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Can one put a gas fire (eg a living flame one) on an internal wall?
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Jeremy Nicoll - news posts
Jul 22, 2012, 1:34:56 PM7/22/12
to
One room in my house (well actually it's two rooms & a tiny bit of hall at
the moment but the wall between them might get removed) is about 20' long
and 9'6" wide. One end of it and an L-shaped part of the middle of it is
currently the kitchen, with a door (in the middle of the end wall) leading
to the garden.
I'm considering having the kitchen moved to another room in the house and
having about 5' of the 20' space, at the end which has the garden door,
turned into a small utility room - washing machine, tumble drier, sink,
pulley etc).
The boundary between that and the remaining 15' x 9'6" space would just be a
stud wall (or perhaps a little stronger if necessary) with a doorway in it
at one side and a window at the other (I already know the window is a
complication because the stud wall will bisect an existing window opening so
that will need a fire-proof pillar put up through it so fire can't get
around the end of the stud wall. It means that on both sides of the new
stud wall there will be a small window (unless either or both of them get
bricked up completely, though as the house is harled it's hard to see how
that could be done without looking awful on the outside).
Is there any way that a gas fire could be mounted (perhaps in a fake hearth)
in this stud wall? There'd be no way a chimney could be put in, at least
not one going straight up (through the middle of the room above). But could
it somehow vent horizontally (along the line of the stud wall) to the
outside? The horizontal distance involved would only be about 4-5'.
If a gas fire's not possible, I presume a wood stove could be used (as it's
not unusual to see a stove pipe crossing a wall) but I don't really want a
stove. Of course there's other options - fake fires with fan heaters in
them etc, but I don't really want one of those either.
--
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.
Email sent to my from-address will be deleted. Instead, please reply
to newsre...@wingsandbeaks.org.uk replacing "aaa" by "284".
the moment but the wall between them might get removed) is about 20' long
and 9'6" wide. One end of it and an L-shaped part of the middle of it is
currently the kitchen, with a door (in the middle of the end wall) leading
to the garden.
I'm considering having the kitchen moved to another room in the house and
having about 5' of the 20' space, at the end which has the garden door,
turned into a small utility room - washing machine, tumble drier, sink,
pulley etc).
The boundary between that and the remaining 15' x 9'6" space would just be a
stud wall (or perhaps a little stronger if necessary) with a doorway in it
at one side and a window at the other (I already know the window is a
complication because the stud wall will bisect an existing window opening so
that will need a fire-proof pillar put up through it so fire can't get
around the end of the stud wall. It means that on both sides of the new
stud wall there will be a small window (unless either or both of them get
bricked up completely, though as the house is harled it's hard to see how
that could be done without looking awful on the outside).
Is there any way that a gas fire could be mounted (perhaps in a fake hearth)
in this stud wall? There'd be no way a chimney could be put in, at least
not one going straight up (through the middle of the room above). But could
it somehow vent horizontally (along the line of the stud wall) to the
outside? The horizontal distance involved would only be about 4-5'.
If a gas fire's not possible, I presume a wood stove could be used (as it's
not unusual to see a stove pipe crossing a wall) but I don't really want a
stove. Of course there's other options - fake fires with fan heaters in
them etc, but I don't really want one of those either.
--
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.
Email sent to my from-address will be deleted. Instead, please reply
to newsre...@wingsandbeaks.org.uk replacing "aaa" by "284".
John Rumm
Jul 22, 2012, 8:37:53 PM7/22/12
to
On 22/07/2012 18:34, Jeremy Nicoll - news posts wrote:
> Is there any way that a gas fire could be mounted (perhaps in a fake hearth)
> in this stud wall? There'd be no way a chimney could be put in, at least
> not one going straight up (through the middle of the room above). But could
> it somehow vent horizontally (along the line of the stud wall) to the
> outside? The horizontal distance involved would only be about 4-5'.
You can get (lowish output) gas fires with catalytic exhausts that don't
> Is there any way that a gas fire could be mounted (perhaps in a fake hearth)
> in this stud wall? There'd be no way a chimney could be put in, at least
> not one going straight up (through the middle of the room above). But could
> it somehow vent horizontally (along the line of the stud wall) to the
> outside? The horizontal distance involved would only be about 4-5'.
require a balanced flue and hence can go on an internal wall providing
there is adequate ventilation.
--
Cheers,
John.
/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/
Jeremy Nicoll - news posts
Jul 23, 2012, 6:21:07 AM7/23/12
to
John Rumm <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
>On 22/07/2012 18:34, Jeremy Nicoll - news posts wrote:
>
> > Is there any way that a gas fire could be mounted (perhaps in a fake
> > hearth) in this stud wall? There'd be no way a chimney could be put in,
> > at least not one going straight up (through the middle of the room
> > above). But could it somehow vent horizontally (along the line of the
> > stud wall) to the outside? The horizontal distance involved would only
> > be about 4-5'.
>
> You can get (lowish output) gas fires with catalytic exhausts that don't
> require a balanced flue and hence can go on an internal wall providing
> there is adequate ventilation.
Output doesn't need to be vast; it's more the combination of some heat and a
>On 22/07/2012 18:34, Jeremy Nicoll - news posts wrote:
>
> > Is there any way that a gas fire could be mounted (perhaps in a fake
> > hearth) in this stud wall? There'd be no way a chimney could be put in,
> > at least not one going straight up (through the middle of the room
> > above). But could it somehow vent horizontally (along the line of the
> > stud wall) to the outside? The horizontal distance involved would only
> > be about 4-5'.
>
> You can get (lowish output) gas fires with catalytic exhausts that don't
> require a balanced flue and hence can go on an internal wall providing
> there is adequate ventilation.
focal point for the room that I'm interested in. I could just use a fan
heater and an old laptop (if old enough it might generate some heat all by
itself!) running a .gif animation of flames!
Ta! Do catalytic fires need the catalyst replaced? (I presume they convert
CO to something safer?)
Since I asked I've seen some fanned-flue fires (online) which support flue
ducts of up to 5-10m, so I guess that - for a price - something would be
possible.
Tim+
Jul 23, 2012, 6:37:00 AM7/23/12
to
Jeremy Nicoll - news posts wrote:
> John Rumm <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
>
>> On 22/07/2012 18:34, Jeremy Nicoll - news posts wrote:
>>
>>> Is there any way that a gas fire could be mounted (perhaps in a fake
>>> hearth) in this stud wall? There'd be no way a chimney could be
>>> put in, at least not one going straight up (through the middle of
>>> the room above). But could it somehow vent horizontally (along the
>>> line of the stud wall) to the outside? The horizontal distance
>>> involved would only be about 4-5'.
>>
>> You can get (lowish output) gas fires with catalytic exhausts that
>> don't require a balanced flue and hence can go on an internal wall
>> providing there is adequate ventilation.
>
> Output doesn't need to be vast; it's more the combination of some
> heat and a focal point for the room that I'm interested in. I could
> just use a fan heater and an old laptop (if old enough it might
> generate some heat all by itself!) running a .gif animation of flames!
>
> Ta! Do catalytic fires need the catalyst replaced? (I presume they
> convert CO to something safer?)
>
> Since I asked I've seen some fanned-flue fires (online) which support
> flue ducts of up to 5-10m, so I guess that - for a price - something
> would be possible.
CO is converted to CO2. I'd be more worried about the extra water vapour
> John Rumm <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
>
>> On 22/07/2012 18:34, Jeremy Nicoll - news posts wrote:
>>
>>> Is there any way that a gas fire could be mounted (perhaps in a fake
>>> hearth) in this stud wall? There'd be no way a chimney could be
>>> put in, at least not one going straight up (through the middle of
>>> the room above). But could it somehow vent horizontally (along the
>>> line of the stud wall) to the outside? The horizontal distance
>>> involved would only be about 4-5'.
>>
>> You can get (lowish output) gas fires with catalytic exhausts that
>> don't require a balanced flue and hence can go on an internal wall
>> providing there is adequate ventilation.
>
> Output doesn't need to be vast; it's more the combination of some
> heat and a focal point for the room that I'm interested in. I could
> just use a fan heater and an old laptop (if old enough it might
> generate some heat all by itself!) running a .gif animation of flames!
>
> Ta! Do catalytic fires need the catalyst replaced? (I presume they
> convert CO to something safer?)
>
> Since I asked I've seen some fanned-flue fires (online) which support
> flue ducts of up to 5-10m, so I guess that - for a price - something
> would be possible.
though. I guess that's why they're generally low output.
Tim
Onetap
Jul 23, 2012, 7:38:16 AM7/23/12
to
On Monday, July 23, 2012 11:37:00 AM UTC+1, Tim+ wrote:
> CO is converted to CO2. I'd be more worried about the extra water vapour
> though. I guess that's why they're generally low output.
>
Yes, as on cars, until the catylitic converter fails, when it starts emitting CO into the room.
Many gas fitters won't install them. Have a search in the archives on the DIYNOT forum to read all the sceptical,
disparaging comments. I wouldn't have one, either.
> CO is converted to CO2. I'd be more worried about the extra water vapour
> though. I guess that's why they're generally low output.
>
Yes, as on cars, until the catylitic converter fails, when it starts emitting CO into the room.
Many gas fitters won't install them. Have a search in the archives on the DIYNOT forum to read all the sceptical,
disparaging comments. I wouldn't have one, either.
Tim+
Jul 23, 2012, 8:30:06 AM7/23/12
to
John Rumm <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
> On 22/07/2012 18:34, Jeremy Nicoll - news posts wrote:
>
>> Is there any way that a gas fire could be mounted (perhaps in a fake hearth)
>> in this stud wall? There'd be no way a chimney could be put in, at least
>> not one going straight up (through the middle of the room above). But could
>> it somehow vent horizontally (along the line of the stud wall) to the
>> outside? The horizontal distance involved would only be about 4-5'.
>
> You can get (lowish output) gas fires with catalytic exhausts that don't
> require a balanced flue and hence can go on an internal wall providing
> there is adequate ventilation.
>
Surely you needs stacks of ventilation to avoid condensation problems with
> On 22/07/2012 18:34, Jeremy Nicoll - news posts wrote:
>
>> Is there any way that a gas fire could be mounted (perhaps in a fake hearth)
>> in this stud wall? There'd be no way a chimney could be put in, at least
>> not one going straight up (through the middle of the room above). But could
>> it somehow vent horizontally (along the line of the stud wall) to the
>> outside? The horizontal distance involved would only be about 4-5'.
>
> You can get (lowish output) gas fires with catalytic exhausts that don't
> require a balanced flue and hence can go on an internal wall providing
> there is adequate ventilation.
>
these? I would guess a fan flued (?sp) gas fire is more what the OP is
looking for.
Tim
Owain
Jul 23, 2012, 9:38:49 AM7/23/12
to
On Jul 23, 11:21 am, Jeremy Nicoll - news posts wrote:
> Output doesn't need to be vast; it's more the combination of some heat and a
> focal point for the room that I'm interested in. I could just use a fan
> heater and an old laptop (if old enough it might generate some heat all by
> itself!) running a .gif animation of flames!
I think Dimplex already make LCD display 'fires'
> Output doesn't need to be vast; it's more the combination of some heat and a
> focal point for the room that I'm interested in. I could just use a fan
> heater and an old laptop (if old enough it might generate some heat all by
> itself!) running a .gif animation of flames!
With an aquarium for summer mode.
What's wrong with a telly as the focal point?
Owain
ARWadsworth
Jul 23, 2012, 3:06:52 PM7/23/12
to
John Rumm wrote:
> On 22/07/2012 18:34, Jeremy Nicoll - news posts wrote:
>
> > Is there any way that a gas fire could be mounted (perhaps in a
> > fake hearth) in this stud wall? There'd be no way a chimney could
> > be put in, at least not one going straight up (through the middle
> > of the room above). But could it somehow vent horizontally (along
> > the line of the stud wall) to the outside? The horizontal distance
> > involved would only be about 4-5'.
>
> You can get (lowish output) gas fires with catalytic exhausts that
> don't require a balanced flue and hence can go on an internal wall
> providing there is adequate ventilation.
That ventilation usually consists of a hole throught the external wall that
> On 22/07/2012 18:34, Jeremy Nicoll - news posts wrote:
>
> > Is there any way that a gas fire could be mounted (perhaps in a
> > fake hearth) in this stud wall? There'd be no way a chimney could
> > be put in, at least not one going straight up (through the middle
> > of the room above). But could it somehow vent horizontally (along
> > the line of the stud wall) to the outside? The horizontal distance
> > involved would only be about 4-5'.
>
> You can get (lowish output) gas fires with catalytic exhausts that
> don't require a balanced flue and hence can go on an internal wall
> providing there is adequate ventilation.
allows more heat out/more cold in than the gas fire can compensate for:-)
--
Adam
Geoff Pearson
Jul 24, 2012, 3:21:29 AM7/24/12
to
"ARWadsworth" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:juk7cf$qrv$1...@dont-email.me...
Even the headache is astonishing and then there's death to think about.
Hugh - Was Invisible
Jul 24, 2012, 3:43:23 AM7/24/12
to
outside) we started falling asleep and getting headaches (not alcohol
induced) and so ceased using the fire. After I took out the old fireplace
the surveyor for the new fireplace and fire specified removal of quite a
few bricks and a raised lintel.
As I understand it you need a pretty much vertical chimney that draws
properly or
A balanced flue or
A non-flued fire that has a carbon monoxide detector that automatically
shuts the fire off.
Balanced flue needs an outside wall
Chimney means downdrafts occasionally when the fire is not in use
Non-flued means a build up of water vapour and CO2 apart from the risks of
CO
Phil L
Jul 24, 2012, 10:35:36 AM7/24/12
to
Jeremy Nicoll - news posts wrote:
that size?
If no chimney, why can't the fire go on an outside wall?
You're asking for trouble putting a fire on this proposed stud wall.
Jeremy Nicoll - news posts
Jul 24, 2012, 12:56:50 PM7/24/12
to
"Phil L" <neverc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Why can't you use the existing chimney? - I assume it's a living room
> being that size?
Nope, it's the ground floor of an extension the previous owners put on the
> Why can't you use the existing chimney? - I assume it's a living room
> being that size?
house, with what was then a study at one end and a kitchen at the other,
though they met in a L/Z-zhaped wall, that also forms one wall of a very
small entrance hallway. There's no chimney.
Now (not quite the right shapes, but an idea anyway):
WINDOW
+-------------------------+-------------========----------+
| | |
| | |
| | KITCHEN \
W|| | \ BACK
I|| STUDY | \ DOOR
N|| | |
D|| +--+---------+ |
O|| | | |
W| \ / |
| \ / |
| \ / |
+----------------------------+ +------------------+
REST OF
HOUSE
Plan:
WINDOW
+---------------------------------------===+====----------+
| | UTILITY |
| | |
| | \
W|| g| \ BACK
I|| g| \ DOOR
N|| g| |
D|| | |
O|| | |
W| \ / |
| \ / |
| \ / |
+----------------------------+- -+-----------------+
REST OF
HOUSE
"ggg" is where I was wondering about putting the fire.
>If no chimney, why can't the fire go on an outside wall?
things I'm considering using the room for.
> You're asking for trouble putting a fire on this proposed stud wall.
NT
Jul 25, 2012, 7:04:27 AM7/25/12
to
On Jul 24, 4:56 pm, Jeremy Nicoll - news posts
<jn.nntp.scrap...@wingsandbeaks.org.uk> wrote:
<jn.nntp.scrap...@wingsandbeaks.org.uk> wrote:
CO2, CO risk, damp, O2 depletion. Unvented heating is livable with,
but these days I wouldnt choose to install it.
NT
Jeremy Nicoll - news posts
Jul 25, 2012, 9:07:05 AM7/25/12
to
installation examples of fires connected to quite long (eg 5-7m) ducts, eg
with the ducts running through a garage to the outside.
If a fire was ducted or otherwise vented sideways from its location on the
stud wall, is it /still/ a bad idea? Is there anything critical in the way
the stud wall is constructed? - perhaps needing to be blockwork rather than
stud?
NT
Jul 25, 2012, 3:03:10 PM7/25/12
to
On Jul 25, 1:07 pm, Jeremy Nicoll - news posts
<jn.nntp.scrap...@wingsandbeaks.org.uk> wrote:
H2O. Go for a room sealed system if you have that option, if a step
safer again.
NT
<jn.nntp.scrap...@wingsandbeaks.org.uk> wrote:
> NT <meow2...@care2.com> wrote:
> >On Jul 24, 4:56 pm, Jeremy Nicoll - news posts
> ><jn.nntp.scrap...@wingsandbeaks.org.uk> wrote:
> >> Well, that's why I'm asking... to find out if/why it's a bad idea.
> > CO2, CO risk, damp, O2 depletion. Unvented heating is livable with, but
> > these days I wouldnt choose to install it.
>
> Yes but even in my first post I did mention vents, and I've since seen
> installation examples of fires connected to quite long (eg 5-7m) ducts, eg
> with the ducts running through a garage to the outside.
>
> If a fire was ducted or otherwise vented sideways from its location on the
> stud wall, is it /still/ a bad idea? Is there anything critical in the way
> the stud wall is constructed? - perhaps needing to be blockwork rather than
> stud?
If its vented flu then there's no longer any problem with CO, CO2 or
> >On Jul 24, 4:56 pm, Jeremy Nicoll - news posts
> ><jn.nntp.scrap...@wingsandbeaks.org.uk> wrote:
> >> Well, that's why I'm asking... to find out if/why it's a bad idea.
> > CO2, CO risk, damp, O2 depletion. Unvented heating is livable with, but
> > these days I wouldnt choose to install it.
>
> Yes but even in my first post I did mention vents, and I've since seen
> installation examples of fires connected to quite long (eg 5-7m) ducts, eg
> with the ducts running through a garage to the outside.
>
> If a fire was ducted or otherwise vented sideways from its location on the
> stud wall, is it /still/ a bad idea? Is there anything critical in the way
> the stud wall is constructed? - perhaps needing to be blockwork rather than
> stud?
H2O. Go for a room sealed system if you have that option, if a step
safer again.
NT
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