Jigsaws ... Now there's a result then !

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Arfa Daily

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Jun 20, 2010, 11:55:21 AM6/20/10
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A while ago, I had a cry on here about how incredibly piss-poor the
performance was, of the expensive Black and Decker jigsaw that I bought to
replace my cheap as chips B&D that I had had for years. The new one couldn't
be made to cut a straight line in anything tougher than cardboard, if your
life depended on it. In the couple of years that I have had it, it has
caused me to bodge more jobs than I have in the rest of my entire (quite
long so far) life.

A few months back, my daughter bought her husband a Bosch jigsaw, and I have
hated him for owning it ever since ! On the couple of occasions that I've
had cause to use it, I have bleated loudly about how rubbish my B&D is in
comparison.

Well, today, it was apparently father's day. I had completely forgotten
this, so imagine my delight, when in came number one daughter, with a shiny
new Bosch jigsaw in her hand just for little old me ! What a result. I even
had cause to use it on today's job, and what a pleasure it is to handle. It
cut through the wood in a dead straight line - and I haven't even tried out
the laser guide on it yet - and was totally effortless to control. Deep joy,
as Stanley Unwin used to say. I know it's sad getting worked up about a
power tool, but I do so unashamedly. Bosch tools it is for me, from now on
:-)

Arfa

ARWadsworth

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Jun 20, 2010, 12:23:44 PM6/20/10
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"Arfa Daily" <arfa....@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:HRqTn.40229$OF3.7996@hurricane...


I know it's sad getting worked up about a
> power tool, but I do so unashamedly.

No, it is not sad.

Adam


Lobster

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Jun 20, 2010, 12:28:09 PM6/20/10
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Arfa Daily wrote:

> Well, today, it was apparently father's day. I had completely forgotten
> this, so imagine my delight, when in came number one daughter, with a
> shiny new Bosch jigsaw in her hand just for little old me ! What a
> result.

All right for some... I got a pair of Union Jack boxer shorts, size XL
(and I'm size M or maybe L)
:-(

David

PeterC

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Jun 20, 2010, 12:40:03 PM6/20/10
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Well, I hope to have the same pleasure on Tuesday! Got p'd off with the
Powercraft jigsaw (it needs a guide dog) wandering around and cutting
random slopes, so ordered a Makita 720W from Axminster (>£12 cheaper than
TS) as it gets good reviews.
With a loft to board out I just want something that works!

The Makit's here:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/pricing/INC/cid/FTPJ4T4M4PIWQGC09SA5RAJU17ARG3U2/product-Makita-4350FCT-Jigsaw-656297.htm
--
Peter.
2x4 - thick plank; 4x4 - two of 'em.

Malcolm

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Jun 20, 2010, 12:42:48 PM6/20/10
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I got a Round Tuit mug so I don't have that excuse any more

Malcolm

tony sayer

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Jun 20, 2010, 12:47:32 PM6/20/10
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In article <HRqTn.40229$OF3.7996@hurricane>, Arfa Daily
<arfa....@ntlworld.com> scribeth thus

Now you could advise all 'n sundry hereon about buying good quality
tools and what so they do?, buy a cheapie from Lidl or Adil or whatever
the pile 'em high floghouse is called this week and they never get to
have a good experience like your now having;))...
--
Tony Sayer



The Medway Handyman

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Jun 20, 2010, 2:24:23 PM6/20/10
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Its a jigsaw Jim, but not as we know it. You are in for a major treat :-)


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk


Owain

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Jun 20, 2010, 2:33:17 PM6/20/10
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On 20 June, 17:28, Lobster wrote:
> All right for some... I got a pair of Union Jack boxer shorts, size XL
> (and I'm size M or maybe L)
> :-(

Good excuse to eat some more pies then.

Purely as a courtesy so you can fit into your prezzie.

Owain


dennis@home

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Jun 20, 2010, 3:10:25 PM6/20/10
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"tony sayer" <to...@bancom.co.uk> wrote in message
news:lagaILAk...@bancom.co.uk...

> Now you could advise all 'n sundry hereon about buying good quality
> tools and what so they do?, buy a cheapie from Lidl or Adil or whatever
> the pile 'em high floghouse is called this week and they never get to
> have a good experience like your now having;))...

He could always buy the correct power tool for the job..
jigsaws aren't for cutting straight lines..
that's what a circular saw is for.
I would never use my jigsaw for cutting straight stuff its just way too
slow.
If you haven't used a circular saw for straight cuts you just don't know
what you are missing.

Mungo "Two Sheds" Toadfoot

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Jun 20, 2010, 3:55:40 PM6/20/10
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"Arfa Daily" <arfa....@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:HRqTn.40229$OF3.7996@hurricane...
>>
> Well, today, it was apparently father's day. I had completely forgotten
> this, so imagine my delight, when in came number one daughter, with a
> shiny new Bosch jigsaw in her hand just for little old me !

I got two cards and a box of chocs. Nice chocs, but even so...

Must've done something wrong somewhere...

Si


Roger Mills

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Jun 20, 2010, 4:05:07 PM6/20/10
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So what about cutting a rectangular aperture for a hob or inset sink?
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

Mungo "Two Sheds" Toadfoot

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Jun 20, 2010, 4:07:56 PM6/20/10
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"Roger Mills" <watt....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:887ajj...@mid.individual.net...

> On 20/06/2010 20:10, dennis@home wrote:
>>
>>
>> "tony sayer" <to...@bancom.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:lagaILAk...@bancom.co.uk...
>>
>>> Now you could advise all 'n sundry hereon about buying good quality
>>> tools and what so they do?, buy a cheapie from Lidl or Adil or whatever
>>> the pile 'em high floghouse is called this week and they never get to
>>> have a good experience like your now having;))...
>>
>> He could always buy the correct power tool for the job..
>> jigsaws aren't for cutting straight lines..
>> that's what a circular saw is for.
>> I would never use my jigsaw for cutting straight stuff its just way too
>> slow.
>> If you haven't used a circular saw for straight cuts you just don't know
>> what you are missing.
>
>
> So what about cutting a rectangular aperture for a hob or inset sink?

Angle grinder.

Si


Adrian C

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Jun 20, 2010, 4:24:29 PM6/20/10
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On 20/06/2010 21:07, Mungo "Two Sheds" Toadfoot wrote:
>>
>>
>> So what about cutting a rectangular aperture for a hob or inset sink?
>
> Angle grinder.
>

I'm disappointed.

The d-i-y group mention of the 'plasma cutter' or 'thermal lance' has
been sorely lacking over the last year or so. This year, the 2010
recommended tool of choice, the 'pressure washer' also doesn't even get
a look in with this particular situation - unless somehow seriously
upgraded to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_jet_cutter

Voting will be soon be open for the 2011 tool of choice. C'mon chaps.
It's going to be the lowly 'jigsaw' or 'hacksaw' unless some forthright
action is taken. :-(

Pst.... /plasma cutter/, get *that* in your Xmas list :-) ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_cutting

"However, modern plasma torches are becoming cheaper, and now are within
the price range of many hobbyists"

--
Adrian C

Grimly Curmudgeon

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Jun 20, 2010, 4:31:33 PM6/20/10
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We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Lobster
<davidlobs...@hotmail.com> saying something like:

>All right for some... I got a pair of Union Jack boxer shorts, size XL
>(and I'm size M or maybe L)
>:-(

"You'll grow into them."

peter

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Jun 20, 2010, 4:51:21 PM6/20/10
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On Jun 20, 9:31 pm, Grimly Curmudgeon <grimly4REM...@REMOVEgmail.com>
wrote:

> We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
> drugs began to take hold. I remember Lobster
> <davidlobsterpot...@hotmail.com> saying something like:

>
> >All right for some... I got a pair of Union Jack boxer shorts, size XL
> >(and I'm size M or maybe L)
> >:-(
>
> "You'll grow into them."

Jacket potato with tuna mayonnaise. Just the job after footie

Dave Liquorice

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Jun 20, 2010, 4:53:05 PM6/20/10
to
On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 20:55:40 +0100, Mungo \"Two Sheds\" Toadfoot
wrote:

> I got two cards and a box of chocs. Nice chocs, but even so...

One card, hand drawn by No.1 Daughter. Also chocs, a chocolate tool
set; saw, hammer, spanner & screw driver.

--
Cheers
Dave.

brass monkey

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Jun 20, 2010, 5:02:06 PM6/20/10
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"Mungo "Two Sheds" Toadfoot" <eastREM...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:sqGdnYKFYdmk74PR...@brightview.co.uk...

A card would do, still waiting, bloody kids.


dennis@home

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Jun 20, 2010, 5:07:32 PM6/20/10
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"Roger Mills" <watt....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:887ajj...@mid.individual.net...

> On 20/06/2010 20:10, dennis@home wrote:
>>
>>
>> "tony sayer" <to...@bancom.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:lagaILAk...@bancom.co.uk...
>>
>>> Now you could advise all 'n sundry hereon about buying good quality
>>> tools and what so they do?, buy a cheapie from Lidl or Adil or whatever
>>> the pile 'em high floghouse is called this week and they never get to
>>> have a good experience like your now having;))...
>>
>> He could always buy the correct power tool for the job..
>> jigsaws aren't for cutting straight lines..
>> that's what a circular saw is for.
>> I would never use my jigsaw for cutting straight stuff its just way too
>> slow.
>> If you haven't used a circular saw for straight cuts you just don't know
>> what you are missing.
>
>
> So what about cutting a rectangular aperture for a hob or inset sink?

Circ saw + about a minute with a hand saw..

PeterC

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Jun 20, 2010, 5:32:24 PM6/20/10
to
On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 19:24:23 +0100, The Medway Handyman wrote:

>> Well, I hope to have the same pleasure on Tuesday! Got p'd off with
>> the Powercraft jigsaw (it needs a guide dog) wandering around and
>> cutting random slopes, so ordered a Makita 720W from Axminster (>£12
>> cheaper than TS) as it gets good reviews.
>
> Its a jigsaw Jim, but not as we know it. You are in for a major treat :-)

:-)) I've stopped work on the loft until the new jigsaw arrives, so that I
can have fun!
The cheapo was OK for quick jobs where just a rough cut was needed, but a
handsaw is much better!
Circular saw next, methinks.

robgraham

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Jun 20, 2010, 5:53:50 PM6/20/10
to

>
> Now you could advise all 'n sundry hereon about buying good quality
> tools and what so they do?, buy a cheapie from Lidl or Adil or whatever
> the pile 'em high floghouse is called this week and they never get to
> have a good experience like your now having;))...
> --
> Tony Sayer

I have to totally disagree with you, and I have seen mention of a
number of other people who would do so too. Unfortunately I can't
remember if my jigsaw is Lidl or Aldi, but it is a dream to use -
powerful, solid, accurate, etc, etc; might have been as much as
£19.99. It is a always a great experience to use and having suffered
the B & D blues and been totally put off using jigsaws, I now look
forward to finding reason to use it.

Rob

Andy Dingley

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Jun 20, 2010, 6:21:56 PM6/20/10
to
On Jun 20, 8:10 pm, "dennis@home" <den...@killspam.kicks-ass.net>
wrote:

> He could always buy the correct power tool for the job..
> jigsaws aren't for cutting straight lines..

That, Dennis, is because yours came from Poundland

Andy Dingley

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Jun 20, 2010, 6:23:49 PM6/20/10
to
On Jun 20, 9:24 pm, Adrian C <em...@here.invalid> wrote:

> The d-i-y group mention of the 'plasma cutter' or 'thermal lance' has
> been sorely lacking over the last year or so. This year, the 2010
> recommended tool of choice, the 'pressure washer' also doesn't even get
> a look in with this particular situation - unless somehow seriously
> upgraded tohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_jet_cutter

Why would I need either a plasma cutter or a water jet cutter?

They're expensive, and I've got friends with both of them 8-)

Toy of choice these days is one of the several CNC mills between us.
I'd have a Cupcake 3D printer too, if only they'd get their finger out
and ship it.

The Medway Handyman

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Jun 20, 2010, 6:44:34 PM6/20/10
to
dennis@home wrote:
> "Roger Mills" <watt....@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:887ajj...@mid.individual.net...
>> On 20/06/2010 20:10, dennis@home wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> "tony sayer" <to...@bancom.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:lagaILAk...@bancom.co.uk...
>>>
>>>> Now you could advise all 'n sundry hereon about buying good quality
>>>> tools and what so they do?, buy a cheapie from Lidl or Adil or
>>>> whatever the pile 'em high floghouse is called this week and they
>>>> never get to have a good experience like your now having;))...
>>>
>>> He could always buy the correct power tool for the job..
>>> jigsaws aren't for cutting straight lines..
>>> that's what a circular saw is for.
>>> I would never use my jigsaw for cutting straight stuff its just way
>>> too slow.

Then you don't have a decent jigsaw. With the right blade the Makita is
almost as fast.

>>> If you haven't used a circular saw for straight cuts you just don't
>>> know what you are missing.

I'd agree in general, but for things like rectangular cutouts the decent
jigsaw is the tool.

Jobs like boarding lofts or laminate floor you will need to make mostly
straight cuts but also cut outs & curves - jigsaw will do the lot
efficiently.

>> So what about cutting a rectangular aperture for a hob or inset sink?
>
> Circ saw + about a minute with a hand saw..

Time you have done that & buggered about a decent jigsaw would have the job
done.

dennis@home

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Jun 20, 2010, 6:50:26 PM6/20/10
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"Andy Dingley" <din...@codesmiths.com> wrote in message
news:c39bb747-b098-4a77...@h13g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...

Unlikely, I don't have one and have never needed one.

John Rumm

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Jun 20, 2010, 6:54:13 PM6/20/10
to
On 20/06/2010 20:10, dennis@home wrote:
>
>
> "tony sayer" <to...@bancom.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:lagaILAk...@bancom.co.uk...
>
>> Now you could advise all 'n sundry hereon about buying good quality
>> tools and what so they do?, buy a cheapie from Lidl or Adil or whatever
>> the pile 'em high floghouse is called this week and they never get to
>> have a good experience like your now having;))...
>
> He could always buy the correct power tool for the job..
> jigsaws aren't for cutting straight lines..

You have obviously never used a proper one. They can cut straight lines
just fine.

> that's what a circular saw is for.
> I would never use my jigsaw for cutting straight stuff its just way too
> slow.

A decent pendulum action one will lop then end of a 8x2" in 5 seconds.

> If you haven't used a circular saw for straight cuts you just don't know
> what you are missing.

CS is fine and worth having, however some jobs are easier with the
smaller, lighter, jigsaw which can safely be used in one hand.


--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

John Rumm

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Jun 20, 2010, 6:58:00 PM6/20/10
to
On 20/06/2010 22:53, robgraham wrote:
>
>>
>> Now you could advise all 'n sundry hereon about buying good quality
>> tools and what so they do?, buy a cheapie from Lidl or Adil or whatever
>> the pile 'em high floghouse is called this week and they never get to
>> have a good experience like your now having;))...
>> --
>> Tony Sayer
>
> I have to totally disagree with you, and I have seen mention of a
> number of other people who would do so too. Unfortunately I can't
> remember if my jigsaw is Lidl or Aldi, but it is a dream to use -
> powerful, solid, accurate, etc, etc; might have been as much as
> £19.99. It is a always a great experience to use and having suffered
> the B& D blues and been totally put off using jigsaws, I now look

> forward to finding reason to use it.

I don't know which of them flog it, but I have always thought the
Parkside branded one looked a good deal better than many. It appears to
have a proper cast sole plate for one. It would be interesting to try
one in comparison.

Nutkey

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Jun 20, 2010, 7:29:33 PM6/20/10
to

> Jobs like boarding lofts or laminate floor you will need to make mostly
> straight cuts but also cut outs & curves - jigsaw will do the lot
> efficiently.

and without spewing the sawdust all over the room.

Arfa Daily

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Jun 20, 2010, 8:18:46 PM6/20/10
to

"PeterC" <giraffe...@homecall.co.uk> wrote in message
news:j6wpyrabbjas.3i4hgok24d36$.dlg@40tude.net...


Interestingly, although I have absolutely nothing good to say about my B&D
jigsaw, my B&D 1200 watt circular saw is an excellent performer, and does
exactly what it says on the can. Funny how they can make one tool that's
very good for the money, and another that is expensive junk !

Arfa

Arfa Daily

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Jun 20, 2010, 8:22:50 PM6/20/10
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"dennis@home" <den...@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote in message
news:hvlp32$j24$1...@news.datemas.de...

Neither is a jigsaw for cutting a wavy wandering line, no matter what shape
that line is.

I of course use a circular saw for straight cuts where appropriate, but try
cutting the straight bits of a sink cutout in a worktop with a circular saw
...

Arfa

dennis@home

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Jun 21, 2010, 2:56:34 AM6/21/10
to

"John Rumm" <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote in message
news:hpmdnUUyXtSfAYPR...@brightview.co.uk...


> On 20/06/2010 20:10, dennis@home wrote:
>>
>>
>> "tony sayer" <to...@bancom.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:lagaILAk...@bancom.co.uk...
>>
>>> Now you could advise all 'n sundry hereon about buying good quality
>>> tools and what so they do?, buy a cheapie from Lidl or Adil or whatever
>>> the pile 'em high floghouse is called this week and they never get to
>>> have a good experience like your now having;))...
>>
>> He could always buy the correct power tool for the job..
>> jigsaws aren't for cutting straight lines..
>
> You have obviously never used a proper one. They can cut straight lines
> just fine.

I know they can, even the cheap ones if you fit a better blade, they are
slow and noisy and don't collect the dust well.

>
>> that's what a circular saw is for.
>> I would never use my jigsaw for cutting straight stuff its just way too
>> slow.
>
> A decent pendulum action one will lop then end of a 8x2" in 5 seconds.

Don't exaggerate, my CSMS will do it quicker but no reciprocating saw is
going to be that quick.

>
>> If you haven't used a circular saw for straight cuts you just don't know
>> what you are missing.
>
> CS is fine and worth having, however some jobs are easier with the
> smaller, lighter, jigsaw which can safely be used in one hand.

As long as you remember not to put the other hand in the wrong place.
A circular saw held properly is safer for the operator.

dennis@home

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Jun 21, 2010, 2:59:37 AM6/21/10
to

"Arfa Daily" <arfa....@ntlworld.com> wrote in message

news:thyTn.35$sD7.11@hurricane...


> I of course use a circular saw for straight cuts where appropriate, but
> try cutting the straight bits of a sink cutout in a worktop with a
> circular saw

I do.

TheOldFellow

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Jun 21, 2010, 4:33:15 AM6/21/10
to

Agree completely. B&D have always been very variable. I have a D4
router that is wonderful - they were made in the 1970's I think, I
inherited this one, and it is my most used hand power tool after the
Makita palm sander. But I long ago sent the B&D jigglysaw to the tip,
the only good thing you could say about it was that the blade went
vaguely up and down a lot.

R.

Andy Dingley

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Jun 21, 2010, 4:48:40 AM6/21/10
to
On 20 June, 23:50, "dennis@home" <den...@killspam.kicks-ass.net>
wrote:

> >> He could always buy the correct power tool for the job..
> >> jigsaws aren't for cutting straight lines..
>
> > That, Dennis, is because yours came from Poundland
>
> Unlikely, I don't have one and have never needed one.

So you don't even have one, but you'll gob off about how useless they
are.

Classic Dennis...

Arfa Daily

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Jun 21, 2010, 4:49:05 AM6/21/10
to

"TheOldFellow" <theold...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ss-dnaWcCOxWvoLR...@pipex.net...

Yes, very well put

Arfa

Andy Dingley

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Jun 21, 2010, 4:49:47 AM6/21/10
to
On 21 June, 07:56, "dennis@home" <den...@killspam.kicks-ass.net>
wrote:

> > You have obviously never used a proper one. They can cut straight lines
> > just fine.
>
> I know they can, even the cheap ones if you fit a better blade, they are
> slow and noisy and don't collect the dust well.

Bollocks Dennis. No matter what blade you fit, you'll not fix a cheap
jigsaw with a case of the shakes.

Arfa Daily

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Jun 21, 2010, 4:50:18 AM6/21/10
to

"dennis@home" <den...@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote in message

news:hvn2kp$7ef$1...@news.datemas.de...

Well now, there's a surprise ...

Arfa

Andy Dingley

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Jun 21, 2010, 4:51:18 AM6/21/10
to
On 21 June, 01:22, "Arfa Daily" <arfa.da...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

> I of course use a circular saw for straight cuts where appropriate, but try
> cutting the straight bits of a sink cutout in a worktop with a circular saw

Festo plunge saw will almost do it, but the price of that makes a good
jigsaw look cheap.

Come to think of it, there's not much price difference between my mid-
size circular saw (Makita 190mm) and my good jigsaw (Bosch 135).

Andy Dingley

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Jun 21, 2010, 4:52:54 AM6/21/10
to
On 21 June, 07:59, "dennis@home" <den...@killspam.kicks-ass.net>
wrote:

> > I of course use a circular saw for straight cuts where appropriate, but
> > try cutting the straight bits of a sink cutout in a worktop with a
> > circular saw
>
> I do.

Bollocks, Dennis. No-one except a halfwit fits a second worktop sink
without first acquiring a jigsaw.

Which doesn't actually invalidate your claim.

tony sayer

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Jun 21, 2010, 5:06:59 AM6/21/10
to
In article <803dcdc0-4452-4038...@u7g2000yqm.googlegroups
.com>, robgraham <robkg...@btinternet.com> scribeth thus

Lucky you then .. so what make is this?..
--
Tony Sayer

John Rumm

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Jun 21, 2010, 5:40:28 AM6/21/10
to
On 21/06/2010 07:56, dennis@home wrote:
>
>
> "John Rumm" <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote in message
> news:hpmdnUUyXtSfAYPR...@brightview.co.uk...
>> On 20/06/2010 20:10, dennis@home wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> "tony sayer" <to...@bancom.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:lagaILAk...@bancom.co.uk...
>>>
>>>> Now you could advise all 'n sundry hereon about buying good quality
>>>> tools and what so they do?, buy a cheapie from Lidl or Adil or whatever
>>>> the pile 'em high floghouse is called this week and they never get to
>>>> have a good experience like your now having;))...
>>>
>>> He could always buy the correct power tool for the job..
>>> jigsaws aren't for cutting straight lines..
>>
>> You have obviously never used a proper one. They can cut straight
>> lines just fine.
>
> I know they can, even the cheap ones if you fit a better blade, they are
> slow and noisy and don't collect the dust well.

A better blade will not fix a crap jigsaw. Good jigsaws are also fast
and smooth and far less noisy than a circular saw.


>>> that's what a circular saw is for.
>>> I would never use my jigsaw for cutting straight stuff its just way too
>>> slow.
>>
>> A decent pendulum action one will lop then end of a 8x2" in 5 seconds.
>
> Don't exaggerate, my CSMS will do it quicker but no reciprocating saw is
> going to be that quick.

No exaggeration required. An aggressive blade a full pendulum action
will rip through cross cuts on softwood at a surprising rate.

>>> If you haven't used a circular saw for straight cuts you just don't know
>>> what you are missing.
>>
>> CS is fine and worth having, however some jobs are easier with the
>> smaller, lighter, jigsaw which can safely be used in one hand.
>
> As long as you remember not to put the other hand in the wrong place.
> A circular saw held properly is safer for the operator.

Held properly means with both hands (on a 7" saw) - that does not leave
one free for holding the work. Hence why the jigsaw is better in some
circumstances.

John Rumm

unread,
Jun 21, 2010, 6:05:48 AM6/21/10
to
On 21/06/2010 10:40, John Rumm wrote:

>>>> I would never use my jigsaw for cutting straight stuff its just way too
>>>> slow.
>>>
>>> A decent pendulum action one will lop then end of a 8x2" in 5 seconds.
>>
>> Don't exaggerate, my CSMS will do it quicker but no reciprocating saw is
>> going to be that quick.
>
> No exaggeration required. An aggressive blade a full pendulum action
> will rip through cross cuts on softwood at a surprising rate.

(apologies for replying to my own post)

For anyone who needs to see to believe, watch the last 10 secs of this
video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBrXq_BcDLs

A decent jig saw cutting 50mm worktop style laminated chipboard (which
is a good deal slower and harder to cut than softwood). If you listen to
the motor load for timing cues, it takes about 10 secs from the start of
cut to the end, and the cut length is probably about 8". You will also
note that the cut edge is square.

robgraham

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Jun 21, 2010, 6:39:32 AM6/21/10
to
On 21 June, 10:06, tony sayer <t...@bancom.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <803dcdc0-4452-4038-87cd-685a809b7...@u7g2000yqm.googlegroups
> .com>, robgraham <robkgra...@btinternet.com> scribeth thus

Parkside, which means it's Aldis. For a start it 4kg against the B &
D (KS656) at <3kg, it's 700w against 450 and the whole frame is
cast.

Nice tool - trouble is that it's now a couple of years old and there's
no guarantee that Aldi's next offering will be the same. But that's
the gamble element of buying there, but the price is usually
sufficiently low that for the couple of perhaps not-so-good buys,
you'll get one excellent one.

I did a house rebuild with the tools of the '70's. How much easier it
would have been today and it would have been interesting whether
'professional' grade tools would have really been necessary.
Rob

PeterC

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Jun 21, 2010, 7:23:47 AM6/21/10
to
On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 11:05:48 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

> On 21/06/2010 10:40, John Rumm wrote:
>
>>>>> I would never use my jigsaw for cutting straight stuff its just way too
>>>>> slow.
>>>>
>>>> A decent pendulum action one will lop then end of a 8x2" in 5 seconds.
>>>
>>> Don't exaggerate, my CSMS will do it quicker but no reciprocating saw is
>>> going to be that quick.
>>
>> No exaggeration required. An aggressive blade a full pendulum action
>> will rip through cross cuts on softwood at a surprising rate.
>
> (apologies for replying to my own post)
>
> For anyone who needs to see to believe, watch the last 10 secs of this
> video:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBrXq_BcDLs
>
> A decent jig saw cutting 50mm worktop style laminated chipboard (which
> is a good deal slower and harder to cut than softwood). If you listen to
> the motor load for timing cues, it takes about 10 secs from the start of
> cut to the end, and the cut length is probably about 8". You will also
> note that the cut edge is square.

That's the model I've ordered :-) By 'eck, it's quiet and smooth and fast
cf the Powercraft!
If the delivery is early enough tomorrow I can get a lot done. The main
regular bits are in so just the interesting cuts to do.

dennis@home

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Jun 21, 2010, 8:29:45 AM6/21/10
to

"Andy Dingley" <din...@codesmiths.com> wrote in message

news:efc9ebd1-1f9f-4750...@s9g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...

I didn't say I hadn't used one.
They are useless.
Nearly everything can be done more easily with something else.
>
> Classic Dennis...

Classic andy assumes that because someone doesn't own a piece of sh!t like a
jigsaw they haven't used one.
I gave mine away ages ago when I couldn't find anything I wanted to use it
for.

dennis@home

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Jun 21, 2010, 8:46:15 AM6/21/10
to

"John Rumm" <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote in message

news:PeWdnfBfVrHkroLR...@brightview.co.uk...


> On 21/06/2010 07:56, dennis@home wrote:
>>
>>
>> "John Rumm" <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote in message
>> news:hpmdnUUyXtSfAYPR...@brightview.co.uk...
>>> On 20/06/2010 20:10, dennis@home wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "tony sayer" <to...@bancom.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>> news:lagaILAk...@bancom.co.uk...
>>>>
>>>>> Now you could advise all 'n sundry hereon about buying good quality
>>>>> tools and what so they do?, buy a cheapie from Lidl or Adil or
>>>>> whatever
>>>>> the pile 'em high floghouse is called this week and they never get to
>>>>> have a good experience like your now having;))...
>>>>
>>>> He could always buy the correct power tool for the job..
>>>> jigsaws aren't for cutting straight lines..
>>>
>>> You have obviously never used a proper one. They can cut straight
>>> lines just fine.
>>
>> I know they can, even the cheap ones if you fit a better blade, they are
>> slow and noisy and don't collect the dust well.
>
> A better blade will not fix a crap jigsaw. Good jigsaws are also fast and
> smooth and far less noisy than a circular saw.

I don't think it will fix a "good" jigsaw either, cutting straight isn't
fixed.

Lets face it.. a jigsaw is just a powered pad saw and doesn't cut any
better, just with less exercise.


>
>
>>>> that's what a circular saw is for.
>>>> I would never use my jigsaw for cutting straight stuff its just way too
>>>> slow.
>>>
>>> A decent pendulum action one will lop then end of a 8x2" in 5 seconds.
>>
>> Don't exaggerate, my CSMS will do it quicker but no reciprocating saw is
>> going to be that quick.
>
> No exaggeration required. An aggressive blade a full pendulum action will
> rip through cross cuts on softwood at a surprising rate.

A surprisingly exaggerated rate.
IME jigsaws don't cut much faster than a hand saw and that takes about 35
seconds to cut 8x2.

>
>>>> If you haven't used a circular saw for straight cuts you just don't
>>>> know
>>>> what you are missing.
>>>
>>> CS is fine and worth having, however some jobs are easier with the
>>> smaller, lighter, jigsaw which can safely be used in one hand.
>>
>> As long as you remember not to put the other hand in the wrong place.
>> A circular saw held properly is safer for the operator.
>
> Held properly means with both hands (on a 7" saw) - that does not leave
> one free for holding the work. Hence why the jigsaw is better in some
> circumstances.

I have yet to find a job you couldn't clamp rather than hand hold.

John Rumm

unread,
Jun 21, 2010, 10:44:26 AM6/21/10
to
On 21/06/2010 13:46, dennis@home wrote:

> IME jigsaws don't cut much faster than a hand saw and that takes about
> 35 seconds to cut 8x2.

Which shows your experience is of the typical DIY shed jigsaw and
nothing more. Kind of makes this discussion pointless.

Have a look at the video link I posted to see what you have been missing.

The Medway Handyman

unread,
Jun 21, 2010, 1:34:50 PM6/21/10
to

I think that applies to all makes. Even a cheapo circular saw works pretty
well, but you have to pay top money for a decent jigsaw.

The Medway Handyman

unread,
Jun 21, 2010, 1:41:48 PM6/21/10
to
John Rumm wrote:
> On 21/06/2010 13:46, dennis@home wrote:
>
>> IME jigsaws don't cut much faster than a hand saw and that takes
>> about 35 seconds to cut 8x2.
>
> Which shows your experience is of the typical DIY shed jigsaw and
> nothing more. Kind of makes this discussion pointless.
>
> Have a look at the video link I posted to see what you have been
> missing.

I should add that the video isn't doctored at all, I have that model & they
really do cut that well.

Jules Richardson

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Jun 21, 2010, 1:52:34 PM6/21/10
to
On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 03:33:15 -0500, TheOldFellow wrote:
> Agree completely. B&D have always been very variable.

Seconded. I had a cheapo B&D jigsaw back in Blighty that did suprisingly
well for itself. Then I bought a cheapo B&D when I moved to the US, and
the thing is total and utter crud (I still have it but only use it when I
need to make quick, crappy cuts on something and it happens to be within
arms reach - otherwise I would have given it some form of interesting
death a long time ago).

Maybe it's an age thing, and the "old + cheap" ones are vastly superior
to the "new + cheap" ones (certainly the more recent US one had plastic
components for the sole plate's bevel - which naturally wore out within a
few months; forget making a 90 degree cut with the thing!).

cheers

Jules

Jules Richardson

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Jun 21, 2010, 1:54:18 PM6/21/10
to
On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 15:23:49 -0700, Andy Dingley wrote:
> Toy of choice these days is one of the several CNC mills between us. I'd
> have a Cupcake 3D printer too, if only they'd get their finger out and
> ship it.

Mmmm, cupcakes...

*salivates*

Jules Richardson

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Jun 21, 2010, 1:58:14 PM6/21/10
to
On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 13:29:45 +0100, dennis@home wrote:
>> So you don't even have one, but you'll gob off about how useless they
>> are.
>
> I didn't say I hadn't used one.
> They are useless.
> Nearly everything can be done more easily with something else.

Actually, I would be tempted to agree with that - but "nearly" is the
important part; the number of DIY jobs that benefit from power tools is
vast, so "nearly" still covers quite a few of them.

dennis@home

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Jun 21, 2010, 3:02:08 PM6/21/10
to

"John Rumm" <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote in message

news:dv6dndcOkaEr54LR...@brightview.co.uk...


> On 21/06/2010 13:46, dennis@home wrote:
>
>> IME jigsaws don't cut much faster than a hand saw and that takes about
>> 35 seconds to cut 8x2.
>
> Which shows your experience is of the typical DIY shed jigsaw and nothing
> more. Kind of makes this discussion pointless.
>
> Have a look at the video link I posted to see what you have been missing.

I have looked and I don't think the video is very good.
They don't attempt to follow a line but just shove it about at random in
what looks like a low density board not a high density board (it has big
chips). I would say its not very informative from a product point of view.

Jules Richardson

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Jun 21, 2010, 3:16:59 PM6/21/10
to
On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 21:53:05 +0100, Dave Liquorice wrote:
> a chocolate tool set;

But no bleedin' angle grinder or pressure washer!? ;)

John Rumm

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Jun 21, 2010, 8:54:13 PM6/21/10
to
On 21/06/2010 20:02, dennis@home wrote:
>
>
> "John Rumm" <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote in message
> news:dv6dndcOkaEr54LR...@brightview.co.uk...
>> On 21/06/2010 13:46, dennis@home wrote:
>>
>>> IME jigsaws don't cut much faster than a hand saw and that takes about
>>> 35 seconds to cut 8x2.
>>
>> Which shows your experience is of the typical DIY shed jigsaw and
>> nothing more. Kind of makes this discussion pointless.
>>
>> Have a look at the video link I posted to see what you have been missing.
>
> I have looked and I don't think the video is very good.
> They don't attempt to follow a line but just shove it about at random in
> what looks like a low density board not a high density board (it has big

Shifting argument again Dennis?

I thought we were talking about the speed of cut, not about following a
line. In case you had not appreciated, it will cut at least that fast in
a straight line as well.

> chips). I would say its not very informative from a product point of view.

Well the material looks like a lump of worktop to me. I doubt there is a
worktop chipboard out there that is kind to saws, or for that matter a
particularly low density.

However its a moot point, since I have a model similar to the saw
demonstrated, so you can take my word for it that it can cross cut
softwood faster than the chipboard cut in the demo - and far in excess
of what can be achieved with a handsaw. It will also cut with a very
high finish quality (although slower) if required. It cuts straight and
square. Runs very smoothly and with practically no vibration. Like the
blue bodied Bosch GST range of jigsaws it is simply in a different class
from the jigsaws most people have used and base their expectations on,
yourself included evidently.

dennis@home

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Jun 22, 2010, 2:48:22 AM6/22/10
to

"John Rumm" <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote in message

news:TpydnbBvtsw9lL3R...@brightview.co.uk...


> On 21/06/2010 20:02, dennis@home wrote:
>>
>>
>> "John Rumm" <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote in message
>> news:dv6dndcOkaEr54LR...@brightview.co.uk...
>>> On 21/06/2010 13:46, dennis@home wrote:
>>>
>>>> IME jigsaws don't cut much faster than a hand saw and that takes about
>>>> 35 seconds to cut 8x2.
>>>
>>> Which shows your experience is of the typical DIY shed jigsaw and
>>> nothing more. Kind of makes this discussion pointless.
>>>
>>> Have a look at the video link I posted to see what you have been
>>> missing.
>>
>> I have looked and I don't think the video is very good.
>> They don't attempt to follow a line but just shove it about at random in
>> what looks like a low density board not a high density board (it has big
>
> Shifting argument again Dennis?

You introduced the video.
If you don't want me to comment on it don't introduce it.

John Rumm

unread,
Jun 22, 2010, 4:35:48 AM6/22/10
to
On 22/06/2010 07:48, dennis@home wrote:
>
>
> "John Rumm" <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote in message
> news:TpydnbBvtsw9lL3R...@brightview.co.uk...
>> On 21/06/2010 20:02, dennis@home wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> "John Rumm" <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote in message
>>> news:dv6dndcOkaEr54LR...@brightview.co.uk...
>>>> On 21/06/2010 13:46, dennis@home wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> IME jigsaws don't cut much faster than a hand saw and that takes about
>>>>> 35 seconds to cut 8x2.
>>>>
>>>> Which shows your experience is of the typical DIY shed jigsaw and
>>>> nothing more. Kind of makes this discussion pointless.
>>>>
>>>> Have a look at the video link I posted to see what you have been
>>>> missing.
>>>
>>> I have looked and I don't think the video is very good.
>>> They don't attempt to follow a line but just shove it about at random in
>>> what looks like a low density board not a high density board (it has big
>>
>> Shifting argument again Dennis?
>
> You introduced the video.

To demonstrate your claims of 35 seconds to make an 8" cut were complete
cobblers. Job done.

> If you don't want me to comment on it don't introduce it.

Comment all you like. However since you by your own admission have only
used a crap jigsaw, and believe them to be useless, your comments are of
limited interest or relevance.

dennis@home

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Jun 22, 2010, 5:09:26 AM6/22/10
to

"John Rumm" <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote in message

news:gqudnd44K6JS6L3R...@brightview.co.uk...


>> You introduced the video.
>
> To demonstrate your claims of 35 seconds to make an 8" cut were complete
> cobblers. Job done.

But you haven't done any such thing.
You have shown a video where a cut was made in about twice the time you said
it took and in an unknown material.


>> If you don't want me to comment on it don't introduce it.
>
> Comment all you like. However since you by your own admission have only
> used a crap jigsaw, and believe them to be useless, your comments are of
> limited interest or relevance.

You have no idea what jigsaws I have used other than the fact I think they
are cr@p.
Even I don't know what some of them as I didn't take any notice of what
they were.

We may as well agree to disagree as it is obviously down to what you use
them for.

PS. zip saws and good routers cut sink top holes rather well.

stuart noble

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Jun 22, 2010, 5:58:45 AM6/22/10
to

But I'd rather freehand a jigsaw than a router.
I've owned a decent jigsaw for well over 30 years, and I can't recall a
job where it wasn't used at some point.

Andy Dingley

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Jun 22, 2010, 6:13:07 AM6/22/10
to
On 21 June, 13:29, "dennis@home" <den...@killspam.kicks-ass.net>
wrote:

> Classic andy assumes that because someone doesn't own a piece of sh!t like a
> jigsaw they haven't used one.

So far we know that you've used one bad jigsaw, haven't used a good
one, and you think they're all that bad.

I rest my case...

The Medway Handyman

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Jun 22, 2010, 1:13:58 PM6/22/10
to

And shower sawdust everywhere. And need multiple passes. And use expensive
cutters.

You have clearly never used a decent jigsaw.

michael adams

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Jun 22, 2010, 1:45:42 PM6/22/10
to

"dennis@home" <den...@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote in message
news:hvpuk6$mlt$1...@news.datemas.de...

In order to prevent any chance of the bit snapping you'd need a 12mm dia
cutter minimum on the router. Unless you're going to make multiple passes.

Quite how removing 12mm of material with a router as against 0.75mm of material
with a jigsaw can be seen as more efficient either in terms of the energy
used or the amount of waste generated is something even you couldn't
argue your way out of.

As to sink cutouts and similar, its fairly obvious you've never had to cut out
too many square inside corners in your time. For which the jigsaw is the only
tool for the job.

As it happens all the jigsaws I've ever come across have far too small a base
plate for accurate work. Although as supplied they're the best tool available
for quick reducing jobs.

Wider baseplates are easily knocked up out of ply. An advantage of mild steel
baseplates is that they're easy to drill. Two holes one front, one back, no need
for any great accuracy as the ply base is cut to fit. So drill two holes in
the baseplate. Then using the baseplate a template, drill two holes in a suitable
piece of ply, plus further holes for the blade and for access to any adjustement
screws. Countersink the holes in the ply, mount it on the baseplate and
draw around the baseplate. Remove the ply and then draw lines parallel to
the drawn baseplate lines according to how wide you want the base. At this stage
by measuring from the blade to the edge of the baseplate you could also determine
a specific offset at the side and front if required. The one illustrated is 44
side, 60 front. Having a wider baseplate makes checking the blade angle a lot
simpler as well (3). Its then a piece of cake to run up a template to accomodate
inside angles with the correct offset at the side and front for each cut.(4)

http://i47.tinypic.com/2ijrc0j.jpg


michael adams

>


The Medway Handyman

unread,
Jun 22, 2010, 3:04:25 PM6/22/10
to

The B&Q cheapy in the pictures isn't a decent jigsaw. Makita/Blue Bosch
have baseplates large enough for any job.

> Wider baseplates are easily knocked up out of ply.

You do like making work for yourself don't you?

dennis@home

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Jun 22, 2010, 3:08:51 PM6/22/10
to

"michael adams" <mjad...@onetel.net.uk> wrote in message
news:88cb5r...@mid.individual.net...


> As to sink cutouts and similar, its fairly obvious you've never had to cut
> out
> too many square inside corners in your time. For which the jigsaw is the
> only
> tool for the job.

Actually I plunge a circular saw in and do the straight bits and then finish
them with a hand saw.
Never done one with a jigsaw as the last one I tried was pathetic, some Bosh
muck I think.
I also tried someone's battery jigsaw and that was even worse, a charged
battery lasted about a foot.

If I want to rough out a hole I have a sabre saw that is pretty quick
although, for me, its really a chain saw substitute.

Not that I do many sinks, I have done more hobs than sinks.

You can also do worktop joins with a circular saw that just don't work with
jigsaws of any sort that I have seen.
I guess when they are good enough to do joinery they will be good enough to
buy.

That sounds like it might be useful if I ever feel the need to buy a jigsaw.