Boiler flue through roof - how to cut tile?
Luke
What's the best way of penetrating the roof in order to install a
boiler flue? My roof is standard pitched roof with concrete (I think)
tiles.
The boiler is a Vaillant Ecotec Plus using a standard flue. I have got
one of those flexible flanges to wrap around the tiles and form a
seal.
I'm hiring a roof ladder for tomorrow with a view to *somehow* making
a hole in a nominated roof tile and then sliding the new flue down
from above, according to the instructions that came with the flue.
What is unclear is a suggested means of cutting said hole. Some sort
of grinder? Large hole cutter? Stitch-drill?
Thanks in advance.
Luke
Vortex7
I would go to a reclamation place and pick up an identical tile and do
some experiments. Clay ones are very easy to drill/saw so long as you
are careful...dunno about concrete.
Ronald Raygun
How about *not* drilling it? Take a tile out and make a new one which
has the hole already in it. If as you say it's concrete, you can mix
up the cement for it yourself. You can use the old tile as a template
to make a mould out of cardboard or something, lined with tin foil or
clingfilm or wax paper. Also put an "island" in the middle of the
mould where the hole is going to be. This is probably best made out
of plasticene or play dough. If the flue is going through at an angle,
the hole will need to be elliptical and by using flexible material for
the plug, you can slope its sides the right way.
stuart noble
Your emphasis on the "*somehow*" suggests it might be a g-s-i (get
someone in) job :-) Probably an hour's work for a roofer and his mate. I
wouldn't fancy it, and certainly not without an extra pair of hands.
Phil
Chain drill with 6mm masonry bit not on 'hammer'.
Or diamond core drill - again not on hammer!
There are outfits that do diamond core drilling that would no doubt do
it reasonably cheaply if you took the tile to them.
Phil.
Jim
> I'm hiring a roof ladder for tomorrow with a view to *somehow* making
> a hole in a nominated roof tile and then sliding the new flue down
> from above, according to the instructions that came with the flue.
>
> What is unclear is a suggested means of cutting said hole. Some sort
> of grinder? Large hole cutter? Stitch-drill?
Your problem will be flashing around the hole in a fashion which doesn't
lead to a leak developing in the future.
I think your best option would be to remove a tile (or a couple of them),
and put in something like this:
Then replace the tiles on top.
This would require a collar around the chimney that is supplied from the
boiler manufacturer to fit outside the flashing piece. You may want to
check that this means the flue terminal is far enough away from the roof
when this is done - AIUI there are building regulations for it and it would
be affected by the angle of your roof pitch.
The Natural Philosopher
And you nee some quite delicate leadwork to seal all the layers when you
punch through.
A simple collar make not be adequate.
This is a not trivial problem.
The Natural Philosopher
> On 02/09/10 12:09, Luke wrote:
>> I'm hiring a roof ladder for tomorrow with a view to *somehow* making
>> a hole in a nominated roof tile and then sliding the new flue down
>> from above, according to the instructions that came with the flue.
>>
>> What is unclear is a suggested means of cutting said hole. Some sort
>> of grinder? Large hole cutter? Stitch-drill?
>
> Your problem will be flashing around the hole in a fashion which doesn't
> lead to a leak developing in the future.
>
> I think your best option would be to remove a tile (or a couple of
> them), and put in something like this:
>
> http://www.jjroofingsupplies.co.uk/shop/Lead-Products-Lead-Alternatives/Pitched-lead-Slate/prod_5584.html
>
>
> Then replace the tiles on top.
No. that way water will slide down thee lead and under the tiles.
As I said, its not trivial to achieve this. Look at the way a chimney
stack is flashed in with separate soakers under each tile.
You need lead _under_ the higher tiles and _over_ the lower ones.
This is a pretty good diagram of how to use a product like that.
http://www.flueandchimney.co.uk/flueandchimney/ProductSubCats.asp?CatID=13&SubCatID=35
That part suits a single overlapped tile setup: but it will be tough if
its a double overlap. It is possible as the site I linked to shows, but
there are things to be done. Note the anti capillary stuff etc etc.
Jim
> Jim wrote:
>> Your problem will be flashing around the hole in a fashion which
>> doesn't lead to a leak developing in the future.
>>
>> I think your best option would be to remove a tile (or a couple of
>> them), and put in something like this:
>>
>> http://www.jjroofingsupplies.co.uk/shop/Lead-Products-Lead-Alternatives/Pitched-lead-Slate/prod_5584.html
>>
>>
>> Then replace the tiles on top.
>
> No. that way water will slide down thee lead and under the tiles.
>
> As I said, its not trivial to achieve this. Look at the way a chimney
> stack is flashed in with separate soakers under each tile.
>
> You need lead _under_ the higher tiles and _over_ the lower ones.
Perhaps I should have said "a few" rather than "a couple". In any case, I
agree, that is exactly what I meant.
Phil
Thinking laterally (!) - go out through the wall, 90 deg bend, and up
up up.... saves penetrating the roof.
Phil.
The Natural Philosopher
flues never should have 90 degree single bends.
> Phil.
Jim
> Phil wrote:
>> On 2 Sep, 12:09, Luke <winged...@fsmail.net> wrote:
>>> The boiler is a Vaillant Ecotec Plus using a standard flue. I have got
>>> one of those flexible flanges to wrap around the tiles and form a
>>> seal.
>> up up.... saves penetrating the roof.
>>
>
> flues never should have 90 degree single bends.
It's a balanced flue for a condensing boiler, though - in fact there are
many options as described in this PDF:
http://www.vaillant.co.uk/stepone2/data/downloads/1c/43/00/834449_13.pdf
Rick Hughes
"Luke" <wing...@fsmail.net> wrote in message
news:46612aab-3dd2-4ad4...@i31g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
> Hi all,
> What's the best way of penetrating the roof in order to install a
> boiler flue? My roof is standard pitched roof with concrete (I think)
> tiles.
>
> The boiler is a Vaillant Ecotec Plus using a standard flue. I have got
> one of those flexible flanges to wrap around the tiles and form a
you don't
use a lead collar instead of tile, or a purpose made tile with collar
Dave Liquorice
> I'm hiring a roof ladder for tomorrow with a view to *somehow* making
> a hole in a nominated roof tile and then sliding the new flue down
> from above, according to the instructions that came with the flue.
Unless it's a pretty small dia flue and the position is exactly right
it won't penetrate the roof through a single tile. See other posts
about the grommet/flashing required and how that installs.
There are BR's about the required clearance from the vent and the
pitch/apex of the roof. They are many combinations but on a simple
pitched roof the bottom of the terminal must be more than 1.5m
horizontally from the roof or over 600mm above the apex. I suggest
you go off to check those figures as my memory might be faulty.
--
Cheers
Dave.
Phil L
Don't even attempt to try and make one yourself.
Ask in a local builders or roofing merchant and they will point you in the
direction of someone who makes them for you - it's just a normal roof tile
which has a hole cut out and a collar set into it with epoxy, last time i
got one they were about £8.
You'll need to find out which tile it is first though - different profiles
etc.
The tile goes on, then the flue is pushed through, then the rubber flange
goes over the top to seal.
PS, I wouldn't bother hiring the cat ladder until you've ordered the tile -
it may take a few days
--
Phil L
RSRL Tipster Of The Year 2008
brass monkey
"Luke" <wing...@fsmail.net> wrote in message
news:46612aab-3dd2-4ad4...@i31g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
The chaps who fitted my boiler simply removed a tile, showed it the angle
grinder (square cut-out) then replaced it and added the lead 'skirt' or
whatever it is.
Maybe they were lucky in that it only spanned one tile.
dennis@home
"brass monkey" <a...@b.com> wrote in message
news:4c803527$0$14512$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
> The chaps who fitted my boiler simply removed a tile, showed it the angle
> grinder (square cut-out) then replaced it and added the lead 'skirt' or
> whatever it is.
> Maybe they were lucky in that it only spanned one tile.
They probably adjusted it to fit, two bends and a bit of pipe.
It adds about £100 to the cost depending on the type of flu (sniffle).
Luke
Hi everyone and thank you all for your comments and advice. I must
admit I had a sleepless night last night worrying about all the
various problems and impossibilities I might encounter. Anyway it was
fine. I ended up:
1. Hiring a roof ladder and transporting it back home 4 miles on a
pushbike (not recommended)
2. Rigging it up to the roof. Hardest part was hoisting the roof
ladder up into position. Not nice up a ladder.
3. Ascending the roof ladder and removing the required tile. Not
difficult at all.
4. Cutting out a square hole in the tile using an angle grinder. Got
through 4 cheap grinder discs.
5. Putting the tile back in place. Offering up the lead flange.
6. Wrapping the lead flange under the tiles above, below the tiles
below, and underneath one of the tiles to the side (basically
following the existing tile pattern)
7. Dressing it down with a rubber mallet.
8. Inserting the flue from the top. Securing it from the loft space
using bracket.
9. Removing ladders etc from roof.
10. JOB DONE!
The comment about building regs worried me a bit but I have found this
only applies to class 1 flues. Class 1 is where the expulsion of the
flue gasses is faciliated by the "draw" of the chimney hence the need
for clearance above roof height. As this is a fan assisted boiler flue
then these rules do not apply. Certainly there was nothing in the
boiler doco that suggested any distance limits when installing on a
pitched roof.
Anyway here is an FB (public) link to the end result, see
http://tinyurl.com/37fkm2h
Luke
Ronald Raygun
> Hi everyone and thank you all for your comments and advice. I must
> admit I had a sleepless night last night worrying about all the
> various problems and impossibilities I might encounter. Anyway it was
> fine. I ended up:
Congrats.
> 3. Ascending the roof ladder and removing the required tile. Not
> difficult at all.
I'm interested in why this wasn't difficult. Weren't the tiles nailed down?
Dave Liquorice
>> 3. Ascending the roof ladder and removing the required tile. Not
>> difficult at all.
>
> I'm interested in why this wasn't difficult. Weren't the tiles nailed
> down?
It's very common not to have every tile nailed, particulary with
those interlocking concrete things, maybe every third one is nailed.
Now if the place was in an exposed location subject to the full force
of incoming gales or storms they would all be nailed.
--
Cheers
Dave.
Andy Burns
> It's very common not to have every tile nailed, particulary with
> those interlocking concrete things
I was quit surprised watching a roofer doing a little job on the side on
a neighbour's house, he propped his ladder up the side of the house,
jumped onto the roof then quickly slid up a tile to make a hole for a
foothold, and proceeded diagonally across the roof, sliding up every 3rd
or 4th tile as he went, occasionally he hit one that was nailed so moved
to the next one and carried on going ...
You could tell he was very comfortable working on a roof, whereas I move
at the speed of a sloth when I'm up there, with three limbs in contact
with the ladder(s) at any one time.
brass monkey
"Ronald Raygun" <no....@localhost.localdomain> wrote in message
news:MTmgo.9150$Hv6....@newsfe04.ams2...
When they are, they just use one of these -
http://www.tooled-up.com/Product.asp?PID=3689
fred
<ffb8866d-578a-4f25...@u13g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>,
Luke <wing...@fsmail.net> writes
>
>The comment about building regs worried me a bit but I have found this
>only applies to class 1 flues. Class 1 is where the expulsion of the
>flue gasses is faciliated by the "draw" of the chimney hence the need
>for clearance above roof height. As this is a fan assisted boiler flue
>then these rules do not apply. Certainly there was nothing in the
>boiler doco that suggested any distance limits when installing on a
>pitched roof.
>
>Anyway here is an FB (public) link to the end result, see
>http://tinyurl.com/37fkm2h
>
Don't worry on the building regs, even if there was a requirement it's v
unlikely that anyone would notice or care. Although for more noticeable
and notifiable jobs I have done the obvious work on a Sunday when it's
quiet and council bods[1] are at home with their feet up.
[1] Unless a BCO lives in your street, in which case do it in the week.
--
fred
FIVE TV's superbright logo - not the DOG's, it's bollocks
Phil L
It's common practice to nail every fourth row, IE lay three full rows, nail
the next row, but even then they only usually get one nail per tile - its
not imperative with interlocking concrete roof tiles - they're only nailed
every 4th row so that the wind cannot 'strip' the entire roof in the event
of a storm
Luke
I was worried that the tile I wanted to remove would be nailed.
However once I had removed the tile I learned that there weren't any
nail holes in the tiles at all! To remove the tile I pushed up three
tiles above the one I wanted to remove, to make a gap. This needed a
bit of persuasion with a hammer which I braced against the tile using
a piece of waste wood. Then I could simply lift the tile clear. It was
quite awkward to "shuffle" the tiles back down again afterwards - as
you can imagine there is quite a lot of friction to overcome, and you
can't easily get a decent grip on the tile.
Luke