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rotating machines & flourescent lights
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jim
Oct 20, 2013, 12:50:21 PM10/20/13
to
Trying to choose lighting over my new garage/workshop.
As is well known, flourescent lights (strip lights) on single phase supplies do not mix happily with rotating machines due to the possibility that flicker will make a rotating drive appear to be stationery.
The remedy used to be to have a GLS lamp on at the same time.
Now that GLS lamps have bitten the dust, what options are there?
Halogen?
LED lamps? These seem to be powered by in-built switched mode power supplies - Is there a potential to flicker?
Any other options?
TIA
As is well known, flourescent lights (strip lights) on single phase supplies do not mix happily with rotating machines due to the possibility that flicker will make a rotating drive appear to be stationery.
The remedy used to be to have a GLS lamp on at the same time.
Now that GLS lamps have bitten the dust, what options are there?
Halogen?
LED lamps? These seem to be powered by in-built switched mode power supplies - Is there a potential to flicker?
Any other options?
TIA
Message has been deleted
Phil L
Oct 20, 2013, 1:43:00 PM10/20/13
to
widely available and cheaper than chips - I've just this afternoon seen them
at two for a quid in poundland, and almost every other general store also
sells them
Bob Minchin
Oct 20, 2013, 1:54:25 PM10/20/13
to
achieve better efficiency and so the stroboscopic problem with rotating
machinery has been removed.
Nightjar
Oct 20, 2013, 1:56:26 PM10/20/13
to
On 20/10/2013 17:50, jim wrote:
> Trying to choose lighting over my new garage/workshop.
>
> As is well known, flourescent lights (strip lights) on single phase supplies do not mix happily with rotating machines due to the possibility that flicker will make a rotating drive appear to be stationery.
>
> The remedy used to be to have a GLS lamp on at the same time.
>
> Now that GLS lamps have bitten the dust, what options are there?
As a lot of metal working machines involve quantities of coolant
> Trying to choose lighting over my new garage/workshop.
>
> As is well known, flourescent lights (strip lights) on single phase supplies do not mix happily with rotating machines due to the possibility that flicker will make a rotating drive appear to be stationery.
>
> The remedy used to be to have a GLS lamp on at the same time.
>
> Now that GLS lamps have bitten the dust, what options are there?
sloshing about, the work lamp would normally be 50v or lower for safety
and 50v GLS still seem to be readily available.
> Halogen?
Very common, if not universal, as a work light on modern metal working
lathes etc.
> LED lamps? These seem to be powered by in-built switched mode power supplies - Is there a potential to flicker?
>
> Any other options?
Colin Bignell
SteveW
Oct 20, 2013, 2:02:05 PM10/20/13
to
On 20/10/2013 17:50, jim wrote:
> Trying to choose lighting over my new garage/workshop.
>
> As is well known, flourescent lights (strip lights) on single phase supplies do not mix happily with rotating machines due to the possibility that flicker will make a rotating drive appear to be stationery.
I've never considered it a great risk in a home workshop, as usually
>
> As is well known, flourescent lights (strip lights) on single phase supplies do not mix happily with rotating machines due to the possibility that flicker will make a rotating drive appear to be stationery.
there's only the one person working there and only one machine tool at a
time. Even if it looked stationary, the noise would tell the operator
that it is running. It'd be an entirely different matter in a workshop
with multiple machines running and a number of people.
SteveW
Dave Plowman (News)
Oct 20, 2013, 2:17:32 PM10/20/13
to
In article <7f970176-fc16-481a...@googlegroups.com>,
run at a much higher frequency than mains which increases efficiency. And
removes the strobing problem.
--
*Someday, we'll look back on this, laugh nervously and change the subject
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
jim <jim_in...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Trying to choose lighting over my new garage/workshop.
> As is well known, flourescent lights (strip lights) on single phase
> supplies do not mix happily with rotating machines due to the
> possibility that flicker will make a rotating drive appear to be
> stationery.
That did apply once, but now only to cheap fittings. Decent fittings will
> Trying to choose lighting over my new garage/workshop.
> As is well known, flourescent lights (strip lights) on single phase
> supplies do not mix happily with rotating machines due to the
> possibility that flicker will make a rotating drive appear to be
> stationery.
run at a much higher frequency than mains which increases efficiency. And
removes the strobing problem.
--
*Someday, we'll look back on this, laugh nervously and change the subject
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Nightjar
Oct 20, 2013, 2:27:38 PM10/20/13
to
manufacture and sale of most, but not all, GLS lamps. The ban does not
cover other types of filament lamp, such as candle bulbs, nor special
purpose lamps, such as rough service lamps, nor spot lights. Retailers
can continue to sell even the banned lamps, provided they are simply
clearing out stocks they bought before the ban. There was quite an
upsurge in wholesale sales prior to the ban coming in.
Colin Bignell
Tim Watts
Oct 20, 2013, 2:31:47 PM10/20/13
to
On Sunday 20 October 2013 17:50 jim wrote in uk.d-i-y:
> Trying to choose lighting over my new garage/workshop.
>
> As is well known, flourescent lights (strip lights) on single phase
> supplies do not mix happily with rotating machines due to the possibility
> that flicker will make a rotating drive appear to be stationery.
>
> The remedy used to be to have a GLS lamp on at the same time.
>
> Now that GLS lamps have bitten the dust, what options are there?
? Plenty still available.
> Trying to choose lighting over my new garage/workshop.
>
> As is well known, flourescent lights (strip lights) on single phase
> supplies do not mix happily with rotating machines due to the possibility
> that flicker will make a rotating drive appear to be stationery.
>
> The remedy used to be to have a GLS lamp on at the same time.
>
> Now that GLS lamps have bitten the dust, what options are there?
> Halogen?
>
> LED lamps? These seem to be powered by in-built switched mode power
> supplies - Is there a potential to flicker?
>
> Any other options?
>
> TIA
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/
http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage
Dave Liquorice
Oct 20, 2013, 2:40:03 PM10/20/13
to
On Sun, 20 Oct 2013 19:17:32 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>> As is well known, flourescent lights (strip lights) on single
phase
>> supplies do not mix happily with rotating machines due to the
>> possibility that flicker will make a rotating drive appear to be
>> stationery.
>
> That did apply once, but now only to cheap fittings. Decent fittings
> will run at a much higher frequency than mains which increases
> efficiency.
Most ordinary fittings still just have choke type ballast and run at
>> As is well known, flourescent lights (strip lights) on single
phase
>> supplies do not mix happily with rotating machines due to the
>> possibility that flicker will make a rotating drive appear to be
>> stationery.
>
> That did apply once, but now only to cheap fittings. Decent fittings
> will run at a much higher frequency than mains which increases
> efficiency.
50 Hz. Agreed that you can get high frequency ballasts but I'd say
they are more the exception than the rule.
> And removes the strobing problem.
other rotational speeds which may or may not be a problem.
--
Cheers
Dave.
Dave Plowman (News)
Oct 20, 2013, 6:33:03 PM10/20/13
to
In article <nyyfbegfubjuvyypb...@srv1.howhill.co.uk>,
around 30,000 Hz.
--
*If your feet smell and your nose runs, you're built upside down.
Dave Liquorice <allsortsn...@howhill.com> wrote:
> > And removes the strobing problem.
> No the lamp still flickers, it moves the apparently static tool to
> other rotational speeds which may or may not be a problem.
I'd be surprised if the phosphors in the tube react at all to frequencies
> > And removes the strobing problem.
> No the lamp still flickers, it moves the apparently static tool to
> other rotational speeds which may or may not be a problem.
around 30,000 Hz.
--
*If your feet smell and your nose runs, you're built upside down.
Matty F
Oct 20, 2013, 7:57:09 PM10/20/13
to
On Monday, October 21, 2013 6:43:00 AM UTC+13, Phil L wrote:
> I don't know where this fable started but normal filament bulbs are still
> widely available and cheaper than chips - I've just this afternoon seen them
> at two for a quid in poundland, and almost every other general store also
> sells them
I look after a warehouse of filament bulbs and we even have a supply of carbon filament bulbs in their original packets dating from about 1900!
> I don't know where this fable started but normal filament bulbs are still
> widely available and cheaper than chips - I've just this afternoon seen them
> at two for a quid in poundland, and almost every other general store also
> sells them
Brian Gaff
Oct 20, 2013, 8:01:07 PM10/20/13
to
A long time ago when i was working, leans on old walking stick.. I recall
special lights whos phospher was long persistance or something like that,
for this very task of lighting in areas where lathes and such were sited.
Do these still exist? I never liked the light from them, it seemed cold to
me at the time.
Brian
--
From the Bed of Brian Gaff.
The email is valid as bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user.
"Huge" <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote in message
news:bcihbc...@mid.individual.net...
>
> Still widely available.
>
> 3,118 results for "GLS light bulb" on eBay.
>
>
> --
> Today is Pungenday, the 1st day of The Aftermath in the YOLD 3179
> Human being; a spacesuit for a fish
special lights whos phospher was long persistance or something like that,
for this very task of lighting in areas where lathes and such were sited.
Do these still exist? I never liked the light from them, it seemed cold to
me at the time.
Brian
--
From the Bed of Brian Gaff.
The email is valid as bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user.
"Huge" <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote in message
news:bcihbc...@mid.individual.net...
> On 2013-10-20, jim <jim_in...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Trying to choose lighting over my new garage/workshop.
>>
>> As is well known, flourescent lights (strip lights) on single phase
>> supplies do not mix happily with rotating machines due to the possibility
>> that flicker will make a rotating drive appear to be stationery.
>>
>> The remedy used to be to have a GLS lamp on at the same time.
>>
>> Now that GLS lamps have bitten the dust, what options are there?
>
> GLS lamps.
>> Trying to choose lighting over my new garage/workshop.
>>
>> As is well known, flourescent lights (strip lights) on single phase
>> supplies do not mix happily with rotating machines due to the possibility
>> that flicker will make a rotating drive appear to be stationery.
>>
>> The remedy used to be to have a GLS lamp on at the same time.
>>
>> Now that GLS lamps have bitten the dust, what options are there?
>
>
> Still widely available.
>
> 3,118 results for "GLS light bulb" on eBay.
>
>
> --
> Today is Pungenday, the 1st day of The Aftermath in the YOLD 3179
> Human being; a spacesuit for a fish
harryagain
Oct 21, 2013, 1:55:39 AM10/21/13
to
"jim" <jim_in...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7f970176-fc16-481a...@googlegroups.com...
be special twin fluorescent lights where one tube was phase shifted. This
produced continuous light.
Eg
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5434476.html
Google stroboscopic fluorescent lights.
Lots of info.
Andrew Gabriel
Oct 21, 2013, 5:02:41 AM10/21/13
to
In article <539dcc9...@davenoise.co.uk>,
because of the ion decay time (and this is also why there's an
increase in efficiency as you get to 5kHz). All electronic control
gear operates well above this, so no high frequency strobing is
possible.
--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
"Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> writes:
> In article <nyyfbegfubjuvyypb...@srv1.howhill.co.uk>,
> Dave Liquorice <allsortsn...@howhill.com> wrote:
>> > And removes the strobing problem.
>
>> No the lamp still flickers, it moves the apparently static tool to
>> other rotational speeds which may or may not be a problem.
>
> I'd be surprised if the phosphors in the tube react at all to frequencies
> around 30,000 Hz.
The discharge in the tube becomes continuous when operating at 5kHz
> In article <nyyfbegfubjuvyypb...@srv1.howhill.co.uk>,
> Dave Liquorice <allsortsn...@howhill.com> wrote:
>> > And removes the strobing problem.
>
>> No the lamp still flickers, it moves the apparently static tool to
>> other rotational speeds which may or may not be a problem.
>
> I'd be surprised if the phosphors in the tube react at all to frequencies
> around 30,000 Hz.
because of the ion decay time (and this is also why there's an
increase in efficiency as you get to 5kHz). All electronic control
gear operates well above this, so no high frequency strobing is
possible.
--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
Harry Bloomfield
Oct 21, 2013, 12:16:50 PM10/21/13
to
Bob Minchin laid this down on his screen :
Some do, many do not. You want a unit which runs at HF, you have to
specify it and pay extra.
--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk
specify it and pay extra.
--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk
Dave Plowman (News)
Oct 21, 2013, 12:46:41 PM10/21/13
to
In article <mn.ac0c7dda78...@NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk>,
--
*To be intoxicated is to feel sophisticated, but not be able to say it.
Harry Bloomfield <harry...@NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> > Modern fluorescent light run at much higher frequencies now in order
> > to achieve better efficiency and so the stroboscopic problem with
> > rotating machinery has been removed.
> Some do, many do not. You want a unit which runs at HF, you have to
> specify it and pay extra.
It really is worth it. Tube life seems to become near enough infinite. ;-)
> > Modern fluorescent light run at much higher frequencies now in order
> > to achieve better efficiency and so the stroboscopic problem with
> > rotating machinery has been removed.
> Some do, many do not. You want a unit which runs at HF, you have to
> specify it and pay extra.
--
*To be intoxicated is to feel sophisticated, but not be able to say it.
Harry Bloomfield
Oct 21, 2013, 12:54:34 PM10/21/13
to
It happens that Nightjar formulated :
Or putting them on the other two phases, if three pahes is available,
but HF is the better option.
but HF is the better option.
Harry Bloomfield
Oct 21, 2013, 12:58:05 PM10/21/13
to
Andrew Gabriel formulated on Monday :
> The discharge in the tube becomes continuous when operating at 5kHz
> because of the ion decay time (and this is also why there's an
> increase in efficiency as you get to 5kHz). All electronic control
> gear operates well above this, so no high frequency strobing is
> possible.
More efficient due to no energy being wasted heating the ballast up.
> because of the ion decay time (and this is also why there's an
> increase in efficiency as you get to 5kHz). All electronic control
> gear operates well above this, so no high frequency strobing is
> possible.
Andrew Gabriel
Oct 21, 2013, 2:48:17 PM10/21/13
to
In article <mn.ac367ddaf9...@nospam.tiscali.co.uk>,
around 10% more efficient as the operating frequency goes up past
5kHz. In the EU, electronic ballasts are required to take this into
account and underrun the tubes by this amount, and this means the
total circuit watts (including ballasts losses) are below the tube
rating for all but the smallest tubes.
Harry Bloomfield <harry...@NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk> writes:
> Andrew Gabriel formulated on Monday :
>> The discharge in the tube becomes continuous when operating at 5kHz
>> because of the ion decay time (and this is also why there's an
>> increase in efficiency as you get to 5kHz). All electronic control
>> gear operates well above this, so no high frequency strobing is
>> possible.
>
> More efficient due to no energy being wasted heating the ballast up.
Electronic ballasts give off less heat, but the tube itself gets
> Andrew Gabriel formulated on Monday :
>> The discharge in the tube becomes continuous when operating at 5kHz
>> because of the ion decay time (and this is also why there's an
>> increase in efficiency as you get to 5kHz). All electronic control
>> gear operates well above this, so no high frequency strobing is
>> possible.
>
> More efficient due to no energy being wasted heating the ballast up.
around 10% more efficient as the operating frequency goes up past
5kHz. In the EU, electronic ballasts are required to take this into
account and underrun the tubes by this amount, and this means the
total circuit watts (including ballasts losses) are below the tube
rating for all but the smallest tubes.
meow...@care2.com
Oct 21, 2013, 3:46:03 PM10/21/13
to
On Monday, October 21, 2013 12:57:09 AM UTC+1, Matty F wrote:
> I look after a warehouse of filament bulbs and we even have a supply of carbon filament bulbs in their original packets dating from about 1900!
/me places an order :)
> I look after a warehouse of filament bulbs and we even have a supply of carbon filament bulbs in their original packets dating from about 1900!
NT
Andrew Gabriel
Oct 21, 2013, 8:36:22 PM10/21/13
to
In article <8da605d3-9c27-4c98...@googlegroups.com>,
Carbon filament and squirrel cage lamps have made a come back
because they look different. Horrendous efficiency, of course.
BTW, carbon filament lamps explode if you switch on one after
air has leaked in though a crack.
because they look different. Horrendous efficiency, of course.
BTW, carbon filament lamps explode if you switch on one after
air has leaked in though a crack.
sm_jamieson
Oct 22, 2013, 1:10:15 PM10/22/13
to
On Monday, October 21, 2013 6:55:39 AM UTC+1, harry wrote:
> "jim" <jim_in...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:7f970176-fc16-481a...@googlegroups.com...
>
> > Trying to choose lighting over my new garage/workshop.
>
> >
>
> > As is well known, flourescent lights (strip lights) on single phase
>
> > supplies do not mix happily with rotating machines due to the possibility
>
> > that flicker will make a rotating drive appear to be stationery.
>
> >
>
> > The remedy used to be to have a GLS lamp on at the same time.
>
> >
>
> > Now that GLS lamps have bitten the dust, what options are there?
>
> >
>
> > Halogen?
>
> >
>
> > LED lamps? These seem to be powered by in-built switched mode power
>
> > supplies - Is there a potential to flicker?
>
> >
>
> > Any other options?
>
> >
>
>
>
> Failing a three phase supply with lights on separate phases, there used to
>
> be special twin fluorescent lights where one tube was phase shifted. This
>
> produced continuous light.
>
One method was lead and lag pairs, using inductive and capacitive ballasts, since the light peak occurs at different times.
> "jim" <jim_in...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:7f970176-fc16-481a...@googlegroups.com...
>
> > Trying to choose lighting over my new garage/workshop.
>
> >
>
> > As is well known, flourescent lights (strip lights) on single phase
>
> > supplies do not mix happily with rotating machines due to the possibility
>
> > that flicker will make a rotating drive appear to be stationery.
>
> >
>
> > The remedy used to be to have a GLS lamp on at the same time.
>
> >
>
> > Now that GLS lamps have bitten the dust, what options are there?
>
> >
>
> > Halogen?
>
> >
>
> > LED lamps? These seem to be powered by in-built switched mode power
>
> > supplies - Is there a potential to flicker?
>
> >
>
> > Any other options?
>
> >
>
>
>
> Failing a three phase supply with lights on separate phases, there used to
>
> be special twin fluorescent lights where one tube was phase shifted. This
>
> produced continuous light.
>
Simon.
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