How long can I run my van without an alternator?

[ARW]

Bugger just failed. Tonights journey home took an hour (inc 15 minutes with
the engine off at a level crossing) but with the headlights on for all the
journey apart from the level crossing wait.

No heater on, no radio on and just an occasional use of the wipers.

It's a 65Ah battery in a diesel van and the battery still has some power in
it now that I am back home - enough to restart the van without any problems.

The problem is I cannot easily get the alternator changed until Monday so
the 8A battery charger will be on overnight and I need the van for the next
3 days. Recharging at work is not a problem.

--
Adam

[David WE Roberts]

"ARW" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:k6p42o$iuc$1...@dont-email.me...

Ran my old diesel Volvo for about 2 hours begore the battery gave up.
Five minutes from my destination, as well.
Can you scare up a spare battery just in case?

--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.
[Not even bunny]

Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

[Mentalguy2k8]

"ARW" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:k6p42o$iuc$1...@dont-email.me...

I'd have thought that running for 45 minutes with headlights on was pushing
it... maybe the battery recovered a little at the level crossing.

Can't you source a new one locally ASAP and fit it yourself? Or knock off
work early so it's still light.....

[The Natural Philosopher]

Not for long. wifes car lost its headlights after less than an hour of
being towed.


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

[Mr Pounder]

"ARW" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:k6p42o$iuc$1...@dont-email.me...

You will be soon up shit creek without a paddle.


>
>

[John Rumm]

Headlights are going to be the killer (although make sure no heated rear
screen / mirrors etc are on). I would expect much over an hour would be
pushing it with the lights on. (you will get considerably more time in
the day)


--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

[ARW]

David WE Roberts wrote:
> "ARW" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:k6p42o$iuc$1...@dont-email.me...
> > Bugger just failed. Tonights journey home took an hour (inc 15
> > minutes with the engine off at a level crossing) but with the
> > headlights on for all the journey apart from the level crossing
> > wait. No heater on, no radio on and just an occasional use of the
> > wipers.
> >
> > It's a 65Ah battery in a diesel van and the battery still has some
> > power in it now that I am back home - enough to restart the van
> > without any problems.
> >
> > The problem is I cannot easily get the alternator changed until
> > Monday so the 8A battery charger will be on overnight and I need
> > the van for the next 3 days. Recharging at work is not a problem.
>
>
> Ran my old diesel Volvo for about 2 hours begore the battery gave up.
> Five minutes from my destination, as well.

> Can you scare up a spare battery just in case?

Yes, but it takes 50 minutes to swap the battery:-(

On the plus side I do not need headlights in the morning to get to work and
I am quite happy to do a rush hour crawl though a town centre with just the
parking lights on for the journey home (I'll just switch the headlights on
for the last 15 miles home).

The lack of a heater is not a problem as I am working outside all day.

--
Adam

[ARW]

Mentalguy2k8 wrote:
> "ARW" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:k6p42o$iuc$1...@dont-email.me...
> > Bugger just failed. Tonights journey home took an hour (inc 15
> > minutes with the engine off at a level crossing) but with the
> > headlights on for all the journey apart from the level crossing
> > wait. No heater on, no radio on and just an occasional use of the
> > wipers.
> >
> > It's a 65Ah battery in a diesel van and the battery still has some
> > power in it now that I am back home - enough to restart the van
> > without any problems.
> >
> > The problem is I cannot easily get the alternator changed until
> > Monday so the 8A battery charger will be on overnight and I need
> > the van for the next 3 days. Recharging at work is not a problem.
>
> I'd have thought that running for 45 minutes with headlights on was
> pushing it... maybe the battery recovered a little at the level
> crossing.

The level crossing was 5 minutes into the journey. I knew I was in for a
wait as the gatekeeper told me there were three trains to pass.

> Can't you source a new one locally ASAP and fit it yourself? Or knock
> off work early so it's still light.....

Afraid not.

--
Adam

[ARW]

John Rumm wrote:
> On 30/10/2012 17:51, ARW wrote:
> > Bugger just failed. Tonights journey home took an hour (inc 15
> > minutes with the engine off at a level crossing) but with the
> > headlights on for all the journey apart from the level crossing
> > wait. No heater on, no radio on and just an occasional use of the
> > wipers.
> >
> > It's a 65Ah battery in a diesel van and the battery still has some
> > power in it now that I am back home - enough to restart the van
> > without any problems. The problem is I cannot easily get the alternator
> > changed until
> > Monday so the 8A battery charger will be on overnight and I need
> > the van for the next 3 days. Recharging at work is not a problem.
>
> Headlights are going to be the killer (although make sure no heated
> rear screen / mirrors etc are on). I would expect much over an hour
> would be pushing it with the lights on. (you will get considerably
> more time in the day)

The battery showed 12.02V when I started to recharge it. The van started OK
at that voltage. However there is no need to restart the van between
journeys to and from work so that helps.

--
Adam

[tony sayer]

In article <k6p5nc$vmn$1...@dont-email.me>, ARW <adamwadsworth@blueyonder.c
o.uk> scribeth thus

If you have a spare battery and a set of jump leads that might get you
out of a fix if the worst comes to the worst..

Sure the Alternator is duff, not just a simple fan belt loss of
tension?...

--
Tony Sayer

[ARW]

ARW wrote:

> Mentalguy2k8 wrote:
> > Can't you source a new one locally ASAP and fit it yourself? Or
> > knock off work early so it's still light.....
>
> Afraid not.

And that is because the school holidays are our busiest times. Normally
there is a spare van I could use.

I might also add I have no idea how to swap the alternator:-) - it looks
like the power steering pump is bolted to it. I'll leave the swapping of the
alternator to my brother on Monday morning. The worst case is using a VW
Polo to get to and from work.

--
Adam

[Tim Lamb]

In message <k6p59c$imt$2...@news.albasani.net>, The Natural Philosopher
<t...@invalid.invalid> writes

>On 30/10/12 17:51, ARW wrote:
>> Bugger just failed. Tonights journey home took an hour (inc 15 minutes with
>> the engine off at a level crossing) but with the headlights on for all the
>> journey apart from the level crossing wait.
>>
>> No heater on, no radio on and just an occasional use of the wipers.
>>
>> It's a 65Ah battery in a diesel van and the battery still has some power in
>> it now that I am back home - enough to restart the van without any problems.
>>
>> The problem is I cannot easily get the alternator changed until Monday so
>> the 8A battery charger will be on overnight and I need the van for the next
>> 3 days. Recharging at work is not a problem.
>>
>Not for long. wifes car lost its headlights after less than an hour of
>being towed.

Front wheel drive van?

Conventional filament bulbs would pull about 11-12 amps but halogens?

Cooling fan is on a huge fuse so must take a bit. Instruments? Who
knows!
>
>

--
Tim Lamb

[ARW]

Now I can do that. And I do have very good set of jump leads.

> Sure the Alternator is duff, not just a simple fan belt loss of
> tension?...

Totally sure, it's whining like a posh bird who does not have tickets for
Ascot.

--
Adam

[charles]

In article <$XuxAMri...@marfordfarm.demon.co.uk>, Tim Lamb

headlamps have used halogens for very long time. My 1972 Cortina had them -
55w each

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

[ARW]

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 30/10/12 17:51, ARW wrote:
> > Bugger just failed. Tonights journey home took an hour (inc 15
> > minutes with the engine off at a level crossing) but with the
> > headlights on for all the journey apart from the level crossing
> > wait. No heater on, no radio on and just an occasional use of the
> > wipers.
> >
> > It's a 65Ah battery in a diesel van and the battery still has some
> > power in it now that I am back home - enough to restart the van
> > without any problems. The problem is I cannot easily get the alternator
> > changed until
> > Monday so the 8A battery charger will be on overnight and I need
> > the van for the next 3 days. Recharging at work is not a problem.
> >
> Not for long. wifes car lost its headlights after less than an hour of
> being towed.

Why did she need the headlights?

--
Adam

[Andrew Gabriel]

In article <k6p86g$iki$1...@dont-email.me>,
"ARW" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> writes:

> tony sayer wrote:
>>
>> If you have a spare battery and a set of jump leads that might get you
>> out of a fix if the worst comes to the worst..
>
> Now I can do that. And I do have very good set of jump leads.

Can't see how that helps in this case.
So you start the engine with the jumpleads, disconnect them,
and the engine will conk out soon after, if not immediately.
Driving along with jumpleads connected sounds like a good way
to end up with a fire in the engine compartment when they fall
off.

>> Sure the Alternator is duff, not just a simple fan belt loss of
>> tension?...
>
> Totally sure, it's whining like a posh bird who does not have tickets for
> Ascot.

That could be a bearing or slipping belt, but doesn't mean
it's not generating (although it probably won't last long
like that).

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

[The Other Mike]

On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 17:51:20 -0000, "ARW" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk>
wrote:

No idea about a modern common rail diesel, but on a petrol fuelled vehicle a
couple of amps is a typical standing electrical load, with a fully charged
battery in good condition a couple of hours running using headlights is
achievable if you don't need the ability to restart. Made occasional bursts of
the heater blower to keep the screen clear and sometimes used the radio.
(BTDTGTTS)

Stick a clamp ammeter suitable for DC round a battery cable and guess your range
:)


--

[meow...@care2.com]

Headlights are the main load, 55w ea is around 10A, plus around 1A for rears. ISTR mechanical ignition eating a few amps. 15A 65Ah is 4hrs if fully charged. Its longer than a car because of the battery capacity.

A spare battery will help, plus parking it on a hill so you can bump start it. The average petrol tranny is push startable on level ground, I don't know about diesel. If you've got to preheat it, that'll drain the battery fast.

If you break down away from home, towing is pricey these days, just about no-one is willing to use a tow rope any more, everyone wants to trailer it. I've done enough towing to understand why.

If you end up moving it when the engine conks out, don't forget 95% of the brake effort is powered by the engine.


NT

[Tim Watts]

ARW wrote:

>
> Yes, but it takes 50 minutes to swap the battery:-(
>
> On the plus side I do not need headlights in the morning to get to work
> and I am quite happy to do a rush hour crawl though a town centre with
> just the parking lights on for the journey home (I'll just switch the
> headlights on for the last 15 miles home).
>
> The lack of a heater is not a problem as I am working outside all day.
>

Could you gerry rig a spare in the footwell into the fag socket? It should
take some of the load whilst driving and keep the main one going a bit
longer. Unplug when starting of course :)

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/

"She got her looks from her father. He's a plastic surgeon."

[Tim Watts]

Drop it in a local place near work (Kennington I assume) and let them fix it
in the day?

[Mentalguy2k8]

"Andrew Gabriel" <and...@cucumber.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:k6p9hg$nil$1...@dont-email.me...

> In article <k6p86g$iki$1...@dont-email.me>,
> "ARW" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> writes:
>> tony sayer wrote:
>>>
>>> If you have a spare battery and a set of jump leads that might get you
>>> out of a fix if the worst comes to the worst..
>>
>> Now I can do that. And I do have very good set of jump leads.
>
> Can't see how that helps in this case.
> So you start the engine with the jumpleads, disconnect them,
> and the engine will conk out soon after, if not immediately.
> Driving along with jumpleads connected sounds like a good way
> to end up with a fire in the engine compartment when they fall
> off.

True, you're better off fully charging 2 batteries, reconnect one and keep
the other in the back (with tools) to swap over when the first one gives up.
Should be able to charge them both overnight for the morning run, then
charge them both (if needed) at work for the trip home.

[Clive George]

On 30/10/2012 19:24, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
> In article <k6p86g$iki$1...@dont-email.me>,
> "ARW" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> writes:
>> tony sayer wrote:
>>>
>>> If you have a spare battery and a set of jump leads that might get you
>>> out of a fix if the worst comes to the worst..
>>
>> Now I can do that. And I do have very good set of jump leads.
>
> Can't see how that helps in this case.
> So you start the engine with the jumpleads, disconnect them,
> and the engine will conk out soon after, if not immediately.
> Driving along with jumpleads connected sounds like a good way
> to end up with a fire in the engine compartment when they fall
> off.

You don't need much power to run an old engine - I had an alternator
fail, discovered this when I stopped to phone home and could't start the
engine again. (can't remember why the light didn't come on, but it
didn't). I got a tow start, then we drove the remaining distance home
following in close convoy turning my lamps on when other cars were
around (or likely to be). Fortunately it's quite quiet round here at
night :-)

This was an old diesel though, so it only needed power for the stop
solenoid - I wonder how much ECUs and electric injectors take.

[curious]

I got a device in Halfords which plugs into the fag socket and has jump lead connectors to connect a battery for a winter top up of a weak battery.

[Mentalguy2k8]

"ARW" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message

news:k6p7rt$fuc$1...@dont-email.me...

Go with the Polo, at least it'll get you there. And more importantly, home
again :)

If your van conks out in the middle of nowhere, you've lost a day's work and
you've still got to get it home or to a garage if you're not with AA.

[ARW]

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
> In article <k6p86g$iki$1...@dont-email.me>,
> "ARW" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> writes:
> > tony sayer wrote:
> > >
> > > If you have a spare battery and a set of jump leads that might
> > > get you out of a fix if the worst comes to the worst..
> >
> > Now I can do that. And I do have very good set of jump leads.
>
> Can't see how that helps in this case.
> So you start the engine with the jumpleads, disconnect them,
> and the engine will conk out soon after, if not immediately.
> Driving along with jumpleads connected sounds like a good way
> to end up with a fire in the engine compartment when they fall
> off.

I see your point.

> > > Sure the Alternator is duff, not just a simple fan belt loss of
> > > tension?...
> >
> > Totally sure, it's whining like a posh bird who does not have
> > tickets for Ascot.
>
> That could be a bearing or slipping belt, but doesn't mean
> it's not generating (although it probably won't last long
> like that).

I am 99.99% sure that the alternator has failed. The power steering runs off
the same belt and that works fine.

[ARW]

I am a member of the AA (the car one).



--
Adam

[Mike Stanford]

"ARW" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message

news:k6p42o$iuc$1...@dont-email.me...
> Bugger just failed. Tonights journey home took an hour (inc 15 minutes
> with the engine off at a level crossing) but with the headlights on for
> all the journey apart from the level crossing wait.
>
> No heater on, no radio on and just an occasional use of the wipers.
>
> It's a 65Ah battery in a diesel van and the battery still has some power
> in it now that I am back home - enough to restart the van without any
> problems.
>
> The problem is I cannot easily get the alternator changed until Monday so
> the 8A battery charger will be on overnight and I need the van for the
> next 3 days. Recharging at work is not a problem.
>

> --
> Adam
>
>

I had a similar problem in December last year. Please remember to undo the
caps to
the battery cells when charging. I forgot, and it didn't t half go off with
a bang. It blew
a bloody great hole in the end of the battery!!

Mike

[Roger Mills]

On 30/10/2012 17:51, ARW wrote:

> Bugger just failed. Tonights journey home took an hour (inc 15 minutes with
> the engine off at a level crossing) but with the headlights on for all the
> journey apart from the level crossing wait.
>
> No heater on, no radio on and just an occasional use of the wipers.
>
> It's a 65Ah battery in a diesel van and the battery still has some power in
> it now that I am back home - enough to restart the van without any problems.
>
> The problem is I cannot easily get the alternator changed until Monday so
> the 8A battery charger will be on overnight and I need the van for the next
> 3 days. Recharging at work is not a problem.
>

I would have thought that a man of your calIber would have inserted an
ammeter into the battery connection to see what current you were
drawing. You should then be able to work out approx how long a battery
of specified capacity will last.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

[John Williamson]

ARW wrote:

> tony sayer wrote:

>> If you have a spare battery and a set of jump leads that might get you
>> out of a fix if the worst comes to the worst..
>
> Now I can do that. And I do have very good set of jump leads.
>

Alternatively, try one of the cigarette lighter jump lead sets and one
of the jump start batteries with a cigarette lighter socket built in.
Disconnect for starting, and connect while running. You don't even need
to open the bonnet. Or make up a lead with a cigarette lighter plug on
one end and a pair of decent Crocodile clips on the other.

>> Sure the Alternator is duff, not just a simple fan belt loss of
>> tension?...
>
> Totally sure, it's whining like a posh bird who does not have tickets for
> Ascot.
>

Let's hope the bearings don't fail totally, then. Electrically, there's
normally no problem running with no charge from the alternator, but a
mechanical failure can be a bit dramatic.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[The Nomad]

Well,

Ford Focus estate with a tired battery - only about 15 minutes with head
lights on, then battery voltage too low to run EMU and it was all stop.

Good luck - I'd bet on the polo me.

Avpx



--
Lady Ramkin's bosom rose and fell like an
empire.
(Guards! Guards!)
20:30:01 up 10 days, 3:52, 7 users, load average: 0.89, 0.72, 0.76

[Mathew Newton]

On Tuesday, October 30, 2012 7:42:59 PM UTC, Mentalguy2k8 wrote:

> If your van conks out in the middle of nowhere, you've lost a day's work and
> you've still got to get it home or to a garage if you're not with AA.

It's not just the inconvenience of conking out that's a problem, but also systems like the SRS/Airbag self-monitoring function which often have a test for low voltage.

If tripped it may latch the malfunction light, disable the SRS, and require a garage with the right tool to reset it (which might cost).

Mathew

[ARW]

Nothing that the cutting the belt would not cure?

--
Adam

[Andy Champ]

On 30/10/2012 17:51, ARW wrote:

> No heater on, no radio on and just an occasional use of the wipers.

Heater is fine. Heater _fan_ is what you must avoid. Slipstream may
give you a little warmth.

Andy

[Bill Wright]

One of the members of our motorhome club had the alternator fail at the
end of his holiday, just as he was setting off for home. He had to be at
work on the Monday, he was at the top end of Scotland, and couldn't hang
about. He tied his little Honda genny onto the roof platform, and fed
the mains voltage into one of his chargers. Linked the habitation
circuit fed from that charger to the vehicle battery via a long length
of TV coax. It worked fine, got him home. Several times he forgot to
disconnect whilst starting and strangely the TV cable didn't catch fire.

Bill

[John Williamson]

You may find that you need muscles in your legs and arms that you didn't
know you had, as the power steering pump will stop working if what you
have posted is correct. Ditto the vacuum pump for the brake servo. You
also need to be careful that the fan belt doesn't drive the water pump,
as that can cause a *very* expensive overheating problem very quickly
indeed.

[Jules Richardson]

On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 13:35:27 -0700, Mathew Newton wrote:
> If tripped it may latch the malfunction light, disable the SRS, and
> require a garage with the right tool to reset it (which might cost).

A little bit of electrical tape to cover the light is a lot less faff.

[Jules Richardson]

On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 19:33:41 +0000, Tim Watts wrote:
> Could you gerry rig a spare in the footwell into the fag socket? It
> should take some of the load whilst driving and keep the main one going
> a bit longer. Unplug when starting of course :)

Ahh, the automotive equivalent of a mains cable with a plug at both
ends :-)

Wonder what the typical current limit via a fag lighter socket is? Are
they fused these days? Drive for the spark and ECU probably isn't much,
but things like the radiator cooling fans probably need a fair bit.

[ARW]

So worse than having to walk around instead of driving around to the fwb's
tonight:-(


--
Adam

[John Williamson]

Unfortunately, yes. As someone else has said, the Polo sounds like an
excellent idea.

[curious]

Fused so plug in when car parked for 1 hour with indignation on to have cigar lighter live. Blew my fuse once because I was not careful

[Mathew Newton]

On Tuesday, October 30, 2012 9:26:34 PM UTC, Jules Richardson wrote:

> A little bit of electrical tape to cover the light is a lot less faff.

The airbags wonderful other SRS components would still be inoperative and you'd fail your MOT doing that.

[Dave Liquorice]

On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 12:28:35 -0700 (PDT), meow...@care2.com wrote:

> If you end up moving it when the engine conks out, don't forget 95% of
> the brake effort is powered by the engine.

That's why anyone with any sense doesn't rope tow a modern car. That and
the lack of power steering as well makes a car without engine power
*very* hard work to steer and brake.

--
Cheers
Dave.

[brass monkey]

"Mathew Newton" <mathewja...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:a31285e8-e269-4ecf...@googlegroups.com...

This is "progress".

[Jules Richardson]

Curious, there - are cars without power brakes much harder to stop when
the engine's not running than those which never had power brakes in the
first place?

I've got no power brakes on the truck and yes, it's like stopping a train
- but it *will* stop. But of course it was designed not to have power
brakes, so perhaps the manual servo is tuned to give more oomph from a
mk.1 foot than an 'equivalent' powered servo would be.

Oh, lack of power steering's not an issue so long as you're moving at a
few MPH or more; it's only when parking that I feel like a need gorilla
arms :-)

cheers

Jules

[meow...@care2.com]

On Tuesday, October 30, 2012 10:28:03 PM UTC, Dave Liquorice wrote:

> On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 12:28:35 -0700 (PDT), meow2222 wrote:

> > If you end up moving it when the engine conks out, don't forget 95% of
> > the brake effort is powered by the engine.
> That's why anyone with any sense doesn't rope tow a modern car. That and
> the lack of power steering as well makes a car without engine power
> *very* hard work to steer and brake.

Anyone that knows what they're doing puts the car in top gear when being towed, either all the time or at key moments so the necessary vacuum power is available. The main problem with towing is you're doing 40 or 50 just yards behind someone, with absolutely no forward vision or control over what they're doing, and a lot of drivers really have no grasp of the issues the towed car faces in such a situation. It can be fun.


NT

[meow...@care2.com]

On Tuesday, October 30, 2012 11:41:00 PM UTC, Jules Richardson wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 22:23:18 +0000, Dave Liquorice wrote:

> > On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 12:28:35 -0700 (PDT), meow2222 wrote:

> > >> If you end up moving it when the engine conks out, don't forget 95% of
> >> the brake effort is powered by the engine.
> > > That's why anyone with any sense doesn't rope tow a modern car. That and
> > the lack of power steering as well makes a car without engine power
> > *very* hard work to steer and brake.

> Curious, there - are cars without power brakes much harder to stop when
> the engine's not running than those which never had power brakes in the
> first place?

Hugely so. Nearly all cars have power brakes. With no vacuum for the servo you don't get roadworthy braking.

> I've got no power brakes on the truck and yes, it's like stopping a train
> - but it *will* stop. But of course it was designed not to have power
> brakes, so perhaps the manual servo is tuned to give more oomph from a
> mk.1 foot than an 'equivalent' powered servo would be.

Trucks with no brake servo became obsolete in the 1920s. Before then drivers of large trucks had to be built like gorillas.


NT

[Bill Wright]

meow...@care2.com wrote:

>
> Trucks with no brake servo became obsolete in the 1920s. Before then drivers of large trucks had to be built like gorillas.

My 1948 Morris Commercial and my 1956 Bedford ambulance didn't have
power brakes or power steering. The Morris had a double width brake
pedal so you could press on it with two feet.

Bill

[polygonum]

Without electric power for steering in many smaller vehicles. And the
steering motor can take quite a deal of power - no idea of the
wattage/amperage.

--
Rod

[Brian Gaff]

I guess it depends how good the battery is, if its quite old then its not
going to do as well.

Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active

"ARW" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:k6p42o$iuc$1...@dont-email.me...

> Bugger just failed. Tonights journey home took an hour (inc 15 minutes
> with the engine off at a level crossing) but with the headlights on for
> all the journey apart from the level crossing wait.
>

> No heater on, no radio on and just an occasional use of the wipers.
>

> It's a 65Ah battery in a diesel van and the battery still has some power
> in it now that I am back home - enough to restart the van without any
> problems.
>
> The problem is I cannot easily get the alternator changed until Monday so
> the 8A battery charger will be on overnight and I need the van for the
> next 3 days. Recharging at work is not a problem.
>

> --
> Adam
>

[Tim Watts]

15A mine is fused at - that's all 3.

And given the wiring resistance the footwell battery will be giving a lesser
share.
--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/

"She got her looks from her father. He's a plastic surgeon."

[Martin Brown]

On 30/10/2012 18:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 30/10/12 17:51, ARW wrote:

>> Bugger just failed. Tonights journey home took an hour (inc 15 minutes
>> with
>> the engine off at a level crossing) but with the headlights on for all
>> the
>> journey apart from the level crossing wait.
>>
>> No heater on, no radio on and just an occasional use of the wipers.
>>
>> It's a 65Ah battery in a diesel van and the battery still has some
>> power in
>> it now that I am back home - enough to restart the van without any
>> problems.
>>
>> The problem is I cannot easily get the alternator changed until Monday so
>> the 8A battery charger will be on overnight and I need the van for the
>> next
>> 3 days. Recharging at work is not a problem.
>>

> Not for long. wifes car lost its headlights after less than an hour of
> being towed.

It *is* borderline but with 65Ah and provided that it is recharged
overnight and recharged again at the other end it might be doable.
You also have to avoid overcharging it!

If you have a clamp current meter available then measure the current!
Then you will know how many hours battery life you have to flat. I
suspect that it is just about doable but not really recommended.

The tricky bit is ending up stuck half way home with a stalled engine.
Once the engine is going it will keep running but the headlights will
gradually get fainter. Do you have a generator set and battery charger?

Once things are running you are OK but the headlights and maybe the fuel
pump represent a serious load (don't listen to the radio!).

ISTR Headlamps and assorted sidelights will total ~20A give or take.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[Man at B&Q]

On Oct 31, 8:54 am, Martin Brown <|||newspam...@nezumi.demon.co.uk>
wrote:

> gradually get fainter. Do you have a generator set and battery charger?

I can't help but think of the top gear hybrid vehicle.

MBQ

[Man at B&Q]

On Oct 30, 7:28 pm, meow2...@care2.com wrote:

> On Tuesday, October 30, 2012 5:51:21 PM UTC, adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
> > Bugger just failed. Tonights journey home took an hour (inc 15 minutes with
> > the engine off at a level crossing) but with the headlights on for all the
> > journey apart from the level crossing wait.
> > No heater on, no radio on and just an occasional use of the wipers.
> > It's a 65Ah battery in a diesel van and the battery still has some power in
> > it now that I am back home - enough to restart the van without any problems.
> > The problem is I cannot easily get the alternator changed until Monday so
> > the 8A battery charger will be on overnight and I need the van for the next
> > 3 days. Recharging at work is not a problem.
>

> Headlights are the main load, 55w ea is around 10A, plus around 1A for rears. ISTR mechanical ignition eating a few amps. 15A 65Ah is 4hrs if fully charged. Its longer than a car because of the battery capacity.

Is it?

> A spare battery will help, plus parking it on a hill so you can bump start it. The average petrol tranny is push startable on level ground, I don't know about diesel. If you've got to preheat it, that'll drain the battery fast.
>
> If you break down away from home, towing is pricey these days, just about no-one is willing to use a tow rope any more, everyone wants to trailer it. I've done enough towing to understand why.

Did professionals ever use ropes in the last few decades? Solid towing
bars are far more common.

MBQ

[Dave Liquorice]

On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 23:41:00 +0000 (UTC), Jules Richardson wrote:

> Curious, there - are cars without power brakes much harder to stop when
> the engine's not running than those which never had power brakes in the
> first place?

Yes, and it varies from car to car but once the vacum has gone (the first
or possibly second, application of the brakes from loss of power/vacum)
braking will require considerably more effort. In my car braking with no
vacum left requires one to press the pedal with every ounce of strength
you have to get less than 25% of full braking. It will stop but
alarmingly slowly...

> Oh, lack of power steering's not an issue so long as you're moving at a
> few MPH or more; it's only when parking that I feel like a need gorilla
> arms :-)

I suspect that varies from car to car as well. Again mine really needs
gorilla arms if the engine isn't running, moving or not.

--
Cheers
Dave.

[meow...@care2.com]

That's why I said large trucks. Ambulance/transit sized vehicles could use, I can't think of the term, but the direction of pad movement caused forward wheel movement to presss the pads further into the drum.


NT

[Tim Watts]

Neighbour ran out of petrol the other day with car in the middl eof the road
outside my house.

I hopped in and ran it backwards down the hill under gravity in order to
park it properly, before giving her a lift to the petrol station to fill up
a can.

It did take a reasonable amount of foor pressure to control it at just 2mph
on a 5% hill!

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/

"It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent
moral busybodies."

[meow...@care2.com]

With professionals, yes

[tony sayer]

In article <k6p86g$iki$1...@dont-email.me>, ARW <adamwadsworth@blueyonder.c
o.uk> scribeth thus
>tony sayer wrote:
>> In article <k6p5nc$vmn$1...@dont-email.me>, ARW
>> <adamwadsworth@blueyonder.c o.uk> scribeth thus

>> > David WE Roberts wrote:
>> > > "ARW" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
>> > > news:k6p42o$iuc$1...@dont-email.me...

>> > > > Bugger just failed. Tonights journey home took an hour (inc 15
>> > > > minutes with the engine off at a level crossing) but with the
>> > > > headlights on for all the journey apart from the level crossing
>> > > > wait. No heater on, no radio on and just an occasional use of
>> > > > the wipers.
>> > > >
>> > > > It's a 65Ah battery in a diesel van and the battery still has
>> > > > some power in it now that I am back home - enough to restart
>> > > > the van without any problems.
>> > > >
>> > > > The problem is I cannot easily get the alternator changed until
>> > > > Monday so the 8A battery charger will be on overnight and I need
>> > > > the van for the next 3 days. Recharging at work is not a
>> > > > problem.
>> > >
>> > >

>> > > Ran my old diesel Volvo for about 2 hours begore the battery gave
>> > > up. Five minutes from my destination, as well.
>> >
>> > > Can you scare up a spare battery just in case?
>> >
>> > Yes, but it takes 50 minutes to swap the battery:-(
>> >
>> > On the plus side I do not need headlights in the morning to get to
>> > work and I am quite happy to do a rush hour crawl though a town
>> > centre with just the parking lights on for the journey home (I'll
>> > just switch the headlights on for the last 15 miles home).
>> >
>> > The lack of a heater is not a problem as I am working outside all
>> > day.

>> >
>>
>> If you have a spare battery and a set of jump leads that might get you
>> out of a fix if the worst comes to the worst..
>
>Now I can do that. And I do have very good set of jump leads.
>

>> Sure the Alternator is duff, not just a simple fan belt loss of
>> tension?...
>
>Totally sure, it's whining like a posh bird who does not have tickets for
>Ascot.
>

That begs a question;?...

So how many posh birds are chalked up on the headboard then;?...

--
Tony Sayer

[RobertL]

On Tuesday, October 30, 2012 5:51:21 PM UTC, adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:

> Bugger just failed. Recharging at work is not a problem.

Can you carry a generator and battery charger with you just so you know you can recharge anywhere if you really have to?

Robert

[damdu...@yahoo.co.uk]

Small wind turbine as used by yachts on a roof rack, "If I go any
slower officer my lights will go out"

G.Harman

[Jules Richardson]

On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 18:07:43 -0700, meow2222 wrote:

> On Tuesday, October 30, 2012 11:41:00 PM UTC, Jules Richardson wrote:
>> On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 22:23:18 +0000, Dave Liquorice wrote:
>> > On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 12:28:35 -0700 (PDT), meow2222 wrote:
>
>> > >> If you end up moving it when the engine conks out, don't forget
>> > >> 95% of
>> >> the brake effort is powered by the engine.
>> > > That's why anyone with any sense doesn't rope tow a modern car.
>> > > That and
>> > the lack of power steering as well makes a car without engine power
>> > *very* hard work to steer and brake.
>
>> Curious, there - are cars without power brakes much harder to stop when
>> the engine's not running than those which never had power brakes in the
>> first place?
>
> Hugely so. Nearly all cars have power brakes. With no vacuum for the
> servo you don't get roadworthy braking.

The roads are quiet around here so it's not too bad, it just takes a
little more scanning for possible hazards than I suspect most drivers
bother with.

>> I've got no power brakes on the truck and yes, it's like stopping a
>> train - but it *will* stop. But of course it was designed not to have
>> power brakes, so perhaps the manual servo is tuned to give more oomph
>> from a mk.1 foot than an 'equivalent' powered servo would be.
>
> Trucks with no brake servo became obsolete in the 1920s. Before then
> drivers of large trucks had to be built like gorillas.

Agreed, but I'm not sure when that became true on the smaller stuff. This
truck's a 1967 and I believe they offered power assist when the model was
revised in the early 1970s - but I think it was only an option, even then.

cheers

Jules

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 18:19:24 -0000, "ARW"
<adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

>> Can you scare up a spare battery just in case?
>
>Yes, but it takes 50 minutes to swap the battery:-(

Not if you run a temp set of light jumpers through the bulkhead to the
passenger footwell - use the jumps to extend the life of the
underbonnet battery but disconnect them for starting, obviously.

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 21:29:26 +0000 (UTC), Jules Richardson
<jules.richa...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Wonder what the typical current limit via a fag lighter socket is?

Usually fused at 10A

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 18:15:53 +0000, John Rumm
<see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:

>Headlights are going to be the killer (although make sure no heated rear
>screen / mirrors etc are on). I would expect much over an hour would be
>pushing it with the lights on. (you will get considerably more time in
>the day)

My Escort van's alternator failed in the middle of London one Sunday
evening. I got back up the fully-lighted M1 to Luton on sidelights, on
a nearly deserted motorway on my side. It was surprising how many
arseholes on the other carriageway were flashing their lights at me
for not having my headlights on. Stupid cunts.

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 18:07:43 -0700 (PDT), meow...@care2.com wrote:

>Hugely so. Nearly all cars have power brakes. With no vacuum for the servo you don't get roadworthy braking.
>

Cobblers. I suggest you get on a weight training course to build up
your puny muscles. All cars must have useable brakes in the event of
power assistance failure. Trouble is, we have bred a generation of
wimps who've never driven un-assisted vehicles and spout bollocks
about them.

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 03:01:02 -0700 (PDT), meow...@care2.com wrote:

>That's why I said large trucks. Ambulance/transit sized vehicles could use, I can't think of the term, but the direction of pad movement caused forward wheel movement to presss the pads further into the drum.
>

It's called self-servoing action, and it's not pads, it's shoes.
If you know fuck all, don't venture tech opinions.

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 20:45:44 +0000, Bill Wright <bi...@invalid.com>
wrote:

>One of the members of our motorhome club had the alternator fail at the
>end of his holiday, just as he was setting off for home. He had to be at
>work on the Monday, he was at the top end of Scotland, and couldn't hang
>about. He tied his little Honda genny onto the roof platform, and fed
>the mains voltage into one of his chargers. Linked the habitation
>circuit fed from that charger to the vehicle battery via a long length
>of TV coax. It worked fine, got him home. Several times he forgot to
>disconnect whilst starting and strangely the TV cable didn't catch fire.

By that time the battery had taken enough charge, of course.

[John Rumm]

On 30/10/2012 23:24, brass monkey wrote:
> "Mathew Newton" <mathewja...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
> news:a31285e8-e269-4ecf...@googlegroups.com...
>> On Tuesday, October 30, 2012 7:42:59 PM UTC, Mentalguy2k8 wrote:
>>
>>> If your van conks out in the middle of nowhere, you've lost a day's work
>>> and
>>> you've still got to get it home or to a garage if you're not with AA.
>>
>> It's not just the inconvenience of conking out that's a problem, but also
>> systems like the SRS/Airbag self-monitoring function which often have a
>> test for low voltage.
>>
>> If tripped it may latch the malfunction light, disable the SRS, and
>> require a garage with the right tool to reset it (which might cost).
>>
>> Mathew
>
> This is "progress".

It is if you are in the car maintenance business... (makes up for the
engine bays with no serviceable parts in them!)


--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

[Dave Liquorice]

On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 14:30:04 +0000, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

> All cars must have useable brakes in the event of power assistance
> failure.

Define "useable". Yes the brakes will still work on my car with power
assistance but they are way way down in stopping power v effort.

> Trouble is, we have bred a generation of wimps who've never driven
> un-assisted vehicles and spout bollocks about them.

I have and the braking effort was nothing like that required in any
assisted vehicle I have driven with the assistance off. I agree though
that not many people will have driven a vehicle with the power assistance
off/failed. It comes as quite a surprise if you don't know how much
effort you are going to need. And with brakes the extra effort might not
be needed for the first application as there can be enough stored vacum
for that one to be more or less normal.

--
Cheers
Dave.

[meow...@care2.com]

On Wednesday, October 31, 2012 2:31:18 PM UTC, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

> On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 03:01:02 -0700 (PDT), meow2222 wrote:

> >That's why I said large trucks. Ambulance/transit sized vehicles could use, I can't think of the term, but the direction of pad movement caused forward wheel movement to presss the pads further into the drum.

> It's called self-servoing action, and it's not pads, it's shoes.
> If you know fuck all, don't venture tech opinions.

childish

[ARW]

Depends what you call posh - round here if the tattoos on the arms are spelt
correctly then they are classed as posh.

There was the millionaires daughter that I took to the ballet and at the
interval she asked when they were going to sing.

--
Adam

[ARW]

Martin Brown wrote:
> On 30/10/2012 18:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> > On 30/10/12 17:51, ARW wrote:
> > > Bugger just failed. Tonights journey home took an hour (inc 15
> > > minutes with
> > > the engine off at a level crossing) but with the headlights on
> > > for all the
> > > journey apart from the level crossing wait.
> > >
> > > No heater on, no radio on and just an occasional use of the
> > > wipers. It's a 65Ah battery in a diesel van and the battery still has
> > > some
> > > power in
> > > it now that I am back home - enough to restart the van without any
> > > problems.
> > >
> > > The problem is I cannot easily get the alternator changed until
> > > Monday so the 8A battery charger will be on overnight and I need
> > > the van for the next
> > > 3 days. Recharging at work is not a problem.
> > >
> > Not for long. wifes car lost its headlights after less than an hour
> > of being towed.
>
> It *is* borderline but with 65Ah and provided that it is recharged
> overnight and recharged again at the other end it might be doable.
> You also have to avoid overcharging it!

It certainly is doable. I had to take the van this morning as the Polo was
not big enought for the tools and equipement I needed for work.

I decided to risk using the van. If it fails near home I will get towed home
by a mate and if not I have the AA.

An hour and 30 minutes to get home with a 15 minute stop at the wholesalers,
the last 45 minutes with the headlights on and a 10 minute stop at the local
store for a tin of cat food (the shop was chosen on purpose as it is on a
steep hill). The van still fires up OK now I am home.

I have swapped tomorrows shift so that I work 7.30am to 4.00pm instead of
8.00am to 4.30pm so that I should not need the headlights at all and I will
miss the rush hour traffic.



--
Adam

[ARW]

Huge wrote:

> On 2012-10-31, ARW <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > There was the millionaires daughter that I took to the ballet and
> > at the interval she asked when they were going to sing.
>

> Having loads of money is no indication of being cultured. And vice
> versa.
>
> There are ballets that contain opera, and operas that contain ballet,
> so it isn't entirely a dumb question.

Trust me. She was dumb.

--
Adam

[ARW]

Tim Streater wrote:
> In article <k6roop$faq$1...@dont-email.me>,
> "ARW" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

>
> > tony sayer wrote:
>
> > > So how many posh birds are chalked up on the headboard then;?...
> >
> > Depends what you call posh - round here if the tattoos on the arms
> > are spelt correctly then they are classed as posh.
>

> If they've got tattoos visible anywhere then they're not posh.

But all their tattoos are visible when they are naked and you are looking at
the right place:-)

And I hate a tramp stamp.

--
Adam

[Bill Wright]

Some of these young people don't know how to double declutch!

Bill

[The Natural Philosopher]

Id challenge ANYONE to drive an XJS with the PA gone on the brakes..I
did, but boy there want nearly enough leverage to do more than very
modest retardation..

Far worse than non servoed brakes systems of yore.


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

[meow...@care2.com]

On Wednesday, October 31, 2012 2:30:07 PM UTC, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

> On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 18:07:43 -0700 (PDT), meow2222 wrote:

> >Hugely so. Nearly all cars have power brakes. With no vacuum for the servo you don't get roadworthy braking.

> Cobblers. I suggest you get on a weight training course to build up
> your puny muscles. All cars must have useable brakes in the event of
> power assistance failure. Trouble is, we have bred a generation of
> wimps who've never driven un-assisted vehicles and spout bollocks
> about them.

With respect brakes with no working servos vary hugely in usability. Some are almost good enough for daily driving, and at the other end of the spectrum some are so ineffective that no sane person would drive it on the road.


NT

[newshound]

On 31/10/2012 09:24, Dave Liquorice wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 23:41:00 +0000 (UTC), Jules Richardson wrote:
>

>> Oh, lack of power steering's not an issue so long as you're moving at a
>> few MPH or more; it's only when parking that I feel like a need gorilla
>> arms :-)
>
> I suspect that varies from car to car as well. Again mine really needs
> gorilla arms if the engine isn't running, moving or not.
>

Certainly does. When the big red light comes on in a Citroen CX, DS, ID
(meaning you are losing hydraulic pressure) you stop ASAP.

[damdu...@yahoo.co.uk]

On Thu, 01 Nov 2012 05:17:23 +0000, Bill Wright <bi...@invalid.com>
wrote:

>

>> Cobblers. I suggest you get on a weight training course to build up
>> your puny muscles. All cars must have useable brakes in the event of
>> power assistance failure. Trouble is, we have bred a generation of
>> wimps who've never driven un-assisted vehicles and spout bollocks
>> about them.

>Some of these young people don't know how to double declutch!
>
>Bill

Isn't that part of an illegal tackle in Rugby League?

G.Harman

[The Other Mike]

There is a big difference in the braking effort needed on a braking system with
servo assist that has failed compared to one that never had it fitted in the
first place.

Similarly with power assisted steering, where the rack ratios are radically
different to those that are not assisted.

It's *nothing* to do with muscles it's all to do with the fundamental ratios
engineered into the respective systems.

--

[Fredxx]

On 30/10/2012 19:01, ARW wrote:
> tony sayer wrote:
>> In article <k6p5nc$vmn$1...@dont-email.me>, ARW
>> <adamwadsworth@blueyonder.c o.uk> scribeth thus
>>> David WE Roberts wrote:
>>>> "ARW" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>> news:k6p42o$iuc$1...@dont-email.me...

>>>>> Bugger just failed. Tonights journey home took an hour (inc 15
>>>>> minutes with the engine off at a level crossing) but with the
>>>>> headlights on for all the journey apart from the level crossing
>>>>> wait. No heater on, no radio on and just an occasional use of
>>>>> the wipers.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's a 65Ah battery in a diesel van and the battery still has
>>>>> some power in it now that I am back home - enough to restart
>>>>> the van without any problems.
>>>>>
>>>>> The problem is I cannot easily get the alternator changed until
>>>>> Monday so the 8A battery charger will be on overnight and I need
>>>>> the van for the next 3 days. Recharging at work is not a
>>>>> problem.
>>>>
>>>>

>>>> Ran my old diesel Volvo for about 2 hours begore the battery gave
>>>> up. Five minutes from my destination, as well.
>>>
>>>> Can you scare up a spare battery just in case?
>>>
>>> Yes, but it takes 50 minutes to swap the battery:-(
>>>
>>> On the plus side I do not need headlights in the morning to get to
>>> work and I am quite happy to do a rush hour crawl though a town
>>> centre with just the parking lights on for the journey home (I'll
>>> just switch the headlights on for the last 15 miles home).
>>>
>>> The lack of a heater is not a problem as I am working outside all
>>> day.
>>>
>>
>> If you have a spare battery and a set of jump leads that might get you
>> out of a fix if the worst comes to the worst..
>
> Now I can do that. And I do have very good set of jump leads.
>
>> Sure the Alternator is duff, not just a simple fan belt loss of
>> tension?...
>
> Totally sure, it's whining like a posh bird who does not have tickets for
> Ascot.
>

The fact it's whining suggests it is creating some output. A red
ignition light might be because of a problem in the alternator, such as
an o/c diode.

Have you tried putting a DVM on the battery terminals? Anything above
12V implies the alternator is producing an output, even if not enough to
recharge the battery.

[meow...@care2.com]

On Thursday, November 1, 2012 3:39:32 PM UTC, Fredxx wrote:
> On 30/10/2012 19:01, ARW wrote:
> > tony sayer wrote:
> >> In article <k6p5nc$vmn$1...@dont-email.me>, ARW

> >> <adamwadsworth> scribeth thus
> >>> David WE Roberts wrote:
> >>>> "ARW" <adamwadsworth> wrote in message
> >>>> news:k6p42o$iuc$1...@dont-email.me...

> >> Sure the Alternator is duff, not just a simple fan belt loss of
> >> tension?...

> > Totally sure, it's whining like a posh bird who does not have tickets for
> > Ascot.

> The fact it's whining suggests it is creating some output. A red
> ignition light might be because of a problem in the alternator, such as
> an o/c diode.
> Have you tried putting a DVM on the battery terminals? Anything above
> 12V implies the alternator is producing an output, even if not enough to
> recharge the battery.

Make that 13.2v.


NT

[ARW]

Huge wrote:
> On 2012-10-31, ARW <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>

> > There was the millionaires daughter that I took to the ballet and
> > at the interval she asked when they were going to sing.
>

> Having loads of money is no indication of being cultured. And vice
> versa.

I forgot the other posh one. The US ambassadors daughter.

I would still marry her.

--
Adam

[Jim K]

On Nov 1, 6:19 pm, "ARW" <adamwadswo...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> Huge wrote:

> > On 2012-10-31, ARW <adamwadswo...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > There was the millionaires daughter that I took to the ballet and
> > > at the interval she asked when they were going to sing.
>
> > Having loads of money is no indication of being cultured. And vice
> > versa.
>
> I forgot the other posh one. The US ambassadors daughter.
>
> I would still marry her.

I bet you were really spoiling her ... with something ;>)

Jim K

[ARW]

She took me to salsa dance classes. I was crap at it.

--
Adam

[Tim Watts]

ARW wrote:

>
> She took me to salsa dance classes. I was crap at it.
>

I tried something like that off my own bat.

It looked fun, but I simply confirmed I have no rhythm at all (I could not
even master basic skip-steps at infants school in the "country-dancing"
lessons (<shiver>) and cannot discern the beat in anything other than
100+BPM techno. So I gave up and now resolutely get pissed at any occasion
where some fool has arranged dancing. If I get involved at least I will not
remember it :)


--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/

"It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent
moral busybodies."

[Sam Plusnet]

In article <afarjb...@mid.individual.net>,
johnwil...@btinternet.com says...

> Alternatively, try one of the cigarette lighter jump lead sets and one
> of the jump start batteries with a cigarette lighter socket built in.
>
>
I read somewhere that cigarette sockets are rated at 10 Amps (but
possibly fused at 15 Amp).

How much use can one of these gadgets be - without blowing the fuse
and/or melting the socket?


--
Sam

[bert]

In message <k6qdk5$8de$2...@speranza.aioe.org>, Bill Wright
<bi...@invalid.com> writes
>meow...@care2.com wrote:
>
>> Trucks with no brake servo became obsolete in the 1920s. Before then
>>drivers of large trucks had to be built like gorillas.
>
>My 1948 Morris Commercial and my 1956 Bedford ambulance didn't have
>power brakes or power steering. The Morris had a double width brake
>pedal so you could press on it with two feet.
>
>Bill
Series Land Rovers didn't have either. Replaced by the 90s in early 80s
--
bert

[bert]

In message <t02598d55q0pjo2hl...@4ax.com>, The Other Mike
<rootpa...@somewhereorother.com> writes

>On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 14:30:04 +0000, Grimly Curmudgeon
><gri...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 18:07:43 -0700 (PDT), meow...@care2.com wrote:
>>
>>>Hugely so. Nearly all cars have power brakes. With no vacuum for the
>>>servo you don't get roadworthy braking.
>>>
>>Cobblers. I suggest you get on a weight training course to build up
>>your puny muscles. All cars must have useable brakes in the event of
>>power assistance failure. Trouble is, we have bred a generation of
>>wimps who've never driven un-assisted vehicles and spout bollocks
>>about them.
>
>There is a big difference in the braking effort needed on a braking system with
>servo assist that has failed compared to one that never had it fitted in the
>first place.
>
>Similarly with power assisted steering, where the rack ratios are radically
>different to those that are not assisted.
>

And the steering wheel may be larger diameter.

>It's *nothing* to do with muscles it's all to do with the fundamental ratios
>engineered into the respective systems.
>

--

bert

[Fredxx]

I was thinking of battery discharge, where anything below 12.0V will
discharge the battery, anything above 13.2V will charge the battery up
to a point. Anything in between will see negligible battery charge or
discharge.

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

On Thu, 01 Nov 2012 14:34:25 +0000, The Other Mike
<rootpa...@somewhereorother.com> wrote:

>It's *nothing* to do with muscles it's all to do with the fundamental ratios
>engineered into the respective systems.

I know that.

[John Williamson]

Sam Plusnet wrote:
> In article <afarjb...@mid.individual.net>,
> johnwil...@btinternet.com says...
>
>> Alternatively, try one of the cigarette lighter jump lead sets and one
>> of the jump start batteries with a cigarette lighter socket built in.
>>
>>
> I read somewhere that cigarette sockets are rated at 10 Amps (but
> possibly fused at 15 Amp).
>

They vary from 10 to 20 amps. Cheap plugs may get warm at 5.

> How much use can one of these gadgets be - without blowing the fuse
> and/or melting the socket?
>
>

If you give them a few minutes, they can transfer enough charge to start
the engine using the "flat" battery. In this case, it would extend the
range by half an hour or so before both batteries were flat.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[Jules Richardson]

On Fri, 02 Nov 2012 01:28:28 +0000, John Williamson wrote:
>> I read somewhere that cigarette sockets are rated at 10 Amps (but
>> possibly fused at 15 Amp).
>>
> They vary from 10 to 20 amps. Cheap plugs may get warm at 5.
>
>> How much use can one of these gadgets be - without blowing the fuse
>> and/or melting the socket?
>>
> If you give them a few minutes, they can transfer enough charge to start
> the engine using the "flat" battery. In this case, it would extend the
> range by half an hour or so before both batteries were flat.

I'm vaguely surprised that it's possible on a modern vehicle - i.e. that
the control systems don't try to prevent a wayward device from feeding
power into the socket.

It'd be interesting to know how close things would be to a 10A limit if
providing power for the ECU, ignition, cooling fan motors, indicators,
instruments and brake lights (which is probably about the worst-case when
driving in clear weather during the day)

cheers

Jules

[The Other Mike]

Ferrero Rocher coated with Henderson's Relish

--