Ring dorrbell powering via cat6 cable

[leen...@yahoo.co.uk]

Hi All,

Ring doorbells are on offer at the moment so was thinking of buying one. At the moment, I have a bog standard bell push connected via cat6 to a battery powered bell. It goes via a central comms room in case I every changed it to be a PoE camera type thing.

Looking at the Ring options, there is the elite one which is PoE but is a fortune, So, was thinking I could get a normal wired one and use the cat6 cable to power it -i.e. transformer at one end of the cat6 and Ring doorbell the other. Networking will obviously by WiFi in this model.

Doing a search online, seems like others have done this but have had to connect a pair of cat6 to + and to - as a single cable was "insufficient". Given I am running CCTV camera's over PoE already I would have thought using cat6 for this would be fine but wanted to check with you folks first and whether this need to use pairs of wires makes sense.

Also, in terms of the transformer, Ring obviously want you to buy theirs but wondered if there was anything special about it. Spec seems to be 9 to 24 VAC and seems to vary between 0.5 and 1 amps. Presumably if I got one withing these parameters it should be fine? Anyone experience of this?

thanks

Lee.

[John Rumm]

On 12/10/2022 10:56, leen...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

> Looking at the Ring options, there is the elite one which is PoE but
> is a fortune, So, was thinking I could get a normal wired one and
> use the cat6 cable to power it -i.e. transformer at one end of the
> cat6 and Ring doorbell the other. Networking will obviously by WiFi
> in this model.

Sounds like it should work...

> Doing a search online, seems like others have done this but have had
> to connect a pair of cat6 to + and to - as a single cable was
> "insufficient". Given I am running CCTV camera's over PoE already I
> would have thought using cat6 for this would be fine but wanted to
> check with you folks first and whether this need to use pairs of
> wires makes sense.

There is a general problem with running power down long thin wires - the
voltage drop can be a problem. Proper PoE gets round most of these
problems by running at 48V, and then regulating that down to whatever is
actually required at the far end.

The ring manual I just looked at[1] suggests 10 to 24V at 40VA max - It
seems odd to specify a max VA rather than a minimum. That would suggest
what seems like way to much current (it implies up to 4A at 10V!) - so I
find that hard to believe.

[1]
https://support.ring.com/hc/en-us/article_attachments/360093677052/Ring_RVD_Wired.pdf

> Also, in terms of the transformer, Ring obviously want you to buy
> theirs but wondered if there was anything special about it. Spec
> seems to be 9 to 24 VAC and seems to vary between 0.5 and 1 amps.
> Presumably if I got one withing these parameters it should be fine?
> Anyone experience of this?

Not tried it. However I expect this is a case of suck it and see, since
it will depend on the actual output voltage of your bell transformer,
and also the length of your cable. Long cable and voltage output close
to the minimum might be a problem. The two pairs solution would see easy
enough though since it sounds like you have 4 to play with.


--
Cheers,

John.

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[Theo]

John Rumm <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
> The ring manual I just looked at[1] suggests 10 to 24V at 40VA max - It
> seems odd to specify a max VA rather than a minimum. That would suggest
> what seems like way to much current (it implies up to 4A at 10V!) - so I
> find that hard to believe.

As I described in the Blink thread, I think what they're doing is powering
themselves from the bell circuit, and watching for voltage sag when the bell
is pushed. The chime takes a big gulp of current from the transformer and
so the observed voltage across the circuit sags.

If you have an enormous transformer the line voltage won't change in
response to load, so they can't detect that.

I wonder if they work with electronic chimes that take almost no current?
(I assume they must bleed some current through a mechanical chime if they
are wired across the bell push, but that wouldn't work with electronic
chimes?)

Theo

[Mark Carver]

On 12/10/2022 10:56, leen...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

I have a Nest doorbell. I power it via a CAT 6 cable, about 10 metres
long. I doubled up the conductors to reduce the voltage drop. Works fine

Being American it runs from 24 Volts, it's not really Level 1 DIY, you
need to be confident with electronics. Dunno about the Ring model, but I
found this helpful for Nest.

https://medium.com/@teabot/nest-hello-uk-installation-cfc598059694

[John Rumm]

On 12/10/2022 11:50, Theo wrote:
> John Rumm <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
>> The ring manual I just looked at[1] suggests 10 to 24V at 40VA max - It
>> seems odd to specify a max VA rather than a minimum. That would suggest
>> what seems like way to much current (it implies up to 4A at 10V!) - so I
>> find that hard to believe.
>
> As I described in the Blink thread, I think what they're doing is powering
> themselves from the bell circuit, and watching for voltage sag when the bell
> is pushed. The chime takes a big gulp of current from the transformer and
> so the observed voltage across the circuit sags.

The manual instructs that you bridge out the existing chime.

So the only load on the wires at the bell push end will be the ring
device itself.

(they don't operate the original chime - you need a ring specific chime
if you need that)

[Paul]

The style of mine, is shown here.

The mains side of this transformer, has a threaded collar so the
transformer mounts to the metal box of the electrical panel.
This allows the mains wires to be joined to mains stuff inside the panel.

The secondary screw terminals for bell wiring, are then
outside of the electrical box (where they would not belong).
This reduced the risk to DIYers messing about with the terminals.

"Class 2" apparently stands for "Energy Limiting", implying
they can take a short circuit ?

"Energy Limiting Transformers - ("BA" - "BE" Series) - Hammond Mfg."

http://www.hammondmfg.com/ba.htm

You can see the 10V one uses a smaller core, and is
not really a 40VA sized core. Available power ratings
of 5VA and 12VA, for the 10V ones.

Hammond transformers used to be made somewhere in NA,
for our market, but now the stock is no longer kept
in a warehouse, and instead comes all the way from China.
It took me six weeks to get a Hammond, the last time I
wanted a specific one (for an audio amp project).

Paul

[Paul]

On 10/12/2022 6:50 AM, Theo wrote:

[Brian]

I can’t comment on a Ring one directly but we have a mains powered Eufy
version which is similar. The supplied cable (between the ‘wall wart’ and
push button bit) is certainly similar in gauge, if not finer, that the
wires in a CAT 6 cable. It is a while since I installed ours but I think
the supplied wire was about 3 m long.

The Eufy version offers the same functions with the advantage you don’t
need to subscribe for a service.

[Tricky Dicky]

I have a Ring doorbell 2 this is specified as a battery powered device and
mounted on its own the battery would need to be recharged every so often.
However, you can “hardwire” it there are two terminals on the back and what
this does is constantly trickle charge the battery so no battery removal or
swapping of battery packs.

You do not need to use Ring’s dedicated power supply despite their
insistence you should. Ring doorbell 2 is designed to hook up to an
existing doorbell power supply 9 - 24V and 40VA, you do have to use IRC a
22R wire wound high current resistor which they supply @ £9.99.

Both power supply and resistor can be bought cheaper from 3rd party sellers
as I have done and if required I can post details with both items bought on
Amazon.

Finally, if you have any Echo devices do not bother with a chime you can
get Alexa to inform you of persons at the door or even if there motion in
the camera’s range.

Richard

[Brian Gaff]

I have heard a few of these when in intercom mode. Not very impressed.
Surely you can make the audio better than the squarkyness thy seem to
create?

Brian

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[rick]

On 12/10/2022 10:56, leen...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Ring doorbells are on offer at the moment so was thinking of buying one. At the moment, I have a bog standard bell push connected via cat6 to a battery powered bell. It goes via a central comms room in case I every changed it to be a PoE camera type thing.
>
> Looking at the Ring options, there is the elite one which is PoE but is a fortune, So, was thinking I could get a normal wired one and use the cat6 cable to power it -i.e. transformer at one end of the cat6 and Ring doorbell the other. Networking will obviously by WiFi in this model.
>

Been looking at options on Video doorbell so far EUFY 2k seems the
leader, as local video storage, comes with a chime and no monthly
subscription.
Plus can be battery or wired (8-24V)

[leen...@yahoo.co.uk]

I didn't see mention of the resistor before. Where does this need to be wired in? Do you have any links to what you bought by any chance :)?

[leen...@yahoo.co.uk]

> >
> I can’t comment on a Ring one directly but we have a mains powered Eufy
> version which is similar. The supplied cable (between the ‘wall wart’ and
> push button bit) is certainly similar in gauge, if not finer, that the
> wires in a CAT 6 cable. It is a while since I installed ours but I think
> the supplied wire was about 3 m long.
>
> The Eufy version offers the same functions with the advantage you don’t
> need to subscribe for a service.

Oh hadn't realised you have to pay a subscription to replay video. Will take a look at the Eufy ones too then.

[Tricky Dicky]

These are the PSU and resistor I bought for my Ring Doorbell 2

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07ZNGDYK3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07PFHLVW1/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Richard

[Tricky Dicky]

This photo shows the resistor mounted in a standard back box the white wire
coming down is from the PSU which is plugged into a socket I have in the
loft (it needed an extension soldered on to reach). The box is on the
internal wall with the doorbell directly behind outside.

On the matter of the subscription which I think is about £3 a month. The
cameras have limited memory to store videos the subscription allows you to
view store and download videos for 28 days, just check other models
capability.

Richard

[Tricky Dicky]

Of course it helps if you remember to attach the photo


https://www.dropbox.com/s/xyqg2l981t4eg5k/2022-10-15%2019.43.42.jpg?dl=0

Sorry

Richard