric combi in parallel as a
fallback (and in readiness for the 2030 targets): I feel inadequate
enough as it is





--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

[phil...@gmail.com]

I have kettles and pans and fan heaters.... But when the combi fails none of them are really sufficient. Another reason I wish this house still had a hot water cylinder rather than a POS combi boiler.

[Peter Andrews]

What at £1700+VAT
(https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Heating_Index/Elnur_Cental_Heating_Boilers/index.html)
for an immersion heater with controls!

Perhaps I'm being a little bit cynical but they do seem quite expensive,
low demand?

Peter

[Tim Watts]

On 05/01/17 11:30, John Rumm wrote:
> In another thread someone made the comment "sensible people have an
> alternate way of heating and providing hot water anyway"... Which made
> me wonder how true that is?
>
> Obviously most people with a hot water cylinder of some kind will have
> an immersion heater available as a backup, but what about combi boiler
> owners?
>
> So of those of you with combi boilers providing all the hot water in the
> property, do you have a backup should the boiler fail? If so what is it,
> and how well do you find it works?
>
>

I have a Steibel-Eltron instantaneous water heater plumbed feeding all
HW pipework. 10kW give or take.

It does the sink, basin and fills a bath in about 30 minutes.

When I get a boiler fitted, it will remain as backup - with valves to
isolate the boiler and it respectively. It's slow but it is more than
good enough to live on and a lot better than cold water if the boiler dies.

Surprised more people don't do it...

[S Viemeister]

On 1/5/2017 6:30 AM, John Rumm wrote:
> In another thread someone made the comment "sensible people have an
> alternate way of heating and providing hot water anyway"... Which made
> me wonder how true that is?
>
> Obviously most people with a hot water cylinder of some kind will have
> an immersion heater available as a backup, but what about combi boiler
> owners?
>
> So of those of you with combi boilers providing all the hot water in the
> property, do you have a backup should the boiler fail? If so what is it,
> and how well do you find it works?
>

Electric shower. Dishwasher heats its own, washing machine heats its
own. Electric kettle, large stockpots.

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, 5 January 2017 11:30:34 UTC, John Rumm wrote:

> In another thread someone made the comment "sensible people have an
> alternate way of heating and providing hot water anyway"... Which made
> me wonder how true that is?
>
> Obviously most people with a hot water cylinder of some kind will have
> an immersion heater available as a backup, but what about combi boiler
> owners?
>
> So of those of you with combi boilers providing all the hot water in the
> property, do you have a backup should the boiler fail? If so what is it,
> and how well do you find it works?

For me it's one of the considerations when picking a system. It will fail, and secondary heating makes the difference between a very rushed job at price to match and taking the time to get a good price. That generally makes it worthwhile having some sort of backup. Time has proven the value of the strategy.

But I bet most people scarcely give it a 2nd thought. Then pay through the nose for work that could easily have been avoided. But there's nothing new there.


NT

[RJH]

Same here.

I was wondering how to neatly have the shower fed by the combi boiler,
but retain the electric shower as a fallback. I can only think of maybe
using a mixer tap for the combi feed, and simply unscrew the hose to the
elctric shower. But that would look a bit odd.

--
Cheers, Rob

[Bod]

>> I fitted an electric shower as a backup for the combi.

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 05/01/17 13:30, John Rumm wrote:
> In another thread someone made the comment "sensible people have an
> alternate way of heating and providing hot water anyway"... Which made
> me wonder how true that is?
>
> Obviously most people with a hot water cylinder of some kind will have
> an immersion heater available as a backup, but what about combi boiler
> owners?
>
> So of those of you with combi boilers providing all the hot water in the
> property, do you have a backup should the boiler fail? If so what is it,
> and how well do you find it works?
>
>

big pot and a stove

[spuorg...@gowanhill.com]

On Thursday, 5 January 2017 11:30:34 UTC, John Rumm wrote:

> So of those of you with combi boilers providing all the hot water in the
> property, do you have a backup should the boiler fail? If so what is it,
> and how well do you find it works?

When I had a combi boiler the backups were electric shower, kettle, and a fan heater, and a good local gas fitter on speed dial.

Owain

[S Viemeister]

Our electric shower is at the opposite end of the tub to the taps - I've
considered adding a shower fitting to the tub taps.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <H-KdnRSy6LvKs_PF...@brightview.co.uk>,

John Rumm <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
> In another thread someone made the comment "sensible people have an
> alternate way of heating and providing hot water anyway"... Which made
> me wonder how true that is?

> Obviously most people with a hot water cylinder of some kind will have
> an immersion heater available as a backup, but what about combi boiler
> owners?

> So of those of you with combi boilers providing all the hot water in the
> property, do you have a backup should the boiler fail? If so what is it,
> and how well do you find it works?

I'd assume your boiler isn't going to be out of commission for long - so
you could manage by heating water in a kettle and on the cooker?

Not having a bath or shower every day won't kill you. ;-)

--
*A bartender is just a pharmacist with a limited inventory *

Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[newshound]

On 1/5/2017 11:30 AM, John Rumm wrote:
> In another thread someone made the comment "sensible people have an
> alternate way of heating and providing hot water anyway"... Which made
> me wonder how true that is?
>
> Obviously most people with a hot water cylinder of some kind will have
> an immersion heater available as a backup, but what about combi boiler
> owners?
>
> So of those of you with combi boilers providing all the hot water in the
> property, do you have a backup should the boiler fail? If so what is it,
> and how well do you find it works?
>
>

At different times I have had an electric shower and an undersink store
of 5 litres or so. While I think combis are just about OK for small,
moderen, well insulated houses I generally hold them in the same regard
that most of the NG do Saniflows. In the absence of a pressurised hot
tank (ideal, but expensive and complicated) I think you can't beat a
conventional boiler with an unpressurised hot water tank (immersion
backup), especially with a booster pump to get decent DHW flow, if it's
a larger house.

[Charles F]

"newshound" <news...@stevejqr.plus.com> wrote in message
news:5rydnSeoOo0R_PPF...@brightview.co.uk...

It's probably gone out of fashion here recently, but there was a vogue a
while ago for self build heat bank systems on this NG. I put one together
(s/steel hot tank, normal central heating pump, plate heat exchanger, and
flow switch with homebrew electronics) about 8 years ago, and it's behaved
well to date. The big advantage is that it provides mains pressure hot water
without the expense and regular servicing needed by a pressurized hot tank,
and provides better flow rates than a combi, epecially in the winter. .

A heat bank is really the the equivalent of a combi with heat storage, and
because it includes water storage it can therfore have an immersion heater
as backup. With a log burner for space heating this gives us decent backup
both for hot water and space heating for power cuts and boiler failures.

Charles F


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[charles]

In article <55f9b61...@davenoise.co.uk>, Dave Plowman (News)

<da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <H-KdnRSy6LvKs_PF...@brightview.co.uk>, John Rumm
> <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
> > In another thread someone made the comment "sensible people have an
> > alternate way of heating and providing hot water anyway"... Which made
> > me wonder how true that is?

> > Obviously most people with a hot water cylinder of some kind will have
> > an immersion heater available as a backup, but what about combi boiler
> > owners?

> > So of those of you with combi boilers providing all the hot water in
> > the property, do you have a backup should the boiler fail? If so what
> > is it, and how well do you find it works?

> I'd assume your boiler isn't going to be out of commission for long - so
> you could manage by heating water in a kettle and on the cooker?



> Not having a bath or shower every day won't kill you. ;-)

Queen Elizabeth I had a bath once a year - whether she needed it or not.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

[John Rumm]

On 05/01/2017 12:12, Robin wrote:

Nope, I have a unvented cylinder heated from a system boiler. Immersion
heater backup.

[John Rumm]

It was a system that I looked at seriously for a bit, but in the end
went the unvented route...

> The big advantage is that it provides
> mains pressure hot water without the expense and regular servicing
> needed by a pressurized hot tank,

I do my own servicing on the cylinder - must take all of 15 mins per
year. (The service procedure is basically manually operate the over
pressure and over temperature valves and make sure they vent and then
reseal as they should. Shut off the water feed, and check the inlet
strainer is clear of debris. Check the pressure in the expansion vessel.
Job done).

> and provides better flow rates than a
> combi, epecially in the winter. .

Indeed it will ;-)

> A heat bank is really the the equivalent of a combi with heat storage,
> and because it includes water storage it can therfore have an immersion
> heater as backup. With a log burner for space heating this gives us
> decent backup both for hot water and space heating for power cuts and
> boiler failures.

Yup the thermal store / heat bank makes extra sense if you have other
sources of heat you can dump into it like a plumbed in log burner with
back boiler.

[harry]

On Thursday, 5 January 2017 11:30:34 UTC, John Rumm wrote:

The main thing that can fail is electricity.
Virtually everything needs it.

I have backup.
It's called a wood fired stove.
Also has hotplate for cooking.

Any backup has to be totally independent. ie not use electricity.
I also have candles, torches and a small petrol generator (for freezers)
I have telephones that don't need mains electricity.

I used to live in a very remote place which had power cuts.
Often lasted for days.

[ARW]

On 05/01/2017 12:12, Robin wrote:

> On 05/01/2017 11:30, John Rumm wrote:
>> So of those of you with combi boilers providing all the hot water in the
>> property, do you have a backup should the boiler fail? If so what is it,
>> and how well do you find it works?
>>
>
> 2 electric kettles plus a gas hob. But sadly no footman or maid to
> carry the water to the bath. OTOH there's an electric shower over the
> bath. So all in all "adequate".

I would just nip round to the gf's and use her bath.


--
Adam

[Harry Bloomfield]

John Rumm pretended :

> On 05/01/2017 12:12, Robin wrote:
>> On 05/01/2017 11:30, John Rumm wrote:
>>> So of those of you with combi boilers providing all the hot water in the
>>> property, do you have a backup should the boiler fail? If so what is it,
>>> and how well do you find it works?
>>>
>>
>> 2 electric kettles plus a gas hob. But sadly no footman or maid to
>> carry the water to the bath. OTOH there's an electric shower over the
>> bath. So all in all "adequate".
>>
>> Please don't tell me you've fitted an electric combi in parallel as a
>> fallback (and in readiness for the 2030 targets): I feel inadequate
>> enough as it is
>
> Nope, I have a unvented cylinder heated from a system boiler. Immersion
> heater backup.

Cylinder heated by system boiler, then immersion heater as backup, or
kettles, or pans on gas stove.

In the drive I have the caravan, which has water heater which can run
on gas or 240v, which can provide a good shower and off grid cooking,
plus off grid heating.

[DJC]

On 05/01/17 11:30, John Rumm wrote:
> In another thread someone made the comment "sensible people have an
> alternate way of heating and providing hot water anyway"... Which made
> me wonder how true that is?
>
> Obviously most people with a hot water cylinder of some kind will have
> an immersion heater available as a backup, but what about combi boiler
> owners?
>
> So of those of you with combi boilers providing all the hot water in the
> property, do you have a backup should the boiler fail? If so what is it,
> and how well do you find it works?

In the old flat, no backup other than a kettle. Now in house with 30
year old oil boiler, loft tanks, immersion heater, and electric shower.
Will need to be replaced sometime, not least because an electric shower
is rather feeble at this time of year.



--
djc

(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿)
No low-hanging fruit, just a lot of small berries up a tall tree.

[DJC]

On 05/01/17 14:53, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <H-KdnRSy6LvKs_PF...@brightview.co.uk>,
> John Rumm <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
>> In another thread someone made the comment "sensible people have an
>> alternate way of heating and providing hot water anyway"... Which made
>> me wonder how true that is?
>
>> Obviously most people with a hot water cylinder of some kind will have
>> an immersion heater available as a backup, but what about combi boiler
>> owners?
>
>> So of those of you with combi boilers providing all the hot water in the
>> property, do you have a backup should the boiler fail? If so what is it,
>> and how well do you find it works?
>
> I'd assume your boiler isn't going to be out of commission for long - so
> you could manage by heating water in a kettle and on the cooker?
>
> Not having a bath or shower every day won't kill you. ;-)

quite, and in the worst case, it wouldn't break the bank to spend a few
nights in the very good hotel down the road.

[David]

On Thu, 05 Jan 2017 11:30:33 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

> In another thread someone made the comment "sensible people have an
> alternate way of heating and providing hot water anyway"... Which made
> me wonder how true that is?
>
> Obviously most people with a hot water cylinder of some kind will have
> an immersion heater available as a backup, but what about combi boiler
> owners?
>
> So of those of you with combi boilers providing all the hot water in the
> property, do you have a backup should the boiler fail? If so what is it,
> and how well do you find it works?

Heating - wood burner.
Gas hob.
Dishwasher and clothes washer both heat from cold.

If I really, really need a wash (and it is only January) I can visit a
friend.

Alternatively the motor home on the drive is fully self sufficient and
also serves as a backup should there be a prolonged power cut.


Come the long delayed revolution I may also have an electric shower and a
wood burner in the Mother Of All Sheds but that is unlikely this year (or
even next).

Emergency electric shower wasn't even considered; washing isn't an
essential thing for the expected time to fix a combi boiler. I would be
more concerned about a power cut.

Cheers


Dave R


--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

[jim]

newshound <news...@stevejqr.plus.com> Wrote in message:

Indeed, my choice here more or less, but thermal store rather than
traditional cylinder. Immersion backups in the store as last
resort. Booster pump provides 4 bar 50l/min (cough) to both hot &
cold house wide.
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

[Andrew]

On 05/01/2017 11:30, John Rumm wrote:
> In another thread someone made the comment "sensible people have an
> alternate way of heating and providing hot water anyway"... Which made
> me wonder how true that is?
>
> Obviously most people with a hot water cylinder of some kind will have
> an immersion heater available as a backup, but what about combi boiler
> owners?
>
> So of those of you with combi boilers providing all the hot water in the
> property, do you have a backup should the boiler fail? If so what is it,
> and how well do you find it works?
>
>

Cue Dim (IMM) ...

Another combi

[Andrew]

On 05/01/2017 14:53, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <H-KdnRSy6LvKs_PF...@brightview.co.uk>,
> John Rumm <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:

> I'd assume your boiler isn't going to be out of commission for long - so
> you could manage by heating water in a kettle and on the cooker?
>
> Not having a bath or shower every day won't kill you. ;-)
>

Or even several days when the weather is cold or cool.

[John Rumm]

I was waiting for someone to suggest it! ;-)

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <ed7suo...@mid.individual.net>,

David <wib...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> If I really, really need a wash (and it is only January) I can visit a
> friend.

You can wash all the smelly bits at the sink with a flannel. ;-)

--
*When chemists die, they barium.*

[Rod Speed]

"harry" <harry...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:266a4502-cc71-49f9...@googlegroups.com...

No point in the candles in that lot IMO.

[Rod Speed]

"Andrew" <Andrew9...@mybtinternet.com> wrote in message
news:o4mmkh$1tnc$3...@gioia.aioe.org...

Doesn’t matter what the weather, nothing will kill you.

You might get a bit smelly, but that’s about it.

[simon mitchelmore]

From a landlord's view there's a definite market for an emergency parallel system for combis and most modern places dont have space for HW cylinders.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Well in fact they do. You can shove a pressurised cylinder anywhere.
Corner of the kitchen etc.

[simon mitchelmore]

> Well in fact they do. You can shove a pressurised cylinder anywhere.
> Corner of the kitchen etc.

No what I mean is an in line heater, no cylinder, just a something really compact similar to an electric shower which plugs into 13A socket (i.e. =<3kW) and feeds either special tap or emerg hot water tap. It should be able to fit under the sink. The much slower hot water flow rate would be tolerable as its emergency* only.

* When I say 'emergency' this has a different meaning for anyone born after 1970 i.e their heating is temporarily off, mobile phone is out of credit or cannot log into Facebook. For us oldies it means an emergency; nuclear war, collision with another planet etc.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <59be83a1-7f5f-4a6e...@googlegroups.com>,

Any instant water heater that is of much use is going to cost and take up
space.

To get a decent flow of hot water continuously needs a great deal of
heating power - more than can usually be obtained from a domestic
electricity supply. So you either use a storage system or an instant gas
water heater.

--
*Indian Driver - Smoke signals only*

[Dave Liquorice]

On Fri, 06 Jan 2017 11:04:01 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

> To get a decent flow of hot water continuously needs a great deal of
> heating power - more than can usually be obtained from a domestic
> electricity supply.

Recent domestic supplies are normally 100 A (23 kW) these days.
That'll
heat water by 50 C (ie 15 C to 65 C) at just under 7l/min.

How hot does the OP want his hot water, at what rate?

What failure mode of the combi is the OP anticipating? Break down of
it with mains supplies (gas and electricty) still present, failure of
one or both mains supplies?

IMHO a kettle and camping stove/hob is hard to beat.

--
Cheers
Dave.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <nyyfbegfubjuvyypb...@news.individual.net>,

Dave Liquorice <allsortsn...@howhill.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 06 Jan 2017 11:04:01 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

> > To get a decent flow of hot water continuously needs a great deal of
> > heating power - more than can usually be obtained from a domestic
> > electricity supply.

> Recent domestic supplies are normally 100 A (23 kW) these days.
> That'll
> heat water by 50 C (ie 15 C to 65 C) at just under 7l/min.

> How hot does the OP want his hot water, at what rate?

Yes. But good luck finding a domestic electric instant water heater that
takes 23 kW. Unlike a gas one.

> What failure mode of the combi is the OP anticipating? Break down of
> it with mains supplies (gas and electricty) still present, failure of
> one or both mains supplies?

> IMHO a kettle and camping stove/hob is hard to beat.

Quite. Unless breakdowns are frequent for whatever reason is it really
worth spending a lot on backups?

--
*There's no place like www.home.com *

[spuorg...@gowanhill.com]

On Friday, 6 January 2017 09:53:04 UTC, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> Well in fact they do. You can shove a pressurised cylinder anywhere.
> Corner of the kitchen etc.

Where that old copper was before they modernised? :-)

Owain

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Friday, 6 January 2017 11:21:38 UTC, Dave Liquorice wrote:
> On Fri, 06 Jan 2017 11:04:01 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>
> > To get a decent flow of hot water continuously needs a great deal of
> > heating power - more than can usually be obtained from a domestic
> > electricity supply.
>
> Recent domestic supplies are normally 100 A (23 kW) these days.
> That'll
> heat water by 50 C (ie 15 C to 65 C) at just under 7l/min.
>
> How hot does the OP want his hot water, at what rate?
>
> What failure mode of the combi is the OP anticipating? Break down of
> it with mains supplies (gas and electricty) still present, failure of
> one or both mains supplies?

3kW is enough to get you showers etc until the main system is sorted.

> IMHO a kettle and camping stove/hob is hard to beat.

Most women would not agree.


NT

[Vir Campestris]

On 06/01/2017 18:54, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:
> 3kW is enough to get you showers etc until the main system is sorted.

I think a 3kW shower would be a bit feeble.

My ultimate backup is to go somewhere else - kids in different towns,
and a shower at work. That's after the boiler AND the immersion heater
have died.

We have a wood burner for heating in power cuts, and a camping stove.

I'm surprised how many people have a combi (best point being excellent
showers) and then an electric shower!

Andy

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Friday, 6 January 2017 22:48:18 UTC, Vir Campestris wrote:

> On 06/01/2017 18:54, tabbypurr wrote:
> > 3kW is enough to get you showers etc until the main system is sorted.
>
> I think a 3kW shower would be a bit feeble.

It's not luxury but it does the job fine.

> My ultimate backup is to go somewhere else - kids in different towns,
> and a shower at work. That's after the boiler AND the immersion heater
> have died.
>
> We have a wood burner for heating in power cuts, and a camping stove.
>
> I'm surprised how many people have a combi (best point being excellent
> showers) and then an electric shower!
>
> Andy

NT

[S Viemeister]

On 1/6/2017 5:48 PM, Vir Campestris wrote:

> I'm surprised how many people have a combi (best point being excellent
> showers) and then an electric shower!
>

We have a combi and an electric shower, because the previous heat/hot
water was provided by a Rayburn in the kitchen and a back boiler in the
living room - the electric shower was useful in Summer, when the heating
was off.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <-t6dnWZPs9Etg-3F...@brightview.co.uk>,

Vir Campestris <vir.cam...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> I'm surprised how many people have a combi (best point being excellent
> showers) and then an electric shower!

One reason I didn't get a combi, as the flow rate can't match my low
pressure Aqualisa shower from the storage cylinder. Or fill the bath as
fast. And of course a storage cylinder can have an immersion.

--
*Okay, who stopped the payment on my reality check? *

[James Wilkinson Sword]

On Thu, 05 Jan 2017 13:56:26 -0000, Bod <bodr...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> On 05/01/2017 13:42, RJH wrote:
>> On 05/01/2017 13:32, S Viemeister wrote:

>>> On 1/5/2017 6:30 AM, John Rumm wrote:
>>>> In another thread someone made the comment "sensible people have an
>>>> alternate way of heating and providing hot water anyway"... Which made
>>>> me wonder how true that is?
>>>>
>>>> Obviously most people with a hot water cylinder of some kind will have
>>>> an immersion heater available as a backup, but what about combi boiler
>>>> owners?
>>>>
>>>> So of those of you with combi boilers providing all the hot water in the
>>>> property, do you have a backup should the boiler fail? If so what is it,
>>>> and how well do you find it works?
>>>>

>>> Electric shower. Dishwasher heats its own, washing machine heats its
>>> own. Electric kettle, large stockpots.
>>>
>>
>> Same here.
>>
>> I was wondering how to neatly have the shower fed by the combi boiler,
>> but retain the electric shower as a fallback. I can only think of maybe
>> using a mixer tap for the combi feed, and simply unscrew the hose to the
>> elctric shower. But that would look a bit odd.
>>
> >> I fitted an electric shower as a backup for the combi.

As cold showers would be the end of the world.....

--
Cobra: 2 conjoined bras.

[ss]

On 06/01/2017 00:06, John Rumm wrote:
> On 05/01/2017 23:54, Andrew wrote:
>> On 05/01/2017 11:30, John Rumm wrote:
>>> In another thread someone made the comment "sensible people have an
>>> alternate way of heating and providing hot water anyway"... Which made
>>> me wonder how true that is?
>>>
>>> Obviously most people with a hot water cylinder of some kind will have
>>> an immersion heater available as a backup, but what about combi boiler
>>> owners?
>>>
>>> So of those of you with combi boilers providing all the hot water in the
>>> property, do you have a backup should the boiler fail? If so what is it,
>>> and how well do you find it works?
>>>
>>>
>> Cue Dim (IMM) ...
>>
>> Another combi
>
>
> I was waiting for someone to suggest it! ;-)
>

Well my back up is that I know a plumber who is a previous neighbour of
old and will put me to the front of the queue for repairs. I am on combi
but also have electric shower with a couple of cheap halogen heaters for
room heating if required.
Last house old style gas boiler packed in and had a new combi fitted
within the week, this house a thermostat failure and sorted in 2 days
all at mates rates.
I can live with that.

[RJH]

On 05/01/2017 14:31, S Viemeister wrote:

> On 1/5/2017 8:42 AM, RJH wrote:
>> On 05/01/2017 13:32, S Viemeister wrote:
>>> On 1/5/2017 6:30 AM, John Rumm wrote:

>>>> So of those of you with combi boilers providing all the hot water in
>>>> the
>>>> property, do you have a backup should the boiler fail? If so what is
>>>> it,
>>>> and how well do you find it works?

>>> Electric shower. Dishwasher heats its own, washing machine heats its
>>> own. Electric kettle, large stockpots.
>> Same here.
>> I was wondering how to neatly have the shower fed by the combi boiler,
>> but retain the electric shower as a fallback. I can only think of maybe
>> using a mixer tap for the combi feed, and simply unscrew the hose to the
>> elctric shower. But that would look a bit odd.
>>

> Our electric shower is at the opposite end of the tub to the taps - I've
> considered adding a shower fitting to the tub taps.
>

Yes, same here, although it'd still look a bit odd, and need a more
elaborate curtain/screen.

--
Cheers, Rob

[T i m]

On Thu, 5 Jan 2017 11:30:33 +0000, John Rumm
<see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:

>In another thread someone made the comment "sensible people have an
>alternate way of heating and providing hot water anyway"... Which made
>me wonder how true that is?
>

Multipoint water heater for basin, sink and bath. Electric shower also
in the (corner) bath + (gas / electric) kettle for basins. Dishwasher
/ washing machine cold feed.

Cheers, T i m

[Dave Liquorice]

On Fri, 6 Jan 2017 15:06:46 -0800 (PST), tabb...@gmail.com wrote:

>>> 3kW is enough to get you showers etc until the main system is
sorted.
>>
>> I think a 3kW shower would be a bit feeble.
>
> It's not luxury but it does the job fine.

3kW gives you a 43 C temperature rise a 1 (one) litre per minute or
the low 50's C dribble, at the shower head. Evaporation of the
droplets cools them pretty rapidly. 50 C at the head will feel
decidedly cool.

Better off using your 3 kW to heat a kettle full of water and use it
to raise the temp of some cold water in a wash basin.

--
Cheers
Dave.

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Monday, 9 January 2017 21:25:47 UTC, Dave Liquorice wrote:

> On Fri, 6 Jan 2017 15:06:46 -0800 (PST), tabbypurr wrote:

> >>> 3kW is enough to get you showers etc until the main system is
> sorted.
> >>
> >> I think a 3kW shower would be a bit feeble.
> >
> > It's not luxury but it does the job fine.
>
> 3kW gives you a 43 C temperature rise a 1 (one) litre per minute or
> the low 50's C dribble, at the shower head. Evaporation of the
> droplets cools them pretty rapidly. 50 C at the head will feel
> decidedly cool.
>
> Better off using your 3 kW to heat a kettle full of water and use it
> to raise the temp of some cold water in a wash basin.

50C at the head would cause injury. 38C is more normal, a rise of about 23C summer 33C winter. So you get around 2 lpm on such a basic setup. Not luxury, but does the job ok.


NT

[Dave Liquorice]

On Fri, 06 Jan 2017 13:26:00 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

>> Recent domestic supplies are normally 100 A (23 kW) these days.
>> That'll heat water by 50 C (ie 15 C to 65 C) at just under 7l/min.
>>
>> How hot does the OP want his hot water, at what rate?
>
> Yes. But good luck finding a domestic electric instant water heater that
> takes 23 kW. Unlike a gas one.

Fair point the largest electric flow boiler I can find is 15
kW:

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Heating_Index/Elnur_Cental_Hea
ting_Boilers/index.html

There are quite a few around 12 kW.

>> IMHO a kettle and camping stove/hob is hard to beat.
>
> Quite. Unless breakdowns are frequent for whatever reason is it really
> worth spending a lot on backups?

Not the £1700 + VAT that the combi (ie heating and hot water) version
of the above costs. The heating only version is only £800 ish +
VAT...

--
Cheers
Dave.

[Vir Campestris]

On 09/01/2017 21:36, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:
> 50C at the head would cause injury. 38C is more normal, a rise of about 23C summer 33C winter. So you get around 2 lpm on such a basic setup. Not luxury, but does the job ok.

I like a hot shower.

38 at the head is 1 degree above my blood heat. I have baths warmer than
that. I can quite believe 50 at the head, 45 when it gets to me.

No good way to measure it though.

Andy

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Monday, 9 January 2017 21:54:22 UTC, Vir Campestris wrote:

Take the measurements & let us know. They won't be 50 & 45.


NT

[Dave Liquorice]

On Mon, 9 Jan 2017 13:36:41 -0800 (PST), tabb...@gmail.com wrote:

> 50C at the head would cause injury. 38C is more normal,

Bollocks. Those pigging annoying "safe" thermostatic valves set at 43
C are on the cool side of tepid. The water comes out of our taps at
just over 50 C, as that is about as high as the mixer valve on the
thermal store will go. It's hot but not ouch hot. Stored hotwater
should be over 60 C IIRC, such system generally don't have mixer
valves to limit that reaching the taps. I'd not want the 80 C plus
that the store is at getting to the taps...

--
Cheers
Dave.

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, 15 January 2017 01:52:35 UTC, Dave Liquorice wrote:

> On Mon, 9 Jan 2017 13:36:41 -0800 (PST), tabbypurr wrote:
>
> > 50C at the head would cause injury. 38C is more normal,
>
> Bollocks. Those pigging annoying "safe" thermostatic valves set at 43
> C are on the cool side of tepid. The water comes out of our taps at
> just over 50 C, as that is about as high as the mixer valve on the
> thermal store will go. It's hot but not ouch hot. Stored hotwater
> should be over 60 C IIRC, such system generally don't have mixer
> valves to limit that reaching the taps. I'd not want the 80 C plus
> that the store is at getting to the taps...

Let us know what you measure at the head, ie when you have data.


NT

[Dave Liquorice]

On Sat, 14 Jan 2017 18:06:57 -0800 (PST), tabb...@gmail.com wrote:

>> Bollocks. Those pigging annoying "safe" thermostatic valves set at
43
>> C are on the cool side of tepid. The water comes out of our taps
at
>> just over 50 C, as that is about as high as the mixer valve on the
>> thermal store will go. It's hot but not ouch hot. Stored hotwater
>> should be over 60 C IIRC, such system generally don't have mixer
>> valves to limit that reaching the taps. I'd not want the 80 C plus
>> that the store is at getting to the taps...
>
> Let us know what you measure at the head, ie when you have data.

The 50 C + at the taps is a measurement.

--
Cheers
Dave.

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, 15 January 2017 02:22:17 UTC, Dave Liquorice wrote:

> On Sat, 14 Jan 2017 18:06:57 -0800 (PST), tabbypurr wrote:

> >> Bollocks. Those pigging annoying "safe" thermostatic valves set at
> 43
> >> C are on the cool side of tepid. The water comes out of our taps
> at
> >> just over 50 C, as that is about as high as the mixer valve on the
> >> thermal store will go. It's hot but not ouch hot. Stored hotwater
> >> should be over 60 C IIRC, such system generally don't have mixer
> >> valves to limit that reaching the taps. I'd not want the 80 C plus
> >> that the store is at getting to the taps...
> >
> > Let us know what you measure at the head, ie when you have data.
>
> The 50 C + at the taps is a measurement.

I'm asking bout the shower head.


NT

[tim...]

"Dave Liquorice" <allsortsn...@howhill.com> wrote in message
news:nyyfbegfubjuvyypb...@news.individual.net...

> On Mon, 9 Jan 2017 13:36:41 -0800 (PST), tabb...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> 50C at the head would cause injury. 38C is more normal,
>
> Bollocks. Those pigging annoying "safe" thermostatic valves set at 43
> C are on the cool side of tepid.

well when mine is set at its max of 38 degrees it's un-bearably hot.

I have no idea how accurate they are and what the real temp is

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <9c45ce07-55ec-448b...@googlegroups.com>,

You have a shower fed from only the hot water?

--
*Why does the sun lighten our hair, but darken our skin?

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, 15 January 2017 11:18:26 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <9c45ce07-55ec-448b...@googlegroups.com>,

> <tabbypurr> wrote:
> > On Sunday, 15 January 2017 02:22:17 UTC, Dave Liquorice wrote:
> > > On Sat, 14 Jan 2017 18:06:57 -0800 (PST), tabbypurr wrote:
>
> > > >> Bollocks. Those pigging annoying "safe" thermostatic valves set at
> > > 43
> > > >> C are on the cool side of tepid. The water comes out of our taps
> > > at
> > > >> just over 50 C, as that is about as high as the mixer valve on the
> > > >> thermal store will go. It's hot but not ouch hot. Stored hotwater
> > > >> should be over 60 C IIRC, such system generally don't have mixer
> > > >> valves to limit that reaching the taps. I'd not want the 80 C plus
> > > >> that the store is at getting to the taps...
> > > >
> > > > Let us know what you measure at the head, ie when you have data.
> > >
> > > The 50 C + at the taps is a measurement.
>
> > I'm asking bout the shower head.
>
> You have a shower fed from only the hot water?

I see you're back to not being sensible.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <3db05798-ac73-4e63...@googlegroups.com>,

Really? Why should there be a difference between hot water only measured
at a shower head or tap? If it is lower than the temperature leaving the
tanks etc that will be down to losses in the pipe runs - and that is going
to vary between houses.

--
*Two wrongs are only the beginning *

[Tim+]

I would hazard a guess at considerably more than that. Water loses heat
very fast once it leaves a shower head. To feel unbearably hot by the time
it reaches you it probably needs to have started off at a long way above
blood heat.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, 15 January 2017 17:52:05 UTC, Tim+ wrote:
> tim... <tims_n...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > "Dave Liquorice" <allsortsn...@howhill.com> wrote in message
> > news:nyyfbegfubjuvyypb...@news.individual.net...

> >> On Mon, 9 Jan 2017 13:36:41 -0800 (PST), tabbypurr wrote:
> >>
> >>> 50C at the head would cause injury. 38C is more normal,
> >>
> >> Bollocks. Those pigging annoying "safe" thermostatic valves set at 43
> >> C are on the cool side of tepid.
> >
> > well when mine is set at its max of 38 degrees it's un-bearably hot.
> >
> > I have no idea how accurate they are and what the real temp is
> >
>
> I would hazard a guess at considerably more than that. Water loses heat
> very fast once it leaves a shower head. To feel unbearably hot by the time
> it reaches you it probably needs to have started off at a long way above
> blood heat.
>
> Tim

another that hasn't measured the temps but is sure he knows.

[Dave Liquorice]

On Sat, 14 Jan 2017 20:31:09 -0800 (PST), tabb...@gmail.com wrote:

>>> Let us know what you measure at the head, ie when you have data.
>>
>> The 50 C + at the taps is a measurement.
>
> I'm asking bout the shower head.

How much heat do you think the water will lose in 5' of pipe?

--
Cheers
Dave.