Pilot lights keep going out (Worcester)
Nick
under contract with B Gas. Recently it started blowing pilot out.
What happens is that if you turn on the hot water (tap or hot water)
its works ok for about 5 mins and then there is a clicking noise and
pilot and flames blow out. I then have to light the pilot by firing
the button 5-7 times. It will work again for about 4-5 mins and same
happens again - clicking noise, flames/pilot go out. This happens
consistently on hot water. If we use the central heating then it may
blow out 1 or 2 times in evening.
I have called out Bgas 3 times and they have not been able to fix it.
They have changed a thermostat and then a sensor but without luck.
They are now saying that the boiler is too old and needs replacing.
And CH also needs a power flush to get rid of debris. They say there
is no other remedy.
Now if there was debris that was causing the tripping then I would
expect this to happen more on the CH side rather then the hot water. I
would also expect the tripping to be random rather than consistent.
I am totally unhappy with B Gas being unable to find the fault and
telling me to replace boiler. Yes the boiler is old but it has had
about 60-70% of the components replaced in the last 2-3 years. I am
paying them 16.75GBP per month and I think they are not putting in the
effort to find the real fault.
One of the things I have noticed is that when we used the hot water
before, it used to get really hot after 4-5 mins and it used to go
into a rest mode and started up again after a minute or so. Its not
doing that - it just trips now. I told that to the B Gas engineer and
he repleced the sensor but it has not made any difference. Is it
possible that the internal is not receiving enough air (fan maybe
faulty)?
I think there must be another reason for all this other than the
debris.
Can you please give me some advice/pointers as I am going to call out
B Gas for the last time.
John Stumbles
> I have a Worcester combi boiler which is about 11 years old. It is
> under contract with B Gas. Recently it started blowing pilot out.
...
> One of the things I have noticed is that when we used the hot water
> before, it used to get really hot after 4-5 mins and it used to go
> into a rest mode and started up again after a minute or so. Its not
> doing that - it just trips now. I told that to the B Gas engineer and
> he repleced the sensor but it has not made any difference. Is it
> possible that the internal is not receiving enough air (fan maybe
> faulty)?
I don't know this model of boiler but I'd suspect that the boiler may have
an overheat cutout which cuts out the pilot. If so I'd be looking at
either the sensor (too sensitive) or the circulation: pump, sludge in
system etc.
--
John Stumbles
Women always generalise
Dave Baker
"Nick" <are...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fc2d5c80-19a8-4757...@e4g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
Assuming it has one and I'm going by similar symptoms on another boiler it
sounds like the DHW flow switch sticking and causing an overheat condition
when hot water is called for. Should be a simple matter of changing this
switch.
--
Dave Baker
Puma Race Engines
Andy Cap
>I have called out Bgas 3 times and they have not been able to fix it.
>They have changed a thermostat and then a sensor but without luck.
Should read without necessary skill or genuine intent. It's insane that they
consider a 12 year old boiler finished - no, more accurately, criminal. Scrap
the BG contract and get a decent heating engineer to look at it and in the
unlikely event it needs replacing. it'll cost you about 2/3 of the BG price.
Andy
Stuart Noble
One wonders how realistic it is to expect BG engineers to know the ins
and outs of every model of boiler. Still, they've taken on the risk, and
must find the solution. I'd be inclined to get written confirmation
from WB that spares are available for that model and pass that on to
whoever's in charge at BG (if anyone). It really isn't good enough to
take the money and then only want to fix the easy bits.
gazzafield
Get them to check the pressure in your gas supply pipe. I, and the
neighbour downstairs had a very similar problem a while back. Workmen had
severed a gas pipe in the street and Transco had come out to "fix it".
The pipe was left with what looked liked some sort of wadding around it and
taped up still exposed in the hole. It was also still leaking gas as
everyone could smell it. I must also add that the workmen had -
illegally - turned the gas off at an underground tap outside my house, then
later turned it on. No doubt so no one from Transco would know they had
done it.
Anyway, two chaps turned up to fix the fault with the pipe the next morning.
When they did my boiler would fire up to heat the water or central heating
and run for thirty seconds or so and shut down. The pilot light went out
(and it would shut down) when the oven was put on. This happened several
times in the morning. I decided that the gas supply to the boiler was too
low (and I'm no engineer) and went out and suggested as much to the two
chaps outside.
They reckoned my boiler was knackered. At this point my neighbour asked if
I was having problems as her pilot light kept going out. Another BG van
then trundled up to another neighbour a couple of doors away. We decided
to go out as the house was cold and we had no hot water.
The upshot was that the guys were still there when we got back at 7 that
night. They needed access to our flat to sort the last piece at the gas
meter. They had dug up the garden in three places and replaced pipes,
removed taps and all sorts of things as it turns oout there was next to no
pressure in our gas pipe. And all for nothing too.
Mathew Newton
wrote:
>
WB told me they intend to supply spares for their boilers for 10 years
following the last production date.
To the OP, what model boiler is it?
Mathew
adder1969
Might be that they've replaced the sensor and it still overheats and
they suspect it's because the heat exchanger has furred up meaning
there's not much throughput of water. If the main thermostat has
failed then this will also lead to an overheat situation and the
overheat stat does (and should) cut the circuit.
Ed Sirett
> On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 05:27:01 -0800 (PST), Nick <are...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>I have called out Bgas 3 times and they have not been able to fix it.
>>They have changed a thermostat and then a sensor but without luck.
>
> Should read without necessary skill or genuine intent. It's insane that
> they consider a 12 year old boiler finished -
Agreed it insane they consider a 12 y.o. Worcester boiler finished.
A Pott. Puma or Biasi/Alpha/Vokera well may be.
--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
John Stumbles
> Agreed it insane they consider a 12 y.o. Worcester boiler finished.
> A Pott. Puma or Biasi/Alpha/Vokera well may be.
^^^^^
Careful - you'll rattle you-know-who's cage! :-)
--
John Stumbles
Andy Cap
wrote:
>On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 13:57:23 +0000, Andy Cap wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 05:27:01 -0800 (PST), Nick <are...@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I have called out Bgas 3 times and they have not been able to fix it.
>>>They have changed a thermostat and then a sensor but without luck.
>>
>> Should read without necessary skill or genuine intent. It's insane that
>> they consider a 12 year old boiler finished -
>
>Agreed it insane they consider a 12 y.o. Worcester boiler finished.
>A Pott. Puma or Biasi/Alpha/Vokera well may be.
Boilers shouldn't even be allowed into the market place, without a 25 year life
expectancy and spares backup. They should be put in the same category as
long-life bulbs.
It's intolerable, how the industry has been allowed to undermine people's
expectations, frequently relying on their natural ignorance, because the word
"gas" naturally instills fear and they take full advantage.
Someone here a few months ago, said that their boiler WAS 8 years old and so
should he be looking to replace it ! Such wastefulness negates any saving in
energy, that technology is purported to deliver.
Andy
Nick
need a certificate of efficiency from Corgi and a planning certificate
from your local council (can be issued by a qualified installer).
Without these two documents you will not be able to sell your house.
Is this correct?
Any questions I should be asking the B Gas engineer when I call them
out again (for the last time before I ditch them)?
Andy Cap
>And now they have made it even more difficult!!!! I hear that you now
>need a certificate of efficiency from Corgi and a planning certificate
>from your local council (can be issued by a qualified installer).
>Without these two documents you will not be able to sell your house.
>Is this correct?
I really can't see most people turning down a property they want, for the cost
of replacing a boiler when most gut the place anyway, to put their own stamp on
the house. Anyway, what would happen to all these knackered houses that get sold
through auction ? Some are in appalling state but they all have to be renovated
by someone. Apparently many purchaser are not bothering with HIPS already.
>Any questions I should be asking the B Gas engineer when I call them
>out again (for the last time before I ditch them)?
I like Start Noble's suggestion of asking Worcester if spares are still
available. Or you could ask these if they are available, though they probably
wont supply you. Though I did get a replacement cap for mine.
http://www.onlineboilerspares.com/
http://www.mjtcontrols.co.uk/
These might give you an idea of possible prices for replacments. I'm sure there
are others. I've just kept a note of these in the past.
http://www.diyboilers.com/
http://www.discountheating.com/
Andy
Ed Sirett
Agreed, that's why IMHO it's important to get a good boiler to begin
with, and fit it properly.
Ed Sirett
The only suppliers at the moment who are not so obliging are "Parts
Centre" (part of the Plumb/Build/Drain Centere chain which is the
Wolseley group. They are starting a spares-only-to-card-carrying-pros
initiative. "No card, no parts, no excuses!".
Nick
cannot diagnose the problem. With all the backup infrastructure,
laptops etc surely they should be able to work out whats going on here.
Andy Cap
True but the point was to have an answer to BG's assertion that parts weren't
available, when invariably they are.
Andy
John Stumbles
> The only suppliers at the moment who are not so obliging are "Parts
> Centre" (part of the Plumb/Build/Drain Centere chain which is the
> Wolseley group. They are starting a spares-only-to-card-carrying-pros
> initiative. "No card, no parts, no excuses!".
though the only card they've asked me to show them is the one I pay for
stuff with :-)
--
John Stumbles
Nick
said that it was the heat exchanger which was blocked up because of
muck in the CH system. He said that BGas would not repair it as it was
due to dirt in the sytem which should have bee flushed out and they
cant replace it anywahy because the part is not availanle anymore.
He said my only option was to get them flush the system (600GBP) and
then have heat exchanger repaired by them at 70GBP/HR. Alternative was
to get a new boiler fitted by them for 3500GBP. He also said that I
was so lucky that I got 12 years of this boiler; they dont last that
long. I told him where to go.
I am totally naffed by all this. BGas have been 'servicing' this
boiler for the last 4-5 years and they have this annual service (if
you can call it that - engineer looking at the boiler with a torch for
5 mins). They never told me that I needed a flush and now that the
heat exchanger is gone, they say that its not covered because the
system should have been flushed. A bit cop-out for them if you ask me.
What diabolical service!
Ed Sirett
I'm not sure that I trust them with their assertion "the heat X is
blocked"?
This is a combi, so presumably a sealed CH system. Seeing as it's already
done 12 years there could not have been too much wrong with it. Unless
you have been topping up frequently (like more than once a week for a
year or two) there is not much chance of sludge.
Time for you to either fix it yourself or find out from your nieghbours/
colleagues/friends who they know who can fix it.
bart...@googlemail.com
We noticed this problem when we returned from Holiday where we also noticed our living flame gas fire wouldn't light - it was if both appliances were starved of gas!
Any help would be appreciated as I suspect the next call out will be the last!
Harry Bloomfield
> out on our WB 400 highflow after 30mins to 1 hour. I have had BGAS out 3
> times and they have replaced the various sensors and are now looking at
> replacing the pump, which does feel very hot!?
>
> We noticed this problem when we returned from Holiday where we also noticed
> our living flame gas fire wouldn't light - it was if both appliances were
> starved of gas!
>
> Any help would be appreciated as I suspect the next call out will be the
> last!
to be a fairly modern boiler and modern boilers don't have pilot lights
consuming gas when off. They use electronic ignition to ignite the
burners as needed.
Harry Bloomfield
> out on our WB 400 highflow after 30mins to 1 hour. I have had BGAS out 3
> times and they have replaced the various sensors and are now looking at
> replacing the pump, which does feel very hot!?
diagnose the real real issue, if they are lucky.
John Rumm
> I have a similar problem where for some reason our pilot light keeps going out on our WB 400 highflow after 30mins to 1 hour. I have had BGAS out 3 times and they have replaced the various sensors and are now looking at replacing the pump, which does feel very hot!?
>
> We noticed this problem when we returned from Holiday where we also noticed our living flame gas fire wouldn't light - it was if both appliances were starved of gas!
load would seem like a good starting point. If your supply pressure is
too low, then there is not much you can do at the appliance end to fix it.
--
Cheers,
John.
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G r o g
experts were all gloom and doom so we called in a local plumber. He
reckoned the pipe to (or from) the exhaust was blocked. He took the
pipe out, flushed it through, re-fitted it and bingo - no more problems.
Worked fine ever since.
Brian Gaff
Brian
<bart...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:18fd2ad0-8416-47bc...@googlegroups.com...
Cynic
John Rumm
> This thread started years ago