Asbestos - what do you do?
OhDear
Just wondering... I've removed an old board that was covering a
fireplace in my flat. On the front of the chimney breast, underneath
about 6 layers of old wallpaper, I've exposed a small corner of a quite
soft, crumbly, dark grey material. I don't know how far in it goes,
because I stopped stripping the paper when I saw it.
Any possibility this contains asbestos? The flats were built in the
40's or 50's (I think), so the timing could be right.
More to the point, how do I get it checked out?
Thanks for any advice!
Chris Oates
"OhDear" <f...@ccx.uk> wrote in message
news:3f05f157$0$45180$65c6...@mercury.nildram.net...
The Natural Philosopher
Put a mask on, rip it out, put it in a black plastic bag and chuck it in
the bin, or bury it.
One exposure once won't kill you./
Asbestos- especailly teh sort normally used - is not really dangerous.
Unless you wok in a factory full of the stuff as dust.
Think cigarettes. Walking past someone smoking in a room won't kill you.
OldScrawn
>the bin, or bury it.
Other good precautions are to soak it with water / washing up liquid and only
handle it wet, or spray with dilute unibond and allow to dry. To be a really
good boy, double bag in strong poly bags (not flimsy bin liners). Phone your
local tip and see if they take it: if they do, they will have a special skip.
nightjar
>
> Just wondering... I've removed an old board that was covering a
> fireplace in my flat. On the front of the chimney breast, underneath
> about 6 layers of old wallpaper, I've exposed a small corner of a quite
> soft, crumbly, dark grey material. I don't know how far in it goes,
> because I stopped stripping the paper when I saw it.
>
> Any possibility this contains asbestos? The flats were built in the
> 40's or 50's (I think), so the timing could be right.
It sounds like pure asbestos sheet.
> More to the point, how do I get it checked out?
I would just spray on some dilute white PVA and then cover it up again.
Unless you need to remove it for some reason, it is better left undisturbed.
If you do want to have a room filled with people wearing moon suits and face
masks and a large bill for removing the stuff, call your local Council.
Colin Bignell
nightjar
"The Natural Philosopher" <a@b.c> wrote in message
news:3F06865E.4040702@b.c...
...
> One exposure once won't kill you./
There is one case that suggests it could - a workman who once helped unload
a lorry carrying asbestos sheet and who had no other known contact with the
stuff.
Colin Bignell
John Ormiston
My father in law recently died from a once only exposure to asbestos he
received some 30 years earlier.
Asbestos removal is not a Diy issue. Though well intentioned the advice
given could be seriously damaging to your health.
Get it checked out by people who know better.
--
John Ormiston
chris French
nightjar@?.?.invalid writes
I'm sure the are other cases.
Asbestos is not a cumulative poison, all it takes is one fibre and a bit
of bad luck.
Of course persistent exposure increases the likelihood of the disease
occurring because you ingest many more fibres.
this is unlike say smoking where the cumulative affect of the different
poisons is important. Which is why if you stop smoking the risk of many
of the related disease drops over time as you body gets ride of various
of the chemicals.
This was important in an insurance court case a few years ago where
asbestos workers had claimed compensation from a company. A number of
workers who had worked in two or more factories (different companies)
dealing with asbestos in Leeds were refused compensation because it was
argued it wasn't known exactly which factory the exact particle which
had caused the disease was from.
Eventually the high court, or the HOL or somewhere saw sense and found
for them and they got their money
--
Chris French, Leeds
Peter Parry
<john.or...@virgin.net> wrote:
>The advice that once only exposure won't harm you is completely WRONG.
Actually it is substantially correct. Although there is no minimum
safe exposure level for Asbestos there is an exposure/risk
relationship and one exposure is most unlikely to be harmful.
Moreover the material is probably white asbestos (Chrysotile) for
which the risk is considerably less than for blue or brown asbestos.
http://www.hse.gov.uk/statistics/causdis/meso.htm
In 2001 1600 people died of mesothelioma in the UK, the worst case
estimate is that 160 of these might be related to Chrysotile exposure
(compared with about 100 "spontaneous" cases which cannot be related
to asbestos exposure). Most of the cases come from workers in
shipbuilding; railway carriage building and the installation and
maintenance of lagging or other insulation materials in buildings or
industrial plant. Male mesothelioma deaths are concentrated in the
regions around the ports and dockyards. The gap between exposure and
disease developing is usually long - about 20 - 40 years, so present
death rates reflect exposure conditions in the 70's.
> Though well intentioned the advice given could be seriously damaging to your health.
It is possible, though very unlikely, that it might. The best thing
to do is leave the material undisturbed. If it must be moved, or if
it is likely to be damaged if left where it is you need to balance
the risk against the cost. For a small amount, removal with a few
sensible precautions such as those already mentioned represents a
extremely small hazard.
>Get it checked out by people who know better.
Unfortunately this is likely to be a very expensive option. The
government are so concerned by the risk that they make you pay all
the costs of removal yourself and if you ask the local authority to
test the stuff they may insist upon its removal by certified firms.
Asbestos removal is the waste industries answer to the goose that
lays golden eggs and a certified company would charge many hundreds,
if not a few thousand, pounds to remove your little bit of board.
I'm also not convinced it is pure asbestos sheet you have. It is
difficult to see why pure asbestos sheet, which is very fragile would
be used in a house at all, much less in the position you describe.
It is much more likely to be asbestos cement sheet, which contains
about 10% of chrysotile and for which DIY removal is perfectly safe.
<http://www.alnwick.gov.uk/alnwick/council.nsf/pages/Asbestos122231.html?OpenDocument&Start=1&Count=1000&ExpandView>
<http://www.ealing.gov.uk/services/pollution+control/asbestos.pdf.>
<http://www.york.gov.uk/environment/waste/asbestos1.html>
are some examples of local authority guidance on DIY removal of
asbestos cement sheet.
--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/
Michael McNeil
This is a silly thread. No one in their right mind would take as fact
these days what doctors used to tell their patients in the 70's.
Doctors have a license to kill babies and they are not held to all
that much account for senior citizens.
They (as a class not as individuals) used to think they were gods when
it came to informing patients about their illnesses.
A proper autopsy would need to be carried out by a very knowledgeable
bloke indeed to find out that there was only one fibre present and
that no more were removed by any means, natural or otherwise before
death. And who is to say where and when a man came into contact with
anything in the past?
If the sheet doesn't need removing, leave it. But you are not going to
leave the 6 layers of wall paper are you? Find out what the council is
going to charge you if you bite the bullet. And remember you only
found one piece. There may be others.
You had better have a word with your neighbours too as they may find
themselves in the "it" with you. Do the groundwork first and be very
circumspect.
Asbestolux is a similar looking board that contains about 10 to 15%
asbestos. Mind you I think that might be on the banned list by now
too. A Google search on websites (specify: UK) will get you more
advice.
I hope things work out OK.
The Natural Philosopher
Yup. Like the vegetarian who died of mad cow disease, or the non smoker
who got lung cancer.
Or teh father of a friend, non drinker, non smoker, vegetarina, strong
healthy wirey and totally young at 55 who just keeled over and died of a
heart attack...
Its possible to get significant lung disase from many many things. And
just because he had only one 'konw' case doesn't mean he wasn't living
with the stuff unbeknownst for years and years.
> Colin Bignell
>
>
>
>
>
The Natural Philosopher
> The advice that once only exposure won't harm you is completely WRONG.
> My father in law recently died from a once only exposure to asbestos he
> received some 30 years earlier.
Prove it.
Ed Sirett
>
> OhDear wrote:
>
> > Hi people,
> >
> > Just wondering... I've removed an old board that was covering a
> > fireplace in my flat. On the front of the chimney breast, underneath
> > about 6 layers of old wallpaper, I've exposed a small corner of a quite
> > soft, crumbly, dark grey material. I don't know how far in it goes,
> > because I stopped stripping the paper when I saw it.
> >
> > Any possibility this contains asbestos? The flats were built in the
> > 40's or 50's (I think), so the timing could be right.
> >
> > More to the point, how do I get it checked out?
> >
> > Thanks for any advice!
> >
>
> Put a mask on, rip it out, put it in a black plastic bag and chuck it in
> the bin, or bury it.
>
> One exposure once won't kill you./
Whilst I agree with your general argument. I think the above should
read:
Once is very very unlikely to kill you. As one poster pointed out safe
and dangerous are not absolute.
The phrase "It's safe" really means (IMHO) "It's no more dangerous than
everything else in life."
I think that at that period plaster was often grey, anyway.
>
> Asbestos- especailly teh sort normally used - is not really dangerous.
> Unless you wok in a factory full of the stuff as dust.
>
> Think cigarettes. Walking past someone smoking in a room won't kill you.
--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Simon Avery
Hello OhDear
> O| Just wondering... I've removed an old board that was
> O| covering a fireplace in my flat. On the front of the
> O| chimney breast, underneath about 6 layers of old wallpaper,
> O| I've exposed a small corner of a quite soft, crumbly, dark
> O| grey material. I don't know how far in it goes, because I
> O| stopped stripping the paper when I saw it.
Check the FAQ, I'm pretty sure it's got a link to the government
advice about asbestos, which doesn't contain the usual hysteria.
--
Simon Avery, Dartmoor, UK
uk.d-i-y FAQ: http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/
impvan
that case you're probably just looking at an old limey mortar mix
which the acids in the flue gasses have attacked. Look closely you
might even find clumps of horse/donkey hair binding it all together.
Soaking with weak (1:8) pva a good idea anyway.
OhDear
advice there.
The council were absolute rubbish, I ended up paying a private firm to
come out and take a look. They weren't sure, so took a sample and had
it lab tested.
No asbestos!
Okay, so it ended up costing me 84 quid - but better safe than sorry.
I'm not sure exactly what the grey material is yet as I've not seen the
lab report - probably some old dark grey plaster, although it does have
an odd fibrous appearance.
Thanks again!
Peter Parry
>I'm not sure exactly what the grey material is yet as I've not seen the
>lab report - probably some old dark grey plaster, although it does have
>an odd fibrous appearance.
Horsehair?
Andy Dingley
> probably some old dark grey plaster, although it does have
>an odd fibrous appearance.
If it looks obviously fibrous, it's horsehair not asbestos. You'd
need a hand lens to start seeing fibres in asbestos.
NickW
certainly not metal. Does this mean they are definately asbestos? Or
are there other construction materials like this that are not harmful?
If it helps, there is a picture of the barn in the background of this
photo:
http://home.no.net/enaasen/solar_complete.JPG
Thanks
Nick.
BigWallop
"NickW" <nick.w...@bt.com> wrote in message
news:ba9109ed.03071...@posting.google.com...
Hi Nick,
They do look like pressure moulded asbestos sheets, but you'd have to get
someone from your local University Science Department to have a look and
test them for you.
There are companies which will do the whole job for you, from the testing to
the removal, but they can work out rather expensive. So I'd suggest asking
your local Uni' if they have facilities to do the testing.
You can wear a proper micro filter face mask, rubber gloves and nothing else
but a disposable paper cover all suit, and do the breaking apart by yourself
but, it is a long slow process of changing gear and showering on site
everyday until your finished.
---
BigWallop
http://basecuritysystems.no-ip.com
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.500 / Virus Database: 298 - Release Date: 10/07/03
Barry
"Andy Dingley" <din...@codesmiths.com> wrote in message
news:k73tgv862qlg0hsbj...@4ax.com...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am very dubious about the asbestos cleaning industry...........you could
end up with a room full of guys in while cover all suits
and be charged a fortune....on the other hand you could be introuble with
just one exposure if fine particles get into air and then into you!
my view would be to follow the previous advice seal it or wet it double bag
it and take it to a tip that will accept it .Buy a second hand hoover and
bin it after clearing up.
Or as a surveyer said to me once..........if you are not going to disturb it
....and dont need to.... leave it alone. make a good job of coving it up .
good luck, its a bit of a dilemma
Barry
bob
Put a mask on, rip it out, put it in a black plastic bag and chuck it
in the bin, or bury it.
My suggestion:
Put a mask on, rip it out, put it in a black plastic bag and chuck it
in a field somewhere, or in a dyke miles from anywhere. Flytippers of
the world unite.
meow...@care2.com
I suspect the OP may have got the job finished by now. But you never
know!
(yes, I've had jobs take longer...)
NT
Peter Taylor
<meow...@care2.com> wrote in message
news:1137192538.1...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
If he's anything like me he'll still be pondering about it. I started my
bathroom refurb in 2001 and I'm still trying to decide on the flooring. My
excuse is if you're enjoying doing something, why not savour it and make it
last out as long as you can :)
Andrew Gabriel
"Barry" <acti...@waity.com> writes:
>
> I am very dubious about the asbestos cleaning industry...........you could
> end up with a room full of guys in while cover all suits
> and be charged a fortune....on the other hand you could be introuble with
> just one exposure if fine particles get into air and then into you!
There was an article on "You and Yours", Radio 4, last week about
how the asbestos clearing industry is a complete rip-off. There
was also an expert on asbestos health issues who pointed out that
90% of the asbestos products removed in these rip-off jobs have
never been known to cause a single case of any asbestos-related
disease, and just don't merit anything like the fuss people make
over them.
This was sparked off by a mother who rung up the HSE (or might
have been some other government body -- didn't catch that detail)
to ask what might be the effect on her son who had been kicking
a football against the wall of an asbestos sheet garage. They told
her he could become ill in 10 to 30 years, which understandably
had left her extremely worried. The advice was completely
inappropriate and irresponsible.
--
Andrew Gabriel
Owain
> If he's anything like me he'll still be pondering about it. I started
> my bathroom refurb in 2001 and I'm still trying to decide on the
> flooring. My excuse is if you're enjoying doing something, why not
> savour it and make it last out as long as you can :)
Besides, whilst the bathroom remains unfinished you can't really be
expected to start on the kitchen :-)
Owain
meow...@care2.com
Regrettably people whose job is safety can sometimes lose all
perspective. I see this with electrical matters, where trivial things
are sometimes claimed to be dangerous by safety inspectors, despite the
fact that the death rate from them is zero. A slightly leaky immersion
heater is a classic example. When theyre in a position of complete
authority, it seems theres no-one to question their ever creeping
judgements and bring them back to reality when they stray.
NT