Humax EPG

[wasbit]

Humax FVP 5000T set top recorder is often very slow to populate the EPG.
Signal is from rooftop aerial not internet.
Some stations can be populated either fully or partially whilst others
are empty.
Have tried turning the channel guide off, waiting a minute, then back on
which occasionally helps with some channels.
Often the population can take 20 or 30 minutes & sometimes up to an hour.
Is this the norm & is there anything that can be done to speed the
population up?

--
Regards
wasbit

[Brian Gaff]

I notice this on my Samsung tv. I thought it was just that the different
channels send them at different rates.
Brian

--

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[Brian]

I have the same issue on another set top box - a VBox ( it feeds TV onto my
local network and you can view on an iPad, record etc. )

I’ve noticed if I display the EPG then select a channel to watch - which
then displays the current programme- wait a moment, the EPG usually updates
virtually fully, including the week ahead.

It doesn’t seem to matter which channel I select, although I normally pick
one of the main ones - Drama, ITV, etc.

That said, this only works from a tablet of phone- probably as the VBox
doesn’t support viewing on laptop browsers.

To view TV on a laptop, I need to use a VLC. The trick doesn’t work with
VLC as you can’t view the EPG in VLC.

[alan_m]

On one of my old boxes (not Humax) the problem was the amount of EPG to
be downloaded and stored was causing some tardiness. The solution was
after a scan for channels removing/deleting all the channels you would
never watch.

Question: does the Humax store the 7 day EPG to disk when it is shut
down properly and then reads the EPG from the disk when powered back up?
On other boxes this mechanism can/fail if the box is not shut down
properly by switching off at the mains socket before putting into
perhaps a deep standby first. The box needs to know its going to be
switched off in order to transfer the EPG from RAM to disk. If a box is
switched on without the EPG it can take approx 5 to 10 minutes for it to
fully populate.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

[wasbit]

On 16/01/2024 14:13, wasbit wrote:

Last night was particularly bad again, hours & hours on most channels
showing 'No Programme Information'.
Had to wait for one programme to start before I could record it.

--
Regards
wasbit

[wasbit]

I don't know. Where would I find that information?

The box is normally turned on & off manually using the button, (not the
remote) & very rarely turned off at the mains.

--
Regards
wasbit

[alan_m]

The manual say the button is the standby/on button. The box takes less
than 0.5W in standby.

This (user) reply suggests that the epg is purged from the box during
overnight housekeeping and the solution to your problem may be to set
some form of timer to automatically switch to BBC1 HD for a short time
each day to refresh the EPG.

See first reply
https://myhumax.org/forum/topic/fvp-5000t-no-programme-information-on-epg

[Clive Page]

On 16/01/2024 14:13, wasbit wrote:

My Humax FVP 5000T has just died (so I've sent it off for repair, may report on that separately when there's some progress) so can't check this directly, but there is an option to turn it on every day for a short period (15 mins seems enough) which allows it to populate its programme guide. It's somewhere hidden among the power options. If you can't find it I may be able to find the manual and find more detail of where it is in the setup menu tree.

--
Clive Page

[Andrew]

On 17/01/2024 12:20, Chris Hogg wrote:

> Doubt if this helps, but I have a Humax HDR-FOX T2, which is always on
> standby when I'm not watching the TV. The EPG is just always there,
> instantly, the whole week, lots of channels, whenever I bring it out
> of standby. Maybe it continuously updates when in standby. I've not
> tried turning it off.
>
> But I have now, and the EPG is all there again, instantly. reception
> is via a loft aerial (unplugging it kills the signal) but there is an
> Ethernet connection to my BT Hub. Not sure why, set it up a few years
> ago and can't now remember :-(
>

I have an HD-FOX-T2 (one tuner) with an external 2.5 inch
HD to record stuff on. It also sleeps on standby and the
EPG is always there.

There haven't been any OTA updates for these for quite
some time so you don't need to leave it connected to your
BT hub and the version of the iPlayer is so ancient it
is effectively unusable. I use the Android part of my
connected Sony Bravia for catchup and YouTube.

[wasbit]

I had searched before I asked but didn't come across that answer.

The only mention of EPG in the manual is in the glossary & includes
'The information supplied in the EPG is sent and updated by the channel
broadcaster.'

The machine does turn itself on & off & the hard drive starts & stops
during the night whilst in standby mode - presumably updating something.

I'll try removing the power for 15 minutes & report back.

Thanks.
--

Regards
wasbit

[wasbit]

Manual page 25
'Power Timer
You can set the time the product powers on or powers off.'

Thanks. I'll try turning it on for 30 minutes during the day.

--
Regards
wasbit

[wasbit]

On 17/01/2024 12:20, Chris Hogg wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Jan 2024 14:13:30 +0000, wasbit <was...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>

> Doubt if this helps, but I have a Humax HDR-FOX T2, which is always on
> standby when I'm not watching the TV. The EPG is just always there,
> instantly, the whole week, lots of channels, whenever I bring it out
> of standby. Maybe it continuously updates when in standby. I've not
> tried turning it off.
>
> But I have now, and the EPG is all there again, instantly. reception
> is via a loft aerial (unplugging it kills the signal) but there is an
> Ethernet connection to my BT Hub. Not sure why, set it up a few years
> ago and can't now remember :-(
>

I would suspect that the internet connection takes priority over the
aerial where updates are concerned.
Thanks.

--
Regards
wasbit

[alan_m]

On 18/01/2024 14:09, wasbit wrote:

> I'll try removing the power for 15 minutes & report back.

That's not what the forum answer is suggesting.

What it's saying is that you set up a timer to automatically switch the
box out of standby for 15 minutes each morning and select the BBC 1 HD
channel. After the 15 minutes has elapsed automatically switch the box
back into standby.

[wasbit]

On 18/01/2024 14:45, alan_m wrote:
> On 18/01/2024 14:09, wasbit wrote:
>
>> I'll try removing the power for 15 minutes & report back.
>
> That's not what the forum answer is suggesting.
>
> What it's saying is that you set up a timer to automatically switch the
> box out of standby for 15 minutes each morning and select the BBC 1 HD
> channel.  After the 15 minutes has elapsed automatically switch the box
> back into standby.
>

Ah yes, oops, got sidetracked. 😳

--
Regards
wasbit

[wasbit]

On 18/01/2024 14:45, alan_m wrote:

> On 18/01/2024 14:09, wasbit wrote:
>
>> I'll try removing the power for 15 minutes & report back.
>
> That's not what the forum answer is suggesting.
>
> What it's saying is that you set up a timer to automatically switch the
> box out of standby for 15 minutes each morning and select the BBC 1 HD
> channel.  After the 15 minutes has elapsed automatically switch the box
> back into standby.
>

Removing the power from the machine didn't work.
I'm not sure how setting a timer is going to work if the EPG doesn't
populate, sometimes 2 hours, after the box is turned on, but I'm
willing to give it a try.

--
Regards
wasbit

[alan_m]

The recommendation is to use the timer to select the BBC1 HD channel
which on Freeview is probably broadcast at the greatest power from the
transmitter and possibly transmits the EPG in the best way.
This would get over the problem if, say, your reception was marginal on
some MUXs.

[Tim+]

Have you rescanned the channels recently? Couldn’t hurt…

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

[wasbit]

Yes, twice this year. :)

--
Regards
wasbit

[wasbit]

Ok, understand the logic.
Set the timer for 2 - 2.30 pm so I can see if it works.
Thanks.

--
Regards
wasbit

[alan_m]

On 21/01/2024 12:39, Chris Hogg wrote:

>
> Well, turning off the mains supply to the TV, PVR, BT hub etc,
> unplugging the Ethernet connection between the PVR and the hub, then
> turning the mains back on after 30 seconds, reestablishes the EPG
> instantly, for the whole week ahead. Maybe I should have left it all
> off for longer, but ICBA!
>

If there has been a software crash of some kind just putting a box into
standby or deep standby doesn't necessarily cleanly reboot the software.
Totatlly removing the power and leaving the box this way for a minute or
two allows all internal power supplies to discharge. On switching the
power back on the box must go through a cold beet process.

This doesn't necessarily get over a problem if data on a hard disk or
memory stick is corrupted and that memory device is read again on boot up.

[wasbit]

On 20/01/2024 12:26, alan_m wrote:

Set the timer, checked that the box turned on (5 minutes early) & off at
the specified times but The EPG still showed chunks of 'No Programme
Information' at 7pm. Channel 5 was bad but channel 4 was worse.
So far I haven't found a method to get the EPG to populate but thanks
for the suggestions.

--
Regards
wasbit

[Paul]

Because humans are human, it is always possible that the data poured
into the broadcast system, is not something the box is able to parse
and process at the moment.

https://hummy.tv/forum/threads/foxsat-epg-not-being-processed.10707/#post-163875

https://www.avforums.com/threads/media-file-server-bundle-for-the-foxsat-hdr-release-4-part-6.2024876/page-26

If the machine has a log visible on the EPG page,
maybe evidence of the problem is there.

Paul

[wasbit]

On 17/01/2024 11:14, alan_m wrote:

Update.
Have had the box powered on for 35 minutes at 2pm for the last couple of
days.
Seems to have helped with populating BBC 1 & 2 but ITV still has blanks,
channels 4 & 5 are particularly bad as are some of the higher number
channels.
These can take up to 2 hours before they populate.
Sod's law that it always seems to be the channels that I want to record.

--
Regards
wasbit

[wasbit]

On 25/01/2024 12:32, Chris Hogg wrote:

> On Thu, 25 Jan 2024 10:55:06 +0000, wasbit <was...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>> Update.
>> Have had the box powered on for 35 minutes at 2pm for the last couple of
>> days.
>> Seems to have helped with populating BBC 1 & 2 but ITV still has blanks,
>> channels 4 & 5 are particularly bad as are some of the higher number
>> channels.
>> These can take up to 2 hours before they populate.
>> Sod's law that it always seems to be the channels that I want to record.
>

> I expect this has been mentioned back up the thread, but do you turn
> off the Humax completely when you've stopped watching whatever it was,
> or just put it into standby? I only put mine into standby, except on
> rare occasions.
>

Standby, but I have removed the power overnight on a couple of occasions
which made no difference.

--
Regards
wasbit

[wasbit]

On 16/01/2024 14:13, wasbit wrote:

EPG Further Update 2024.01.25

Humax HDR-1800T - Set top recorder
Blaupunkt 32/138M - TV
Blaupunkt 32-1480 - TV

EPGs all populated fully when started from standby up.

The Humax HDR-1800T had been switched off at the wall for 6 months yet
the EPG populated fully within the minute or so that it took me to get
to the EPG screen.

11am - Humax FVP-5000T EPG populated to past midnight except for
channels 28,50,52,56,61,66,83,92 & & 101-109.
Returning to BBC1 & BBC2 they were blank.

1.55pm - Humax FVP-5000T powered up for it's timed 35 minutes after
which the EPG populated fully.
Returning to the EPG 15 minutes later lots of unpopulated slots.

So it would seem that the problem is that the FVP-5000T can update but
not retain the EPG.

--
Regards
wasbit

[Andrew]

Thanks for warning. I'll stick with my HD-FOX-T2 until it
fails then avoid 'upgrading' to an FVP-5000.

Not sure about the Aura either though.

[wasbit]

On 26/01/2024 10:02, wasbit wrote:

FYI

EPG data is transmitted continuously and the EPG on the Humax is
continuously being updated as long as the Humax is not in standby.

-
https://myhumax.org/forum/topic/fvp-5000t-epg-losing-programme-information

Don't know whether that's opinion or fact but it would seem to be the
logical answer.

--
Regards
wasbit

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 30/01/2024 10:09, wasbit wrote:

> FYI
>
> EPG data is transmitted continuously and the EPG on the Humax is
> continuously being updated as long as the Humax is not in standby.
>
>  -
> https://myhumax.org/forum/topic/fvp-5000t-epg-losing-programme-information
>
> Don't know whether that's opinion or fact but it would seem to be the
> logical answer.
>

Odd factoid. I was fiddling with my TVheadend equipped PI computer and
unbeknownst to me the aerial fell out. So TV didn't work, but I didn't
notice until the following morning. All the TV guides were there, but no
pictures!

My conclusions is that either a load of stuff is also downloaded over
the internet, Or TV guides are for the future as well as 'today'.

But switching the machine off completely will always lose whatever
guides are in RAM,. obviously.


--
"First, find out who are the people you can not criticise. They are your
oppressors."
- George Orwell

[alan_m]

On 30/01/2024 11:57, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 30/01/2024 10:09, wasbit wrote:
>
>> FYI
>>
>> EPG data is transmitted continuously and the EPG on the Humax is
>> continuously being updated as long as the Humax is not in standby.
>>
>>   -
>> https://myhumax.org/forum/topic/fvp-5000t-epg-losing-programme-information
>>
>> Don't know whether that's opinion or fact but it would seem to be the
>> logical answer.
>>
> Odd factoid. I was fiddling with my TVheadend equipped PI computer and
> unbeknownst to me the aerial fell out. So TV didn't work, but I didn't
> notice until the following morning. All the TV guides were there, but no
> pictures!
>
> My conclusions is that either a load of stuff is also downloaded over
> the internet, Or TV guides are for the future as well as 'today'.

Freeview, Freesat and Sky (Free to Air) are all 7 day EPG, over the air.

[Andy Burns]

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> I was fiddling with my TVheadend equipped PI computer and unbeknownst to
> me the aerial fell out. So TV didn't work, but I didn't notice until the
> following morning. All the TV guides were there, but no pictures!
>
> My conclusions is that either a load of stuff is also downloaded over
> the internet, Or TV guides are for the future as well as 'today'.

The OTA EPG is 7 days

> But switching the machine off completely will always lose whatever
> guides are in RAM,. obviously.

They do get stored in /var/lib/tvheadend/config/epgdb.*

[The Natural Philosopher]

ah. Do they indeed. That's odd, because if I power the machine down they
seem to vanish...

--
Climate is what you expect but weather is what you get.
Mark Twain

[Paul]

There's more than one kind of EPG.

There's some version that tells you enough to know
"what is on next". In other words, a very short event horizon.

As for the other flavor, I've no details how yours works.

TV in the analog days, carried all sorts of information
during retrace or the like. It carried enough information,
that one company actually used it for Internet content
(signal broadcast to the consumers of the content, and
if your network address matched at the moment, you would
eat the content, and your dialup modem would send an ACK
so the other end would know the downloaded item arrived).

But with digital, there's no need for retrace, front porch
or back porch, and so the content then, has to be defined
for each purpose. You could have a high resolution video signal
and no auxiliary information, or you could have a mixture of
video and something else.

One thread I could find, left the impression that maybe
the Humax processor can't actually process the arrival rate
of the data, and that's why on a first pass transmission, it
would get some of the channels, and then on the next pass,
it would fill in the gaps.

What's curious, is Wasbit's symptoms are seen by others,
and the thing also seems to have a very curious notion
of "caching". It's like it is constantly leaking and tossing
stuff away.

I have not seen any signs, that people have access to a "log",
to gather evidence of what it is doing.

One solution apparently, is to reduce the number of channels
it is tracking. The less work it has to do, the more filled
the EPG is.

Paul

[alan_m]

With many boxes the EPG is held and updated in RAM and only transferred
to disk on a proper shut down. The box has to know that its going to
loose power or the software shut down in order to store the EPG to disk
or usb stick.

This can also create a problem if any time the data becomes corrupted.
The corrupted data is read from disk at power up to RAM and if there
isn't a mechanism to correct the data the corrupted form gets saved back
to disk on shut down. Often there is a user option to clear EPG cache
data in the RAM and maybe also to wipe the same data from disk.

On my box there is the option to select where the EPG is stored: flash
memory, hard disk or USB stick. It is inadvisable to store to flash memory.
With regards the amount of data it's not just the program name and time
but also the short description on what the program is about.

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 31/01/2024 06:24, Paul wrote:

> One thread I could find, left the impression that maybe
> the Humax processor can't actually process the arrival rate
> of the data, and that's why on a first pass transmission, it
> would get some of the channels, and then on the next pass,
> it would fill in the gaps.
>

That is what happens to me with TVheadend, which is a piece of software
approximating to a set top box connected via a TV DVB dongle to the
antenna.

It can only tune one multiplex at at time, and if you are listening or
watching on one, it cant pull EPG from the others.

I would expect he Humax to have two tuners though, so you can always
watch one channel and record another.

> What's curious, is Wasbit's symptoms are seen by others,
> and the thing also seems to have a very curious notion
> of "caching". It's like it is constantly leaking and tossing
> stuff away.
>

Could well be. There is some crap firmware out there.

> I have not seen any signs, that people have access to a "log",
> to gather evidence of what it is doing.
>

No, that's TV headend only, the software application.

> One solution apparently, is to reduce the number of channels
> it is tracking. The less work it has to do, the more filled
> the EPG is.

Dunno.

--
“It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established
authorities are wrong.”

― Voltaire, The Age of Louis XIV

[wasbit]

On 30/01/2024 11:57, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 30/01/2024 10:09, wasbit wrote:
>
>> FYI
>>
>> EPG data is transmitted continuously and the EPG on the Humax is
>> continuously being updated as long as the Humax is not in standby.
>>
>>   -
>> https://myhumax.org/forum/topic/fvp-5000t-epg-losing-programme-information
>>
>>
>> Don't know whether that's opinion or fact but it would seem to be the
>> logical answer.
>>
> Odd factoid. I was fiddling with my TVheadend equipped PI computer and
> unbeknownst to me the aerial fell out. So TV didn't work, but I didn't
> notice until the following morning. All the TV guides were there, but no
> pictures!
>
> My conclusions is that either a load of stuff is also downloaded over
> the internet, Or TV guides are for the future as well as 'today'.
>
> But switching the machine off completely will always lose whatever
> guides are in RAM,. obviously.
>
>

Ours isn't, & hasn't ever been, connected to the internet.

The EPG worked fine in the past when we recorded lots of programmes
whilst we were away on holiday.

--
Regards
wasbit

[wasbit]

On 30/01/2024 12:11, Andy Burns wrote:

How do I find that?

--
Regards
wasbit

[wasbit]

How do you tell it to shut down when the off button only puts the box
into standby?

--
Regards
wasbit

[The Natural Philosopher]

You haven't got TVheadend, so you wont

--
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the
other is to refuse to believe what is true.”

—Soren Kierkegaard

[wasbit]

The Humax FVP 5000T has 3 tuners & an 8 day EPG.
Sometimes we can record 3 programmes whilst watching a 4th channel &
sometimes we can't.

--
Regards
wasbit

[wasbit]

On 01/02/2024 14:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 01/02/2024 10:35, wasbit wrote:
>> On 30/01/2024 12:11, Andy Burns wrote:
>>> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>>>> I was fiddling with my TVheadend equipped PI computer and
>>>> unbeknownst to me the aerial fell out. So TV didn't work, but I
>>>> didn't notice until the following morning. All the TV guides were
>>>> there, but no pictures!
>>>>
>>>> My conclusions is that either a load of stuff is also downloaded
>>>> over the internet, Or TV guides are for the future as well as 'today'.
>>>
>>> The OTA EPG is 7 days
>>>
>>>> But switching the machine off completely will always lose whatever
>>>> guides are in RAM,. obviously.
>>>
>>> They do get stored in /var/lib/tvheadend/config/epgdb.*
>>>
>>>
>>
>> How do I find that?
>>
> You haven't got TVheadend, so you wont
>

Managed to get Tvheadend installed on a Raspberry Pi after 4 attempts.

For some reason there were always some missing files.
I didn't know how to correct that so had to wipe & reinstall both the OS
& tvheadend until they worked.

Currently this is a mental exercise until I can find out how I can use
it. I see that Roku supports it so that might be an option.

Thanks for the nudge.

--
Regards
wasbit

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 03/02/2024 10:22, wasbit wrote:
> On 01/02/2024 14:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 01/02/2024 10:35, wasbit wrote:
>>> On 30/01/2024 12:11, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I was fiddling with my TVheadend equipped PI computer and
>>>>> unbeknownst to me the aerial fell out. So TV didn't work, but I
>>>>> didn't notice until the following morning. All the TV guides were
>>>>> there, but no pictures!
>>>>>
>>>>> My conclusions is that either a load of stuff is also downloaded
>>>>> over the internet, Or TV guides are for the future as well as 'today'.
>>>>
>>>> The OTA EPG is 7 days
>>>>
>>>>> But switching the machine off completely will always lose whatever
>>>>> guides are in RAM,. obviously.
>>>>
>>>> They do get stored in /var/lib/tvheadend/config/epgdb.*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> How do I find that?
>>>
>> You haven't got TVheadend, so you wont
>>
>
> Managed to get Tvheadend installed on a Raspberry Pi after 4 attempts.
>

Oh? it went pretty much first time for me.
Setting it up is a pain in the arse though.
Since my pi bricked itself two days ago I had to do it again.
Somehow the DVB interface wasn't 'enabled' and it took me a while to
spot that.
Still cant get HD working on my setup. Pictures but no sound.

> For some reason there were always some missing files.
> I didn't know how to correct that so had to wipe & reinstall both the OS
> & tvheadend until they worked.
>

Odd. Not had that

> Currently this is a mental exercise until I can find out how I can use
> it. I see that Roku supports it so that might be an option.
>

I built a web server that operates on the Pi to display the channels and
EPGS and you just click on the channel you want. I never implemented
recording though. Do that manually etc. It's a bit rough round the
edges, but its OK for me - I have to go into TVheadends own web
interface to clear connections if I close the browser without cancelling
a channel though.

> Thanks for the nudge.
>

--

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eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such
time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic
and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally
important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for
the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the
truth is the greatest enemy of the State.

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