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UPVC windows into existing timber frames?
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Peter
Jul 21, 2016, 8:12:11 AM7/21/16
to
Just had a quote from Shaw's Brighton for three upvc windows to replace ailing timber sash windows in my terrace house. About £550 each for whole window, about £450 for fitting two opening sashes into each of the existing boxes and cladding sill and exterior timber.
Thinking that it would be nice to retain timber sill / architrave etc. inside rooms. Good plan or not? First thought was it sounded like a bodge but not sure.
Was never a fan of upvc but with increasing age less a fan of the work needed to bring the existing timber sashes up to scratch; some rot, two sashes need replacing, two of the windows were badly replaced about 15 years ago. Being at the rear they don't really get seen. Also I am on a hill near the channel coast facing West.
Thinking that it would be nice to retain timber sill / architrave etc. inside rooms. Good plan or not? First thought was it sounded like a bodge but not sure.
Was never a fan of upvc but with increasing age less a fan of the work needed to bring the existing timber sashes up to scratch; some rot, two sashes need replacing, two of the windows were badly replaced about 15 years ago. Being at the rear they don't really get seen. Also I am on a hill near the channel coast facing West.
Dan S. MacAbre
Jul 21, 2016, 8:15:27 AM7/21/16
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traditional frames are thinner, I think.
Tim Watts
Jul 21, 2016, 10:09:31 AM7/21/16
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between 2 panes of glass, held apart with tiny balls.
It's made by one of the major manufacturers - poss Pilkinton
Dan S. MacAbre
Jul 21, 2016, 10:58:13 AM7/21/16
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there seems to be loads of stuff out there. It might generally be
called heritage double glazing, or that could just be a brand.
Weatherlawyer
Jul 21, 2016, 11:09:54 AM7/21/16
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So why bother. Have them replaced but get better quotes.
If the frames are good replace them yourself go to a glazier with the sizes and get him to make you stepped or rebated double glazed units with the pattern you take him.
Should be something like 100 quid per sash on average. (Blind guess as I've not seen them.) The worst that can happen is that you will fall on you arse first time and lose whatever you paid. having learned to get it done by a pro you will always know that you did have a go at diy.
You won't fail if you get a competent friend that is reliable to help.
Peter
Jul 21, 2016, 1:46:33 PM7/21/16
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Sorry was not clear enough - the "into existing" quote is for new double glazed casement sashes in their own frame - the existing sliding timber sahes would come out and the 'nib' at the front of the box sawn off flush - box including sill, header and internal bits staying.
The frames are mostly sound - the choice, if I go upvc at all, is between complete replacement and letting the new units into the existing frame which would have the advantage of keeping timber internal sill etc but I am not sure of other pros and cons not having seen this done.
The frames are mostly sound - the choice, if I go upvc at all, is between complete replacement and letting the new units into the existing frame which would have the advantage of keeping timber internal sill etc but I am not sure of other pros and cons not having seen this done.
harry
Jul 21, 2016, 2:12:44 PM7/21/16
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On Thursday, 21 July 2016 13:12:11 UTC+1, Peter wrote:
You lose one of the the main benefits, ie maintenance free.
You can get sealed double glazed unit to fit existing.
Two sheets of glass, one slightly larger then the other.
The small glass fits inside the rebate, the large one fits the rebate. You don't see them much now but your local gazier will fix you up. (Stepped units)
http://robuild.co.uk/roofers_carpenters/index.php/tag/fitting-double-glazing-units-to-existing-wooden-frames/
You lose the benefit of the draught proofing of uPVC windows
Dan S. MacAbre
Jul 21, 2016, 2:22:46 PM7/21/16
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had fitted, but always been disappointed. And I've never bought cheap
stuff. I console myself with the thought that ventilation is a good
thing :-)
charles
Jul 21, 2016, 2:27:06 PM7/21/16
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In article <c7a07399-abe2-4828...@googlegroups.com>, harry
because of the character of our house (1911) we had new wooden frames and
windows fitted. Frames had done about 90 years. On the non-exposed side
of the house the frames were fine and the same company fitted new sashes.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
windows fitted. Frames had done about 90 years. On the non-exposed side
of the house the frames were fine and the same company fitted new sashes.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
Dan S. MacAbre
Jul 21, 2016, 2:46:44 PM7/21/16
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Tim Streater wrote:
> In article <nmr3tk$8b7$2...@dont-email.me>, Dan S. MacAbre <n...@way.com>
> wrote:
>
I did the first time. Thereafter, I just thought it's par for the course.
> In article <nmr3tk$8b7$2...@dont-email.me>, Dan S. MacAbre <n...@way.com>
> wrote:
>
>> harry wrote:
>
>>> You lose the benefit of the draught proofing of uPVC windows
>
>> I've always expected good draught-proofing from the uPVC windows I've
>> had fitted, but always been disappointed. And I've never bought cheap
>> stuff. I console myself with the thought that ventilation is a good
>> thing :-)
>
> Then it's not been fitted properly and you should complain.
>> harry wrote:
>
>>> You lose the benefit of the draught proofing of uPVC windows
>
>> I've always expected good draught-proofing from the uPVC windows I've
>> had fitted, but always been disappointed. And I've never bought cheap
>> stuff. I console myself with the thought that ventilation is a good
>> thing :-)
>
>
I did the first time. Thereafter, I just thought it's par for the course.
Weatherlawyer
Jul 21, 2016, 4:07:01 PM7/21/16
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On Thursday, 21 July 2016 18:46:33 UTC+1, Peter wrote:
> Sorry was not clear enough - the "into existing" quote is for new double glazed casement sashes in their own frame - the existing sliding timber sahes would come out and the 'nib' at the front of the box sawn off flush - box including sill, header and internal bits staying.
>
> The frames are mostly sound - the choice, if I go upvc at all, is between complete replacement and letting the new units into the existing frame which would have the advantage of keeping timber internal sill etc but I am not sure of other pros and cons not having seen this done.
Draught proofing is a matter of the wood or pvc closing tight, or, failing that having furry felt strips to close against you can make any window draught proof with Vaseline and clear silicone mastic.Give one side of the meeting surfaces a polish with wax and a swirl of detergent mould release and close it against the other side after applying a thick layer of silicone to that half.
> Sorry was not clear enough - the "into existing" quote is for new double glazed casement sashes in their own frame - the existing sliding timber sahes would come out and the 'nib' at the front of the box sawn off flush - box including sill, header and internal bits staying.
>
> The frames are mostly sound - the choice, if I go upvc at all, is between complete replacement and letting the new units into the existing frame which would have the advantage of keeping timber internal sill etc but I am not sure of other pros and cons not having seen this done.
Clear is better in my opinion. Don't let it come into contact with the glass or you will never get it off experiment with letting some dry on a bottle of jam jar. It reacts with glass.
Get a ladder to inspect all the frames and scrape off the old mastic where is is sealed to the walls clean thoroughly and apply suitable silicon to the edges do it on a dry day.
Weatherlawyer
Jul 21, 2016, 4:15:09 PM7/21/16
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On Thursday, 21 July 2016 13:12:11 UTC+1, Peter wrote:
Sometimes the seal is made of a bead of mortar sometimes just a run of mastic or silicone. Again the price is pennies for fiddling with it. Can we have a pook at any photos you have?
If they are soft and porous ot rotten you need them patched or replaced. You are still talking pennies here; maybe shillings for ladder hire and a friend to catch you if you fall,
jim
Jul 21, 2016, 4:34:42 PM7/21/16
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Weatherlawyer <Weathe...@gmail.com> Wrote in message:
--
Jim K
----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/
> On Thursday, 21 July 2016 13:12:11 UTC+1, Peter wrote:
>> Just had a quote from Shaw's Brighton for three upvc windows to replace ailing timber sash windows in my terrace house. About £550 each for whole window, about £450 for fitting two opening sashes into each of the existing boxes and cladding sill and exterior timber.
>>
>> Thinking that it would be nice to retain timber sill / architrave etc. inside rooms. Good plan or not? First thought was it sounded like a bodge but not sure.
>>
>> Was never a fan of upvc but with increasing age less a fan of the work needed to bring the existing timber sashes up to scratch; some rot, two sashes need replacing, two of the windows were badly replaced about 15 years ago. Being at the rear they don't really get seen. Also I am on a hill near the channel coast facing West.
>
> They are going to clad the bits you want to keep?
> So why bother. Have them replaced but get better quotes.
> If the frames are good replace them yourself go to a glazier with the sizes and get him to make you stepped or rebated double glazed units with the pattern you take him.
Why stepped or rebated units?
>> Just had a quote from Shaw's Brighton for three upvc windows to replace ailing timber sash windows in my terrace house. About £550 each for whole window, about £450 for fitting two opening sashes into each of the existing boxes and cladding sill and exterior timber.
>>
>> Thinking that it would be nice to retain timber sill / architrave etc. inside rooms. Good plan or not? First thought was it sounded like a bodge but not sure.
>>
>> Was never a fan of upvc but with increasing age less a fan of the work needed to bring the existing timber sashes up to scratch; some rot, two sashes need replacing, two of the windows were badly replaced about 15 years ago. Being at the rear they don't really get seen. Also I am on a hill near the channel coast facing West.
>
> They are going to clad the bits you want to keep?
> So why bother. Have them replaced but get better quotes.
> If the frames are good replace them yourself go to a glazier with the sizes and get him to make you stepped or rebated double glazed units with the pattern you take him.
--
Jim K
----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/
Capitol
Jul 21, 2016, 4:48:03 PM7/21/16
to
Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
>
> I've always expected good draught-proofing from the uPVC windows I've
> had fitted, but always been disappointed. And I've never bought cheap
> stuff. I console myself with the thought that ventilation is a good
> thing :-)
My economy PVC windows still have perfect draught proofing
>
> I've always expected good draught-proofing from the uPVC windows I've
> had fitted, but always been disappointed. And I've never bought cheap
> stuff. I console myself with the thought that ventilation is a good
> thing :-)
after 35 years. The aluminium patio doors are not as good.
jim
Jul 21, 2016, 5:01:53 PM7/21/16
to
jim <k> Wrote in message:
Found it further on. :-)
Dan S. MacAbre
Jul 21, 2016, 5:37:00 PM7/21/16
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Tim Streater wrote:
> In article <nmr5ai$epd$1...@dont-email.me>, Dan S. MacAbre <n...@way.com>
> No it aint. Mind you, we avoided trickle vents too, that may have
> something to do with it.
>
> Yours leaking between the frame and the wall or around the openers?
Between the opening unit in its surround, and the rest of the frame. I
don't care about draughts much, since I don't feel the cold at all (in
fact, I like it), but I'm such a light sleeper that I find it lets too
much sound in. Especially the dawn chorus at around 4 in the morning.
> SWMBO's cousin had new uPVC doors put in at the back. I noticed that
> with the doors shut, air was leaking around them (she hadn't noticed).
> I pointed this out and the fitter came back and adjusted them. Properly
> adjusted, when you crank the window/door handles shut, it pulls them in
> and seals all around.
>
> In article <nmr5ai$epd$1...@dont-email.me>, Dan S. MacAbre <n...@way.com>
> something to do with it.
>
> Yours leaking between the frame and the wall or around the openers?
Between the opening unit in its surround, and the rest of the frame. I
don't care about draughts much, since I don't feel the cold at all (in
fact, I like it), but I'm such a light sleeper that I find it lets too
much sound in. Especially the dawn chorus at around 4 in the morning.
> SWMBO's cousin had new uPVC doors put in at the back. I noticed that
> with the doors shut, air was leaking around them (she hadn't noticed).
> I pointed this out and the fitter came back and adjusted them. Properly
> adjusted, when you crank the window/door handles shut, it pulls them in
> and seals all around.
>
tim...
Jul 22, 2016, 3:29:22 AM7/22/16
to
"Tim Streater" <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote in message
news:210720161326142194%timst...@greenbee.net...
> In article <d6bb8461-a926-4316...@googlegroups.com>,
> Peter <peterm...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>>Just had a quote from Shaw's Brighton for three upvc windows to replace
>>ailing
>>timber sash windows in my terrace house. About £550 each for whole window,
>>about £450 for fitting two opening sashes into each of the existing boxes
>>and
>>cladding sill and exterior timber.
>>
>>Thinking that it would be nice to retain timber sill / architrave etc.
>>inside
>>rooms. Good plan or not? First thought was it sounded like a bodge but not
>>sure.
>
> Timber sill etc will be retained even if you have all new uPVC - the
>
>>Just had a quote from Shaw's Brighton for three upvc windows to replace
>>ailing
>>timber sash windows in my terrace house. About £550 each for whole window,
>>about £450 for fitting two opening sashes into each of the existing boxes
>>and
>>cladding sill and exterior timber.
>>
>>Thinking that it would be nice to retain timber sill / architrave etc.
>>inside
>>rooms. Good plan or not? First thought was it sounded like a bodge but not
>>sure.
>
> new frame butts up against the existing wood from the outside. That's
> how it worked here, at any rate.
I got mine to install a new wooden sill, the quote for a replacement plastic
one was ridiculous 30 pounds per linear foot (or something equally stupid)
tim
harry
Jul 22, 2016, 3:24:20 PM7/22/16
to
I thought this was a DIY group?
Sill costs next to nothing.
tim...
Jul 23, 2016, 5:40:46 AM7/23/16
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"harry" <harry...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:f9dd9819-3ee4-4d0f...@googlegroups.com...
the problem with diy DG window installation is that off the shelf ones only
come in a small number of fixed sizes which may not suit the size of opening
that you have to fill.
And if you have to go to a bespoke manufacturer to get them made, the
additional costs of full installation is a tiny part of the overall cost
tim
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