Drain blocked with caustic soda

[Jake]

I poured caustic soda down my shower hole and it has harderned any leads ?
I’m panicking

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy/drain-blocked-with-caustic-soda-1391099-.htm

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, 30 October 2019 02:44:07 UTC, Jake wrote:
> I poured caustic soda down my shower hole and it has harderned any leads ?
> I’m panicking

water dissolves it. Vinegar dissolves it faster, but beware of splash from caustic, a chemical that can blind you.


NT

[Jeff Layman]

Whatever you do, do it slowly and do not use boiling water to try to
speed things up. Caustic soda solidified in a drain might have a layer
of sodium carbonate covering it (it is very efficient at removing carbon
dioxide from the air). That carbonate layer dissolves a lot more slowly
than caustic soda itself. Once the caustic soda is exposed, it can react
unpredictably and sometimes almost explosively with boiling water. As NT
says, it can blind you if it shoots out of from the drain hole as a hot,
concentrated, highly corrosive solution. At the very least, good eye
protection is essential, and a full-face mask makes sense if you already
have one.

--

Jeff

[Ian Jackson]

In message <09212b46-0c46-4b80...@googlegroups.com>,
tabb...@gmail.com writes

Some brands of caustic soda 'harden'. With others, there's a rapid,
heat-producing reaction with the water, and dissolve totally without a
trace. Why is this? Have the former been 'cut' - ie something has added
to bulk it out (such as washing soda)?
--
Ian

[The Natural Philosopher]

I always use a kettle of hot water. But don’t peer down to see how its
working!


--
Future generations will wonder in bemused amazement that the early
twenty-first century’s developed world went into hysterical panic over a
globally average temperature increase of a few tenths of a degree, and,
on the basis of gross exaggerations of highly uncertain computer
projections combined into implausible chains of inference, proceeded to
contemplate a rollback of the industrial age.

Richard Lindzen

[The Natural Philosopher]

The same bottle has IME done both depending in the concentration of
added water.
.


--
It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.
Mark Twain

[Jeff Layman]

It's probably due to the amount of water added and the complex hydrates
sodium hydroxide forms with water, particularly the eutectic mixtures of
varying solubility:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_hydroxide#Hydrates>

"A hot water solution containing 73.1% (mass) of NaOH is an eutectic
that solidifies at about 62.63 °C as an intimate mix of anhydrous and
monohydrate crystals."

--

Jeff

[Brian Gaff (Sofa)]

Yes, seriously, I know of a drain that was blown apart by the reaction,
which was not nice for anyone in splatter range.
Brian

--
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"Jeff Layman" <jmla...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
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[Ian Jackson]

In message <qpbj8u$rgn$1...@dont-email.me>, Jeff Layman
<jmla...@invalid.invalid> writes

Thanks. I'll study that. One thing I didn't mention was that my water is
extremely hard, and it may be the calcium that does it. However, it does
seem that some brands of caustic soda are worse than others.
--
Ian

[Roger Hayter]

My guess would be the size and shape of the pellets and the rate of
adding water would be important factors. Aren't you supposed to
gradually add the NaOH to the water and use the solution?


--

Roger Hayter

[NY]

"Roger Hayter" <ro...@hayter.org> wrote in message
news:1og9cfo.152rjhv1ehgkowN%ro...@hayter.org...

> My guess would be the size and shape of the pellets and the rate of
> adding water would be important factors. Aren't you supposed to
> gradually add the NaOH to the water and use the solution?

And, as with any dangerous solid or liquid (eg exothermic in contact with
water), always add solid/liquid to an excess of water rather than water to
an excess of solid/liquid. Had that drummed into me in chemistry lessons!

[Roger Hayter]

Agreed. That's what I meant by 'gradually' - but I could have stated it
more clearly.

--

Roger Hayter

[The Natural Philosopher]

That's the namby way to do it, yes, but Real Men™ fill the u-bend up and
pour a boiling kettle down. That shifts any fatbergs

you get superheated pure NaOH and lots of pressure.

--
“Ideas are inherently conservative. They yield not to the attack of
other ideas but to the massive onslaught of circumstance"

- John K Galbraith

[The Natural Philosopher]

It's the safe and less useful way, yes.

As I said, try it the other way after making sure you have old clothes
and eye protection.

[Chang]

"The Natural Philosopher" <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:qpcqeo$6qk$2...@dont-email.me...

Which might be a problem with modern plastic drain pipes.

[Peeler]

On Thu, 31 Oct 2019 07:20:17 +1100, Chang, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

> Which might be a problem with modern plastic drain pipes.

Can't be as much of a problem as you are, you abnormal trolling senile pest!

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 85-year-old trolling senile
cretin from Oz:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/rod-speed-faq.2973853/

[The Natural Philosopher]

It isn't

One end is always free


--
The New Left are the people they warned you about.

[NY]

"The Natural Philosopher" <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message

news:qpei63$umb$1...@dont-email.me...

>>> That's the namby way to do it, yes, but Real Men™ fill the u-bend up and
>>> pour a boiling kettle down. That shifts any fatbergs
>>>
>>> you get superheated pure NaOH and lots of pressure.
>>
>> Which might be a problem with modern plastic drain pipes.
>
> It isn't
>
> One end is always free

It's the heat that would be the problem, not the pressure. Solid NaOH
(crystals) gives out a lot of heat when it dissolves in water. Added to the
fact that the water is already boiling, you could cause the pipe to soften
or even melt.

[tabb...@gmail.com]

The water can't get above 100C, it just forms steam to carry the excess heat away. Harmless to any drain pipe.

As for pressure, you can't make any when there's only one blockage, there's nowhere closed. If you artifically made 2 blockages, even then the materials blocking drain pipes won't contain any significant pressure. IOW the alarmism is bs.


NT

[Chang]

"The Natural Philosopher" <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message

news:qpei63$umb$1...@dont-email.me...

It clearly isnt if there is lots of pressure.

[Peeler]

On Fri, 1 Nov 2019 05:48:51 +1100, Chang, better known as cantankerous

trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

>> One end is always free
>
> It clearly isnt

LOL in auto-contradicting mode again, sociopathic troll from Oz?

--
Kerr-Mudd,John addressing senile Rot:
"Auto-contradictor Rod is back! (in the KF)"
MID: <XnsA97071CF43...@85.214.115.223>

[The Natural Philosopher]

It never has yet

As you probably do not understand, plastic waste pipes can take boiling
water, and boiling solutions of caustic sodoaq boilss at approximately
the same temperature.



--
How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think.

Adolf Hitler

[The Natural Philosopher]

'lots of pressure' is relative to 'none at all'

The vigorous boiling:

- heats the fat berg
- adds pressure at the base of the accessible water column in terms of
short duration pulses.

It's a bit like a hammer drill.

It is not like a shotgun cartridge. Or pumping up a car tyre

Experience suggests that it is highly effective at dislodging congealed
fat and represents no danger to pipework and only a small danger to
stupid people who lean over to see whats going on without glasses on.


But then, I have tried it many times and you obviously have not.

[Chang]

"The Natural Philosopher" <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message

news:qpgndu$v20$1...@dont-email.me...

I have actually, but I have earthenware pipes.

And a mate of mine, a plumber, used to be keen
on pouring a Winchester of conc nitric acid into
blocked drains and did find that worked very well.
That as in the days before plastic drain pipes too.

[Peeler]

On Fri, 1 Nov 2019 19:47:42 +1100, Chang, better known as cantankerous

trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

> I have actually, but I have earthenware pipes.

Shut your stupid senile gob, you stupid nym-shifting senile cretin from Oz!

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"You on the other hand are a heavyweight bullshitter who demonstrates
your particular prowess at it every day."
MID: <rufg9ep6ggjdt3uek...@4ax.com>

[Andrew]

Unless the temperature gets to boiling point rapidly and the steam
cannot escape, whereupon the temperature could well get over 100C.

Steam burns cause skin a lot of damage very quickly.

[tabb...@gmail.com]

Someone must have their head wedged firmly down the drain for all that to happen.

[The Natural Philosopher]

How -= if te water can get to it, can te steam NOT escape?

>
> Steam burns cause skin a lot of damage very quickly.

Christ you are handwavery received wisdom WIMP
Have you ever done ANYTHING in real life?


--
There’s a mighty big difference between good, sound reasons and reasons
that sound good.

Burton Hillis (William Vaughn, American columnist)

[Jeff Layman]

Yes and no.

Most certainly, PVC pipes can withstand boiling water. It's not easy to
find a specific figure, but the melting point of PVC in the form it is
used in pipes is probably around 200 deg C. What temperature it might
start to soften at, and lose some physical strength is another matter,
but it should still be fine for use as a waste pipe.

With polyethylene, it's a different matter. Sources give the melting
point as between 120 and 141 deg C, but, of course, it softens at a much
lower temperature as anyone who has poured boiling water into a PE
container will have found out. So anyone who tries to use PE pipe for
waste could be in for a nasty surprise if they pour boiling water down it.

How much of a surprise if caustic soda is used can be calculated - to
some extent. A bit of Googling will show that when sodium hydroxide is
dissolved in water it releases 44kJ of energy per mole - in other words
about 250 calories per gram. One calorie will raise the temperature of
one gram of water by 1 deg C. So, for example, adding one gram of sodium
hydroxide to half a teaspoon (2.5 ml) of water at freezing point will
raise its temperature to boiling point.

And adding more will raise its temperature *above* boiling point. Well
above boiling point, in fact, and not "...approximately the same
temperature". If you look at Graph 1 on page 31 here:
<https://www.oxy.com/OurBusinesses/Chemicals/Products/Documents/CausticSoda/caustic.pdf>
you will see that a 50% solution of sodium hydroxide boils at about 142
deg C at atmospheric pressure (and so even higher if under pressure in a
blocked pipe). In other words, the temperature of the solution will be
above the melting point of polyethylene.

--

Jeff

[michael adams]

"Jeff Layman" <jmla...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message

news:qpjf1g$q7n$1...@dont-email.me...

> On 01/11/19 07:33, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 31/10/2019 13:13, NY wrote:
>>> "The Natural Philosopher" <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:qpei63$umb$1...@dont-email.me...

>>>>>> That's the namby way to do it, yes, but Real MenT fill the u-bend up

Regardless of its effect on the pipe itself, I'd imagine a bigger concern might
be its effect on any joints. As basically the last thing anyone needs are leaking
joints in inaccessible places.

michael adams

...