Fence post- bitumen on lower end?

[Jim Walsh]

Hi all.

I get a bit obsessive in trying to make sure that the end results of my DIY jobs are long-lasting (where appropriate). On the matter of wooden fence posts, is it likely to increase the life of the below ground section if I cover that portion of the wood in bitumen? I imagine that preventing soaking from ground water should do some good.

Thanks.

Jim.

[Jim K]

Jim Walsh <jimwal...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:

Its the bit where the air & soil/water meet where the rot strikes,
even treated posts succumb.

I estimate where that transition point will be when the posts will
be installed & paint posts with bitumen in a tall 12" /18"
"stripe".

--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

[Tim Lamb]

In message <s_adnbFd1uRY_b7G...@brightview.co.uk>, Jim K
<jk98...@gmail.com> writes

>Jim Walsh <jimwal...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:
>> Hi all.
>>
>> I get a bit obsessive in trying to make sure that the end results of
>>my DIY jobs are long-lasting (where appropriate). On the matter of
>>wooden fence posts, is it likely to increase the life of the below
>>ground section if I cover that portion of the wood in bitumen? I
>>imagine that preventing soaking from ground water should do some good.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Jim.
>>
>
>Its the bit where the air & soil/water meet where the rot strikes,
> even treated posts succumb.
>
>I estimate where that transition point will be when the posts will
> be installed & paint posts with bitumen in a tall 12" /18"
> "stripe".

It is possible to purchase fence posts pressure treated with creosote
from specialist suppliers.

The stretch of by-pass fencing through my farmland was completed in 1977
and is still sound (although not actually creosote and is fireproof with
a mothball smell).

Someone was marketing plastic sleeves for protecting the area where soil
bacteria/fungi are active but I've not seen any positive reports.

>
>--
>Jim K
>
>
>----Android NewsGroup Reader----
>http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

--
Tim Lamb

[Martin Brown]

On 15/06/2018 07:46, Jim K wrote:
> Jim Walsh <jimwal...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:
>> Hi all.
>>
>> I get a bit obsessive in trying to make sure that the end results
>> of my DIY jobs are long-lasting (where appropriate). On the matter
>> of wooden fence posts, is it likely to increase the life of the
>> below ground section if I cover that portion of the wood in
>> bitumen? I imagine that preventing soaking from ground water should
>> do some good.
>

> Its the bit where the air & soil/water meet where the rot strikes,
> even treated posts succumb.

+1 and I haven't found a solution.

Embedding in concrete with the top angled so that water runs away from
the wood is an improvement but also a lot more work. I have also tried a
lead cap on the top of big posts to stop freeze thaw splitting them.

> I estimate where that transition point will be when the posts will be
> installed & paint posts with bitumen in a tall 12" /18" "stripe".

Does it make a worthwhile difference? I might try that.

I generally find the deeply buried spike in perfect condition once it is
buried more than about 6" - this makes it much harder to get out.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[T i m]

On Fri, 15 Jun 2018 08:35:27 +0100, Tim Lamb
<t...@marfordfarm.demon.co.uk> wrote:

<snip>

>It is possible to purchase fence posts pressure treated with creosote
>from specialist suppliers.

Is it still 'creosote' (was it ever) when wood is 'Tanalised'?

This give a description of what looks like an 'extended' process (but
it might always have been like this):

http://tate-fencing.co.uk/about/tanalising-process/

I knew it generally use a lack of pressure (rather than 'pressure') to
draw the preservative into the timber but the above link takes it
further to potentially leave the surface of the timber 'drier'?

Seems there are quite a few different techniques ..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_preservation#Pressure_processes

I have two 6" square gateposts and one has rotted off at ground level
and the other seems to be as good as new. I've got two steel posts
ready to go back in their place and the rest of the posts are
concrete. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[charles]

In article <fohb5j...@mid.individual.net>, Huge
<Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:

> On 2018-06-15, Jim Walsh <jimwal...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi all.
> >
> > I get a bit obsessive in trying to make sure that the end results of my
> > DIY jobs are long-lasting (where appropriate). On the matter of wooden
> > fence posts, is it likely to increase the life of the below ground
> > section if I cover that portion of the wood in bitumen?

> No. Fence posts rot away at ground level. Get pressure treated ones.

Even pressure treated one rot - after about 10 years - or less. Concrete
spurs or "Metposts" keep the wood out of the ground.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

[alan_m]

On 15/06/2018 09:32, Martin Brown wrote:
> On 15/06/2018 07:46, Jim K wrote:
>> Jim Walsh <jimwal...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:
>>> Hi all.
>>>
>>> I get a bit obsessive in trying to make sure that the end results
>>> of my DIY jobs are long-lasting (where appropriate). On the matter
>>> of wooden fence posts, is it likely to increase the life of the
>>> below ground section if I cover that portion of the wood in
>>> bitumen? I imagine that preventing soaking from ground water should
>>> do some good.
>>
>> Its the bit where the air & soil/water meet where the rot strikes,
>> even treated posts succumb.
>
> +1 and I haven't found a solution.
>
> Embedding in concrete with the top angled so that water runs away from
> the wood is an improvement but also a lot more work. I have also tried a
> lead cap on the top of big posts to stop freeze thaw splitting them.

+1
The soil/air layer is where posts rot first

When I had wooden fence posts extending the concrete above the soil
level and sloping the edges for water run off extended the life
significantly.

When real creosote was readily available I used to stand the posts for a
week or so in a large bucket filled with creosote and old engine oil,
occasionally painting the mixture up the posts whist still soaking.

The bitumen method may work well. There is a company that does
impregnated bands to be fitted around the post bridging the soil/air
boundary

http://www.postsaver.com/





--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

[tabb...@gmail.com]

it does help to some extent. The bitumen should extend above ground.


NT

[Tim Lamb]

In message <foi4ob...@mid.individual.net>, Huge
<Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> writes

>On 2018-06-15, charles <cha...@candehope.me.uk> wrote:
>> In article <fohb5j...@mid.individual.net>, Huge
>><Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 2018-06-15, Jim Walsh <jimwal...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > Hi all.
>>> >
>>> > I get a bit obsessive in trying to make sure that the end results of my
>>> > DIY jobs are long-lasting (where appropriate). On the matter of wooden
>>> > fence posts, is it likely to increase the life of the below ground
>>> > section if I cover that portion of the wood in bitumen?
>>
>>> No. Fence posts rot away at ground level. Get pressure treated ones.
>>
>> Even pressure treated one rot - after about 10 years - or less.
>

>Well, the 47 y/o power poles we had replaced because of woodpecker damage
>were fine at ground level. But then, they're properly treated.

>
>> Concrete spurs or "Metposts" keep the wood out of the ground.
>

>I'd go for the former. The latter don't have enough grip on the posts.

I have an idea the utility companies may use *boron nails* as a life
extender. Lots of poles end up on farms as fencing strainer posts.
>
>

--
Tim Lamb

[harry]

I have a short bit of 100mm drain pipe with a blank on one end.
I stand the posts in creosote (equivalent) for a day.
Takes a while, I can only fit one post in at a time.

[stuart noble]

I prefer the approach where you set the post in a very weak gravel/cement (6/1?) mix. That way it's easier to yank it out and replace

[Tricky Dicky]

Another approach if you want the wooden post look at least on one side is to concrete in repair posts then attach your post clear of the ground to the repair post. It will also be easier to repair if sometime in the future it rots or snaps.

Richard

[Andrew Gabriel]

In article <foi4ob...@mid.individual.net>,

Huge <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> writes:
> On 2018-06-15, charles <cha...@candehope.me.uk> wrote:

>> In article <fohb5j...@mid.individual.net>, Huge
>><Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 2018-06-15, Jim Walsh <jimwal...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > Hi all.
>>> >
>>> > I get a bit obsessive in trying to make sure that the end results of my
>>> > DIY jobs are long-lasting (where appropriate). On the matter of wooden
>>> > fence posts, is it likely to increase the life of the below ground
>>> > section if I cover that portion of the wood in bitumen?
>>
>>> No. Fence posts rot away at ground level. Get pressure treated ones.
>>
>> Even pressure treated one rot - after about 10 years - or less.
>

> Well, the 47 y/o power poles we had replaced because of woodpecker damage
> were fine at ground level. But then, they're properly treated.
>

>> Concrete spurs or "Metposts" keep the wood out of the ground.
>

> I'd go for the former. The latter don't have enough grip on the posts.

A fence I installed over 30 years ago using the Metposts is still
fine. They were a make called Fensock which I don't think exists
anymore. They clamp the timber with a pair of nuts and bolts which
close the steal collar tightly around the post bottoms.

When I looked for something similar some years later, I couldn't
find it. I could do with some now for a different fence if anyone
knows of a source.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

[Andy Burns]

Andrew Gabriel wrote:

> A fence I installed over 30 years ago using the Metposts is still
> fine. They were a make called Fensock which I don't think exists
> anymore. They clamp the timber with a pair of nuts and bolts which
> close the steal collar tightly around the post bottoms.

I thought they all did that? I've helped the neighbour fit this type,
the thin straps bite into the posts.

<https://lawsons.co.uk/product/category/1157/metpost/f25020040>

[stuart noble]

IME the posts never fit without a lot of buggering about. This maybe?

https://www.toolstation.com/shop/Landscaping/d130/Fence+Post+Metalwork+%26+Tools/sd3224/Drive-in+Post+Anchor/p12179

[Jim K]

and...@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) Wrote in message:

http://www.burbageironcraft.co.uk/Gates/htm/p-post-supports.htm
--
--
Jim K

[harry]

You can't find them because they are called
metAposts
https://www.diy.com/departments/outdoor-garden/garden-fence-panels-gates/fence-post-support/DIY585883.cat

[Bob Eager]

On Sat, 16 Jun 2018 10:42:17 -0700, harry wrote:

> You can't find them because they are called metAposts
> https://www.diy.com/departments/outdoor-garden/garden-fence-panels-
gates/fence-post-support/DIY585883.cat

Wrong once more, harry.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

[Andrew Gabriel]

In article <293f8f69-1682-465d...@googlegroups.com>,

stuart noble <stuart.d...@gmail.com> writes:
> On Saturday, June 16, 2018 at 3:03:27 PM UTC+1, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
>> A fence I installed over 30 years ago using the Metposts is still
>> fine. They were a make called Fensock which I don't think exists
>> anymore. They clamp the timber with a pair of nuts and bolts which
>> close the steal collar tightly around the post bottoms.
>>
>> When I looked for something similar some years later, I couldn't
>> find it. I could do with some now for a different fence if anyone
>> knows of a source.
>

> IME the posts never fit without a lot of buggering about. This maybe?
>
> https://www.toolstation.com/shop/Landscaping/d130/Fence+Post+Metalwork+%26+Tools/sd3224/Drive-in+Post+Anchor/p12179

Yes, those are very similar design, thanks!

[PeterC]

On Sat, 16 Jun 2018 09:13:14 -0700 (PDT), stuart noble wrote:

> IME the posts never fit without a lot of buggering about. This maybe?
>
> https://www.toolstation.com/shop/Landscaping/d130/Fence+Post+Metalwork+%26+Tools/sd3224/Drive-in+Post+Anchor/p12179

Every time that I've used those there seems to be a stone deep down that
couses a twist. It's never near the surface where the twist could be
corrected. With about 50 cm. of fins in the ground and the stone, it's
impossible to twist it back.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

[Andrew Gabriel]

In article <1fqz8qgtg8htv.12daz2uti31ma$.d...@40tude.net>,

PeterC <giraffe...@homecall.co.uk> writes:
> On Sat, 16 Jun 2018 09:13:14 -0700 (PDT), stuart noble wrote:
>
>> IME the posts never fit without a lot of buggering about. This maybe?
>>
>> https://www.toolstation.com/shop/Landscaping/d130/Fence+Post+Metalwork+%26+Tools/sd3224/Drive-in+Post+Anchor/p12179
>
> Every time that I've used those there seems to be a stone deep down that
> couses a twist. It's never near the surface where the twist could be
> corrected. With about 50 cm. of fins in the ground and the stone, it's
> impossible to twist it back.

Somewhere, I still have the Fensock dummy that goes into the socket
for hammering them into the ground. It's a short length of fence post
but much harder wood, with a metal cap on the top where the hammer
hits it, and a metal rod through it so you can twist to keep the socket
square as you hammer it in. ISTR it was quite expensive, but wouldn't
be hard to make if you could get a short length of 4x4 hardwood.

[Jim K]

and...@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) Wrote in message:

Andrew, may I ask what you use to post on here?
When you do post your & subsequent replies from others posts lines
do not wrap properly & I have to scroll sideways with the risk of
moving onto the next topic etc.

This only happens on your posts & on any subsequent replies to
your posts...

Just thought I'd ask if there was something not just right at your
end or mine?
--
--
Jim K

[Vir Campestris]

On 15/06/2018 09:32, Martin Brown wrote:

Not half as hard as getting the rotten stump out of concrete.

I usually bury a spur. When the post rots away I can just bolt a new
post on.

Andy

[Rob Morley]

On Sun, 17 Jun 2018 09:54:08 +0100 (GMT+01:00)
Jim K <jk98...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Andrew, may I ask what you use to post on here?

You don't need to, it's in his headers: "knews 1.0c.0"

> When you do post your & subsequent replies from others posts lines
> do not wrap properly & I have to scroll sideways with the risk of
> moving onto the next topic etc.

They display properly on this machine.

>
> This only happens on your posts & on any subsequent replies to
> your posts...
>
> Just thought I'd ask if there was something not just right at your
> end or mine?

As you seem to be using "PiaoHong.Usenet.Client.Free:1.65" I'd wager
it's your end that's getting its bits in a twist.

[Jim K]

Rob Morley <nos...@ntlworld.com> Wrote in message:

Yet it works perfectly with every other post... including your
trite offerings...
--

[Rod Speed]

"Jim K" <jk98...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:jLOdnVTu_8Lf3bXG...@brightview.co.uk...

That may be because no one else uses knews 1.0c.0 in here
or where else you read and its showing up a fault in yours.
Both are in fact quite rarely used usenet clients.

[Jim K]

"Rod Speed" <rod.sp...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:

Arse about face as usual woddles. I don't use knews.

[Rod Speed]

"Jim K" <jk98...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:_oOdnXb4X75zKrXG...@brightview.co.uk...

We'll see...

> I don't use knews.

Never said you did.

[Jim K]

You replied to my post and you wrote:-

"That may be because no one else uses knews 1.0c.0 in here
>>> or where else you read and its showing up a fault in yours."

Who is the "you" referring to?

Prepare the paper bag you'll be unable to escape from....

[Rod Speed]

"Jim K" <jk98...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:W9KdnUjCOOkScrXG...@brightview.co.uk...

Andrew. That should be obvious from the first two quoted lines.

[Jim K]

Wouldn't it have been more logical to not reply to my post when
making your priceless observations about someone else's
usage?

How's that paper bag?
--

[Rod Speed]

"Jim K" <jk98...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:d9CdnfH2hN041bTG...@brightview.co.uk...

No, because what I said would explain why you only get that
effect with Andrew's posts, even if the bug is in your usenet client.

[Jim K]

Paper bag's full woddles, you're still in it ;-)

[Rod Speed]

"Jim K" <jk98...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:xpGdnYrZb_fn97TG...@brightview.co.uk...

You never could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag.

[Jim K]

Ha!

[Peeler]

On Wed, 20 Jun 2018 05:24:58 +1000, cantankerous geezer Rot Speed blabbered,
again:

>> Wouldn't it have been more logical to not reply to my post
>
> No, because what I said would explain why you only get that
> effect with Andrew's posts, even if the bug is in your usenet client.

You lonely senile cretin must be ever so thankful that on Usenet you can
drivel about just ANYTHING, eh, senile Rot? BTW, aren't you pushing for 86
already? <BG>

[Peeler]

On Wed, 20 Jun 2018 07:14:43 +1000, cantankerous geezer Rot Speed blabbered,
again:

>>> No, because what I said would explain why you only get that
>>> effect with Andrew's posts, even if the bug is in your usenet client.
>
> You never could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag.

You pesky senile cretin you!

https://thetravellingtiles.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/6a00e398a64b68000100e398b6f9820001.jpg

--
Retarded, anal, subnormal and extremely proud of it: our resident
psychopath, dumb serbian bitch G. Razovic (aka "The Rectum").

[Andrew Gabriel]

In article <20180618222856.6e2980ae@mars>,

Rob Morley <nos...@ntlworld.com> writes:
> On Sun, 17 Jun 2018 09:54:08 +0100 (GMT+01:00)
> Jim K <jk98...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Andrew, may I ask what you use to post on here?
>
> You don't need to, it's in his headers: "knews 1.0c.0"

It's an ancient Motif-based news reader.
(That reminds me someone asked me to upload the
source code to github, as I may have the only copy
that still exists. I didn't write it, although I
have had to modify it to add authentication.)

>> When you do post your & subsequent replies from others posts lines
>> do not wrap properly & I have to scroll sideways with the risk of
>> moving onto the next topic etc.

I think that's something your newsreader is doing.
Knews is old enough to moan at me if I post lines
longer than 72 characters, just in case someone
can't read it on their KSR33.

> They display properly on this machine.
>>
>> This only happens on your posts & on any subsequent replies to
>> your posts...
>>
>> Just thought I'd ask if there was something not just right at your
>> end or mine?

Your posts seem to indent the second and subsequent
line of each paragraph, which is not something I've
noticed in anyone else's posts. I don't see any
headers in your posts indicating that this is a
feature of any strange transfer encoding.
Just for fun, I've done this explicitly in this
paragraph.

> As you seem to be using "PiaoHong.Usenet.Client.Free:1.65" I'd wager
> it's your end that's getting its bits in a twist.

[Jim K]

and...@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) Wrote in message:

Dunno.

But yours are the only posts so far that do it, so dunno what this
app could be doing wrong just for your posts?

Your last post doesn't exhibit it as bad as usual, did you change
something ?

It's like when someone forces a web browser to display paragraphs
at a set width regardless of screen size, magnification level
etc. Maybe a fixed font, or line length type setting that "fixes"
line lengths, justification in a word processor etc.

[Terry Casey]

In article
<xpGdnYrZb_fn97TG...@brightview.co.uk>, jk989898
@gmail.com says...
>

Someone else who doesn't have the courtesy to cut out the crap

--

Terry

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

[Terry Casey]

In article <Aaidnf5TD5Z86bTGnZ2dnUU78Y-
dn...@brightview.co.uk>, jk98...@gmail.com says...
>

.. and again ...

[Andrew Gabriel]

In article <npadnTcU5cjSGrTG...@brightview.co.uk>,

I misformatted the last paragraph like your articles are.
So this implies PiaoHong.Usenet.Client.Free is making
incorrect assumptions about usenet article formatting.

> It's like when someone forces a web browser to display paragraphs
> at a set width regardless of screen size, magnification level
> etc. Maybe a fixed font, or line length type setting that "fixes"
> line lengths, justification in a word processor etc.

PiaoHong.Usenet.Client.Free has had no updates since 2014,
and most of the (very few) reviews are 1-3 stars.

[Jim K]

Therefore?

[Rod Speed]

"Jim K" <jk98...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:xZKdndlTU5heIbfG...@brightview.co.uk...

You're unlikely to get that wart fixed.

[Peeler]

On Thu, 21 Jun 2018 08:19:26 +1000, cantankerous geezer Rot Speed blabbered,
again:

>>

>> Therefore?
>
> You're unlikely to get that wart fixed.

Someone needs to fix your senile big gob, Rot!

--
Cursitor Doom about Rot Speed:
" The man is a conspicuous and unashamed ignoramus."
MID: <pgbeg9$bv4$8...@dont-email.me>

[Jim K]

"Rod Speed" <rod.sp...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:
>
>

Assuming there is one to fix...
--

[Rod Speed]

"Jim K" <jk98...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:6vGdnb9l_M4bNLbG...@brightview.co.uk...

No assumption, you have proven that there is given that no
one else sees the problem you are seeing with Andrew's posts.

[Peeler]

On Fri, 22 Jun 2018 05:13:22 +1000, cantankerous geezer Rot Speed blabbered,
again:

>>> You're unlikely to get that wart fixed.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Assuming there is one to fix...
>
> No assumption, you have proven that there is given that no
> one else sees the problem you are seeing with Andrew's posts.

Going by the way you behave here, you "brain" needs fixing, Rot!

[Jim K]

Logic not your strong suit either wod!

[Rod Speed]

"Jim K" <jk98...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:UJadnXaVw8ICl7HG...@brightview.co.uk...

[Jim K]

With your pitiful efforts I don't need to be able to ;-)

[Peeler]

On Fri, 22 Jun 2018 07:11:03 +1000, cantankerous geezer Rot Speed blabbered,
again:


>>

>> Logic not your strong suit either wod!
>
> You never could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag.

YOU will certainly keep bullshitting your way into the grave, senile cretin!

[Rod Speed]

"Jim K" <jk98...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:eZWdnVXKY8vkg7HG...@brightview.co.uk...

[Peeler]

On Fri, 22 Jun 2018 08:29:04 +1000, cantankerous geezer Rot Speed blabbered,
again:


>>

>> With your pitiful efforts I don't need to be able to ;-)
>
> You never could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag.

You will certainly keep bullshitting your way into the grave, senile cretin!