[OT] Octopus Energy rates for Avro transferees

[Spike]

It's the Flexible Octopus October 2021 v2 tariff:

Electricity

Unit rate: 21.41 p/kWh

Standing charge: 25.66 p/day


Gas

Unit rate: 4.15 p/kWh

Standing charge: 26.11 p/day


--
Spike

[SH]

Thats quite a wide difference between the gas and electricity unit rates
of almost 5 times.


At those prices, its almost tempting to build and run a CHP engine that
will run on NG to generate your own electricity and hot water......

[SH]

see https://www.2-g.com/en/natural-gas-chp/ as an example of a CHP
plant running on NG.....

[Andy Burns]

Spike wrote:
>
> It's the Flexible Octopus October 2021 v2 tariff:

On their tariffs page I can't see *any* with the word flexible in their name

But think yourself lucky you didn't get the "Goodlord Tenant October 2021 v2"
with economy7

40.22p and 25p for day/night units

[Spike]

Pop along here:

https://octopus.energy/tariffs/

...and overwrite the word Postcode at the bottom with your, er,
postcode. Select Filters then Flexible.

HTH


--
Spike

[AJH]

Capital cost would kill it with those units in a domestic dwelling.

Back in the late 70s a chap at the alternative energy place in Wales ran
a morris minor engine and generator with full heat recovery from exhaust
and coolant until someone ran it dry while he was on holiday. Later the
calor totem was shown on tv, it was a fiat 127 engine running an
asynchronous generator Quite a few were sold but engine life was the
problem and again they were too powerful for a single home, I know the
firm I occasionally worked for came across one running a hotel in Scotland.

I helped with installing a marinised Petter diesel with heat recovery
for a remote classroom and the fuel cost just about matched the value
of electricity produced but I know we could beat that seriously now with
a permanent magnet genset and inverter.

Then there were the couple of different Stirling engined units which
Briish Gas trialled and one of which was due to be put into a few homes
in Manchester but this was aborted. The Stirling ones should have had
similar (longer than internal combustion engines) life to heat pumps as
the units were similarly hermetically sealed, like a fridge, but only
gave out 1kW of electricity when run.

Now with the demand for EV charging I suspect the balance of heat to
electric power is better suited to a single user. Also engines are much
longer lived now too plus the modern electronics in inverters as used
for solar panels make it attractive to run an engine at its most
economical speed for the demand and rectify the ac and chop it back to
synchronous ac for the house.

Personally I would like to try this with the engine and permanent magnet
motor from a Honda civic whose NIMH battery pack had failed and caused
the car to be scrapped.

Not sure how one would get round the Gassafe requirements for
connecting to the main though plus I cannot afford an EV to make it
worthwhile.

[SH]

> Not sure how one would get round the Gassafe  requirements for
> connecting to the main though plus I cannot afford an EV to make it
> worthwhile.

Use a Cooker quick connect gas hose?

You would want a flexible gas hose between rigid fixed gas pipe and a
vibrating metal engine. :-)

[Andy Burns]

SH wrote:

> At those prices, its almost tempting to build and run a CHP engine that will run
> on NG to generate your own electricity and hot water......

Wasn't Germany trying to promote microCHP for as many households as possible?
Did they get anywhere with take-up, how's it working out for them with current
gas prices?

[AJH]

On 19/10/2021 18:15, SH wrote:
> Use a Cooker quick connect gas hose?

Even if that met the regulations I doubt it would provide the power for
a 7.5 kW EV charger and even that would require the engine to run too
long so maybe 15kW would be better. If you could get the thermal
conversion up to 30% (could be more with a SI engine running optimally
but remember no ECU controlling the mixture now as the gas must be
premixed in the manifold so no injectors) that means providing 45kW of
gas, much more than a cooker needs.

[newshound]

On 19/10/2021 12:01, Spike wrote:
>

This is what Shell says having taken over my Daligas account:

You’re moving onto our Flexible 6 tariff, which includes 100% renewable
electricity* as standard. The average price of this tariff, based on a
medium-sized UK household, using Ofgem’s national average consumption
rates, is £1,277 per year†.

This is a standard variable tariff and the cheapest we have available,
given today’s wholesale costs. This tariff is protected by Ofgem’s price
cap and rates are fixed until 1 April 2022, when the price cap will be
revised. This tariff has no exit fees.

We’ll send you more information on your tariff rates in the next few days.

And this is what E.On says about my Enstroga:

We've moved you on to our Next Flex tariff for now - which means:

You'll pay a standing charge of 29.72p per day and 21.69p/kWh for each
unit of electricity.

Prices include VAT and are guaranteed until 31 March 2022, based on
paying your bill in full each month. If you set up a Direct Debit,
you'll benefit from lower prices than shown here.

[Theo]

No idea, but AIUI a problem with CHP is the mismatch between heat and
electricity demand. If you're grid connected there's always electricity
demand and you want to generate as much as possible. But in a domestic
situation you only want the boiler running occasionally to keep the heat up
to temperature, which means the electricity output is bursty based on your
thermostat coming on and off. Plus I don't think they had quite scaled down
to domestic size (especially given it's much easier to reduce your heat
demand by insulation) which meant they were quite aggressive when installed.

It might make more sense for commercial premises where there's a constant
low grade heat demand that would be burning gas anyway, say some drying
processes.

It seems the current CHP units are cracking gas to make hydrogen and then
using that in a fuel cell - it may be these are more efficient on a small
scale than rotating plant.

Theo

[RJH]

On 19 Oct 2021 at 20:05:53 BST, "newshound" <news...@stevejqr.plus.com>
wrote:

Mmmm - these are the charges I jotted down when Eon directed me to their site.
It was difficult to tell which tariff they'd put me on so I assumed the
cheapest they offer - 'Eon Nextflex':

Unit rate - All/Day (per kWh) 20.08

Which is pretty much identical to my old Igloo tariff . . .


--
Cheers, Rob

[Andy Burns]

Theo wrote:

> It seems the current CHP units are cracking gas to make hydrogen and then
> using that in a fuel cell - it may be these are more efficient on a small
> scale than rotating plant.

ISTR the microCHP units use a scroll expander, presumably the opposite of a
scroll compressor in a heat pump?

[newshound]

When the UK electricity generating industry shed technical staff after
privatisation, one of the senior managers who took the fairly generous
severance packages had plans to develop microCHP using the turbocharger
turbine used in commercial vehicles for the "heat to movement" stage. I
don't think anything came of it though.

[RJH]

Oops - missed a bit off:

Gas
Electricity
--
Cheers, Rob

[RJH]

How odd, try again again

Gas
Elec
--
Cheers, Rob

[Chris J Dixon]

Slightly lower for my postcode.

Interestingly, for the first time in my experience, for E7 rates,
the daily charge is higher, 23.85p cf 23.76p, so just over 30p
per year. Why bother?

Perhaps it is a data error.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
ch...@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1

Plant amazing Acers.

[Michael Chare]

So have you managed to setup a Direct Debit by E.on as the price is a
bit cheaper?

[Andy Burns]

Michael Chare wrote:

> So have you managed to setup a Direct Debit by E.on as the price is a bit cheaper?

EDF seem to be dragging their feet with the Utility Point customer transfer, all
these Daligas/Enstroga/Avro mentioned in this thread went bust weeks later, but
all I've heard is a "goodbye" email from UP and a "hello" email from EDF, no
actual tariff or account details.

[alan_m]

I've only just received tariff details on the Avro/Octopus transfer via
email although I known about them by other means beforehand.
Octopus have indicated that personal details will have been transferred
over by next Monday and I will get my final Avro bill by the end of the
month.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

[newshound]

I've set up a "starter" direct debit with E.On because they claim that
will give a lower tariff, but have not had a response yet. I thought I
would wait until the comms have settled down before investigating
whether I can get a better dual fuel deal than the present two single ones.

[John J]

On Tuesday, 19 October 2021 at 22:57:23 UTC+1, Theo wrote:
> Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> > SH wrote:
> >
> > > At those prices, its almost tempting to build and run a CHP engine that will run
> > > on NG to generate your own electricity and hot water......
> >
> > Wasn't Germany trying to promote microCHP for as many households as possible?
> > Did they get anywhere with take-up, how's it working out for them with current
> > gas prices?
> No idea, but AIUI a problem with CHP is the mismatch between heat and
> electricity demand. If you're grid connected there's always electricity
> demand and you want to generate as much as possible. But in a domestic
> situation you only want the boiler running occasionally to keep the heat up
> to temperature, which means the electricity output is bursty based on your
> thermostat coming on and off. Plus I don't think they had quite scaled down
> to domestic size (especially given it's much easier to reduce your heat
> demand by insulation) which meant they were quite aggressive when installed.
>

Forte Hotels went into CHP but via odd contractual arrangements whereby they had to pay the CHP provider for heat and power whether they used the heat or not. I came across a big fan cooled radiator unit outside behind one I visited which was purely to keep the engine running. The maintenance guy was distinctly unimpressed but regional office had insisted the installation went ahead.

[Andy Burns]

Andy Burns wrote:

> EDF seem to be dragging their feet with the Utility Point customer transfer

I can't have been the only person think that (and maybe phoning them to check?)
yesterday they put an extra mention on their website

"We also want to reassure you we're on the case
to set you up in our systems"

[Ricardo Candeias]

My flexible Avro with Octopus today

Electric:
32.81p/kWh
44.12 standing charge

Gas:
10.24p/kWh
26.84 standing charge

what are your's ?

[Andy Burns]

Ricardo Candeias wrote:

> My flexible Avro with Octopus today
>
> Electric:
> 32.81p/kWh
> 44.12 standing charge
>
> Gas:
> 10.24p/kWh
> 26.84 standing charge

They only claim to be £10/year cheaper than the cap for an average
house, almost identical to my EDF prices ...

Electric:
32.80p/kWh
45.76p/day

Gas:
10.237p/kWh
28.48p/day

[John Rumm]

Gas 10.31/kWh, 26.84p/day

Electric 47.90p/kWh (Day rate), 16.09p/kWh (night rate), 37.38p/day

--
Cheers,

John.

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