Saniflo rant

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GB

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Sep 28, 2021, 12:14:57 PMSep 28
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I've accepted a quote to replace a Saniflo, from a fitter on the Saniflo
website. Total cost quoted is £695 +VAT.

I can buy the new unit for £380 + VAT, so that means I am paying over
£300 + VAT for labour. That's not a bad rate for a job they expect to
get done in an hour.

They are also incredibly fussy about what they will do. For example,
there's some boxing in, and they have insisted that I remove it.

Leaving aside the question about why I don't DIY it, does this seem
excessive, or is it normal for a 'supply and fit' job?

I'm quite tempted to come out of retirement and start fitting these
things. :)


SH

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Sep 28, 2021, 12:29:22 PMSep 28
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GB

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Sep 28, 2021, 1:05:35 PMSep 28
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"Warning: people of a sensitive disposition might care to venture no
further.

Angus asked:

My recently installed Saniflo does not behave as described in the user
manual. On flushing the WC it's supposed to run continuously for about
15 seconds, mine pulses on-off 3 or 4 times for about 2-3 seconds
duration. Any ideas?

Peter replied:

Sell the house, failing that give it away, if that doesn't work pay
someone to take it or burn it down. To give you a clue - these ghastly
instruments of the Devil are French. Add the French and lavatorial
engineering - now see why I say get out while you can. Moreover this
particular Frenchman was a lunatic with strong Anglophobic tendencies
and a bad case of corrodible.

I am quite sure the designer was also an ex-submariner Frenchman who
missed the strangled screams of seamen who had got the valve sequence
wrong in the submarines toilet and just been rinsed down with a few
gallons of seawater (and the recently donated contents of the bowl).

They break down at the slightest opportunity. The only thing you can
actually guarantee about them is that they will break down - very
frequently. Basically the only way of maintaining the slightest
semblance of serviceability is to impose on pain of repair the same
rules as for a small yachts sea toilet - if it hasn't passed through you
it doesn't go in the bowl.

They have an interesting design. The motor has poor starting torque and
the macerator lots of tiny teeth. Ergo anything that has strands in it
catches on the teeth and stops the motor from starting. Things with
strands include anything with cotton wool (including cotton wool buds)
and anything with cloth. Females in particular must not be allowed
anywhere near these devices. If you were unfortunate enough to have the
added misery of a sink (oh dear - you were warned) then add hair,
strands from woolly pullovers and almost anything else that's at all
fibrous.

When they break (which they will - that's an absolute certainty) their
endearing characteristic is that you are left with a bowl full of
whatever which you have to empty back the way it came and more
importantly many feet of 40mm pipe still full of minced whatever. When
you disconnect the pipe I'll give you one guess where its going to go.
Repairing or unblocking them is the most thoroughly revolting job.

Now to get to specifics - the pulsing is a fault in either installation
or the pressure switch. Does it pulse with just the cold water tap
running from the sink? The way they work is a low pressure trip switch
switches on the motor when the small holding tank is full. This tank
remains partially full all the time. If its pulsing either the switch
has too low a hysteresis or water isn't getting into it fast enough. The
motor should remain on for a few seconds after everything has emptied so
that pulsing you are seeing shouldn't be happening.

As the failure rate of these diabolical things is worse than that of a
F104 Starfighter I'd suggest you get the installer back (preferably to
remove it forever). If it was installed by yourself then self
flagellation with a few lengths of barbed wire and a call to the Saniflo
people might be in order.

Angus asked:

Also, my system is a Sanitop with the outflow from a washbasin going
into the top of the unit. I find that running the tap for a few seconds
activates the Saniflo. Is there any way of adjusting the sensitivity of
it so that it will only run when a reasonable amount of water has gone
into the unit?

To which Peter replied:

No, but if it's oversensitive this might be related to the pulsing you
are seeing.

Angus:

I don't see why the washbasin water cant just bypass the cutter/pump
internally.

Peter:

Because these horrors are designed to be installed pumping upwards - the
raving idiot who designed them thought it would be pretty neat to have
something you could stick in a downstairs cloakroom and run the pipe
upwards to join the soil stack in the bathroom. If that's how your
installation goes cut out the selling the house bit - just burn it now.
When it fails there is 10ft of pressurised whatsit just waiting for that
final turn on the drainpipe.

The other reason the sink must go through the pump is that the outlet of
the thing is at some pressure. Connect the sink a bit downstream and
every time you pull the chain the contents of the loo make a pretty
little fountain out of the sink plughole (I've seen one plumbed like
that - the owner kept a sandbag in the sink on top of the plug).

Some models have an interesting feature - on the top is a reset switch,
under the top cover is a screwdriver slot on the top of the motor drive
shaft to allow you to clear the (frequent) blockages. However to get the
top cover open to get at the drive shaft to free it - you've guessed -
you have to disconnect the drain pipe.

How they can be called Saniflow when they are anything but sanitary (as
you will soon find out) and rarely flow is beyond me.

As I said - sell the house.

Peter Parry."

GB

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Sep 28, 2021, 1:15:53 PMSep 28
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On 28/09/2021 17:29, SH wrote:
Sadly, this whole issue is down to mother in law. She had the macerator
installed. Digging a new drain would be possible, but massively disruptive.

As to the 40 mm pipe going upwards, I'd be interested to know how to
vacuum out the whole thing? They must have designed it with a valve that
you can attach a wet and dry vacuum to? Surely? I mean, they must have ...


GB

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Sep 28, 2021, 1:20:11 PMSep 28
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On 28/09/2021 17:29, SH wrote:
"The pipe bending spring
Would anyone be able to explain and provide tips on how to use one to
get the desired effect for a first timer?

1. Buy tool.
2. Discover it has no instructions.
3. Buy DIY book on heating.
4. Read instructions.
5. Rip up old bedcover to make bending pads.
6. Lightly oil spring.
7. Discover it won't go into the pipe you cut with your nice new pipe
cutter, you have to use a hacksaw.
8. Insert in pipe.
9. Wipe up blood from cut caused by raw end of pipe using the flux rag.
10. Discover the flux really is acidic, scream a bit.
11. Bend as instructed.
12. Dislocate kneecap.
13. Push kneecap back in place.
14. Remember to bend a little too far and bend back a touch to ease
tension on spring.
15. Insert tool to rotate spring to remove it.
16. Pull on spring.
17. Knock over cup of tea, stand in flux tin.
18. Swear several times.
19. Tell (without moving teeth apart) wife/partner/neighbour/children
you know what you are doing.
20. Smash knuckles on wall as hand slips from pulling device.
21. Bang pipe on floor several times.
22. Saw off bent bit of pipe. Use vice, angle grinder, several mole
grips and welding torch to recover pipe bender.
23. Repeat steps 6 to 22 until the pain and loss of blood gets too much
or you run out of pipe.
24. Throw away now mangled pipe spring (or use as garden gate closer).
25. Buy a proper bending tool."

Andy Burns

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Sep 28, 2021, 1:33:41 PMSep 28
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GB wrote:

> I am paying over £300 + VAT for labour. That's not a bad rate for a job [...]

that involves dealing with a pressurised appliance full of someone else's shit.

Tim+

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Sep 28, 2021, 1:40:10 PMSep 28
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No worse than changing a nappy… ;-)

Tim

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Please don't feed the trolls

Tim+

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Sep 28, 2021, 1:40:10 PMSep 28
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GB <NOTso...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> I've accepted a quote to replace a Saniflo, from a fitter on the Saniflo
> website. Total cost quoted is £695 +VAT.

I think your mistake was going to the Saniflo website.

If it’s a straight swap the job should be a doodle. Even if there’s a bit
of repiping involved, solvent weld stuff is very easy to use.

If you don’t want to do it yourself find an independent plumber and make it
clear that it’s an exchange, not a new installation.

SH

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Sep 28, 2021, 1:55:12 PMSep 28
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Your wet and dry vacuum cleaner then fills up with liquidised poo....

How do you empty the hoover's tank without getting liquid poo all over
yourself?

Then the hoover will stink of poo for years!

S.

Owain Lastname

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Sep 28, 2021, 2:17:07 PMSep 28
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On Tuesday, 28 September 2021 at 18:15:53 UTC+1, GB wrote:
> Sadly, this whole issue is down to mother in law. She had the macerator
> installed. Digging a new drain would be possible, but massively disruptive.

Perhaps one of those mini excavators that can fit through doorways?

You only need to dig a trench about 2.7m long x 1.2m wide and a suitable depth to resolve the problem.

Owain



The Natural Philosopher

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Sep 28, 2021, 2:22:36 PMSep 28
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On 28/09/2021 18:40, Tim+ wrote:
> Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>> GB wrote:
>>
>>> I am paying over £300 + VAT for labour. That's not a bad rate for a job [...]
>>
>> that involves dealing with a pressurised appliance full of someone else's shit.
>>
>>
>
> No worse than changing a nappy… ;-)
>
> Tim
>
Nappys dont come precharged to 5 psi


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higher education positively fortifies it."

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GB

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Sep 28, 2021, 2:22:48 PMSep 28
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The Saniflo engineers have vacuums dedicated to this job.

I would empty mine into the drain inspection chamber, and, at the end of
the job take it to the dump.

GB

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Sep 28, 2021, 2:23:42 PMSep 28
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On 28/09/2021 18:40, Tim+ wrote:
I asked 4 local plumbers, and they all refused! :)


Tim+

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Sep 28, 2021, 3:21:39 PMSep 28
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The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 28/09/2021 18:40, Tim+ wrote:
>> Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>>> GB wrote:
>>>
>>>> I am paying over £300 + VAT for labour. That's not a bad rate for a job [...]
>>>
>>> that involves dealing with a pressurised appliance full of someone else's shit.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> No worse than changing a nappy… ;-)
>>
>> Tim
>>
> Nappys dont come precharged to 5 psi
>
>

It’s still only shit. Nothing to be overly squeamish about.

alan_m

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Sep 28, 2021, 4:22:27 PMSep 28
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On 28/09/2021 18:55, SH wrote:

> Then the hoover will stink of poo for years!

Just spray it with one of the janitorial products made by HG (or other
manufacturers) for public toilet or pet clean-ups.

https://hg.eu/uk/products/hg-eliminator-of-all-unpleasant-smells-at-source

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alan_m

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Sep 28, 2021, 4:24:53 PMSep 28
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On 28/09/2021 19:23, GB wrote:

>
> I asked 4 local plumbers, and they all refused! :)

They obviously know something that you don't.
£100 for the labour, £200 for the PPE :)

Nick Odell

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Sep 28, 2021, 4:27:08 PMSep 28
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On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 17:14:53 +0100, GB <NOTso...@microsoft.com>
wrote:
If that £300+ fitting cost includes free 24hr/365days per year
call-out to clean the shit out of it every time it breaks down then I
reckon you've got yourself a bargain. Otherwise, D-I-Y.


Nick

SH

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Sep 28, 2021, 5:09:49 PMSep 28
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On 28/09/2021 21:24, alan_m wrote:
> On 28/09/2021 19:23, GB wrote:
>
>>
>> I asked 4 local plumbers, and they all refused! :)
>
> They obviously know something that you don't.
> £100 for the labour, £200 for the PPE :)
>
>


You forgot the costs of the psychological treatment of the PTSD..... :-)

Brian Gaff (Sofa)

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Sep 29, 2021, 3:46:32 AMSep 29
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Well, I'd not know how hard they are to replace, but if you get the new unit
how hard can it be to get a more local plumber to fit it at a more
reasonable cost.
Brian

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Bob Eager

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Sep 29, 2021, 4:25:02 AMSep 29
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On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 08:46:26 +0100, Brian Gaff \(Sofa\) wrote:

> Well, I'd not know how hard they are to replace, but if you get the new
> unit how hard can it be to get a more local plumber to fit it at a more
> reasonable cost.

He says he's tried four plumbers and they have all refused.



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newshound

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Sep 29, 2021, 7:34:41 AMSep 29
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On 28/09/2021 18:55, SH wrote:

>
> Your wet and dry vacuum cleaner then fills up with liquidised poo....
>
> How do you empty the hoover's tank without getting liquid poo all over
> yourself?

You pour it into an inspection chamber (or even another loo).

Then rinse the "bucket" bit with a hose pipe over an inspection chamber,
and similarly the "wet" side with the cutoff valve

>
> Then the hoover will stink of poo for years!

Not in my experience. It does live in the workshop rather than the house.

>
> S.

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