ISE washing machines

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Stephen Howard

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Nov 22, 2008, 6:53:50 AM11/22/08
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My Zanussi is on its last legs - the bearing is rumbling, and it looks
to be a complete PITA to change it - so the hunt is on for a
replacement.
I've heard good things about ISE washing machines, apparently designed
by repair engineers, with an emphasis on reliability, simplicity and
serviceability. Sounds good on paper, but has anyone here had any
experience of them?

Regards,


--
Steve ( out in the sticks )
Email: Take time to reply: timefrom_usenet{at}gmx.net

dawoo...@gmail.com

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Nov 22, 2008, 7:19:44 AM11/22/08
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I don't really know about ISE machines but I would recommend you get a
Miele washing machine.

dawoo...@gmail.com

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Nov 22, 2008, 7:22:38 AM11/22/08
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Adrian C

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Nov 22, 2008, 7:33:43 AM11/22/08
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Hmmm, interesting.

<http://www.iseappliances.co.uk/downloads/isebrochure2.pdf>

"Our aim is to reduce the quantity of domestic appliances sold in the UK
each year. To achieve this we needed retailers who also have a vested
interest in durability and reparability rather than volume sales.
Therefore ISE is only sold by Independent repairers who would rather fix
your old machine than sell you another one or specialist retailers of
environmentally friendly products who we link to a local repairer to
install and service the products sold."

Now which other industry is taking the same stance with their products?

--
Adrian C

Fred

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Nov 22, 2008, 7:43:13 AM11/22/08
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"Adrian C" <em...@here.invalid> wrote in message
news:6oqch7F...@mid.individual.net...

> dawoo...@gmail.com wrote:
>> This is a helpful link:
>> http://www.washerhelp.co.uk/reviews/ISE-CI555WH-review.html
>
> Hmmm, interesting.
>
> <http://www.iseappliances.co.uk/downloads/isebrochure2.pdf>
>
> "Our aim is to reduce the quantity of domestic appliances sold in the UK
> each year. To achieve this we needed retailers who also have a vested
> interest in durability and reparability rather than volume sales.
> Therefore ISE is only sold by Independent repairers who would rather fix
> your old machine than sell you another one or specialist retailers of
> environmentally friendly products who we link to a local repairer to
> install and service the products sold."
>

Sounds as if there are built in stock faults, easy to fix and easy money for
independent repairers!


Lino expert

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Nov 22, 2008, 8:14:10 AM11/22/08
to
On 22 Nov, 11:53, Stephen Howard <seesig...@email.uk> wrote:
> My Zanussi is on its last legs - the bearing is rumbling, and it looks
> to be a complete PITA to change it - so the hunt is on for a
> replacement.
> I've heard good things about ISE washing machines, apparently designed
> by repair engineers, with an emphasis on reliability, simplicity and
> serviceability. Sounds good on paper, but has anyone here had any
> experience of them?


No first hand personal experience to draw from regarding the machines
themselves, but they're made by companies who have signed up to agree
to build to standards set by a group called UK Whitegoods, as you
probably already know.
I can recommend them as a company and their website's extremely
useful.

I've only ever been to them in connection with a fridge and they were
top notch - only downside being they couldn't explain why it didn't
launder very well.

Lino expert

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Nov 22, 2008, 8:15:11 AM11/22/08
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d...@gglz.com

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Nov 22, 2008, 12:22:06 PM11/22/08
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> Sounds as if there are built in stock faults, easy to fix and easy money for
> independent repairers!

That would be rather self-defeating, as the top models include 10
years parts & labour.

meow...@care2.com

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Nov 22, 2008, 1:44:54 PM11/22/08
to
Stephen Howard wrote:

> My Zanussi is on its last legs - the bearing is rumbling, and it looks
> to be a complete PITA to change it - so the hunt is on for a
> replacement.
> I've heard good things about ISE washing machines, apparently designed
> by repair engineers, with an emphasis on reliability, simplicity and
> serviceability. Sounds good on paper, but has anyone here had any
> experience of them?
>
> Regards,

Wonder if the claims translate into reality

Its a funny thing, but we never used to pay £800 for a washing machine
that lasted 15 yrs.


NT

Stephen Howard

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Nov 22, 2008, 5:47:02 PM11/22/08
to
On Sat, 22 Nov 2008 10:44:54 -0800 (PST), meow...@care2.com wrote:

>Stephen Howard wrote:
>
>> My Zanussi is on its last legs - the bearing is rumbling, and it looks
>> to be a complete PITA to change it - so the hunt is on for a
>> replacement.
>> I've heard good things about ISE washing machines, apparently designed
>> by repair engineers, with an emphasis on reliability, simplicity and
>> serviceability. Sounds good on paper, but has anyone here had any
>> experience of them?
>>
>

>Wonder if the claims translate into reality

That's kind of why I posted the query.
The specs ( for the ISE5 ) look good, and the ethos is appealing -
especially the low-cost parts and serviceability - and the reviews
seem to match the comments posted by owners on the whitegoods forum,
but I'm inclined to think we're a slightly-harder-to-please bunch on
this forum.


>
>Its a funny thing, but we never used to pay £800 for a washing machine
>that lasted 15 yrs.

I'd be reasonably surprised if modern machines didn't work out cheaper
when you factored in purchase price as a percentage of the average
weekly wage, operating costs, functionality and effectiveness.


Regards.

--
Stephen Howard
Woodwind repairs & period restorations
http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk

Rod

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Nov 22, 2008, 5:51:39 PM11/22/08
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It looks and sounds rather like the Asea models of quite a few years
ago. Have ABB spun off their appliances company?

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
<www.thyromind.info> <www.thyroiduk.org> <www.altsupportthyroid.org>

Mark

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Nov 22, 2008, 5:53:35 PM11/22/08
to

Stephen Howard <sees...@email.uk> wrote in message
news:ldsfi419dnc4h3a6g...@4ax.com...

>
> I've heard good things about ISE washing machines, apparently designed
> by repair engineers, with an emphasis on reliability, simplicity and
> serviceability. Sounds good on paper, but has anyone here had any
> experience of them?
>
> Regards,
>
>

But can joe public buy spares for them when out of warrantee, I cant find
anything listed.
At least with Bosch parts are easily obtained for diy repair, at admittedly
inflated prices.

-

meow...@care2.com

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Nov 22, 2008, 6:43:21 PM11/22/08
to
Stephen Howard wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Nov 2008 10:44:54 -0800 (PST), meow...@care2.com wrote:
>
> >Stephen Howard wrote:

> >> My Zanussi is on its last legs - the bearing is rumbling, and it looks
> >> to be a complete PITA to change it - so the hunt is on for a
> >> replacement.
> >> I've heard good things about ISE washing machines, apparently designed
> >> by repair engineers, with an emphasis on reliability, simplicity and
> >> serviceability. Sounds good on paper, but has anyone here had any
> >> experience of them?
> >>
> >
> >Wonder if the claims translate into reality
>
> That's kind of why I posted the query.
> The specs ( for the ISE5 ) look good, and the ethos is appealing -
> especially the low-cost parts and serviceability - and the reviews
> seem to match the comments posted by owners on the whitegoods forum,
> but I'm inclined to think we're a slightly-harder-to-please bunch on
> this forum.

They sound serious about it, but they might be less than perfectly
skilled in the design dept, resulting in the claims not working out in
practice

> >Its a funny thing, but we never used to pay �800 for a washing machine
> >that lasted 15 yrs.
>
> I'd be reasonably surprised if modern machines didn't work out cheaper
> when you factored in purchase price as a percentage of the average
> weekly wage, operating costs, functionality and effectiveness.

I guess so. Thats 2-3 decades of inflation for you. Certainly WMs are
far more common now than 20-30 yrs ago, which seems to confirm that.


NT

Stephen Howard

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Nov 22, 2008, 8:24:57 PM11/22/08
to
On Sat, 22 Nov 2008 15:43:21 -0800 (PST), meow...@care2.com wrote:

>Stephen Howard wrote:
>> On Sat, 22 Nov 2008 10:44:54 -0800 (PST), meow...@care2.com wrote:
>>
>> >Stephen Howard wrote:
>
>> >> My Zanussi is on its last legs - the bearing is rumbling, and it looks
>> >> to be a complete PITA to change it - so the hunt is on for a
>> >> replacement.
>> >> I've heard good things about ISE washing machines, apparently designed
>> >> by repair engineers, with an emphasis on reliability, simplicity and
>> >> serviceability. Sounds good on paper, but has anyone here had any
>> >> experience of them?
>> >>
>> >
>> >Wonder if the claims translate into reality
>>
>> That's kind of why I posted the query.
>> The specs ( for the ISE5 ) look good, and the ethos is appealing -
>> especially the low-cost parts and serviceability - and the reviews
>> seem to match the comments posted by owners on the whitegoods forum,
>> but I'm inclined to think we're a slightly-harder-to-please bunch on
>> this forum.
>
>They sound serious about it, but they might be less than perfectly
>skilled in the design dept, resulting in the claims not working out in
>practice

Depends how much they were involved in the design. From what I can see
these machines are built in various factories to a list of
requirements ( such as a particular spec of bearing, placement of the
motor etc. ) and I'd assume that the factory designers work with those
parameters.
In my own profession I'd be more than capable of speccing an
instrument - the design I'd leave to those better qualified to sort
such things out.
From what I've seen on the faq pages they seem to know a few things
about what makes a machine reliable and serviceable.
>
>
>> >Its a funny thing, but we never used to pay ?800 for a washing machine


>> >that lasted 15 yrs.
>>
>> I'd be reasonably surprised if modern machines didn't work out cheaper
>> when you factored in purchase price as a percentage of the average
>> weekly wage, operating costs, functionality and effectiveness.
>
>I guess so. Thats 2-3 decades of inflation for you. Certainly WMs are
>far more common now than 20-30 yrs ago, which seems to confirm that.
>

People do far more washes these days - my mum's old machine used to
take the best part of half a day to cope with a wash...the Zanussi
will do ( and often does ) three or more in that time.
Modern machines also handle the sort of washes that used to be done by
hand and certainly run at far higher speeds on spin.
When my mum's old machine got replaced it was still working - but it
simply wasn't able to cope with the ever increasing demand placed upon
it.

Mind you, it looks rather academic - I showed swmbo a piccy of the
ISE5 and she said she didn't like its looks, said it had a 'sticky-out
knob' ( yeah, I know ).
That leaves Miele, Bosch, Seimens and, apparently, John Lewis's own
brand.

I might try sulking a bit.

Regards,

BigWallop

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Nov 22, 2008, 9:07:19 PM11/22/08
to

"Stephen Howard" <sees...@email.uk> wrote in message
news:m7bhi4pj65hvngdtd...@4ax.com...
<<<snipped>>>

>
> Mind you, it looks rather academic - I showed swmbo a piccy of the
> ISE5 and she said she didn't like its looks, said it had a 'sticky-out
> knob' ( yeah, I know ).
> That leaves Miele, Bosch, Seimens and, apparently, John Lewis's own
> brand.
>
> I might try sulking a bit.
>
> Regards,
> Stephen Howard
>

All these machines are pretty much a standard now. Although, saying that,
the materials used on some, do have issues on reliability in use. A well
known brand name is not a guarantee of quality these days, either. I think
the only way to find out if any of them are good enough, is to ask others
who have braved the sales floor and bought a particular one.

Tell her indoors that you ended up being a good reliable purchase, even with
your sticky-outy-bits. :-)

meow...@care2.com

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Nov 22, 2008, 11:43:46 PM11/22/08
to

A few things isnt enough. Do they know it all? It only takes one
oversight, & its not hard to do. And of course there are other ways to
go wrong,


> >> >Its a funny thing, but we never used to pay ?800 for a washing machine
> >> >that lasted 15 yrs.
> >>
> >> I'd be reasonably surprised if modern machines didn't work out cheaper
> >> when you factored in purchase price as a percentage of the average
> >> weekly wage, operating costs, functionality and effectiveness.
> >
> >I guess so. Thats 2-3 decades of inflation for you. Certainly WMs are
> >far more common now than 20-30 yrs ago, which seems to confirm that.
> >
> People do far more washes these days - my mum's old machine used to
> take the best part of half a day to cope with a wash...the Zanussi
> will do ( and often does ) three or more in that time.
> Modern machines also handle the sort of washes that used to be done by
> hand and certainly run at far higher speeds on spin.
> When my mum's old machine got replaced it was still working - but it
> simply wasn't able to cope with the ever increasing demand placed upon
> it.
>
> Mind you, it looks rather academic - I showed swmbo a piccy of the
> ISE5 and she said she didn't like its looks, said it had a 'sticky-out
> knob' ( yeah, I know ).

can always trim the knob & spindle if necessary.


NT

Lino expert

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Nov 23, 2008, 6:28:51 AM11/23/08
to
On 22 Nov, 12:19, dawoods...@gmail.com wrote:

Asko, the quality-equivalent of Miele, pulled out of England in 2000,
but they make for ISE.
My folks have had their Asko for at least twenty years and have seen
an engineer once in that time, who himself said (in the style of a
wide-mouthed frog) "I don't see many of these".

RW

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Nov 23, 2008, 9:31:28 AM11/23/08
to

"Stephen Howard" <sees...@email.uk> wrote in message
news:ldsfi419dnc4h3a6g...@4ax.com...

>
> My Zanussi is on its last legs - the bearing is rumbling, and it looks
> to be a complete PITA to change it - so the hunt is on for a
> replacement.
> I've heard good things about ISE washing machines, apparently designed
> by repair engineers, with an emphasis on reliability, simplicity and
> serviceability. Sounds good on paper, but has anyone here had any
> experience of them?

I have changed the drum bearings on our Zanussi (22 yrs old!) twice in the
last 9 years and it's still going strong.

Gwan.................it's not as hard as you think.
Bearing from local supplier was £6


John Stumbles

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Nov 23, 2008, 11:38:36 AM11/23/08
to
On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 03:28:51 -0800, Lino expert wrote:

> wide-mouthed frog "I don't see many of these".

Heh! I'd forgotten that one!

--
John Stumbles

Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus
and Pop Psychologists are from Uranus

John Stumbles

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Nov 23, 2008, 11:43:10 AM11/23/08
to
On Sat, 22 Nov 2008 10:44:54 -0800, meow2222 wrote:

> Its a funny thing, but we never used to pay £800 for a washing machine
> that lasted 15 yrs.

Yebbut how much would what you'd have had to pay 15 years ago for a
machine which could be expected to last 15 years be worth at today's prices?


--
John Stumbles

Time flies like an arrow
Fruit flies like a banana
Tits like coconuts

Ed Sirett

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Nov 23, 2008, 3:42:06 PM11/23/08
to

BMW? Lexus?


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

Ed Sirett

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Nov 23, 2008, 3:44:44 PM11/23/08
to
On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 16:43:10 +0000, John Stumbles wrote:

> On Sat, 22 Nov 2008 10:44:54 -0800, meow2222 wrote:
>
>> Its a funny thing, but we never used to pay £800 for a washing machine
>> that lasted 15 yrs.
>
> Yebbut how much would what you'd have had to pay 15 years ago for a
> machine which could be expected to last 15 years be worth at today's
> prices?

ISTM that the initial cost of most white goods have come down a long long
way over the last 25 years.

Stephen Howard

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Nov 23, 2008, 7:09:14 PM11/23/08
to

Have you seen what they've done with regard to modular construction in
the last 20 years?
I've fixed up a few machines over the years, but this one made me
baulk. Here's a link to bearing job on a similar machine:

http://www.christran.net/washingmachine1.htm

Stephen Howard

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Nov 23, 2008, 7:18:54 PM11/23/08
to
On Sat, 22 Nov 2008 20:43:46 -0800 (PST), meow...@care2.com wrote:

>Stephen Howard wrote:
>> On Sat, 22 Nov 2008 15:43:21 -0800 (PST), meow...@care2.com wrote:
>>

<snip>


>> From what I've seen on the faq pages they seem to know a few things
>> about what makes a machine reliable and serviceable.
>
>A few things isnt enough. Do they know it all? It only takes one
>oversight, & its not hard to do. And of course there are other ways to
>go wrong,
>

More than most, I'd say - and certainly more than the bods at Zanussi
by the looks of it.


>
>> Mind you, it looks rather academic - I showed swmbo a piccy of the
>> ISE5 and she said she didn't like its looks, said it had a 'sticky-out
>> knob' ( yeah, I know ).
>
>can always trim the knob & spindle if necessary.
>

On the wife's brand new washing machine??
I think I'll go check if any Danish newspapers need a religious
cartoonist instead...

BigWallop

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Nov 23, 2008, 7:33:41 PM11/23/08
to

"Stephen Howard" <sees...@email.uk> wrote in message
news:onrji4do9ce5o5q9a...@4ax.com...

It's a much simpler job with one of these
http://www.justoffbase.co.uk/165mm-Reach-X-160mm-Spread-Triple-Leg-Reversible-Puller-43949-Draper-N133 I'd never be without mine. :-)

Stephen Howard

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Nov 23, 2008, 7:41:27 PM11/23/08
to
On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 00:33:41 GMT, "BigWallop"
<spam....@good-spam-guard.com> wrote:

>
>"Stephen Howard" <sees...@email.uk> wrote in message

>> >


>> Have you seen what they've done with regard to modular construction in
>> the last 20 years?
>> I've fixed up a few machines over the years, but this one made me
>> baulk. Here's a link to bearing job on a similar machine:
>>
>> http://www.christran.net/washingmachine1.htm
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>
>It's a much simpler job with one of these
>http://www.justoffbase.co.uk/165mm-Reach-X-160mm-Spread-Triple-Leg-Reversible-Puller-43949-Draper-N133 I'd never be without mine. :-)
>
>

That's a start, I've got one of those...somewhere...

Andrew Gabriel

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Nov 24, 2008, 4:12:52 AM11/24/08
to
In article <onrji4do9ce5o5q9a...@4ax.com>,

Stephen Howard <sees...@email.uk> writes:
> Have you seen what they've done with regard to modular construction in
> the last 20 years?
> I've fixed up a few machines over the years, but this one made me
> baulk. Here's a link to bearing job on a similar machine:
>
> http://www.christran.net/washingmachine1.htm

Interesting to see that those instructions match my 22 year old
Hotpoint. You only need to replace the drum spider and shaft
assembly if the bearing has rusted on to the shaft. Otherwise
you only need to replace the bearing and bearing seal (and I've
only ever seen the inner bearing fail, so you usually don't need
to bust a gut trying to get the smaller outer bearing out).
It didn't take me anything like 6 hours, even first time.
Subsequent replacements took about an hour or just over.
BTW, it was about 18 years before the first bearing failed.

Problem I've got now is that the inner bearing seased at some
point and the whole bearing assembly started turning in the
drum bearing sleave, which means it's worn too big, wobbles
even when you fit a brand new bearing, and consequently leaks
enough water past the bearing seal to rust it in a year. That
needs a new drum, which at around the £100 mark for a 22 year
old machine, seems like a step too far. Bearings are dirt cheap
(under a fiver), so I've kept it going by replacing them once
a year, but the wear on the bearing sleeve is now too much.
Just waiting for the VAT rate to go down and the Sales before
I pension off my much loved 22 year old washer.

I've heard that a number of new machines no longer have
replacable bearings. You have to replace the whole outer drum.
Anyone know which ones these are (to avoid them)?

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Message has been deleted

Stephen Howard

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Nov 24, 2008, 5:31:53 AM11/24/08
to
On 24 Nov 2008 09:12:52 GMT, and...@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:

>In article <onrji4do9ce5o5q9a...@4ax.com>,
> Stephen Howard <sees...@email.uk> writes:
>> Have you seen what they've done with regard to modular construction in
>> the last 20 years?
>> I've fixed up a few machines over the years, but this one made me
>> baulk. Here's a link to bearing job on a similar machine:
>>
>> http://www.christran.net/washingmachine1.htm
>
>Interesting to see that those instructions match my 22 year old
>Hotpoint. You only need to replace the drum spider and shaft
>assembly if the bearing has rusted on to the shaft. Otherwise
>you only need to replace the bearing and bearing seal (and I've
>only ever seen the inner bearing fail, so you usually don't need
>to bust a gut trying to get the smaller outer bearing out).
>It didn't take me anything like 6 hours, even first time.
>Subsequent replacements took about an hour or just over.
>BTW, it was about 18 years before the first bearing failed.

That's encouraging, thanks!


>
>Problem I've got now is that the inner bearing seased at some
>point and the whole bearing assembly started turning in the
>drum bearing sleave, which means it's worn too big, wobbles
>even when you fit a brand new bearing, and consequently leaks
>enough water past the bearing seal to rust it in a year. That

>needs a new drum, which at around the Ł100 mark for a 22 year


>old machine, seems like a step too far. Bearings are dirt cheap
>(under a fiver), so I've kept it going by replacing them once
>a year, but the wear on the bearing sleeve is now too much.
>Just waiting for the VAT rate to go down and the Sales before
>I pension off my much loved 22 year old washer.
>
>I've heard that a number of new machines no longer have
>replacable bearings. You have to replace the whole outer drum.
>Anyone know which ones these are (to avoid them)?

That's what I need to find out - I have a nasty feeling.

http://www.ukwhitegoods.co.uk/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=155

or http://tinyurl.com/y593zc

Andrew Gabriel

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Nov 24, 2008, 6:17:33 AM11/24/08
to
In article <ggdu6a$2kq$1...@anubis.demon.co.uk>,
Huge <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> writes:

> On 2008-11-24, Andrew Gabriel <and...@cucumber.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Problem I've got now is that the inner bearing seased at some
> ^
> seized
>
> You're welcome.

My original attempt was ceased.

meow...@care2.com

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Nov 24, 2008, 6:58:42 AM11/24/08
to
Stephen Howard wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Nov 2008 20:43:46 -0800 (PST), meow...@care2.com wrote:
> >Stephen Howard wrote:
> >> On Sat, 22 Nov 2008 15:43:21 -0800 (PST), meow...@care2.com wrote:

> >> From what I've seen on the faq pages they seem to know a few things
> >> about what makes a machine reliable and serviceable.
> >
> >A few things isnt enough. Do they know it all? It only takes one
> >oversight, & its not hard to do. And of course there are other ways to
> >go wrong,
> >
> More than most, I'd say - and certainly more than the bods at Zanussi
> by the looks of it.

Sorry but theres no way you can tell the relative skill levels of the
designers from their site. One can see theyre aiming for a better
machine, but the issues they list there are just a tiny fraction of
the factors that affect reliability and longevity. What makes the
difference in machine life is both designer skill and budget -
skillled designers produce cut price goods as wel as top end ones.


> >> Mind you, it looks rather academic - I showed swmbo a piccy of the
> >> ISE5 and she said she didn't like its looks, said it had a 'sticky-out
> >> knob' ( yeah, I know ).
> >
> >can always trim the knob & spindle if necessary.
> >
> On the wife's brand new washing machine??

Its not difficult. Remove knob, trim the non-visible end, trim spindle
and it will go back on in a more flush position.


NT

meow...@care2.com

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Nov 24, 2008, 7:07:35 AM11/24/08
to
BigWallop wrote:
> "Stephen Howard" <sees...@email.uk> wrote in message
> news:onrji4do9ce5o5q9a...@4ax.com...
> > On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 14:31:28 -0000, "RW" <No...@here.net> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >"Stephen Howard" <sees...@email.uk> wrote in message
> > >news:ldsfi419dnc4h3a6g...@4ax.com...
> > >>
> > >> My Zanussi is on its last legs - the bearing is rumbling, and it looks
> > >> to be a complete PITA to change it - so the hunt is on for a
> > >> replacement.
> > >> I've heard good things about ISE washing machines, apparently designed
> > >> by repair engineers, with an emphasis on reliability, simplicity and
> > >> serviceability. Sounds good on paper, but has anyone here had any
> > >> experience of them?
> > >
> > >I have changed the drum bearings on our Zanussi (22 yrs old!) twice in
> the
> > >last 9 years and it's still going strong.
> > >
> > >Gwan.................it's not as hard as you think.
> > >Bearing from local supplier was �6
> > >
> > Have you seen what they've done with regard to modular construction in
> > the last 20 years?
> > I've fixed up a few machines over the years, but this one made me
> > baulk. Here's a link to bearing job on a similar machine:
> >
> > http://www.christran.net/washingmachine1.htm
> >
> > Regards,

That job's worse than it looks. the writer got lucky with the inner
bearing, IME the bearing had to be painstakingly ground right through
using a tiny die grinder. I also found that altho a bar is helpful,
its not enough on its own. I made one of these:
http://www.wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Bearing_puller


> It's a much simpler job with one of these
> http://www.justoffbase.co.uk/165mm-Reach-X-160mm-Spread-Triple-Leg-Reversible-Puller-43949-Draper-N133 I'd never be without mine. :-)

Have you done hotpoint bearings using one of those? I couldnt get one
anywhere that would do the job.


NT

Stephen Howard

unread,
Nov 24, 2008, 7:12:08 AM11/24/08
to
On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 03:58:42 -0800 (PST), meow...@care2.com wrote:

>Stephen Howard wrote:
>> On Sat, 22 Nov 2008 20:43:46 -0800 (PST), meow...@care2.com wrote:
>> >Stephen Howard wrote:
>> >> On Sat, 22 Nov 2008 15:43:21 -0800 (PST), meow...@care2.com wrote:
>
>> >> From what I've seen on the faq pages they seem to know a few things
>> >> about what makes a machine reliable and serviceable.
>> >
>> >A few things isnt enough. Do they know it all? It only takes one
>> >oversight, & its not hard to do. And of course there are other ways to
>> >go wrong,
>> >
>> More than most, I'd say - and certainly more than the bods at Zanussi
>> by the looks of it.
>
>Sorry but theres no way you can tell the relative skill levels of the
>designers from their site. One can see theyre aiming for a better
>machine, but the issues they list there are just a tiny fraction of
>the factors that affect reliability and longevity. What makes the
>difference in machine life is both designer skill and budget -
>skillled designers produce cut price goods as wel as top end ones.

But they're not designers - they merely spec the machines based on
practical experience of the sort of problems they're asked to fix on a
regular basis. For example, their cheapest machine has a relatively
slow spin speed...because it costs money to fit a decent bearing, and
too high a spin speed will wear a cheap bearing out quite rapidly ( as
it has done on my machine ).
Their skill lies in knowing what's realistic spec for a given price
with a view to producing a machine that's DIY serviceable.


>
>
>> >> Mind you, it looks rather academic - I showed swmbo a piccy of the
>> >> ISE5 and she said she didn't like its looks, said it had a 'sticky-out
>> >> knob' ( yeah, I know ).
>> >
>> >can always trim the knob & spindle if necessary.
>> >
>> On the wife's brand new washing machine??
>
>Its not difficult. Remove knob, trim the non-visible end, trim spindle
>and it will go back on in a more flush position.
>

Easy enough - but I bet the person who designed the machine worked out
exactly how far the knob has to stick out to make it useable ( at
least that's what I'd do ).

Stephen Howard

unread,
Nov 24, 2008, 7:14:45 AM11/24/08
to
On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 04:07:35 -0800 (PST), meow...@care2.com wrote:

>BigWallop wrote:
>> "Stephen Howard" <sees...@email.uk> wrote in message
>> news:onrji4do9ce5o5q9a...@4ax.com...
>> > On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 14:31:28 -0000, "RW" <No...@here.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > >
>> > >"Stephen Howard" <sees...@email.uk> wrote in message
>> > >news:ldsfi419dnc4h3a6g...@4ax.com...
>> > >>
>> > >> My Zanussi is on its last legs - the bearing is rumbling, and it looks
>> > >> to be a complete PITA to change it - so the hunt is on for a
>> > >> replacement.
>> > >> I've heard good things about ISE washing machines, apparently designed
>> > >> by repair engineers, with an emphasis on reliability, simplicity and
>> > >> serviceability. Sounds good on paper, but has anyone here had any
>> > >> experience of them?
>> > >
>> > >I have changed the drum bearings on our Zanussi (22 yrs old!) twice in
>> the
>> > >last 9 years and it's still going strong.
>> > >
>> > >Gwan.................it's not as hard as you think.

>> > >Bearing from local supplier was ?6


>> > >
>> > Have you seen what they've done with regard to modular construction in
>> > the last 20 years?
>> > I've fixed up a few machines over the years, but this one made me
>> > baulk. Here's a link to bearing job on a similar machine:
>> >
>> > http://www.christran.net/washingmachine1.htm
>> >
>

>That job's worse than it looks. the writer got lucky with the inner
>bearing, IME the bearing had to be painstakingly ground right through
>using a tiny die grinder. I also found that altho a bar is helpful,
>its not enough on its own. I made one of these:
>http://www.wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Bearing_puller

That's handy! Ta.

T i m

unread,
Nov 24, 2008, 6:44:46 PM11/24/08
to

Meh, I think somewhere on said UK Whitegoods forum is the tale of the
1 year old Zanussi I rescued from landfill (via Freecycle).

One drum bearing had gone and the whole machine was replaced by their
insurance company because to replace the bearing was uneconomically
viable.

That machine *had* a one piece plastic outer tub, till I got the saber
saw on it that is and it was put back together with a little help from
my friends here (re adhesives, rubber extrusions, ideas etc). ;-)

Cheers, T i m

p.s. As mentioned somewhere on this thread the plastic tub was marked
with 1100 rpm when the max speed of the machine is 1400? We only run
it at 900 rpm to stay on the safe side.

meow...@care2.com

unread,
Nov 24, 2008, 8:04:51 PM11/24/08
to
Stephen Howard wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 03:58:42 -0800 (PST), meow...@care2.com wrote:
> >Stephen Howard wrote:
> >> On Sat, 22 Nov 2008 20:43:46 -0800 (PST), meow...@care2.com wrote:
> >> >Stephen Howard wrote:
> >> >> On Sat, 22 Nov 2008 15:43:21 -0800 (PST), meow...@care2.com wrote:
> >
> >> >> From what I've seen on the faq pages they seem to know a few things
> >> >> about what makes a machine reliable and serviceable.
> >> >
> >> >A few things isnt enough. Do they know it all? It only takes one
> >> >oversight, & its not hard to do. And of course there are other ways to
> >> >go wrong,
> >> >
> >> More than most, I'd say - and certainly more than the bods at Zanussi
> >> by the looks of it.
> >
> >Sorry but theres no way you can tell the relative skill levels of the
> >designers from their site. One can see theyre aiming for a better
> >machine, but the issues they list there are just a tiny fraction of
> >the factors that affect reliability and longevity. What makes the
> >difference in machine life is both designer skill and budget -
> >skillled designers produce cut price goods as wel as top end ones.
>
> But they're not designers - they merely spec the machines based on
> practical experience of the sort of problems they're asked to fix on a
> regular basis.

They have to design the machine in order to produce a spec for the
parts - or are you saying they contract out the entire design process
from start to finish to 3rd parties - if the latter, they are
optimistic.


> For example, their cheapest machine has a relatively
> slow spin speed...because it costs money to fit a decent bearing, and
> too high a spin speed will wear a cheap bearing out quite rapidly ( as
> it has done on my machine ).

It really costs little to fit a bigger bearing. Its always more
complex than the consumer eye view.


> Their skill lies in knowing what's realistic spec for a given price
> with a view to producing a machine that's DIY serviceable.

Lets hope. So far all they've done is say it is. We'd all love to
believe it, but I think we know what sales talk counts for. The ablity
to point out a few main shortcomings that any consumer can spot on
mass market machines doesnt in itself prove anything.


> >> >> Mind you, it looks rather academic - I showed swmbo a piccy of the
> >> >> ISE5 and she said she didn't like its looks, said it had a 'sticky-out
> >> >> knob' ( yeah, I know ).
> >> >
> >> >can always trim the knob & spindle if necessary.
> >> >
> >> On the wife's brand new washing machine??
> >
> >Its not difficult. Remove knob, trim the non-visible end, trim spindle
> >and it will go back on in a more flush position.
> >
> Easy enough - but I bet the person who designed the machine worked out
> exactly how far the knob has to stick out to make it useable ( at
> least that's what I'd do ).
>
> Regards,

I would have thought it was more about aesthetics. Certainly one needs
to ensure its still workable before the trim, but I dont think thats
very challenging.

In fact there's a point that relates to their reliability claims: a
sticky out knob is going to see more and higher accidental forces,
which does not suggest thorough design for max reliability. A knob
with a shallow finger recess would be more robust due to being less
vulnerable. Sticky out bits also suffer higher failures in shipping.


NT

Stephen Howard

unread,
Nov 25, 2008, 6:07:40 AM11/25/08
to

True enough - and time will tell. The reports from buyers on the
forums look encouraging, as does the Which review.


>
>
>> >Its not difficult. Remove knob, trim the non-visible end, trim spindle
>> >and it will go back on in a more flush position.
>> >
>> Easy enough - but I bet the person who designed the machine worked out
>> exactly how far the knob has to stick out to make it useable ( at
>> least that's what I'd do ).
>>
>

>I would have thought it was more about aesthetics. Certainly one needs
>to ensure its still workable before the trim, but I dont think thats
>very challenging.
>
>In fact there's a point that relates to their reliability claims: a
>sticky out knob is going to see more and higher accidental forces,
>which does not suggest thorough design for max reliability. A knob
>with a shallow finger recess would be more robust due to being less
>vulnerable. Sticky out bits also suffer higher failures in shipping.
>

Had a look at various machines over the weekend, I was quietly chuffed
to note that pretty much all the offerings from Bosch/Miele etc. came
with sticky-out knobs.

Rod

unread,
Nov 25, 2008, 5:44:21 PM11/25/08
to
Stephen Howard wrote:
> My Zanussi is on its last legs - the bearing is rumbling, and it looks
> to be a complete PITA to change it - so the hunt is on for a
> replacement.
> I've heard good things about ISE washing machines, apparently designed
> by repair engineers, with an emphasis on reliability, simplicity and
> serviceability. Sounds good on paper, but has anyone here had any
> experience of them?
>
> Regards,
>
>
So folks, do we want washing machines to last 30 years? Of course it
seems an appealing idea, but...

Say that ended up making the purchase price 1000 pounds. (And let us
ignore inflation and interest and boring things like that.)

After 10 years, it might look a bit tatty, but should have 666 pounds of
life left in it.

After 20 years, it will almost certainly look tatty, but should have 333
pounds of life left in it.

Whatever model you buy, you are pretty much stuck with it for a very
long time. Whether they bring out massively improved spin speeds,
reduced hot water usage, low temperature programs or anything else, you
will not be in a position to catch up. (So you had better go for the top
of the range when you buy, just in case...)

Whatever might go wrong in the first 25 years, you are pretty much
forced to pay out for a repair because replacement wouldn't be a viable
option. You are therefore reliant on parts availability - which is
difficult to ensure over very long periods.

Whatever tattiness it exhibits, you have to put up with (or put a lot of
effort into tarting up).

Whatever maintenance such as cleaning filters, soap drawers, and such
like, you are forced to perform. (There is no way you will dodge it for
30 years. Unfortuantely.)

Perhaps there is some optimum that might not be so very far from current
w/m lives (at least, for the better ones).

By the way, many years ago, life for a w/m averaged something like 8-10
years and the most common coffin nail was rust. Anyone happen to know
corresponding life and terminal condition for today's w/ms?

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
<www.thyromind.info> <www.thyroiduk.org> <www.altsupportthyroid.org>

BigWallop

unread,
Nov 25, 2008, 6:06:40 PM11/25/08
to

"Rod" <poly...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:6p3de7F...@mid.individual.net...

> Stephen Howard wrote:
> > My Zanussi is on its last legs - the bearing is rumbling, and it looks
> > to be a complete PITA to change it - so the hunt is on for a
> > replacement.
> > I've heard good things about ISE washing machines, apparently designed
> > by repair engineers, with an emphasis on reliability, simplicity and
> > serviceability. Sounds good on paper, but has anyone here had any
> > experience of them?
> >
> > Regards,
> >

But. If the machine was built to last 30 years, it wouldn't look tatty at
any time through its proposed life span. It should be built to last 30
years, not built to the same standard as they are now and might last thirty
years. The quality of the machine would have to be high enough to make the
body of the machine last the length of time expected.

You might get bored looking at the same machine for 30 years, but a few
magnets would cure that. :-)

)sorry about replying at the top of the post, but it takes to long to scroll
down(

meow...@care2.com

unread,
Nov 25, 2008, 9:56:20 PM11/25/08
to


A stainless steel front wold address this. And cost more.


NT

Appin

unread,
Nov 25, 2008, 11:23:03 AM11/25/08
to
The message <ffemi4hntvu7ab55f...@4ax.com>
from T i m <ne...@spaced.me.uk> contains these words:


> p.s. As mentioned somewhere on this thread the plastic tub was marked
> with 1100 rpm when the max speed of the machine is 1400? We only run
> it at 900 rpm to stay on the safe side.

Whatever the machine claims to do, it's wise never to run the machine at
the highest speed available.

With nine kids we've only had three washing machines in over thirty years.

No. 1: Hoover. Cheap model. One repair (bearings). By the time it
died again, it really was done. Put into store for potential spares.

No. 2: Old model Zanussi. Cold water solenoid eventually failed. DIY
repair using hot water solenoid from old Hoover. Bearings failed.
Bought machine No. 3 but replaced bearings (DIY with some difficulty) so
machine is working and spare.

No. 3: Miele. No repairs yet.

Not bad for machines which are on virtually all day.

Appin

unread,
Nov 26, 2008, 10:46:16 AM11/26/08
to
The message <6p3de7F...@mid.individual.net>
from Rod <poly...@ntlworld.com> contains these words:


> Whatever tattiness it exhibits, you have to put up with (or put a lot of
> effort into tarting up).

> Whatever maintenance such as cleaning filters, soap drawers, and such
> like, you are forced to perform. (There is no way you will dodge it for
> 30 years. Unfortuantely.)

> Perhaps there is some optimum that might not be so very far from current
> w/m lives (at least, for the better ones).

> By the way, many years ago, life for a w/m averaged something like 8-10
> years and the most common coffin nail was rust. Anyone happen to know
> corresponding life and terminal condition for today's w/ms?


Historically, American machines averaged around 20 years. However since
they're generally kept in the basement which in most instances will have
bare concrete/concrete block/stone walls, the appeareance isn't
generally an issue.

How poorly they washed is another issue entirely, of course. And the
undies and the dishtowels tend to be washed together in cold or warm
water :-(. No wonder they have to add bleach :-)

The current generation of American machines are a lot less solidly built
and durability seems to be dropping rapidly.

Theo Markettos

unread,
Nov 26, 2008, 3:16:44 PM11/26/08
to
Ed Sirett <e...@makewrite.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> ISTM that the initial cost of most white goods have come down a long long
> way over the last 25 years.

Bottom-of-the-range cooker, 1984: 200 pounds (Which magazine)
Bottom-of-the-range cooker, 2004: 200 pounds (Argos catalogue)

Features were roughly similar.

Theo

Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted

Steve Firth

unread,
Nov 27, 2008, 6:13:16 AM11/27/08
to
Huge <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:

> 200 pounds in 1984 is worth roughly 464 pounds today, so the cooker has more
> than halved in price.

The figures given above aren't that accurate either. The New World Gas
Cooker is the cheapest offering in the Argos catalogue at £150. It's
exactly the same specification at the New World Gas Cooker fitted in
most rented houses back in 1974. Again it cost around £200 in the early
80s.

Rod

unread,
Nov 27, 2008, 6:19:50 AM11/27/08
to

And by the time you have paid for a Corgi-registered person (of suitable
type) to disconnect old cooker and fit new one (and the additional work
they find needs doing), it will probably cost at least 464 pounds now... :-)

Appin

unread,
Nov 27, 2008, 8:41:23 AM11/27/08
to
The message <ggluc7$2tu$4...@anubis.demon.co.uk>
from Huge <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> contains these words:

> On 2008-11-25, Appin <ap...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:

> > With nine kids we've only had three washing machines

> Nine kids? I think you'd have been better off buying a TV. :o)


What -- and miss out on all the fun ? :-)

Martin Bonner

unread,
Nov 27, 2008, 10:23:41 AM11/27/08
to
On Nov 27, 11:19 am, Rod <polygo...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> And by the time you have paid for a Corgi-registered person (of suitable
> type) to disconnect old cooker and fit new one (and the additional work
> they find needs doing), it will probably cost at least 464 pounds now... :-)

You don't need a Corgi-registered person to unplug a bayonet fitting,
and plug in a new one - that's the one piece of gas work that I /do/
regard myself as competent on.

Alang

unread,
Nov 27, 2008, 11:23:54 AM11/27/08
to
On 26 Nov 2008 20:16:44 +0000 (GMT), Theo Markettos
<theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

In 1984 you could buy a bottom range electric cooker for a hundred
quid less a penny in Comet. Cheapest in Currys today £149.99

Rod

unread,
Nov 27, 2008, 11:42:11 AM11/27/08
to

It was followed by a smiley. :-)

I think that a new (or even secondhand) cooker should be installed by a
competent person. That is, it is not expected that users will be
competent (though some may well be, and more likely here than most places).

There are issues of complying with ventilation requirements, checking
that the cooker works OK, and so on which are non-trivial.

Undoing and re-doing a bayonet for cleaning purposes is not the same as
installing afresh.

If anyone thinks I am wrong, do let me know. It has been known.

Alang

unread,
Nov 27, 2008, 1:50:29 PM11/27/08
to


In the 50s my mother used to take a big spanner and uncouple the gas
pipe from the cooker so she ould drag it out to clean behind it. After
cleaning she would ease the cooker back into position and tighten up
the gland nut. Used to do that a couple of times a year. She didn't
like corgis either.

Alang

unread,
Nov 27, 2008, 1:52:51 PM11/27/08
to
On Thu, 27 Nov 2008 16:42:11 +0000, Rod <poly...@ntlworld.com>
wrote:

>Martin Bonner wrote:
>> On Nov 27, 11:19 am, Rod <polygo...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>> And by the time you have paid for a Corgi-registered person (of suitable
>>> type) to disconnect old cooker and fit new one (and the additional work
>>> they find needs doing), it will probably cost at least 464 pounds now... :-)
>>
>> You don't need a Corgi-registered person to unplug a bayonet fitting,
>> and plug in a new one - that's the one piece of gas work that I /do/
>> regard myself as competent on.
>
>It was followed by a smiley. :-)
>
>I think that a new (or even secondhand) cooker should be installed by a
>competent person. That is, it is not expected that users will be
>competent (though some may well be, and more likely here than most places).
>
>There are issues of complying with ventilation requirements, checking
>that the cooker works OK, and so on which are non-trivial.
>
>Undoing and re-doing a bayonet for cleaning purposes is not the same as
>installing afresh.
>
>If anyone thinks I am wrong, do let me know. It has been known.

Yes you're wrong. We managed quite well for a hundred years or so
connecting our own gas appliances

Rod

unread,
Nov 27, 2008, 2:27:17 PM11/27/08
to

But a hundred years backwards is not really very relevant for now and
forwards. Whatever you or I think about the rules/laws, I remain
convinced that competence is required by them for installing a new
cooker. (With the usual big question over how that competence is defined.)

Alang

unread,
Nov 27, 2008, 2:46:34 PM11/27/08
to
On Thu, 27 Nov 2008 19:27:17 +0000, Rod <poly...@ntlworld.com>
wrote:

>Alang wrote:
>> On Thu, 27 Nov 2008 16:42:11 +0000, Rod <poly...@ntlworld.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Martin Bonner wrote:
>>>> On Nov 27, 11:19 am, Rod <polygo...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>>>> And by the time you have paid for a Corgi-registered person (of suitable
>>>>> type) to disconnect old cooker and fit new one (and the additional work
>>>>> they find needs doing), it will probably cost at least 464 pounds now... :-)
>>>> You don't need a Corgi-registered person to unplug a bayonet fitting,
>>>> and plug in a new one - that's the one piece of gas work that I /do/
>>>> regard myself as competent on.
>>> It was followed by a smiley. :-)
>>>
>>> I think that a new (or even secondhand) cooker should be installed by a
>>> competent person. That is, it is not expected that users will be
>>> competent (though some may well be, and more likely here than most places).
>>>
>>> There are issues of complying with ventilation requirements, checking
>>> that the cooker works OK, and so on which are non-trivial.
>>>
>>> Undoing and re-doing a bayonet for cleaning purposes is not the same as
>>> installing afresh.
>>>
>>> If anyone thinks I am wrong, do let me know. It has been known.
>>
>> Yes you're wrong. We managed quite well for a hundred years or so
>> connecting our own gas appliances
>
>But a hundred years backwards is not really very relevant for now and
>forwards.

If it worked for a hundred years or more there is no reason to change
it.

>Whatever you or I think about the rules/laws, I remain
>convinced that competence is required by them for installing a new
>cooker. (With the usual big question over how that competence is defined.)

Some people cannot tie their own shoelaces. Most people can.

Bob Mannix

unread,
Nov 28, 2008, 3:31:21 AM11/28/08
to
"Alang" <inv...@invalid.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bvtti4lsq84cf07vd...@4ax.com...

You are (as always with this argument) both right. The fact that we have
done it perfectly well for a hundred years may be very relevant to safety
but has nothing whatsoever to do with the law and is completely irrelevant
to Rod's point. Any work on gas appliances is required to be done by a
"competent" person (who may or may not actually be competent). An easy way
to ensure "competence" in the eyes of the law is to be CORGI registered.
Proving "competency" otherwise is tricky. The likelihoood of having to prove
"competence" is very low however, if you are actually competent IYSWIM.


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)


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