bulb blew and "wrecked" the fuse holders!
Allthumbs
said. "oh yeah" I said.
Went downstairs and said "blimey etc" the G9 halogen bulb had
disappeared except for its base, there was a layer of powdered glass
on everything and when I looked at the fuse box the fuse and the
adjacent fuse were half pushed out of their holders. The *adjacent*
fuse holder base was obviously cracked.
Questions:-
IIRC Can I buy new fuse holder bases (this is old style wire fuses)
rather than a whole consumer unit?
Is this type of rather drastic blown fuse and scattered glass a
feature of the halogen bulbs? (I don't fancy it again, might change
kitchen light to something else).
(will not tackle till tomorrow as up all night watching tennis, like
to be fresh for electrics!)
--
Mike
John
"Allthumbs" <checked...@live.co.uk> wrote in message
news:vatql551g0gvikte7...@4ax.com...
Can you let the group know the manufacturers name (of the fusebox)
NT
> SWMBO switched on the light and "bang, it was like an explosion" she
> said. "oh yeah" I said.
> Went downstairs and said "blimey etc" the G9 halogen bulb had
> disappeared except for its base, there was a layer of powdered glass
> on everything and when I looked at the fuse box the fuse and the
> adjacent fuse were half pushed out of their holders. The *adjacent*
> fuse holder base was obviously cracked.
> Questions:-
> IIRC Can I buy new fuse holder bases (this is old style wire fuses)
> rather than a whole consumer unit?
If its wylex, yes
> Is this type of rather drastic blown fuse and scattered glass a
> feature of the halogen bulbs? (I don't fancy it again, might change
> kitchen light to something else).
yes, its one reason halogen lights shold always have a tough glass
cover.
> (will not tackle till tomorrow as up all night watching tennis, like
> to be fresh for electrics!)
NT
Adrian
saying:
>> Is this type of rather drastic blown fuse and scattered glass a feature
>> of the halogen bulbs? (I don't fancy it again, might change kitchen
>> light to something else).
> yes, its one reason halogen lights shold always have a tough glass
> cover.
I've never come across it - OK, not a HUGE sample, but a fair few 12v &
240v halogen bulbs. None of the fittings in the house have "tough glass
covers". Or, indeed, any covers at all.
Lurch
> Questions:-
> IIRC Can I buy new fuse holder bases (this is old style wire fuses)
> rather than a whole consumer unit?
Yes, but look at upgrading to HRC fuses at least, or MCB's.
> Is this type of rather drastic blown fuse and scattered glass a
> feature of the halogen bulbs? (I don't fancy it again, might change
> kitchen light to something else).
It's a feature of the old style BS3036 fuses you have got "protecting"
your wiring. It takes a much larger current to blow a rewirable fuse
than it does to blow an HRC fuse or trip an MCB. It's not a kitchen
light problem, it's an outdated electrics problem.
--
Stuart
--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ne...@netfront.net ---
Dave Liquorice
> Is this type of rather drastic blown fuse and scattered glass a
> feature of the halogen bulbs? (I don't fancy it again, might change
> kitchen light to something else).
Halogens can go with a helluva bang. You don't want to be in the
firing range if one decides to fail that way, red hot, molten, silica
glass at high velocity.
--
Cheers
Dave.
cynic
The size of the bang depends on a number of factors but comes down to
the "available" fault current from the supply through the wiring and
faulty item. Rewirable fuses are wide open to abuse such as wrong size
of wire being fitted, multiple strands of correct wire, previous
failures depositing a conductive copper coating on the carrier etc. As
you mention it being a lighting circuit it is usual to find a 5Amp
fuse with white colour code spot - is yours such? This is why
cartridge fuses were preferred until the advent of circuit breakers
although it was sometimes possible to fit overrated cartridges to some
designs.
If you have a Wylex consumer unit replacement fuse holders are still
available in rewirable or cartridge styles or alternatively "plug in"
circuit breakers of appropriate ratings. If your consumer unit is
another make you may struggle to get hold of new replacements but you
may get a used item from a sparky.
Andrew Gabriel
Allthumbs <checked...@live.co.uk> writes:
> SWMBO switched on the light and "bang, it was like an explosion" she
> said. "oh yeah" I said.
> Went downstairs and said "blimey etc" the G9 halogen bulb had
> disappeared except for its base, there was a layer of powdered glass
> on everything and when I looked at the fuse box the fuse and the
> adjacent fuse were half pushed out of their holders. The *adjacent*
> fuse holder base was obviously cracked.
> Questions:-
> IIRC Can I buy new fuse holder bases (this is old style wire fuses)
> rather than a whole consumer unit?
> Is this type of rather drastic blown fuse and scattered glass a
> feature of the halogen bulbs? (I don't fancy it again, might change
> kitchen light to something else).
Yes, they don't have anywhere to include a fuse in the bulb.
It sounds like your supply impedance is low enough for the fault
current to exceed the breaking capacity of BS 3036 rewirable fuses,
so the fuse "broke", i.e. it failed to safely disconnect the supply
because the current flowing through it was too high. Breaking capacity
of BS 3036 varies depending how they were wired, but it is much lower
than that of any MCB or cartridge fuse you would buy today. I would
suggest changing the CU for a modern one which is spec'ed for your
supply (probably need at least 6kA breaking capacity given your
experience, but this needs measuring). As a temporary repair, buy
fuse carriers which take BS1361 cartridge fuses, rather than a new
rewirable fuse carrier.
--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
NT
> NT <meow2...@care2.com> gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
> saying:
>
> >> Is this type of rather drastic blown fuse and scattered glass a feature
> >> of the halogen bulbs? (I don't fancy it again, might change kitchen
> >> light to something else).
> > yes, its one reason halogen lights shold always have a tough glass
> > cover.
>
> I've never come across it - OK, not a HUGE sample, but a fair few 12v &
> 240v halogen bulbs.
Its not a common occurrence, but its a known problem. Sometimes the
hot pieces can set fire to things.
> None of the fittings in the house have "tough glass
> covers". Or, indeed, any covers at all.
Most halogen bulbs have an outer glass cover as part of the bulb. Some
types don't though, such as capsule bulbs and linear halogen. As you
rightly point out, those are sometimes used with no cover. In some
countries such fittings are not legal.
NT
Allthumbs
wrote:
>Can you let the group know the manufacturers name (of the fusebox)
Wylex
--
Mike
Allthumbs
wrote:
>yes, its one reason halogen lights shold always have a tough glass
>cover.
yep, shall not get the type of fitting again
--
Mike
Allthumbs
<icel...@talktalk.net> wrote:
>a 5Amp
>fuse with white colour code spot - is yours such?
yep, with 5amp wire in it!
--
Mike
Allthumbs
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
>As a temporary repair, buy
>fuse carriers which take BS1361 cartridge fuses, rather than a new
>rewirable fuse carrier.
OK, thanks, good idea
--
Mike
Allthumbs
<checked...@live.co.uk> wrote:
>>As a temporary repair, buy
>>fuse carriers which take BS1361 cartridge fuses, rather than a new
>>rewirable fuse carrier.
>
>OK, thanks, good idea
These look like the thing, comes with a new base (which I need)
"http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/WYC5.html"
do they replace (inc base) without needing to disconnect all the
output/input cables?
--
Mike
Allthumbs
<checked...@live.co.uk> wrote:
>do they replace (inc base) without needing to disconnect all the
>output/input cables?
just been down the DIY shed and I see they plug in simply, great! Will
get a set of the tripper type replacements from somewhere that
actually has some stock (not my local B&Q)
Thanks for all the help, this honestly is the best group on usenet
IMHO.
--
Mike
fred
<checked...@live.co.uk> writes
That's them.
Yes, the blades of the new cartridge based fuseholder mate with the old
leaf sprung contacts of the fusebox. Removing the holder exposes the
contacts but they are isolated by the main switch (do check though, take
care and wear safety specs).
At those prices, you can afford to replace the lot. Make sure you get
plenty of spare fuses.
--
fred
BBC3, ITV2/3/4, channels going to the DOGs
RobertL
> On 25/01/2010 10:49, Allthumbs wrote:
>
> > Questions:-
> > IIRC Can I buy new fuse holder bases (this is old style wire fuses)
> > rather than a whole consumer unit?
>
> Yes, but look at upgrading to HRC fuses at least, or MCB's.
>
> > Is this type of rather drastic blown fuse and scattered glass a
> > feature of the halogen bulbs? (I don't fancy it again, might change
> > kitchen light to something else).
>
> It's a feature of the old style BS3036 fuses you have got "protecting"
> your wiring. It takes a much larger current to blow a rewirable fuse
> than it does to blow an HRC fuse or trip an MCB. It's not a kitchen
> light problem, it's an outdated electrics problem.
We had a problem with a (new) cooker. it went 'bank' and managed to
blow not only the wire fuse, but also the big cartridge fuse that is
before the meter thu scutting off all electricity to the house.
that was when I decided to have a modern CU fitted.
Robert
Andrew Gabriel
Also note that a 5A BS1361 fuse that these take is same size
as a 5A BS1362 plugtop fuse, but don't use a BS1362 plugtop fuse
in the consumer unit - it doesn't have a high enough breaking
capacity.
Andrew Gabriel
Allthumbs <checked...@live.co.uk> writes:
> On Mon, 25 Jan 2010 13:53:17 +0000, Allthumbs
> <checked...@live.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>do they replace (inc base) without needing to disconnect all the
>>output/input cables?
>
> just been down the DIY shed and I see they plug in simply, great! Will
> get a set of the tripper type replacements from somewhere that
> actually has some stock (not my local B&Q)
The MCB's which plug in to Wylex style CU's also have rather low
breaking capacity - IIRC, something like 3kA for the toggle ones,
and 1kA for the push button ones. Given you've already had a BS3036
rewirable fuse destroyed due to having too low breaking capacity
for your supply, I would stick with BS1361 cartridge fuses.
If you want MCBs (tripper type), you should replace the whole CU
with a modern one.
js.b1
Please do not waste your money buying the plug-in MCB because it is
wasted money (better to change the CU to a split load with MCBs £2-3).
If you have bought them, take them back and get HRC fuse carriers
(nothing wrong with a HRC fuse compared to rewireable).
Also buy a "Fluke Voltalert" from Ebay UK, about £15 or so delivered.
Can you post a photo of the CU, you may have other remedials required?
- 1) meter tails (cotton covered rubber).
- 2) Main Equipotential Bonding not present or undersized.
- 3) Flash damage to the Wylex CU which is probably open backed wood.
Exactly as Mr Gabriel says do not use 5A plug-top fuses in place of
HRC 5A for Light circuits :-)
Allthumbs
<checked...@live.co.uk> wrote:
> tripper type replacements from somewhere that
>actually has some stock (not my local B&Q)
like here
"http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Consumer_Units_Index/Wylex_Standard_Range/index.html"
supplementary! They come in 6, 32 and 40 while my wire fuses are rated
5 , 30 and 45?
--
Mike
John Rumm
Its common for MCBs to have a slightly higher rating than the
re-wireables that they replace. So you would typically use a 6A MCB for
a lighting circuit previously protected with a 5A BS3036 (i.e. wylex
style) fuse.
--
Cheers,
John.
/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/
Dave Osborne
> In article<bjdrl59r1s75idg51...@4ax.com>,
> Allthumbs<checked...@live.co.uk> writes:
>> On Mon, 25 Jan 2010 13:53:17 +0000, Allthumbs
>> <checked...@live.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> do they replace (inc base) without needing to disconnect all the
>>> output/input cables?
>>
>> just been down the DIY shed and I see they plug in simply, great! Will
>> get a set of the tripper type replacements from somewhere that
>> actually has some stock (not my local B&Q)
>
> The MCB's which plug in to Wylex style CU's also have rather low
> breaking capacity - IIRC, something like 3kA for the toggle ones,
> and 1kA for the push button ones. Given you've already had a BS3036
> rewirable fuse destroyed due to having too low breaking capacity
> for your supply, I would stick with BS1361 cartridge fuses.
>
What's the breaking capacity of small BS1361 fuses?
<Goes away to check for himself...>
Ah, 16.5kA. Good enough.
Andrew Gabriel
Most modern MCBs (not Wylex ones) for domestic CU's are 6kA
which is probably going to be fine. You can also get 10kA MCBs,
although more likely to be used in industrial CUs and dist boards.
(These are marked M6 or M10 respectively.)
Of course you have the main fuse which is likely to be BS1361
or BS88, and some manufacturers of 6kA MCBs say they can
be treated as 10kA when backed by a BS1361 or BS88 main fuse.
John Rumm
Memshield 2, do a range of 10kA ones...
> Of course you have the main fuse which is likely to be BS1361
> or BS88, and some manufacturers of 6kA MCBs say they can
> be treated as 10kA when backed by a BS1361 or BS88 main fuse.
--