random orbit sanders and 1/2 sheet orbital sanders
Stephen
How good are random orbital sanders? I bought a Bosch green 1/3 sheet
orbital sander many years ago but it takes forever. I've read the
excellent uk.diy power tool FAQ and it agrees that orbital sanders are
slow and suggests that random orbital sanders are much faster. I
remember borrowing a random orbital sander (green Bosch 400
something?) a couple of years ago to remove some paint but I don't
remember it being that good. However it was a while ago and I can't
remember the details; perhaps my technique was wrong or I was using
the wrong type of paper?
In addition to removing paint from wood, I've also got a wall I would
like to give a quick once-over before papering, would you recommend a
random orbital sander for this or would a 1/2 sheet be better as it
would cover a bigger area at once? I don't see many 1/2 sheet sanders
for sale at the moment, have they gone out of fashion? Is it worth
buying a known brand like Bosch or do the Aldi/Titans etc. do as good
a job?
Thanks,
Stephen.
RubberBiker
finishing, but if you need real bite then dual-action sanders have it
(at a price):
http://www.axminster.co.uk/category-Dual-Action-Sanders-206929.htm
(though in "turbo mode" they're really aimed at *shaping* wood, rather
than sanding it)
Selection of random orbit here, I can recommend the Metabo:
http://www.axminster.co.uk/category-Random-Orbit-Sanders-206928.htm
You may want to consider the weight if you're using them on a vertical
surface.
John Rumm
> How good are random orbital sanders? I bought a Bosch green 1/3 sheet
Pretty good IME.
> orbital sander many years ago but it takes forever. I've read the
> excellent uk.diy power tool FAQ and it agrees that orbital sanders are
> slow and suggests that random orbital sanders are much faster. I
> remember borrowing a random orbital sander (green Bosch 400
PEX400 probably...
> something?) a couple of years ago to remove some paint but I don't
> remember it being that good. However it was a while ago and I can't
> remember the details; perhaps my technique was wrong or I was using
> the wrong type of paper?
The thing to remember with paint stripping, is it is never going to be
that fast however you sand it. It tends to clog paper quickly. A random
orbit at a slowish speed with a coarse (40 or 60 grit) paper will
probably work best.
The only faster options would be a flap disc in an angle grinder - but
that will be much harder to control and have a good chance of gouging.
> In addition to removing paint from wood, I've also got a wall I would
> like to give a quick once-over before papering, would you recommend a
> random orbital sander for this or would a 1/2 sheet be better as it
> would cover a bigger area at once? I don't see many 1/2 sheet sanders
Half sheet will probably give you the flattest overall result due to the
larger pad size. Other than that you are probably better off with a
random orbit.
> for sale at the moment, have they gone out of fashion? Is it worth
> buying a known brand like Bosch or do the Aldi/Titans etc. do as good
> a job?
For 1/2 sheet you will need to look at the more professional tools. If
you plan on doing much sanding then it is worth spending extra on them
since they tend to get much smoother and cause less fatigue and
vibration at your end of it.
Some RO sanders have selectable orbit sizes - for faster stock removal
or finer finishing.
--
Cheers,
John.
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The Medway Handyman
> Hello,
>
> How good are random orbital sanders?
The mutts nuts IMO.
With a 40 disc they give excellent stock removal, approaching a belt sander
but with 100% control. You can go up to 240 grit for fine finishing.
Like garlic bread - the way forward.
--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
Stephen
<see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
>PEX400 probably...
Is that a good model to get or are there better ones?
>The thing to remember with paint stripping, is it is never going to be
>that fast however you sand it. It tends to clog paper quickly. A random
>orbit at a slowish speed with a coarse (40 or 60 grit) paper will
>probably work best.
Perhaps I was just impatient? I've got some skirting board to sand; I
filled over the nails and knots with wood filler but I put too much
on! What's the best device for sanding that?
>Half sheet will probably give you the flattest overall result due to the
>larger pad size. Other than that you are probably better off with a
>random orbit.
I notice there are quarter sheet sanders now. When would you use
those? Surely for small work you would be better with a delta sander
to get into the corners?
Is the jump from 1/3 sheet to 1/2 sheet noticeable? Does it make any
difference to speed or quality of finish?
Thanks again.
John Rumm
> On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 18:24:52 +0100, John Rumm
> <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
>
>> PEX400 probably...
>
> Is that a good model to get or are there better ones?
Its a reasonably decent budget one. I have one, and find it ok if not
doing too much in one go.
>> The thing to remember with paint stripping, is it is never going to be
>> that fast however you sand it. It tends to clog paper quickly. A random
>> orbit at a slowish speed with a coarse (40 or 60 grit) paper will
>> probably work best.
>
> Perhaps I was just impatient? I've got some skirting board to sand; I
> filled over the nails and knots with wood filler but I put too much
> on! What's the best device for sanding that?
The RO will do that nicely. The thing to remember is that you don't
always get the fastest removal rate with the maximum speed - sometimes a
slower rate, coarse paper and gentle pressure will take off material
quickly.
>> Half sheet will probably give you the flattest overall result due to the
>> larger pad size. Other than that you are probably better off with a
>> random orbit.
>
> I notice there are quarter sheet sanders now. When would you use
> those? Surely for small work you would be better with a delta sander
> to get into the corners?
Probably nice for furniture making. Quite often you might be sanding
smaller stuff before assembly. The light easy to handle sander can be an
advantage - especially if it can be held with one had comfortably (i.e.
hand resting on, rather than needing to grip and support the body as you
would a delta)
With the exception of the Fein multimaster, most delta sanders have
fairly poor sanding performance IME. Hence they are only worth using for
the corners, and one would want to switch to something more effective
when space permits.
> Is the jump from 1/3 sheet to 1/2 sheet noticeable? Does it make any
> difference to speed or quality of finish?
1/2" is bigger and heavier. You can cover an area faster. Some are
designed with a bigger orbit size that makes for faster removal (Makita
do one with a 5mm orbit IIRC). You will get a slightly flatter result
with a big sander, since it will not ride any curves as well. Rather
like using a longer plane...
The Medway Handyman
Never used a Fein, but my Bosch PMF180 copy is without doubt the best delta
sander I have tried - streets ahead. The rubber backing pads do wear badly
mind you - does that happen with the Fein?
John Rumm
What the velcro covered things? They last quite well if you take care to
not overheat a corner - at which point it can start losing hooks, and
then the paper does not stay put as well.
Stephen
<see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
>With the exception of the Fein multimaster, most delta sanders have
>fairly poor sanding performance IME.
I've got the green Bosch one, perhaps that's why it takes me ages?
Dave Plowman (News)
> Is that a good model to get or are there better ones?
I have one and it's fine. But got a larger one from Lidl for a fraction of
what it cost (many years ago) which also has far cheaper discs. I hardly
ever use the Bosch now.
--
*I pretend to work. - they pretend to pay me.
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
John Rumm
To clarify, I was talking specifically about *delta* sanders there -
i.e. the ones with a small triangular pad, designed for corner work etc.
The green bosch is better than some of the breed (I tried a nutool one
once - it made lots of noise and vibration, but never seemed to actually
sand anything!) - but still slow. The multimaster (and judging by TMH's
comments) the various MM clones, perform much better than the
traditional delta sander due to the different type and speed of motion
they employ.
The Medway Handyman
Ah. Exactly what happens with the Bosch.
Jules
>>> Never used a Fein, but my Bosch PMF180 copy is without doubt the
>>> best delta sander I have tried - streets ahead. The rubber backing
>>> pads do wear badly mind you - does that happen with the Fein?
>>
>> What the velcro covered things? They last quite well if you take care
>> to not overheat a corner - at which point it can start losing hooks,
>> and then the paper does not stay put as well.
>
> Ah. Exactly what happens with the Bosch.
I've found with mine (a cheapy Ryobi thing* bought on a whim) that it's
actually the sandpaper material which separates from the velcro backing...
I've had that happen on a couple, now (3M pads, I believe). Actual hook
portion fine, so far.
* does the dust collection actually work on the better brands / models?
cheers
Jules
Stephen
<see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
>To clarify, I was talking specifically about *delta* sanders there -
>i.e. the ones with a small triangular pad, designed for corner work etc.
So was I! Sorry for the confusion, I have both a green Bosch 1/3 sheet
sander and a green Bosch delta sander. My earlier post was about the
1/3 sheet sander and this later post about the delta sander but I
didn't make that clear.
>The green bosch is better than some of the breed
That's reassuring. Because it's small and light I have been tending to
pick that up and use it first, however, I will now follow the advice
in your earlier post and only use it for corners and use the 1/3 sheet
sander for everything else (whilst looking into the 1/2 sheet and
random orbital options).
Thanks again.
Stephen
<davi...@nospamblueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>Exactly what happens with the Bosch.
Is that a blue Bosch? I think there was a post here or in the FAQ
saying that the velcro backing pads must be considered a consumable. I
understand this velcro fastening is also used on the random orbital
sanders; do these suffer the same problem?
By the way, what sandpaper do you use? I have been using the
Silverline triangles from Toolstation, simply because they were cheap.
However, I find that they have to be changed frequently so I do wonder
whether it would be more economical to use a more expensive brand that
lasted longer?
Thanks again,
Stephen.
John Rumm
On the MM its not bad if you hook up the vacuum cowel, fibre washer and
use the punched pads. Its not perfect, but is about as clean as you are
going to get a sander. There is something about the oscillatory action
(rather than orbital) that seems to throw less into the air in the first
place - it tends to pour off the thing you are sanding in a nice little
waterfall.
Jules
>> * does the dust collection actually work on the better brands / models?
>
> On the MM its not bad if you hook up the vacuum cowel, fibre washer and
> use the punched pads. Its not perfect, but is about as clean as you are
> going to get a sander. There is something about the oscillatory action
> (rather than orbital) that seems to throw less into the air in the first
> place - it tends to pour off the thing you are sanding in a nice little
> waterfall.
Yes, at least it doesn't spread it everywhere, I suppose. It's just that
given how much actually makes it into the bag on mine vs. how much I sweep
up elsewhere, I can't really see why they bothered :-)
John Rumm
> On Wed, 02 Sep 2009 17:35:52 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
> <davi...@nospamblueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Exactly what happens with the Bosch.
>
> Is that a blue Bosch? I think there was a post here or in the FAQ
I expect he means the PMF180 multi tool (green). There is a blue
cordless version that came out recently.
> saying that the velcro backing pads must be considered a consumable. I
> understand this velcro fastening is also used on the random orbital
> sanders; do these suffer the same problem?
Not really - much bigger area to wear out and you are less likely to
overwork a small part of the disc.
> By the way, what sandpaper do you use? I have been using the
> Silverline triangles from Toolstation, simply because they were cheap.
For the multimaster I use the Fein ones - they last amazingly well - I
bought a few extra packs with the tool and have still not finished the
ones that came with it. Its also worth noting they are not quite the
same shape as "normal" delta pads - they have a radius on the edge such
that there is no lateral movement at the sides of the pad.
> However, I find that they have to be changed frequently so I do wonder
> whether it would be more economical to use a more expensive brand that
> lasted longer?
Not really used ordinary delta machines enough to comment. TS alox pads
seem about par for the course on the RO though.
Stephen
<jules.rich...@remove.this.gmail.com> wrote:
>Yes, at least it doesn't spread it everywhere, I suppose. It's just that
>given how much actually makes it into the bag on mine vs. how much I sweep
>up elsewhere, I can't really see why they bothered :-)
I used to empty the dust box on my sander, it certainly filled up
though I can't remember if any escaped and fell to the floor. I've
since bought an adaptor to fit the sander to the vacuum and now it
catches pretty much everything.
I think I read (in the FAQ?) that the system serves two purposes: not
only to collect sawdust but also to draw air through the sander and
cool the motor.
I have had a couple of pads where the velcro stays on and the paper
falls off but I always thought they were bad batches.