Draw wire through 130m duct

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Ricardo

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Mar 27, 2007, 10:41:03 AM3/27/07
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I need to get a draw wire through a 130m of buried duct its 140mm
internal dia, it does have slight smoothe bends nothing serious, So
far compressed air and a carrier bag has been pondered as too has a
radio controlled car the latter of the two I am reluctant to try due
to possible rain water sitting in the bottom.


Any good suggestions?

Bob Mannix

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Mar 27, 2007, 10:46:44 AM3/27/07
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"Ricardo" <richard...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1175006463....@r56g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...

Set of 10 drain rods Ł15 for a weekend. can't be far off 1m each so two
sets, Ł30??


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)


Stuart Noble

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Mar 27, 2007, 10:47:55 AM3/27/07
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130 metres? Blimey. A Jack Russell and a rabbit?

Bob Mannix

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Mar 27, 2007, 10:48:49 AM3/27/07
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"Bob Mannix" <b1o...@mannix.org.uk> wrote in message
news:eubaok$a9c$1...@south.jnrs.ja.net...

>
> "Ricardo" <richard...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1175006463....@r56g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
>>I need to get a draw wire through a 130m of buried duct its 140mm
>> internal dia, it does have slight smoothe bends nothing serious, So
>> far compressed air and a carrier bag has been pondered as too has a
>> radio controlled car the latter of the two I am reluctant to try due
>> to possible rain water sitting in the bottom.
>>
>>
>> Any good suggestions?
>>
>
> Set of 10 drain rods £15 for a weekend. can't be far off 1m each so two
> sets, £30??
>
Doh! Order of magnitude out - must be too late in the day! Forget that!
/hides in shame/

Andrew Mawson

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Mar 27, 2007, 10:53:33 AM3/27/07
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"Ricardo" <richard...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1175006463....@r56g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...

Compressed air is probably the way to go, but you will need a vast air
reserve -

I calculate volume as 0.2 cubic metres or 7 cubic feet. You need a
compressor that can dump several times that quickly.

Begs the question why a draw rope wasn't inserted as it was laid.

AWEM


Andy McKenzie

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Mar 27, 2007, 11:07:48 AM3/27/07
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"Ricardo" <richard...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1175006463....@r56g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...


No! Only bad suggestions:

Ferret
Flood tunnel and use a wire atatched to the tail of a fish.
Radio controlled car with wireless camera so you can stop if you get to a
puddle!
Firework rocket with fine wire
Big magnet on surface to pull a metal weight along (you need one of the Acme
brand magnets that doesn't obey the inverse square law).
Collect tent poles from the abandoned junk after a rainy pop festival and
use them to push through.

Andy


Andy McKenzie

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Mar 27, 2007, 11:12:04 AM3/27/07
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"Andy McKenzie" <aam@no_spamplease.bgs.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:46093345$1...@news.nwl.ac.uk...

> "Ricardo" <richard...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1175006463....@r56g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
>>I need to get a draw wire through a 130m of buried duct its 140mm
>> internal dia, it does have slight smoothe bends nothing serious, So
>> far compressed air and a carrier bag has been pondered as too has a
>> radio controlled car the latter of the two I am reluctant to try due
>> to possible rain water sitting in the bottom.
>>
>>
>> Any good suggestions?

Actually a toy car isn't such a bad idea. Any jumble sale should get you a
few old Rc cars - and some have caterpillar tracks. The RC bit isn't needed.
You could probably waterproof one well enough to handle water once, and if
it fails drag it back out. (making sure your draw wire is strong enough!)

Andy


tony sayer

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Mar 27, 2007, 11:13:54 AM3/27/07
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In article <1175006463....@r56g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>,
Ricardo <richard...@hotmail.com> writes

Hungry Ferret at one end .. bunny rabbit at 't other!..

Small fan to push smell of bunny down the pipe!.

Seriously it has been used!..

The air and bag idea is quite a good one..
--
Tony Sayer


The Wanderer

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Mar 27, 2007, 11:49:41 AM3/27/07
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Going back a good few years, I've seen paddies using a tennis ball with a
length of string attached, blown through with the output from a road
breaker type of compressor.

--
the dot wanderer at tesco dot net

Dave Fawthrop

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Mar 27, 2007, 12:09:13 PM3/27/07
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On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 16:49:41 +0100, The Wanderer <m...@privacy.net> wrote:

|!On 27 Mar 2007 07:41:03 -0700, Ricardo wrote:
|!
|!> I need to get a draw wire through a 130m of buried duct its 140mm
|!> internal dia, it does have slight smoothe bends nothing serious, So
|!> far compressed air and a carrier bag has been pondered as too has a
|!> radio controlled car the latter of the two I am reluctant to try due
|!> to possible rain water sitting in the bottom.
|!
|!Going back a good few years, I've seen paddies using a tennis ball with a
|!length of string attached, blown through with the output from a road
|!breaker type of compressor.

When you get it in leave it there, you always need it again
--
Dave Fawthrop <sf hyphenologist.co.uk> 165 *Free* SF ebooks.
165 Sci Fi books on CDROM, from Project Gutenberg
http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Main_Page Completely Free to any
address in the UK. Contact me on the *above* email address.

Lurch

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Mar 27, 2007, 12:30:51 PM3/27/07
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On 27 Mar 2007 07:41:03 -0700, "Ricardo" <richard...@hotmail.com>
mused:

Yep.

http://www.hss.com/g/70715/Duct_Rod_120m_X_9mm.html

I'm sure you can get longer ones, a quick ring round the hire shops
should sort you out. I've used duct rods for runs with some reasonably
fierce bends and they've flown though.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

Lobster

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Mar 27, 2007, 12:39:39 PM3/27/07
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Somebody asked almost the same question here about a year ago, and
spawned a long discussion which may be useful:

http://tinyurl.com/2govtu (or
<http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk.d-i-y/browse_frm/thread/baba7b06983a0a5b/961e91baa0b8d3c3?lnk=st&q=duct+string+group%3Auk.d-i-y&rnum=3&hl=en#961e91baa0b8d3c3:
>
David

Clive Mitchell

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Mar 27, 2007, 4:58:03 PM3/27/07
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In message <1175006463....@r56g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>,
Ricardo <richard...@hotmail.com> writes

Are there no mid points on the run for access? That's a long run.

I tend to use a dedicated utility sized snake that comes on a metal reel
when I'm doing cabling between manholes in the street.

--
Clive Mitchell
http://www.bigclive.com

Clive Mitchell

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Mar 27, 2007, 4:58:03 PM3/27/07
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In message <4609...@news.nwl.ac.uk>, Andy McKenzie
<aam@no_spamplease.bgs.ac.uk> writes

>Actually a toy car isn't such a bad idea. Any jumble sale should get
>you a few old Rc cars - and some have caterpillar tracks. The RC bit
>isn't needed. You could probably waterproof one well enough to handle
>water once, and if it fails drag it back out. (making sure your draw
>wire is strong enough!)

No it's an absolutely terrible idea that may require digging up several
areas of the ground and opening the pipe to discover where the radio
controlled car has blocked it. RC signals don't pass through damp earth
too well anyway.

Underground cable ducting does flood, it also fills with grit and other
shit.

Big huge nylon feed-wire is a good choice. The compressed air system
and "rabbit" is commonly used by some utilities. But they tend to use
their jack-hammer compressor.

Clive Mitchell

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Mar 27, 2007, 4:58:03 PM3/27/07
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In message <1khi03huh2llagap1...@4ax.com>, Lurch
<use...@sjwelectrical.co.uk> writes

>http://www.hss.com/g/70715/Duct_Rod_120m_X_9mm.html
>
>I'm sure you can get longer ones, a quick ring round the hire shops
>should sort you out. I've used duct rods for runs with some reasonably
>fierce bends and they've flown though.

That's the one... It's amazing how well it goes through ducts.

Lurch

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Mar 27, 2007, 5:10:11 PM3/27/07
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On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 20:58:03 GMT, Clive Mitchell
<bigc...@ntlworld.com> mused:

I've got an offcut of one, about 20-25m long, that I have for long
runs on trays, above ceilings etc. It's flaming lethal, you have to
unwind it gently then run when it starts to let go and try and lay
itself out flat! You wouldn't think it was that dangerous after using
one that comes on the reel as it just rolls on and off easy as
anything.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

The Natural Philosopher

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Mar 27, 2007, 5:12:01 PM3/27/07
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Sounds like a job for a ferret to me :-)

Bill

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Mar 27, 2007, 6:10:29 PM3/27/07
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In message <117502992...@iris.uk.clara.net>, The Natural
Philosopher <a@b.c> writes

>
>Sounds like a job for a ferret to me :-)

It would never fit down the duct though;-)

http://tinyurl.com/2wpowh


>

--
Bill

Sparks

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Mar 27, 2007, 7:17:52 PM3/27/07
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"Ricardo" <richard...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1175006463....@r56g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...

Instead of compressed air - how about a vacuum cleaner and a carrier bag
(attached to fishing line)

I know this work really well for smaller ducts, and I have done it several
times, but on your run and bore, you might need a "super Hoover" to make it
work!

Or if the run is down hill, then you could attach a tennis ball to a line,
then squirt water down. to push it through

BT/NTL etc have a fiberglass rod on a reel, but I doubt that it would be
130m long as they usually have pits in the road/pavement a lot closer than
that - might be worth asking your friendly BT employee when you see one.

Tie/tape a line to a rat's tail, it will probably end up the other end,
eventually!!

A large-ish firework rocket with the stick removed may well work, but I
guess you would need the first meter or so of line to be metal, or it would
probably burn/melt!..preferably one that doesn't end with a large BANG - one
of the screamers would be best I guess

Sparks...

Lurch

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Mar 27, 2007, 7:22:53 PM3/27/07
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On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 00:17:52 +0100, "Sparks" <postm...@127.0.0.1>
mused:

>BT/NTL etc have a fiberglass rod on a reel, but I doubt that it would be
>130m long as they usually have pits in the road/pavement a lot closer than
>that - might be worth asking your friendly BT employee when you see one.
>

You didn't read any of the other replies then.

You're comment about the rolls that BT use not being 130m because they
are closer, what does that mean, I can't work it out.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

Bill

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Mar 28, 2007, 2:46:16 AM3/28/07
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In message <4609a61a$0$759$bed6...@news.gradwell.net>, Sparks
<postm...@127.0.0.1> writes

>BT/NTL etc have a fiberglass rod on a reel, but I doubt that it would
>be 130m long as they usually have pits in the road/pavement a lot
>closer than that - might be worth asking your friendly BT employee when
>you see one.

Similar to this? A bit pricey for a 1 off job but they must be
available for hire somewhere.

http://www.millsltd.co.uk/productDetail.cfm?partNo=S00-1355


--
Bill

Andy McKenzie

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Mar 28, 2007, 4:34:41 AM3/28/07
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"Clive Mitchell" <bigc...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:m01MPvM2...@ntlworld.com...

Of course it was a terrible idea - but the blocking of the RC signal is
irrelevant because you don't need to control the car - you just lock it into
forward and I did say that you needed a strong enough draw wire to drag it
back out!

Andy


Dave Plowman (News)

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Mar 28, 2007, 4:20:07 AM3/28/07
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In article <4609a61a$0$759$bed6...@news.gradwell.net>,

Sparks <postm...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> Instead of compressed air - how about a vacuum cleaner and a carrier bag
> (attached to fishing line)

> I know this work really well for smaller ducts, and I have done it
> several times, but on your run and bore, you might need a "super
> Hoover" to make it work!

Using vacuum you're restricted to atmospheric pressure - at very best. No
such restriction with compressed air. If you've got a vacuum which blows
as well as sucks, the blow part will be more efficient.

--
*If at first you do succeed, try not to look too astonished.

Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Paul Herber

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Mar 28, 2007, 8:48:29 AM3/28/07
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Borrowing from 2 of my immediate neighbours would get me 45m of drain
rods ...


--
Regards, Paul Herber, Sandrila Ltd.
Electronics for Visio http://www.electronics.sandrila.co.uk/

Lurch

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Mar 28, 2007, 3:29:30 PM3/28/07
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On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 06:46:16 GMT, Bill <Bi...@birchnet.demon.co.uk>
mused:

>In message <4609a61a$0$759$bed6...@news.gradwell.net>, Sparks
><postm...@127.0.0.1> writes
>>BT/NTL etc have a fiberglass rod on a reel, but I doubt that it would
>>be 130m long as they usually have pits in the road/pavement a lot
>>closer than that - might be worth asking your friendly BT employee when
>>you see one.
>
>Similar to this? A bit pricey for a 1 off job but they must be
>available for hire somewhere.
>

Am I in everyones killfile or something? I posted a link to a hire
shop with a duct rod in it the other day and no-one seems to have read
it?

If there is a problem with some of my posts not showing please let me
know. Thanks.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

Stuart Noble

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Mar 28, 2007, 3:50:01 PM3/28/07
to

You posted "the right answer", hence the silence :-)

Graeme

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Mar 28, 2007, 3:49:25 PM3/28/07
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In message <0egl03h1grelfmgp9...@4ax.com>, Lurch
<use...@sjwelectrical.co.uk> writes

>>
>Am I in everyones killfile or something? I posted a link to a hire
>shop with a duct rod in it the other day and no-one seems to have read
>it?
>
Your original message appeared here, and made good sense. Duct rod,
120m, about 20 quid for a weekend. Perfect.
--
Graeme

Lurch

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Mar 28, 2007, 4:03:13 PM3/28/07
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On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 19:50:01 GMT, Stuart Noble
<stuart_no...@ntlworld.com> mused:

Hmm, I'll have to stop doing that then.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

Lurch

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Mar 28, 2007, 4:04:09 PM3/28/07
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On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 20:49:25 +0100, Graeme <Gra...@nospam.demon.co.uk>
mused:

That's alright then, I'll put it down to people not being fully up to
speed with how to read a thread\click links etc....
--
Regards,
Stuart.

fred

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Mar 28, 2007, 6:49:56 PM3/28/07
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In article <6gil03p2iut9u92u0...@4ax.com>, Lurch
<use...@sjwelectrical.co.uk> writes

There are many who read an o/p's post and reply without any reference to
the rest of the thread, leading to many diverging non-solutions. I'm sure the
o/ps reads all the posts so will see the useful stuff. That said, many o/ps
don't acknowledge helpful posts.

Rest assured, you're on the white list in my newsreader (even if your
current solution is 10m short of the o/p's requirement) :-D
--
fred
Plusnet - I hope you like vanilla

Lurch

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Mar 28, 2007, 7:01:07 PM3/28/07
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On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 22:49:56 GMT, fred <n...@for.mail> mused:

>Rest assured, you're on the white list in my newsreader (even if your
>current solution is 10m short of the o/p's requirement) :-D

Ssssh, I was hoping no-one would mention that bit too much.

But, longer ones are available, I just didn't see any the other day.

I believe this may be one, but a picture would be handy.

<http://www.speedyhire.co.uk/technical_catalogue.aspx?id=3333&fSize=smaller&fImages=1&nav=|0|0|0|2927|2935|2950|2949|8|3304|3291|3333|3351|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0>

I think the above link is the the cobra half way down the page here,
but not sure, a phone call may be in order.

<http://www.speedyhire.co.uk/survey/detection_hire.aspx>

Or even this one from Brandon, looks a good price too. Not so many
Brandon tool hire places though as Speedy's or HSS's

http://www.brandontoolhire.co.uk/Directory/prodView.asp?idproduct=300
--
Regards,
Stuart.

Andy Dingley

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Mar 28, 2007, 7:36:31 PM3/28/07
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On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 16:13:54 +0100, tony sayer <to...@bancom.co.uk>
wrote:

>Hungry Ferret at one end .. bunny rabbit at 't other!..

Ferret and compressed air.

I can even supply the ferret
(evil, bitey smelly little bastard that it is).

Dave Plowman (News)

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Mar 28, 2007, 7:48:07 PM3/28/07
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In article <5fsl03t5t4vft35cf...@4ax.com>,

Lurch <use...@sjwelectrical.co.uk> wrote:
> >Rest assured, you're on the white list in my newsreader (even if your
> >current solution is 10m short of the o/p's requirement) :-D

> Ssssh, I was hoping no-one would mention that bit too much.

> But, longer ones are available, I just didn't see any the other day.

There must be a limit of how far you can push a flexible rod? We've got
cable TV here and they seem to work on more like 100 yards max.

--
*Why is the time of day with the slowest traffic called rush hour?

Duracell Bunny

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Mar 29, 2007, 3:59:38 AM3/29/07
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Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <5fsl03t5t4vft35cf...@4ax.com>,
> Lurch <use...@sjwelectrical.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Rest assured, you're on the white list in my newsreader (even if your
>>> current solution is 10m short of the o/p's requirement) :-D
>
>> Ssssh, I was hoping no-one would mention that bit too much.
>
>> But, longer ones are available, I just didn't see any the other day.
>
> There must be a limit of how far you can push a flexible rod? We've got
> cable TV here and they seem to work on more like 100 yards max.
>
When the run gets a little too long, there are lubricants available that help
reduce the friction. Anything soapy will do, essentially, but it makes
_everything_ really slippery to handle, including of course the rods you're
pushing down the conduits. Have one person down the hole with the lube & guiding
the snake, while you stay up top hands clean & dry handling only clean & dry
snake till it emerges out the other end.

It's not going to be easy, we normally install a pulling pit every 50-75 metres,
plus one each side of a bend. If you have any bends in your 130m run, you're in
deep trouble & blowing it through may be the only option, assuming the conduit
is still reasonably clean (they never are)

--
Karen

If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning.'
Catherine Aird

Andrew Mawson

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Mar 29, 2007, 4:49:35 AM3/29/07
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"Duracell Bunny" <kare...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:460b718f$0$7397$5a62...@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...

If, and it is a >BIG IF<, you can arrange a large water tank at the
head end of the run, and can let water quickly disperse at the tail
end, rather than use an air compressor you could tie a stout cord
through a suitable sized ball, and wash it down with a rapid pulse of
water. This assumes there is a fall of course.

AWEM


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