Is this drill working properly? Makita 8391
David Robinson
(but for £100 - don't know why Screwfix made that price up!)
I'm concerned the clutch (or whatever it is that lets the drive slip)
isn't quite right. On the screw driver setting, even at the _highest_
torque setting, I can stop the shaft turning just by holding the chuck
with my hand. On the drill setting, the clutch has no effect (i.e. the
drill turns unless it can't - it doesn't intentionally slip). The gap
between highest torque and no slip seems ridiculously large. I was
using one of the hex bits to drive a bolt into a wall, and it didn't
go in at all on the screw driver setting. It went in fine on the drill
setting, but then nearly broke something at the end.
On both my previous drills, the top setting was far far stronger. On a
cordless I borrowed there was still a slightly annoying gap between
the top setting and the "drill" setting - but nothing like this! On my
old mains drill, the range was continuous, which was ideal.
Is this new drill faulty, or is it a design fault, or is it just crap?
It's possible, when changing gears or direction, to get the clutch
stuck "open", but that's not what I'm talking about here. Even when it
seems to be engaged, it doesn't seem to be as strong as I'd like.
The batteries don't seem to be that great. I posted a thread on here a
few weeks back asking about cordless vs mains. As I drilled a 15mm bit
through stone at the weekend, I was wishing for a mains drill - the
cordless got through in the end, but it was so slow and kept stopping
completely when the bit caught. (There wasn't quite room for my SDS).
I thought the batteries were getting flat, but swapping to a freshly
charged one only improved things for a few seconds.
Cheers,
David.
Jim K
wrote:
> I bought this drill...
>
> http://www.screwfix.com/prods/83834/Power-Tools/Cordless-Drills/Makit...
suspect a 15mm masonry bit was pushing the envelope for a 18v
combi !!!
similarly re torque settings - remember they are designed for screwing
*screws* without snapping them - your hex head bolt sounds somewhat
more "torque hungry" than a woodscrew?;>)
You could try it with a mains drill - and prepare yourself for the
snapping sensation and the fun of extracting the broken bolt out so
you can have another go....
perhaps lower your expectations a bit for £100 & battery power?
Jim K
Mathew Newton
wrote:
> I'm concerned the clutch (or whatever it is that lets the drive slip)
> isn't quite right. On the screw driver setting, even at the _highest_
> torque setting, I can stop the shaft turning just by holding the chuck
> with my hand.
It certainly doesn't sound right. On my Bosch 24v cordless, of similar
price, there's no way you could slip the clutch with your hand on the
highest setting.
That probably doesn't help you directly but it may add some support
for your expectations not being unreasonable.
Mathew
js.b1
> On the screw driver setting, even at the _highest_ torque
> setting, I can stop the shaft turning just by holding the
> chuck with my hand.
That is broken or at least not good enough, or you may have it on the
highest speed which allows momentum to build to overrun the clutch.
For screwdriving you should use speed #1 (at least for plasterboard,
cement board, rubbishy pine).
I have a Makita 14.4V 6337D.
I actually bought the body (£32), NiMH battery (£40), multi-charger
(£19) as odds-n-sods on Ebay as I disposed of other stuff. It is a
Marathon motor drill which does mean it has very torque, and uses NiMH
(or NiCad) batteries. It is a 2-speed drill and not a combi drill like
the MXT Combi which is about £45-55 for the body even on Ebay (and
heavier).
Set to screws, gearbox speed 1.
With clutch set to 5 it can be stopped with a firm grip, albeit giving
your wrist a good snatch.
With clutch set to 16 you can forget stopping it, it will actually
break your wrist before you can get the trigger fully down.
The downside is under part-speed, very high resistance, the speed
control can smoke and fail. I suspect that may be the run-in NiMH
battery. So I have a "no speed control" for brickwork and a "do not
abuse" for precise (cough!) woodwork. Makita would not entertain the
warranty because I had bought on Ebay, no point shipping it around and
just bought a replacement 6337D body for £27 delivered in the
recession.
Now, when I tried 12V non-marathon & 14.4V non-marathon with NiCad I
did find them weedy - even compared to an old 9.6V NiCad which I
suspect re 1998-2000 had a "marathon motor or its equivalent back
them".
Batteries do take time to run-in and achieve a full charge, but I find
1.3Ah is that bit too small - 1.5Ah is noticeably better in that you
can actually finish a job without finding the thing grinds to a halt.
On the NiMH you have almost consistent fresh-charge power until the
last 20secs, it really is that good. The downside is the self
discharge is pretty dire.
If you do not need a Combi, buy a non-Combi cordless with occasional
masonry (Bosch Multiconstruction bit) and a proper mains SDS for
masonry because nothing matches it except the expensive cordless SDS
drills (£200+).
nicknoxx
I've one two of these
http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/scripts/details.php?cat=Cordless%20Drill%20%2F%20Drivers%2018V%20Makita&product=36503
and there's no way you can stop the chuck turning when the torque
setting is set to maximum.
Colonel Edmund J. Burke
news:30eea98a-ccc9-4d5f...@j1g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
I bought this drill...and used it to screw in my new butt plug.
David Robinson
> David wrote...
> > On the screw driver setting, even at the _highest_ torque
> > setting, I can stop the shaft turning just by holding the
> > chuck with my hand.
>
> That is broken or at least not good enough, or you may have it on the
> highest speed which allows momentum to build to overrun the clutch.
> For screwdriving you should use speed #1 (at least for plasterboard,
> cement board, rubbishy pine).
Yes, it was on 1. It didn't make much difference (except when the
clutch didn't engage at all and it slipped completely).
> I have a Makita 14.4V 6337D.
> I actually bought the body (£32), NiMH battery (£40), multi-charger
> (£19) as odds-n-sods on Ebay as I disposed of other stuff. It is a
> Marathon motor drill which does mean it has very torque, and uses NiMH
> (or NiCad) batteries. It is a 2-speed drill and not a combi drill like
> the MXT Combi which is about £45-55 for the body even on Ebay (and
> heavier).
>
> Set to screws, gearbox speed 1.
> With clutch set to 5 it can be stopped with a firm grip, albeit giving
> your wrist a good snatch.
> With clutch set to 16 you can forget stopping it, it will actually
> break your wrist before you can get the trigger fully down.
This is what I would expect!
I just phoned Makita to ask. The guy in the service department claimed
that he could stop all their tools with his hand in screwdriver mode -
it's just that some took more effort than others. ????
He asked what I was trying to do. I said 3" No. 10 screws into 4x2
(which I've tried, and it gives up). He said drill a proper pilot
hole.
He pointed out that this only has 40Nm of torque, while the better
model has 80Nm. But this is torque in drill mode - he couldn't say if
it made any difference to the max torque in screw driver mode. He
seemed to think I was a bit mad switching to drill mode to finish off
the screw driving - me too, but I've rarely needed to before!
I was thinking that maybe I'd keep the cordless as a glorified screw
driver, and get a mains drill for heavier jobs - but this one doesn't
work as a glorified screw driver, so I think it's going to have to go
back. :-(
btw, I really liked the keyless chuck. Far more convenient than any
keyed chuck I've had, and it didn't slip - whereas a keyed chuck did
in the same circumstances (though due to the lack of power the keyless
didn't get thrashed as much, so it's not a totally fair comparison).
> If you do not need a Combi, buy a non-Combi cordless with occasional
> masonry (Bosch Multiconstruction bit) and a proper mains SDS for
> masonry because nothing matches it except the expensive cordless SDS
> drills (£200+).
I think you're right - though there are times when a normal hammer
drill seems like the right thing to use and SDS seems like overkill.
Cheers,
David.
newshound
>
> I've one two of these
> http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/scripts/details.php?cat=Cordless%20Drill%20%2F%20Drivers%2018V%20Makita&product=36503
> and there's no way you can stop the chuck turning when the torque setting
> is set to maximum.
Never realised Makita was made in the UK until I saw that ad....
Steve Walker
> On Nov 22, 2:44 pm, "js.b1" <js...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> With clutch set to 16 you can forget stopping it, it will actually
>> break your wrist before you can get the trigger fully down.
>
> This is what I would expect!
>
> I just phoned Makita to ask. The guy in the service department
> claimed that he could stop all their tools with his hand in
> screwdriver mode - it's just that some took more effort than
> others.
Send it back, it's broken.
The Medway Handyman
My 14.4v Makita couldn't be stopped on the highest torque setting - no way -
unless the battery is flat.
Are you sure the batteries are charged properly? Sometimes with Makita
chargers, if you insert a flatish battery the green light remains on & it
won't charge. Unplug charger, remove battery, plug back in, insert battery
& check the red light comes on.
--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
John Rumm
> I bought this drill...
>
> http://www.screwfix.com/prods/83834/Power-Tools/Cordless-Drills/Makita-8391DWPETK-18V-Combi-Drill-101-Piece-Accessory-Kit
>
> (but for £100 - don't know why Screwfix made that price up!)
>
>
>
> I'm concerned the clutch (or whatever it is that lets the drive slip)
> isn't quite right. On the screw driver setting, even at the _highest_
> torque setting, I can stop the shaft turning just by holding the chuck
> with my hand. On the drill setting, the clutch has no effect (i.e. the
Never thought to actually try this, but I just did on my Makita 8443D,
and yes I can stop it on setting 16. Its got a fairly strong tug though
at that setting. I would guess a 2" 10 gauge twinthread screw into
softwood without a pilot hole would be about the limit of the clutch on
the highest setting.
> drill turns unless it can't - it doesn't intentionally slip). The gap
Nope, in drill or hammer mode it will twist your wrist off instead!
> between highest torque and no slip seems ridiculously large. I was
> using one of the hex bits to drive a bolt into a wall, and it didn't
> go in at all on the screw driver setting. It went in fine on the drill
> setting, but then nearly broke something at the end.
>
> On both my previous drills, the top setting was far far stronger. On a
> cordless I borrowed there was still a slightly annoying gap between
> the top setting and the "drill" setting - but nothing like this! On my
> old mains drill, the range was continuous, which was ideal.
Without trying yours its hard to say. What is the longest screw you can
drive on the max torque setting?
(note the clutch is really only there to protect smaller screws)
> The batteries don't seem to be that great. I posted a thread on here a
> few weeks back asking about cordless vs mains. As I drilled a 15mm bit
> through stone at the weekend, I was wishing for a mains drill - the
> cordless got through in the end, but it was so slow and kept stopping
> completely when the bit caught. (There wasn't quite room for my SDS).
> I thought the batteries were getting flat, but swapping to a freshly
> charged one only improved things for a few seconds.
If you are pushing the envelope a bit, then the Makitas with their
Maraton motor tend to punch somewhat harder. The 1.3Ah batts will need
fairly frequent charging, but ought to still give decent performance.
--
Cheers,
John.
/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/
John Rumm
> On Nov 22, 2:44 pm, "js.b1"<js...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> Set to screws, gearbox speed 1.
>> With clutch set to 5 it can be stopped with a firm grip, albeit giving
>> your wrist a good snatch.
>> With clutch set to 16 you can forget stopping it, it will actually
>> break your wrist before you can get the trigger fully down.
>
> This is what I would expect!
>
> I just phoned Makita to ask. The guy in the service department claimed
> that he could stop all their tools with his hand in screwdriver mode -
> it's just that some took more effort than others. ????
Well having just managed it on the top of the range (as was) 18V
marathon motor combi, I would expect he is right.
(if you think about how much torque you could apply with a screwdriver
with a handle the size of the chuck on your drill, its going to be
fairly substantial. So I would be surprised if you couldn't get pretty
much any screwdriving clutch to slip (although don't try on a core drill
clutch!))
> He asked what I was trying to do. I said 3" No. 10 screws into 4x2
> (which I've tried, and it gives up). He said drill a proper pilot
> hole.
I don't think mine would drive that on the clutch either. I would use
drill mode to start with on large fastenings like that. (or more likely
my impact driver these days)
> He pointed out that this only has 40Nm of torque, while the better
> model has 80Nm. But this is torque in drill mode - he couldn't say if
> it made any difference to the max torque in screw driver mode. He
Well it won't - the torque is limited by the clutch...
> seemed to think I was a bit mad switching to drill mode to finish off
> the screw driving - me too, but I've rarely needed to before!
I get the feeling you might be expecting the clutch to do a slightly
different job from what its intended to do. Its main virtue IME is in
repeatable setting of smaller screws (say 1.5") to consistent depth
quickly without worrying about over driving.
> I was thinking that maybe I'd keep the cordless as a glorified screw
> driver, and get a mains drill for heavier jobs - but this one doesn't
> work as a glorified screw driver, so I think it's going to have to go
> back. :-(
If you want something just for screw driving, then an impact driver
would be another option. The 18V version will stick out over 150 Nm of
torque! Either the screw goes in or something breaks (usually the
screwdriving bit!)
> btw, I really liked the keyless chuck. Far more convenient than any
> keyed chuck I've had, and it didn't slip - whereas a keyed chuck did
> in the same circumstances (though due to the lack of power the keyless
> didn't get thrashed as much, so it's not a totally fair comparison).
>
>
>> If you do not need a Combi, buy a non-Combi cordless with occasional
>> masonry (Bosch Multiconstruction bit) and a proper mains SDS for
>> masonry because nothing matches it except the expensive cordless SDS
>> drills (£200+).
>
> I think you're right - though there are times when a normal hammer
> drill seems like the right thing to use and SDS seems like overkill.
Perhaps it depends on the jobs you do, but I find almost zero use for my
mains "hammer" drills these days. I find the combi does pretty much
everything apart from big deep holes in masonry, where the SDS comes
out. (although my combi is the 80Nm one IIRC)
The Medway Handyman
> On 22/11/2010 14:10, David Robinson wrote:
>
>> I bought this drill...
>>
>> http://www.screwfix.com/prods/83834/Power-Tools/Cordless-Drills/Makita-8391DWPETK-18V-Combi-Drill-101-Piece-Accessory-Kit
>>
>> (but for £100 - don't know why Screwfix made that price up!)
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm concerned the clutch (or whatever it is that lets the drive slip)
>> isn't quite right. On the screw driver setting, even at the _highest_
>> torque setting, I can stop the shaft turning just by holding the
>> chuck with my hand. On the drill setting, the clutch has no effect
>> (i.e. the
>
> Never thought to actually try this, but I just did on my Makita 8443D,
> and yes I can stop it on setting 16. Its got a fairly strong tug
> though at that setting. I would guess a 2" 10 gauge twinthread screw
> into softwood without a pilot hole would be about the limit of the
> clutch on the highest setting.
>
>> drill turns unless it can't - it doesn't intentionally slip). The gap
>
> Nope, in drill or hammer mode it will twist your wrist off instead!
Thinking about it, I only really use my 14.4v Mak in either drill or hammer
mode. I never really use the torque settings, the almost instant motor stop
& using the drill in 'bursts' works for me.
I also have a Makita DF010DSE Pencil Drill Driver which has 21 torque
settings where the motor actually 'stops' at the required setting. Use that
mainly for smaller screws, flat pack assembly etc. The torque settings are
so precise you can do up screws into plastic back boxes without cracking the
plastic.
David Robinson
> On 22/11/2010 17:14, David Robinson wrote:
> > I just phoned Makita to ask. The guy in the service department claimed
> > that he could stop all their tools with his hand in screwdriver mode -
> > it's just that some took more effort than others. ????
>
> Well having just managed it on the top of the range (as was) 18V
> marathon motor combi, I would expect he is right.
>
> (if you think about how much torque you could apply with a screwdriver
> with a handle the size of the chuck on your drill, its going to be
> fairly substantial. So I would be surprised if you couldn't get pretty
> much any screwdriving clutch to slip (although don't try on a core drill
> clutch!))
It's interesting the different answers I've got on this in the thread.
I suppose it depends on your grip, whether you wear gloves, and the
friction on the surface of the chuck. And, of course, the clutch
itself.
I'll try some different sized screws straight into some 4x2 with no
pilot hole. Usually I'd use a pilot hole (but not for the full length
of the screw). The feeling I get is that I have higher torque settings
on the old Focus(!) no-name combi I've borrowed - which seem
ridiculous, except, as you say, maybe I've been mis-using it...
> I get the feeling you might be expecting the clutch to do a slightly
> different job from what its intended to do. Its main virtue IME is in
> repeatable setting of smaller screws (say 1.5") to consistent depth
> quickly without worrying about over driving.
> If you want something just for screw driving, then an impact driver
> would be another option. The 18V version will stick out over 150 Nm of
> torque! Either the screw goes in or something breaks (usually the
> screwdriving bit!)
I guess that would get 3" screws in no problem?
The trick I used with the Focus drill was to do them all on max torque
setting, which got them all but the last 3-5mm in, and then go back
using the drill setting when the battery was getting a bit flat. They
went all the way in and then the motor stopped with breaking anything.
Obviously the right tool would have been better!
> Perhaps it depends on the jobs you do, but I find almost zero use for my
> mains "hammer" drills these days. I find the combi does pretty much
> everything apart from big deep holes in masonry, where the SDS comes
> out. (although my combi is the 80Nm one IIRC)
Yep, that's my dilemma - keep this one and resort to the SDS sooner,
get something like this pair...
http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/scripts/details.php?cat=Cordless%20Drill%20/%20Drivers%2010.8V&product=94367
...and maybe a mains drill, or get one of the far better (and
expensive) ones like yours...
http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/scripts/details.php?cat=Cordless%20Drill%20/%20Drivers%2018V%20Makita&product=36503
To think this time last year I was happy with my 20 year old Black and
Decker mains drill. That was before I had an SDS and borrowed a
cordless. Now I realise the old adage "a bad workman blames his tools"
is crap - while a good workman can probably do the job with almost
anything, decent tools make a job 10x easier and sometimes 50x
quicker!
Cheers,
David.
John Rumm
> On Nov 22, 10:59 pm, John Rumm<see.my.signat...@nowhere.null> wrote:
>> On 22/11/2010 17:14, David Robinson wrote:
>
>>> I just phoned Makita to ask. The guy in the service department claimed
>>> that he could stop all their tools with his hand in screwdriver mode -
>>> it's just that some took more effort than others. ????
>>
>> Well having just managed it on the top of the range (as was) 18V
>> marathon motor combi, I would expect he is right.
>>
>> (if you think about how much torque you could apply with a screwdriver
>> with a handle the size of the chuck on your drill, its going to be
>> fairly substantial. So I would be surprised if you couldn't get pretty
>> much any screwdriving clutch to slip (although don't try on a core drill
>> clutch!))
>
> It's interesting the different answers I've got on this in the thread.
> I suppose it depends on your grip, whether you wear gloves, and the
> friction on the surface of the chuck. And, of course, the clutch
> itself.
Yup. on mine I can hold it with bare hands, but would not do it as an
exercise in comfort IYSWIM. I am sure other clutches are "different",
but would not class one that lets go later as necessarily better.
To my mind, what sets aside a good clutch is repeatability. One that can
deliver the same torque each time.
> I'll try some different sized screws straight into some 4x2 with no
> pilot hole. Usually I'd use a pilot hole (but not for the full length
> of the screw). The feeling I get is that I have higher torque settings
> on the old Focus(!) no-name combi I've borrowed - which seem
> ridiculous, except, as you say, maybe I've been mis-using it...
Not misusing as such - but using in a circumstance where you don't
really need a clutch. You are unlikely to overdrive a big heavy screw -
especially if your drill has a decent speed controller.
Perhaps that point is worth keeping in mind. Budget cordless tools tend
to often have poor batts and speed controllers, that usually means you
can't drive a stiff fastening on anything other than full speed since
you won't get the torque. The better ones can usually develop enough
torque at lower speeds to do the job - hence you can use the speed
control with more finesse for setting the screw depth. Lots of folks it
seem almost ignore the speed control and go for "pulsed" full speed to
modulate the output - something you need to do on the poorer stuff, but
is not so necessary on better tools where you can "slow down" when you
get close to finishing (although if the pulsed technique works for you
then no reason not to carry on!).
>> I get the feeling you might be expecting the clutch to do a slightly
>> different job from what its intended to do. Its main virtue IME is in
>> repeatable setting of smaller screws (say 1.5") to consistent depth
>> quickly without worrying about over driving.
>> If you want something just for screw driving, then an impact driver
>> would be another option. The 18V version will stick out over 150 Nm of
>> torque! Either the screw goes in or something breaks (usually the
>> screwdriving bit!)
>
> I guess that would get 3" screws in no problem?
Yup, but then so will your combi by the sounds of it - just not with the
clutch engaged.
Impact drivers have no clutch anyway and are somewhat more brutal than a
constant torque drill. They will carry on winding a 3" screw into
softwood until the bit won't reach the screw head anymore! For preceise
depth setting on screws you need to get very good at letting go of the
trigger at the right time, or use the speed control to tap it home.
The particular attraction is they take less physical effort to use. You
don't need the same pressure on the drill to prevent cam out, and the
machines are smaller and lighter for a given voltage.
More on them here:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Impact_driver
> The trick I used with the Focus drill was to do them all on max torque
> setting, which got them all but the last 3-5mm in, and then go back
> using the drill setting when the battery was getting a bit flat. They
> went all the way in and then the motor stopped with breaking anything.
> Obviously the right tool would have been better!
That just sounds like you were making unnecessary work for yourself. No
point using the clutch at all if it not going to get the job completed
and you need to change modes into the mode that you could have started
off in the first place and finished the job in one hit. ;-)
>> Perhaps it depends on the jobs you do, but I find almost zero use for my
>> mains "hammer" drills these days. I find the combi does pretty much
>> everything apart from big deep holes in masonry, where the SDS comes
>> out. (although my combi is the 80Nm one IIRC)
>
> Yep, that's my dilemma - keep this one and resort to the SDS sooner,
> get something like this pair...
Yup, I am tempted by those myself - although not as a replacement of my
current ones but an addition. I can see they would be very nice for many
of the lighter jobs about the house. The ID can produce 90Nm of torque
apparently. The DD come in with only something like 27 IIRC. Which I
suppose is not surprising with the lower voltage.
(to an extent, the more different sized drills/drivers etc you have -
the more specialised each becomes!)
> ...and maybe a mains drill, or get one of the far better (and
> expensive) ones like yours...
> http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/scripts/details.php?cat=Cordless%20Drill%20/%20Drivers%2018V%20Makita&product=36503
Yup, that's the "next years model" on from mine. It has three speeds
rather than 2. I know someone with the 14.4V version of that. The
addition of the lower gear adds even more maximum torque (mine is 2
speed 0 - 450 and 0 - 1400, the MXT has a 0 - 300 low gear). Might be
worth seeing how much you can get one "body only" and use your existing
batts if you are really keen to change.
It also sounds like it would be handy for you to try various different
versions before doing much else to find one that handles the way you
want. Don't know if you live near enough anyone here to go have a play?
> To think this time last year I was happy with my 20 year old Black and
> Decker mains drill. That was before I had an SDS and borrowed a
> cordless. Now I realise the old adage "a bad workman blames his tools"
> is crap - while a good workman can probably do the job with almost
> anything, decent tools make a job 10x easier and sometimes 50x
> quicker!
Yup... as a retired builder friend of mine says - anyone can do it with
the tools! (I have seen him produce the required bit of missing skirting
moulding from an offcut of softwood, using a jack saw, claw hammer, and
sandpaper!)
David Robinson
> Never thought to actually try this, but I just did on myMakita8443D,
> and yes I can stop it on setting 16. Its got a fairly strong tug though
> at that setting. I would guess a 2" 10 gauge twinthread screw into
> softwood without a pilot hole would be about the limit of theclutchon
> the highest setting.
Funny you should say that. Today I was using 10g 2.5" single thread
into floorboards with a pilot hole, and at the top setting, when the
screw hit the last cm (i.e. the bit where the pilot hole ended) the
clutch slipped.
I swapped back to the focus DIY model, and at setting 19 (out of 21)
it did the job perfectly. Screws all the way in, without jumping or
snapping, every time.
I wasn't sure before, but now I am: This thing's got to go back!!!
Cheers,
David.
Jim K
wrote:
can;t you just learn to use the drill setting, on low speed and judge
it manually?
Expecting any tool (never mind powertools) to operate "the same" as
others is asking a little much IMHO
Does your supplier operate a "no quibble" returns policy? if not have
you thought how you are going to justify your return?
Jim K
John Rumm
Yup to be fair it does not sound as if the OPs clutch performs that
differently from the one on mine, and I feel the one on mine works very
well. I may be wrong, but I think this is just a difference of
expectation. Personally I would only want to use the clutch for smaller
fixings where overdriving is a real possibility and you want quick
repeatability. A good example might be sticking loads of 1.25" screws
into 9mm ply as a floorboard covering prior to tiling etc. For a 2"
screw or above I can't really see any value.
David Robinson
> On 06/12/2010 21:13, Jim K wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Dec 6, 8:39 pm, David Robinson<davidrobin...@postmaster.co.uk>
> > wrote:
> >> On Nov 22, 10:06 pm, John Rumm<see.my.signat...@nowhere.null> wrote:
>
> >>> Never thought to actually try this, but I just did on myMakita8443D,
> >>> and yes I can stop it on setting 16. Its got a fairly strong tug though
> >>> at that setting. I would guess a 2" 10 gauge twinthread screw into
> >>> softwood without a pilot hole would be about the limit of theclutchon
> >>> the highest setting.
>
> >> Funny you should say that. Today I was using 10g 2.5" single thread
> >> into floorboards with a pilot hole, and at the top setting, when the
> >> screw hit the last cm (i.e. the bit where the pilot hole ended) the
> >>clutchslipped.
>
> >> I swapped back to the focus DIY model, and at setting 19 (out of 21)
> >> it did the job perfectly. Screws all the way in, without jumping or
> >> snapping, every time.
>
> >> I wasn't sure before, but now I am: This thing's got to go back!!!
>
> > it manually?
>
> > Expecting any tool (never mind powertools) to operate "the same" as
> > others is asking a little much IMHO
>
> > Does your supplier operate a "no quibble" returns policy? if not have
> > you thought how you are going to justify your return?
>
> differently from the one on mine, and I feel the one on mine works very
> well. I may be wrong, but I think this is just a difference of
> fixings where overdriving is a real possibility and you want quick
> repeatability. A good example might be sticking loads of 1.25" screws
> into 9mm ply as a floorboard covering prior to tiling etc. For a 2"
> screw or above I can't really see any value.
John,
I've seen enough of your posts on here to realise that you're almost
certainly right! :-(
With the 12g 4" screws, I was using the drill setting and proceeding
slowly and carefully, because I've always found that to be beyond the
ability of a clutch (sensibly so!).
However, whether I've been spoilt or lucky with these two other drills
or not, there was certainly "value" in switching back to the focus DIY
cheapie yesterday for driving those 2.5" screws - it made the job 5x
faster (no need to be careful, or even to think!), and 5x better (not
a single screw head damaged). A faster and better job - the very
definition of quick repeatability.
Now that I recognise that what I'm expecting may be a little
unusual(!), I think I'll have to resort to try-before-I-buy for the
replacement.
Cheers,
David.
PeterC
I recalled this thread t'other day when I was using a 12V Makita drill. The
job was re-laying chipboard flooring in the loft, starting the screw
manually to pick up the existing thread in the chipboard and, with care, the
thread in the joist. One or two missed the hole in the joist but the drill
still drove them in.
The screws are ordinary Goldscrew, 60mmx5mm, so quite big for a 12V drill.
For just driving them into the same holes, setting was 14; 16 managed the
new thread.
Does look as if yours isn't up to spec. - or I need to complain about mine!
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway
John Rumm
With a screw that size I would not really be worrying about "slowly ans
sensibly" - flat out into the end stop, and let go of the trigger as the
screw head hits the wood. Allowing the drill body to twist a little in
the hand to soak up any over drive.
> However, whether I've been spoilt or lucky with these two other drills
> or not, there was certainly "value" in switching back to the focus DIY
> cheapie yesterday for driving those 2.5" screws - it made the job 5x
> faster (no need to be careful, or even to think!), and 5x better (not
> a single screw head damaged). A faster and better job - the very
> definition of quick repeatability.
Interesting observation - I have never really thought of the clutch as
instrumental to preventing screw head damage - on larger screws
anyway... the key IME has been finding screw driving bit and screw
combinations that fit really well. If I suffer head damaging cam out,
then its usually long before that "last little bit" of the screw
tightening.
> Now that I recognise that what I'm expecting may be a little
> unusual(!), I think I'll have to resort to try-before-I-buy for the
> replacement.
Indeed. You may even find you need to look at things like the more
exotic Festool drill drivers to get the level of clutch control you
want. Got an Axminster showroom anywhere near? ;-)
There is probably some value in taking yours to a Makita service centre
and asking them to confirm if its working as they would expect, just to
make sure.
I must confess I am not sure why you are having difficulty on larger
screws without the clutch - this may be a reflection of the fact I am
used to the beefy marathon motor version of your drill that can deliver
substantial torque even at 20 rpm and hence have got used to better
control of the drill speed, or it may be that I am driving larger screws
in circumstances where I do not care as much about exact depth setting -
i.e. first fix joinery where screws countersunk flush, or 2mm beneath
the surface are equally acceptable. It is possible though that there is
some differences in operator technique. Difficult to assess from here!
A point also worth noting is that for larger screws I tend to use my
impact driver more these days since it requires less effort to work with
(no need to push as hard to prevent cam out, and the machine itself is a
bit lighter). Having said that, I have driven many thousands of screws
with my combi as well - most of which were probably driven in drill mode.