New wood window, beading or linseed putty?
Dorothy Bradbury
approved decorator (nearly typed destructor, but that was re cups :-)
A rose bush had physically grown into the putty on the bottom of one
window (as it does :-) and opened a gap between putty & window.
Inside/outside solid, middle channel rotted including mortice so bin.
Sticking pins in to test fascia missed that - test pins along the glass-line
conversely would have exited a small area of the frame right bottom :-)
Joiner's done a new window, big hinges, beading, primered for £25.
Hinges look like brass, not passivated, perhaps wishful thinking?
Q: I assume the white primer is an acrylic undercoat? (looks dusty)
---- do I overpaint with ICI blue-smelly-primer-preservative?
---- or do I bypass that and go on to the #2 trade undercoat?
Q: It is better to use the white-flat beading, or linseed putty?
---- it's a tall narrow side-opening window, thicker chunky glass rebate
Rose bush is now short narrow & restrained by T304 screws :-)
--
DB.
Tony Halmarack
<dorothy....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>Just had the house repainted, 1/2/3 Dulux Weathershield by an ICI
>approved decorator (nearly typed destructor, but that was re cups :-)
>
>A rose bush had physically grown into the putty on the bottom of one
>window (as it does :-) and opened a gap between putty & window.
>Inside/outside solid, middle channel rotted including mortice so bin.
>Sticking pins in to test fascia missed that - test pins along the glass-line
>conversely would have exited a small area of the frame right bottom :-)
>
>Joiner's done a new window, big hinges, beading, primered for £25.
>Hinges look like brass, not passivated, perhaps wishful thinking?
>
>Q: I assume the white primer is an acrylic undercoat? (looks dusty)
>---- do I overpaint with ICI blue-smelly-primer-preservative?
I don't know how effective primer-preservative would be on top of
existing primer. Don't think it could do much harm. Best time to treat
wood with preservative is at the bare wood stage.
>---- or do I bypass that and go on to the #2 trade undercoat?
I'd personally follow a primer coat with undercoat.
>Q: It is better to use the white-flat beading, or linseed putty?
>---- it's a tall narrow side-opening window, thicker chunky glass rebate
I quite like glazing with putty, it's quite therapeutic. The last
glazing I did with beading was on a teak porch. Teak beading bedded
into appropriately colored mastic seemed like a pretty impervious
choice. 10 years on, no sign of deterioration.
I don't see how beading would be any less effective on a softwood
window, if that's what you have. From a d-i-y standpoint the only
demanding bit is mitreing the corners. That is, if you're going to
take it all around.
>Rose bush is now short narrow & restrained by T304 screws :-)
That's the way to treat 'em. :-)
--
Tony Halmarack
Drop the EGG to email me.
Dorothy Bradbury
>
> I'd personally follow a primer coat with undercoat.
Noted.
> I don't see how beading would be any less effective on a softwood
> window, if that's what you have. From a d-i-y standpoint the only
> demanding bit is mitreing the corners. That is, if you're going to
> take it all around.
No knots anywhere, so could be red cedar?
The beading has already been cut & primered for me, but I note it has
hard-edges (not rounded) which isn't so ideal with paint, plus my history
with hammers near glass isn't good :-) So I may go with fresh putty.
I'm tempted to try the old window frame with an opaque woodstain, the
overcoatable kind, to see how that does in comparison to weathershield.
Sikkens Rubbol AZ is on a part-iroko/part-softwood-primered 8ft gate,
an overcoatable paint - gate used to rot in 2-3yrs, now hardwood frame.
So will be interesting to see how those 3 compare as a test.
Thanks.
--
DB.
Jerry Built
> Dorothy Bradbury wrote:
> > Joiner's done a new window, big hinges, beading, primered for
> > thinking?
Scrape some of the back of a hinge, if it's hard to tell. If
you look at the end of the hinge, where the knuckle ends, you
can usu. see by looking - a brass hinge may well have machining
marks, and the pin should be almost indistinguishable from the
metal of the hinge. "Brass plated" hinges are generally more
poorly made and are "looser".
> > Q: I assume the white primer is an acrylic undercoat? (looks
> > dusty)
Ask the man that made the window :~).
> >---- do I overpaint with ICI blue-smelly-primer-preservative?
Primer, undercoat, gloss (coats) is normal.
> I don't know how effective primer-preservative would be on top of
> existing primer. Don't think it could do much harm. Best time to
> treat wood with preservative is at the bare wood stage.
Yup - however, maintenance should mean that it's not needed!
> >---- or do I bypass that and go on to the #2 trade undercoat?
>=20
> I'd personally follow a primer coat with undercoat.
>=20
> >Q: It is better to use the white-flat beading, or linseed putty?
> >---- it's a tall narrow side-opening window, thicker chunky glass rebate
>=20
> I quite like glazing with putty, it's quite therapeutic. The last
> glazing I did with beading was on a teak porch. Teak beading bedded
> into appropriately colored mastic seemed like a pretty impervious
> choice. 10 years on, no sign of deterioration.
> I don't see how beading would be any less effective on a softwood
> window, if that's what you have. From a d-i-y standpoint the only
> demanding bit is mitreing the corners. That is, if you're going to
> take it all around.
The problem with beading is that it is more prone to leaks and
rot. It should be secured with non-rusting pins to prevent rust
bleed through the paint. I like putty!
J.B.
Dorothy Bradbury
> you look at the end of the hinge, where the knuckle ends, you
> can usu. see by looking - a brass hinge may well have machining
> marks, and the pin should be almost indistinguishable from the
> metal of the hinge. "Brass plated" hinges are generally more
> poorly made and are "looser".
It is brass-plated, L-shaped. I may try and pick up a stainless
one since I'm slowly converting them all. A lot of windows are
never opened (can't reach) and hinges seize solid. Those that
were converted some years ago, never opened, work like new.
> The problem with beading is that it is more prone to leaks and
> rot. It should be secured with non-rusting pins to prevent rust
> bleed through the paint. I like putty!
Hmmm, Beading End Grain. Putty it will be.
Done if we ever get dry weather again.
Could be the fore-runner of an invasion by rubber ducks...
--
DB.
Steven Briggs
>---- it's a tall narrow side-opening window, thicker chunky glass rebate
>
Putty is horrible ancient stuff.
Go to your local glaziers and get a roll of "Flexistrip" (white or
brown). Its a mastic strip on a roll, quick, clean, easy to use and
works a treat.
Failing that I've had good results with the acrylic "putty" in the
cartridge tubes.
--
Steve
G&M
"Dorothy Bradbury" <dorothy....@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:o7fQc.1256$1Z1...@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net...
> Joiner's done a new window, big hinges, beading, primered for £25.
> Hinges look like brass, not passivated, perhaps wishful thinking?
>
> ---- it's a tall narrow side-opening window, thicker chunky glass rebate
As it's a new window it is supposed to be double glazed to meet part L of
the building regs. And if so, it must be beaded.
Jerry Built
> Putty is horrible ancient stuff.
Well, it's been used for a long time... I don't know that it's
horrible, though. It also lasts well when applied and maintained
correctly.
G&M wrote:
> As it's a new window it is supposed to be double glazed to meet
> part L of the building regs.
That ain't necessarily so.
J.B.
N. Thornton
> Steven Briggs wrote:
> > Putty is horrible ancient stuff.
>
> Well, it's been used for a long time... I don't know that it's
> horrible, though. It also lasts well when applied and maintained
> correctly.
I would think for external use putty would be by far the winner. Its
very long lived indeed, and no leaks get past it to the wood for a
long long long time. Cant think of anything else that performs so
well.
Getting it to look nice is easy with a wet knife.
Regards, NT
stuart noble
N. Thornton wrote in message ...
>Jerry Built <jerry...@ziplip.com> wrote in message
news:<0Q9Q5IYF3820...@anonymous.poster>...
>> Steven Briggs wrote:
>> > Putty is horrible ancient stuff.
>>
>> Well, it's been used for a long time... I don't know that it's
>> horrible, though. It also lasts well when applied and maintained
>> correctly.
>
>I would think for external use putty would be by far the winner. Its
>very long lived indeed, and no leaks get past it to the wood for a
>long long long time. Cant think of anything else that performs so
>well.
within a couple of hours. Linseed putty dries out in any but the most
sheltered and shady locations. IME the major cause of rotting in windows.
Dave Plowman (News)
stuart noble <stuart'noble...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> Acrylic putty is infinitely superior. Stays flexible and can be painted
> within a couple of hours. Linseed putty dries out in any but the most
> sheltered and shady locations. IME the major cause of rotting in windows.
Since everything 'lets go' of wood after a while, including all types of
paint, what's so special about acrylic putty?
--
*It IS as bad as you think, and they ARE out to get you.
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Dave Plowman (News)
Dorothy Bradbury <dorothy....@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> The beading has already been cut & primered for me, but I note it has
> hard-edges (not rounded) which isn't so ideal with paint, plus my history
> with hammers near glass isn't good :-) So I may go with fresh putty.
When nailing beads in place, the trick is to keep the hammer firmly pushed
against the glass. You might find it easier to use a small club hammer
held by the head.
And don't forget to use the same trick when sinking the nail heads with a
punch.
--
*The beatings will continue until morale improves *
stuart noble
Dave Plowman (News) wrote in message <4cdc370...@davenoise.co.uk>...
>In article <2nrik1F...@uni-berlin.de>,
> stuart noble <stuart'noble...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> Acrylic putty is infinitely superior. Stays flexible and can be painted
>> within a couple of hours. Linseed putty dries out in any but the most
>> sheltered and shady locations. IME the major cause of rotting in windows.
>
>Since everything 'lets go' of wood after a while, including all types of
>paint, what's so special about acrylic putty?
prevents this) it goes rock hard and falls out. Acrylic stays flexible.
Jerry Built
> If linseed putty is allowed to dry (and only the paint that
> covers it prevents this) it goes rock hard and falls out.
> Acrylic stays flexible.
M a i n t e n a n c e ! I'm "doing up" some sash windows at the
moment, they've been neglected, so it's a matter of taking them
apart, cleaning the timber, and putting them back together. The
glazing has only ever been putty, and they are still in good
condition, despite at least 20 years of nil maintenance. Perhaps
the linseed oil in the putty helped preserve them.
J.B.
Dave Plowman (News)
In my limited experience ordinary putty will survive several external
decorations before requiring replacement - and it's cheap and easy to do
so.
I've not tried acrylic, but I can't see how it will stick to wood to
prevent water ingress any better than acrylic paint. Ie, not very well.
It's the wood itself which moves and has surface changes which makes it
detach from the substance - and this will happen outdoors even with two
pieces of wood glued together with any type of glue - eventually.
--
*Procrastinate now
stuart noble
Jerry Built wrote in message ...
Sliding sashes usually have very little room for putty and, the thinner the
layer, the less chance of it staying soft. I'd certainly use acrylic in this
case.
I've seen thirties casement windows where the original putty at the top and
sides was still soft but, on bottom rail, was shot to pieces. With a half
inch rebate you stand a better chance.
stuart noble
Dave Plowman (News) wrote in message <4cdcbb5...@davenoise.co.uk>...
>I've not tried acrylic, but I can't see how it will stick to wood to
>prevent water ingress any better than acrylic paint. Ie, not very well.
coating will do the job on its own, the wood has to be reasonably firm for
the coating to form a proper film and not lose its solvent prematurely. Wood
hardener (polyester in some form) is your only man.
Dave Plowman (News)
> >prevent water ingress any better than acrylic paint. Ie, not very well.
> If the surface won't take it, end of story, whatever you're putting on.
> No coating will do the job on its own, the wood has to be reasonably
> firm for the coating to form a proper film and not lose its solvent
> prematurely. Wood hardener (polyester in some form) is your only man.
That will lose adhesion as well. It all depends on the timescale and
weather conditions.
Like I say, I've not found putty applied correctly to have a short life -
it certainly lasts as well as the paint around it.
And I'm not sure acrylic has been around for long enough to be sure it
lasts any better in practice.
--
*Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups