Wooden slats in loft
BartC
support the roof rafters part-way up.
These beams are 3-4 feet above the floor of the loft (ie. above the ceiling
below).
Below each beam, on each side, is a wooden joist running perpendicular to,
and on top of, the main ceiling joists, perhaps 3x2".
Between the thick wooden beams, and the extra joists below, have been nailed
a series of thin wooden slats (4" wide, maybe 3/8" thick). Several feet
apart, half a dozen on each side, nailed to the sides of the beams with a
couple of nails each end.
They don't appear to be carrying any load (which would be borne by the
nails); so what are they for?
(I'm asking because I'm boarding the entire loft, and they're in the way.)
--
Bartc
jgharston
> The loft area of my new house contains hefty wooden beams (perhaps 3x8") to
> support the roof rafters part-way up.
They're called purlins. See http://www.buildsrilanka.com/Images1/Roof_3.gif
and http://www.diydata.com/general_building/roof_construction/roof_construction.php
> Below each beam, on each side, is a wooden joist running perpendicular to,
> and on top of, the main ceiling joists, perhaps 3x2".
Binder, spaces the ceiling joists apart and stiffens the structure.
> Between the thick wooden beams, and the extra joists below, have been nailed
> a series of thin wooden slats (4" wide, maybe 3/8" thick). Several feet
> apart, half a dozen on each side, nailed to the sides of the beams with a
> couple of nails each end.
Hangers, the ceiling hangs from them and are used to allow smaller
ceiling joists to be used. If you remove them the ceiling will sag.
> They don't appear to be carrying any load (which would be borne by the
> nails); so what are they for?
They're not carrying much load - just the ceiling - but that's not
the same as not carrying any load. And if you're intending boarding
the loft that implies placing things on the floor and increasing
the load.
You /may/ be able to put replacement hangers further into the eves,
but you /will/ have to do engineering calculations to work out if
that would be suitable. Essentially, as hangers are there to allow
smaller joists to be used, you're likely to need to replace or
suppliement the joists with thicker ones.
In yer typical Victorian terrace the hangers form the uprights for
the attic walls.
> (I'm asking because I'm boarding the entire loft, and they're in the way.)
Do you need standing space within the eves - behind the hangers?
Board the floor perpendicular to the joists and the boards will
but up to the hangers. Cut notches in more boards to board
behind the hangers.
As a rule of thumb, a span of "x" feet needs standard-sized joists
of "x square inches" at 16" spacing to cross the span without support.
eg, 15 feet needs 8"x2" joists. As it's a loft it's likely the ceiling
joists are just that and are 3"x2".
JGH
John Rumm
For reference, some pictures here:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Roof_construction
> The loft area of my new house contains hefty wooden beams (perhaps 3x8") to
> support the roof rafters part-way up.
Purlins - support the rafters mid span and stop them sagging under the
weight of tiles.
> These beams are 3-4 feet above the floor of the loft (ie. above the ceiling
> below).
>
> Below each beam, on each side, is a wooden joist running perpendicular to,
> and on top of, the main ceiling joists, perhaps 3x2".
Probably strappers or tie beams helping to prevent lateral or twisting
movement of the ceiling joists.
> Between the thick wooden beams, and the extra joists below, have been
> nailed
> a series of thin wooden slats (4" wide, maybe 3/8" thick). Several feet
> apart, half a dozen on each side, nailed to the sides of the beams with
> a couple of nails each end.
>
> They don't appear to be carrying any load (which would be borne by the
> nails); so what are they for?
Adding a bit of support to the strapper, which in turn will add a bit of
support to the ceiling. Without them, you will probably get a bit more
sag in the ceilings. As you say the strappers are only fixed to the
joists by nails in tension, so they won't be carrying much load.
My previous place had them (2nd picture down):
http://www.internode.co.uk/loft/floor.htm
but they were not strapped to the purlins (although you can see from the
pictures, we fitted temporary straps to the purlins when we needed to
cut sections out). Ultimately (last picture) we used noggings on the new
joists to replace them.
Having said that, a few inches of sag is not really visible from the
room below. Look at the one before last picture - you can see the sag in
the middle of the room below is about 3" at the centre of span. Yet you
can't see this from in the room. Its only noticeable when one runs a
straight edge along the ceiling as I did here! Needless to say if you
currently don't have much sag, and you chop them out you may get more
and in quite a short time frame. This might damage the decorative finish
below.
> (I'm asking because I'm boarding the entire loft, and they're in the way.)
What are the spans of the joists and what size are they?
Chances are you are unlikely to have a major problem taking out *some*
of the vertical straps. Obviously we can't really give a more conclusive
answer without loads more information, photos etc.
--
Cheers,
John.
/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/
harry
The 3x8 are purlins. They and the wallplates (on top of the walls)
support the whole roof structure.
The 3x2 nailed on the cieling joists are to prevent the ceiling joists
from moving (warping) and causing cracks to appear in the ceiling
below.
The vertical hangers are to support the ceiling from the purlin again
to prevent movements.
The ceiling is also supported off any partition wallsin the rooms
below.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purlin
Skipweasel
@k30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>, j...@arcade.demon.co.uk says...
> Do you need standing space within the eves - behind the hangers?
> Board the floor perpendicular to the joists and the boards will
> but up to the hangers. Cut notches in more boards to board
> behind the hangers.
>
Or remove the hangers, board over, then replace with meaty screw-eyes
and straining wires/bottle screws.
--
Skipweasel - never knowingly understood.
BartC
...
> Between the thick wooden beams, and the extra joists below, have been
> nailed
> a series of thin wooden slats (4" wide, maybe 3/8" thick). Several feet
> apart, half a dozen on each side, nailed to the sides of the beams with a
> couple of nails each end.
>
> They don't appear to be carrying any load (which would be borne by the
> nails); so what are they for?
>
> (I'm asking because I'm boarding the entire loft, and they're in the way.)
[Hangers]
Thanks for the replies. Wouldn't have guessed that these things were under
tension, but they seem insubstantial for a compressive force.
So it looks like I need to keep them, and have to work around them, which is
a bit more fiddly. Although, apart from them, this loft is surprisingly
uncluttered compared with some previous houses with wooden struts and beams
everywhere.
--
Bartc
dennis@home
"BartC" <b...@freeuk.com> wrote in message news:inuh30$kpc$1...@dont-email.me...
> So it looks like I need to keep them, and have to work around them, which
> is a bit more fiddly. Although, apart from them, this loft is surprisingly
> uncluttered compared with some previous houses with wooden struts and
> beams everywhere.
They would be trussed rafters and are what the majority of new houses use.
They use less materials and arrive factory made so are quicker to erect.
Never cut one unless you have already replaced it with something to hold the
roof together.
MM
What a coincidence! I only started yesterday putting walk boards
(slats) down and, lo! Here is a thread about them.
I'm not going to do the entire loft floor area, but will space out the
boards so that there is one every foot or so. I only had one plank to
start with yesterday (142mm x 17mm), so I could only get three boards
from it, but already those three take me to the centre of the loft
with perfect ease, rather than balance on the narrow joists.
This was brought about by my clambering around to sort out the TV
aerial cable!
MM
BartC
news:inp5q65sc4cvv73ts...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 11 Apr 2011 00:31:28 +0100, "BartC" <b...@freeuk.com> wrote:
>>(I'm asking because I'm boarding the entire loft, and they're in the way.)
>
> What a coincidence! I only started yesterday putting walk boards
> (slats) down and, lo! Here is a thread about them.
>
> I'm not going to do the entire loft floor area, but will space out the
> boards so that there is one every foot or so. I only had one plank to
> start with yesterday (142mm x 17mm), so I could only get three boards
> from it, but already those three take me to the centre of the loft
Mine was covered with over a foot of insulation (three generations' worth,
1" + 4" + 8") and it was like trying to walk on clouds, with the joists
completely buried.
> with perfect ease, rather than balance on the narrow joists.
142mm (about the same width as a DVD) doesn't sound much wider. A single
pack of three loft panels, under £6, will be a foot wide and give a 12' run.
--
Bartc
MM
What about the weight?
Also, I just don't need the whole area done. Even only a few slats
would be enough, but I'm going to place them at 1-ft intevals, so they
should be all I'll ever need. I only need to get to the tanks, the
overflow and the aerial booster.
MM
harry
> On Mon, 11 Apr 2011 13:38:43 +0100, "BartC" <b...@freeuk.com> wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
You can get T&G chipboard specially for roof space flooring.
MM
wrote:
>On Apr 11, 5:53 pm, MM <kylix...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Mon, 11 Apr 2011 13:38:43 +0100, "BartC" <b...@freeuk.com> wrote:
>> >"MM" <kylix...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>> >news:inp5q65sc4cvv73ts...@4ax.com...
>> >> On Mon, 11 Apr 2011 00:31:28 +0100, "BartC" <b...@freeuk.com> wrote:
>>
>> >>>(I'm asking because I'm boarding the entire loft, and they're in the way.)
>>
>> >> What a coincidence! I only started yesterday putting walk boards
>> >> (slats) down and, lo! Here is a thread about them.
>>
>> >> I'm not going to do the entire loft floor area, but will space out the
>> >> boards so that there is one every foot or so. I only had one plank to
>> >> start with yesterday (142mm x 17mm), so I could only get three boards
>> >> from it, but already those three take me to the centre of the loft
>>
>> >Mine was covered with over a foot of insulation (three generations' worth,
>> >1" + 4" + 8") and it was like trying to walk on clouds, with the joists
>> >completely buried.
>>
>> >> with perfect ease, rather than balance on the narrow joists.
>>
>> >142mm (about the same width as a DVD) doesn't sound much wider. A single
>> >pack of three loft panels, under Ł6, will be a foot wide and give a 12' run.
>>
>> What about the weight?
>>
>> Also, I just don't need the whole area done. Even only a few slats
>> would be enough, but I'm going to place them at 1-ft intevals, so they
>> should be all I'll ever need. I only need to get to the tanks, the
>> overflow and the aerial booster.
>>
>> MM- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>You can get T&G chipboard specially for roof space flooring.
I know, and I've used it on a previous property in which I stored a
heck of a lot of stuff in the loft and was always going up there to
rummage around. In my current house I don't have anything stored in
the loft, so I've only been up there a few times in six years.
Chipboarding the entire floor would be overkill. I just need something
to help me bridge the gaps between the joists, that's all. One plank
every foot is absolutely fine. I've tried it with the three planks I
got from the length I had lying around and the three are more than
enough to take me from the loft ladder to the centre of the loft
without having to bother where I'm putting my feet.
MM
Man at B&Q
wrote:
> "BartC" <b...@freeuk.com> wrote in messagenews:inuh30$kpc$1...@dont-email.me...
Cutting *one* will not cause the roof to collapse. The usual order is
to cut one and then add the new material, e.g. to support the cut
ends. It's a bit difficult to do this *before* you make the first cut.
MBQ
dennis@home
"Man at B&Q" <manat...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9a44d867-b4a1-4195...@d11g2000yqo.googlegroups.com...
> Cutting *one* will not cause the roof to collapse. The usual order is
> to cut one and then add the new material, e.g. to support the cut
> ends. It's a bit difficult to do this *before* you make the first cut.
Anyone with sense supports it before the first cut.
Those that don't have stuff fall down.
If you don't know how to support it before the first cut then find someone
that does.
>
> MBQ
Man at B&Q
> "Man at B&Q" <manatba...@hotmail.com> wrote in messagenews:9a44d867-b4a1-4195...@d11g2000yqo.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Cutting *one* will not cause the roof to collapse. The usual order is
> > to cut one and then add the new material, e.g. to support the cut
> > ends. It's a bit difficult to do this *before* you make the first cut.
>
> Anyone with sense supports it before the first cut.
Yes, temporarily support the cut end(s). They don't have to have (in
your words) "already replaced it with something to hold the roof
together. "
MBQ
dennis@home
"Man at B&Q" <manat...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1f15d5aa-5be8-4927...@f11g2000vbx.googlegroups.com...
My words say what you have to do, support it. Yours said you didn't need to
support it. You were wrong to say that you can "cut one and then add the new
material" (your words BTW). There was nothing wrong with what I said.
![george [dicegeorge]'s profile photo](http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjVy3egmWxdo6kgdNwXDn-6EE54MDMuR9kO5wF-DhVhewlzxjNY=s40-c)
george [dicegeorge]
could support with a stick (dead man) in the room below?
[g]