Replacing toilet syphon?
D.M.Chapman
Day off work tomorrow so as I'm the only one at home it seems the ideal
time to sort out the loo while it's still only hard to flush, and before
it becomes impossible :)
Close coupled (I think, cistern sits on the back of the pan with no pipe)
toilet - pretty standard AFAIK.
toolstation appear to have two options:
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Plumbing/Toilet+Fittings/Dual+Flush+Syphon+8/d20/sd2835/p77721
a) how do I tell which of the two I need? What is the measurement - height of
the syphon?
b) is that the correct thing? It looks like it has a large plastic nut on
the bottom - how does that work with the cistern? Is there a hollow in the
bottom that this will be hidden up in?
c) what's an Epson syphon?
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Plumbing/Toilet+Fittings/Epson+Syphon+8/d20/sd2835/p52164
c) to fit it I'll need to remove the cistern. I assume there is some seal
on the bottom that I'll need to replace. Should I get one of
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Plumbing/Toilet+Fittings/Close+Coupling+Kit+Metal/d20/sd2835/p85615
?
Pointers and tips before I start? :)
Ta,
Darren
Adrian Brentnall
If you can find a 'real' plumbers' supplies place - then yuo may be able
to buy just the diaphragm (which is the likely cause of the 'unreliable
flush' problem.
I've done this on our two toilets here - process is generally like this...
- turn off the water that supplies the WC
- flush the toilet
- empty the remaining water from the cistern (sponge works well)
- remove the flush handle and associated mechanism
- unscrew the two screws at the back of the cistern holding the cistern
to the wall (often easier said than done - a short stubby screwdriver
can help)
- undo the two nuts or wingnuts holding the cistern to the pan
- lift the cistern off the pan and sit it on the floor on some olf towels
- undo the large plastic nut, which retains bracket that holds the two
bolts that secure the cistern to the pan
- remove the syphon mechanism
At this point - either take the whole lot to your supplier and get a
matching replacement, or take out the plastic diaphragm, and get a
replacement for that.
Then refit the new / repaired siphon mechanism
and 'reassembly is the reverse of disassembly' as they used to say in
the Haynes Manuals...
You might need a new big foam washer that the big plastic nut fits into
- or you might be able to re-use the original one
Hope this helps
Adrian
D.M.Chapman
Adrian Brentnall <adr...@ambquality.co.uk> wrote:
>HI Darren
>
>If you can find a 'real' plumbers' supplies place - then yuo may be able
>to buy just the diaphragm (which is the likely cause of the 'unreliable
>flush' problem.
I suspect it is - but I'd quite like to replace it with a more efficient
dual flush syphon if possible. We've been moved onto a water meter so if I've
got to take it all apart I might as well take the opportunity to fit one
that's a bit less wasteful!
>I've done this on our two toilets here - process is generally like this...
>
>- turn off the water that supplies the WC
>- flush the toilet
>- empty the remaining water from the cistern (sponge works well)
>- remove the flush handle and associated mechanism
>- unscrew the two screws at the back of the cistern holding the cistern
>to the wall (often easier said than done - a short stubby screwdriver
>can help)
>- undo the two nuts or wingnuts holding the cistern to the pan
>- lift the cistern off the pan and sit it on the floor on some olf towels
>- undo the large plastic nut, which retains bracket that holds the two
>bolts that secure the cistern to the pan
Ah, so this is the thing that toolstation list. Sounds like I shouldn't
need a new one of those then.
>You might need a new big foam washer that the big plastic nut fits into
>- or you might be able to re-use the original one
one of
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Plumbing/Washers+Fixings/Doughnut+CC+Kit+Washer/d20/sd2703/p39353
?
For that price I'll pick one up in case :-)
Darren
Adrian Brentnall
On 21/09/2010 21:07, D.M.Chapman wrote:
> In article<i7b22v$pf7$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Adrian Brentnall<adr...@ambquality.co.uk> wrote:
>> HI Darren
>>
>> If you can find a 'real' plumbers' supplies place - then yuo may be able
>> to buy just the diaphragm (which is the likely cause of the 'unreliable
>> flush' problem.
>
> I suspect it is - but I'd quite like to replace it with a more efficient
> dual flush syphon if possible. We've been moved onto a water meter so if I've
> got to take it all apart I might as well take the opportunity to fit one
> that's a bit less wasteful!
Ah - fair enough - our cisterns were dual-flush already ,g>
>
>> I've done this on our two toilets here - process is generally like this...
>>
>> - turn off the water that supplies the WC
>> - flush the toilet
>> - empty the remaining water from the cistern (sponge works well)
>> - remove the flush handle and associated mechanism
>> - unscrew the two screws at the back of the cistern holding the cistern
>> to the wall (often easier said than done - a short stubby screwdriver
>> can help)
>> - undo the two nuts or wingnuts holding the cistern to the pan
>> - lift the cistern off the pan and sit it on the floor on some olf towels
>> - undo the large plastic nut, which retains bracket that holds the two
>> bolts that secure the cistern to the pan
>
> Ah, so this is the thing that toolstation list. Sounds like I shouldn't
> need a new one of those then.
All depends how easily the old one comes off - it's a big thing, and
fairly fragile as well (when you have that big Stilson on the end of it)
- if it's your only toilet then you might want to get a 'spare
everything' as insurance...?
>
>> You might need a new big foam washer that the big plastic nut fits into
>> - or you might be able to re-use the original one
>
> one of
>
> http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Plumbing/Washers+Fixings/Doughnut+CC+Kit+Washer/d20/sd2703/p39353
>
> ?
Yes - that's the one.
>
> For that price I'll pick one up in case :-)
At that price you could even go for a spare as well !
Good luck
Adrian
>
> Darren
>
The Medway Handyman
> Day off work tomorrow so as I'm the only one at home it seems the
> ideal
> time to sort out the loo while it's still only hard to flush, and
> before
> it becomes impossible :)
>
> Close coupled (I think, cistern sits on the back of the pan with no
> pipe) toilet - pretty standard AFAIK.
Close coupled is the terminology. If it has a pipe its 'low level'
> toolstation appear to have two options:
>
> http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Plumbing/Toilet+Fittings/Dual+Flush+Syphon+8/d20/sd2835/p77721
>
> a) how do I tell which of the two I need? What is the measurement -
> height of the syphon?
Its the distance between the base of the cistern & the top. Most are 9.5"
IME, but do check.
> b) is that the correct thing? It looks like it has a large plastic
> nut on the bottom - how does that work with the cistern? Is there a
> hollow in the bottom that this will be hidden up in?
The photo shows a siphon as supplied - they come with the bits for close
coupled and low level.
> c) what's an Epson syphon?
> http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Plumbing/Toilet+Fittings/Epson+Syphon+8/d20/sd2835/p52164
No idea :-)
> c) to fit it I'll need to remove the cistern. I assume there is some
> seal
> on the bottom that I'll need to replace. Should I get one of
> http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Plumbing/Toilet+Fittings/Close+Coupling+Kit+Metal/d20/sd2835/p85615
>
You will absolutely, definately, certainly, 100% need a new doughnut washer.
Don't even think about using the old one.
For £2.45 you might as well buy the kit - in case stuff has corroded.
--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
The Medway Handyman
> HI Darren
>
> If you can find a 'real' plumbers' supplies place - then yuo may be
> able to buy just the diaphragm (which is the likely cause of the
> 'unreliable flush' problem.
90% of the time it is the diaphragm - B&Q and Wickes sell them. However, it
might be a split siphon body. Since the parts are cheap & its the same
labour to do both, change the complete siphon.
> I've done this on our two toilets here - process is generally like
> this...
> - turn off the water that supplies the WC
> - flush the toilet
> - empty the remaining water from the cistern (sponge works well)
> - remove the flush handle and associated mechanism
> - unscrew the two screws at the back of the cistern holding the
> cistern to the wall (often easier said than done - a short stubby
> screwdriver can help)
> - undo the two nuts or wingnuts holding the cistern to the pan
> - lift the cistern off the pan and sit it on the floor on some olf
> towels - undo the large plastic nut, which retains bracket that holds the
> two
> bolts that secure the cistern to the pan
> - remove the syphon mechanism
>
> At this point - either take the whole lot to your supplier and get a
> matching replacement, or take out the plastic diaphragm, and get a
> replacement for that.
>
> Then refit the new / repaired siphon mechanism
> and 'reassembly is the reverse of disassembly' as they used to say in
> the Haynes Manuals...
>
> You might need a new big foam washer that the big plastic nut fits
> into - or you might be able to re-use the original one
All agreed 100% - but don't whatever you do try to reuse the doughnut
washer - almost 100% guaranteed to leak.
The Medway Handyman
> In article <i7b22v$pf7$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Adrian Brentnall <adr...@ambquality.co.uk> wrote:
>> HI Darren
>>
>> If you can find a 'real' plumbers' supplies place - then yuo may be
>> able to buy just the diaphragm (which is the likely cause of the
>> 'unreliable flush' problem.
>
> I suspect it is - but I'd quite like to replace it with a more
> efficient dual flush syphon if possible. We've been moved onto a
> water meter so if I've got to take it all apart I might as well take
> the opportunity to fit one that's a bit less wasteful!
The ones you are looking at are only dual flush in as much as you can set
them to flush one of two different volumes. If you want a true dual flush
where you can choose you need something like a Wirquin Jollyflush
http://www.pro-builder.tv/archiveproducts/heating/bathrooms/wirquin_jollyflush.html
B&Q sell these as kits so you can replace the flush handle with a push
button.
D.M.Chapman
The Medway Handyman <davi...@no-spam-blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>D.M.Chapman wrote:
>> I suspect it is - but I'd quite like to replace it with a more
>> efficient dual flush syphon if possible. We've been moved onto a
>> water meter so if I've got to take it all apart I might as well take
>> the opportunity to fit one that's a bit less wasteful!
>The ones you are looking at are only dual flush in as much as you can set
>them to flush one of two different volumes. If you want a true dual flush
>where you can choose you need something like a Wirquin Jollyflush
>http://www.pro-builder.tv/archiveproducts/heating/bathrooms/wirquin_jollyflush.html
Ahhhhhhhhh..... Will go have a look for one of those then. I take it it's
designed to replace the old style so the button will just fit through the
handle hole?
I seem to remember a friend fitting one yonks ago and needing to open up the
hole a bit - my dremel is the other side of kent so that might be tricky :)
>
>B&Q sell these as kits so you can replace the flush handle with a push
>button.
Will investigate this morning, ta :-)
Darren
D.M.Chapman
The Medway Handyman <davi...@no-spam-blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>You will absolutely, definately, certainly, 100% need a new doughnut washer.
>Don't even think about using the old one.
Yep, I did :-) The old one was certainly knackered!
ended up fitting one of:
B and Q had quite a selection - and none complete. Looks like someone had
opened every pack and mixed bits up. Screwfix had that one in stock and
it seems to have good reviews...
So far so good, I'm not sure the flush has ever been quite so good :)
>For £2.45 you might as well buy the kit - in case stuff has corroded.
"in case stuff has corroded" is a bit of an understatement. One side it took
me a while (laying on my back) attempting to work out what had happened
to the wing nut. Seems it had largely rotted away. Hardly any "wings" left
just a big mess of rust and strangly swollen rubber. Bosch multitool worth
it's weight for that - just chopped the bloody thing off.
Thankfully the other side which has even less access was fine and undid ok
with a little plusgas to help.
Sorted. Just got a bad back now from laying reaching around the back of
the bog!
Cheers all,
Darren
John
news:i7d5fn$jc7$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
I hope you greased the threads so that next time they dismantle with ease.
D.M.Chapman
John <Who90...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>I hope you greased the threads so that next time they dismantle with ease.
Yep, little bit of copper grease (was all I had around).
Darren
John
Even better - well done!