Can you push a spiral drain unblocker up a downpipe from below?

[MM]

I think a gutter downpipe on my house is blocked. When only a small
amount of water is fed into the gutter (garden hose on a ~very~ long
pole), water spews out of the elbow just beneath the gutter and hardly
any comes down the pipe at the bottom.

So I reckon moss or maybe a dead bird has lodged in the downpipe,
probably in the elbow itself, or just below.

I don't have a long ladder. So I wonder whether I could push a spiral
drain unblocker, the sort with the handle to turn, UP the downpipe
from below. The distance from the ground to the underside of the
gutter is 4m.

Or would the spiral wire just collapse back on itself due to gravity
and weight?

The two spiral unblockers I have my eye on are the Screwfix one for
£22.99 or the much cheaper Silverline for around £8.

By the way, my downpipes are round white plastic 68mm in diameter.

Any other suggestions most welcome!

Thanks again.

MM

[alan_m]

On 06/04/2018 22:41, MM wrote:

>
> Any other suggestions most welcome!

You can probably get the hose up up the downpipe by feeding from the
bottom - the downpipe will stop the hose folding back on itself.

If you have room at the bottom of the downpipe a bare end of a hose may
be sufficient to clear a blockage but ideally a nozzle set to the
narrowest higher pressure jet will work a lot better. Feed the hose up
before turning on the water.

You don't say if the downpipe has push-fit or solvent welded fittings.
If the former you may be able to take off an angled shoe at the bottom
of the downpipe to give you more room.

If you have moss on the roof the blockage is probably that. If so just
clearing the downpipe may not be a long time cure as the moss in the
gutter will migrate to the downpipe again in heavy rainfall.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

[MM]

On Fri, 6 Apr 2018 23:26:37 +0100, alan_m <ju...@admac.myzen.co.uk>
wrote:

The downpipes on these fairly new houses (2004) don't end at the
bottom over a drain grille, but are fed just below the surface of the
ground and into a plastic drain connector like this:
https://www.plasticdrainage.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/u/g/ug254_1.jpg

I bought a rainwater diverter:
http://www.3ptechnik.com/files/product_2000120_001.png

This requires the downpipe to be cut, thus also allowing me access to
the pipe from about 4 feet up from the ground, so I can poke suitable
tools up there.

I'd already thought of using my garden hose. I have two types of hose,
the original one, a standard green garden plastic hose, and a much
thinner one from Wilko, which is less bulky, but still delivers plenty
of water to, say, wash the car or water the garden.

So it's a toss up between the standard, less flexible one and the
other, thinner one. I also have guide rods for feeding e.g. Ethernet
or other cables through walls. These rods are much thinner than drain
rods, but are fairly stiff. Too stiff to negotiate the elbow at the
top of the pipe, but I might strike lucky and find a blockage half-way
up which even these thin rods - or either of the hoses - will
dislodge.

And then, finally, I have the option of getting one of those spiral
unblockers.

The one thing I am loathe to do is buy a long ladder, as I have never
liked heights and while I'm okay on a fairly high step ladder (mine is
a six footer) or even the loft ladder, I'd need a very long one to
reach the gutter.

So as soon as it gets light outside I'm going to try sticking things
up the pipe. First the standard hose, then the thinner one. Or
(thinks...) maybe I'll try those feeder rods first.

By the way, I do also have a Karcher pressure washer and Karcher do an
accessory kit consisting of 20m of high pressure hose and a gutter
sled, but now we're talking big bucks here. Around £64 from Screwfix
or Amazon I believe. But it would almost certainly blast out any
blockage.

Thanks for your comments.

MM

[The Natural Philosopher]

Push the hose UP the pipe towards the blockage

Works with pipes full of turds and sanitary towels


--
The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all
private property.

Karl Marx

[Richard]

WTF? I hope *his* downpipe isn't.

[MM]

I thought I had made it clear that this is a gutter *downpipe" here,
not a toilet drain!

MM

[Andrew Mawson]

"MM" wrote in message news:c4sgcd95f2vemunqa...@4ax.com...

Buy or borrow a ladder and dismantle the down pipe to clear it. Re-fit and
put a wire cage into the top of the down pipe where it exits the gutter.

You are going to need that ladder in the future for gutter maintenance
anyway, they are a long term investment - I've only just replaced the one I
bought when we were first married, and that was 44 years ago !

Andrew

[The Natural Philosopher]

My point was that expanding tampons are a far worse challenge than dead
leaves and moss.


> MM
>


--
"What do you think about Gay Marriage?"
"I don't."
"Don't what?"
"Think about Gay Marriage."

[Tim Lamb]

In message <ockgcdh7ch5dhjed4...@4ax.com>, MM
<kyli...@yahoo.co.uk> writes

In my experience the blockage will be the rainwater diverter itself.
Cleaning and re-fitting should clear the problem.
>

--
Tim Lamb

[The Natural Philosopher]

I'll second that. Rainwater diverters are crap.

Better have a water butt that overflows into old drain

>>
>


--
Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

[michael adams]

"MM" <kyli...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:c4sgcd95f2vemunqa...@4ax.com...

To be fair to Turnip for once, I don't think he's suggesting
it is. What he's implying is that any technique capable of
shifting impacted turds and sanitary towels from a soil
pipe should be equally capable of shifting whatever it is
that's blocking your down pipe.

Poor Turnip.

One of the few times he's spoken from actual experience and
really knows what he's talking about, you all just throw it
back in his face.


michael adams

...

[The Natural Philosopher]

You just couldn't resist the ad hominmen could you?
>
> michael adams
>
> ...
>
>


--
Canada is all right really, though not for the whole weekend.

"Saki"

[Jeff Layman]

Not IMHO. I've been using them for upwards of 10 years without problem.
I've never had one block and need cleaning out. BUT I do use gutter
guards
(<https://www.screwfix.com/p/floplast-gutter-guards-100mm-black-10-pack/12515>).
These do keep a lot of rubbish out, particularly leaves and moss.

When I inspect the gutters what I find is not just small amounts of
vegetable matter, but what could be sand or other mineral material. Is
it possible that concrete tiles weather and the surface slowly wears
away? These tiles are just over 50 years old.

--

Jeff

[tabb...@gmail.com]

Definitely. And they wear faster on shallow slopes due to more freeze-thaw damage.


NT

[David]

Depending on what is causing the blockage, just clearing the top of the
pipe may be a very short term fix.

One of the more unpleasant jobs I have to do every few years is unblock
the downpipe from the guttering at the front of the house.

By the time the elbow is blocked, the complete run of guttering is full of
mainly moss (those green slug shaped things) off the roof. The moss
effectively creates its own fine soi so there is a combination of moss and
fine soil.

Eventually enough accumulates to spill over into the downpipe enough to
block it.

At that point just clearing the down pipe is a very short term fix. It
very quickly blocks again because all of the guttering is silted up.

You have posted that you are considering spending £20(ish) and see £60(ish)
for an add on to your Karcher as very expensive. I think you need to
review your budget.

I know this is a DIY forum but if you don't want to do ladders then one
alternative is to hire a handyman who has his own ladder to clear out your
guttering. £60-£100 could well cover that. Some window cleaners also clean
gutters (they tend to have ladders and stuff) so worth an ask.

http://guttercleanandrepair.co.uk/gutter-cleaning-maintenance-repair/
This gives a nice picture of what your gutter may look like!

If you really want to DIY it the next option is to hire a scaffolding
tower which is suitable for people who are not happy on ladders.

https://www.hss.com/hire/c/access/access-towers-and-platforms

for an example.

I have used towers in the past and they are easy to put up and I feel much
safer inside one than I do on a ladder.

So - hire a man or a scaffolding tower.

Or buy the wonder blaster from Karcher is you only want a short term fix.

Cheers


Dave R







--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[alan_m]

On 07/04/2018 12:33, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:

>> When I inspect the gutters what I find is not just small amounts of
>> vegetable matter, but what could be sand or other mineral material. Is
>> it possible that concrete tiles weather and the surface slowly wears
>> away? These tiles are just over 50 years old.
>
> Definitely. And they wear faster on shallow slopes due to more freeze-thaw damage.

Made worse by having established moss which retains a large amount of
water which can freeze. The freezing results in shallow pits in the
tiles which in turn provide the ideal conditions for moss growth. More
moss = larger pits = more moss. Not helped if colonies of pigeons use
local roofs as their daytime perching waiting for neighbours to throw
out food waste.

[MM]

No, I've only just bought it. I got it because I had to cut the
downpipe in order to push something up it. I could have used a pipe
socket to rejoin the pipe, but since I've had a water butt for four
years, I thought why not kill two birds with one stone.

SEE MY LATEST POST FOR THE COMPLETE SUCCESS STORY!

MM

[MM]

Is that ALL rainwater diverters? Every single on in the whole world?

>Better have a water butt that overflows into old drain

What are you going to fill it with if not the downpipe?

MM

[MM]

Sorry, I can't go up tall ladders. I'm 72 with heart disease and a
dislike of heights above 2m.

MM

[MM]

You might have a point if there was anyone here who uses tampons or
any other form of birth control.

MM

[Andy Burns]

MM wrote:

> tampons or any other form of birth control

Want to re-think that?

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <7pudnd8NofyZG1XH...@brightview.co.uk>,

michael adams <mjad...@mjadams25.plus.com> wrote:

> Poor Turnip.

> One of the few times he's spoken from actual experience and
> really knows what he's talking about, you all just throw it
> back in his face.

Lets hope that didn't happen when he was clearing his drains.

--
*Why do the two "sanction"s (noun and verb) mean opposites?*

Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Unknown]

I had this exact problem a year or two ago and pushing the spiral
drain unblocker up the down pipe caused it to collapse back down onto
me.
I got two rocket launching tubes out of the garage, each about 1.5m
long and threaded the spiral into them, this prevented the collapse
and I got the blockage (which was in the elbow) sorted.
Much easier than going up a tall ladder (which I'm not keen on doing).
It's still OK now.
- Mike
(Who likes to employ rocket science whenever possible).

[MM]

On Fri, 6 Apr 2018 23:26:37 +0100, alan_m <ju...@admac.myzen.co.uk>
wrote:

You'll be pleased to know that I've cleared the blockage successfully,
using a Screwfix spiral drain unblocker.

I am still shaking from the immediate and wondrous effect 30 minutes
ago. Takes me back to my first orgasm aged 12.

I got home from Screwfix, had a bacon sarnie, assembled the handle on
to the unblocker, stuck the wire up the drainpipe and "rodded" it a
bit while turning the handle.

All of a sudden out comes a great shower of water and crud! Bingo!

Job done. The Screwfix tool costs £22.99, so it's money well spent.

To answer to one of the other responders, if it blocks again, well,
now I have THE tool to unblock it again.

Plus, while I was at Screwfix I also ordered a half-round scraper to
attach to my long pole. I'm going to use that to scrape along the
gutters.

By the way, before starting this job I poked a webcam out of the
upstairs window on a long selfie stick to spy into the gutter. While
there is ~some~ moss in there, it's not too bad after 14 years and
never been cleaned out. It's at times like these that I wish I had a
little drone with camera.

Right, now it's time to connect up that rain diverter in order to
rejoin the cut pipes.

Shame we can't do a smiley face in Usenet. Maybe like this ;)

MM

[Cynic]

Applause:) :) :) but I'd have used a ladder and you're only a year older than me.
Alternatively as you had the downpipe already severed a set of drain rods with a correctly sized disc (or one cut square if the downpipe isn't round) would have been useful and have future potential for other use.

[Marland]

>>
>> I'll second that. Rainwater diverters are crap.
>
> Is that ALL rainwater diverters? Every single on in the whole world?
>
>> Better have a water butt that overflows into old drain
>
> What are you going to fill it with if not the downpipe?
>
> MM
>

The down pipe ,but all the flow gets fed into the water butt even when it
is full.
At that point you need to arrange for it to overflow to go down the drain
that pipe originally fed into or somewhere else like a pond or flower bed.

Basically the Butt is in the flow path all the time whereas the diverter if
it is installed correctly only feeds the Butt till it is full and then the
flow resumes going down to the drain.

Pros and cons for both methods.
Full bore can be useful if a large number of butts are linked by piping of
a suitable size and all have got low after a dry spell, one good thunder
shower can fill them in minutes whereas with a diverter and the small pipe
connecting it to the butt a lot of water will overwhelm the diverter and go
down the drain to waste.
GH

[MM]

On 7 Apr 2018 15:38:34 GMT, Marland <geme...@btinternet.co.uk>
wrote:

>
>>>
>>> I'll second that. Rainwater diverters are crap.
>>
>> Is that ALL rainwater diverters? Every single on in the whole world?
>>
>>> Better have a water butt that overflows into old drain
>>
>> What are you going to fill it with if not the downpipe?
>>
>> MM
>>
>The down pipe ,but all the flow gets fed into the water butt even when it
>is full.
>At that point you need to arrange for it to overflow to go down the drain
>that pipe originally fed into or somewhere else like a pond or flower bed.
>
>Basically the Butt is in the flow path all the time whereas the diverter if
>it is installed correctly only feeds the Butt till it is full and then the
>flow resumes going down to the drain.

Well, that's exactly what happens with the diverter I bought. But it
has to be installed at the correct level compared to the inlet on the
butt.

>Pros and cons for both methods.
>Full bore can be useful if a large number of butts are linked by piping of
>a suitable size and all have got low after a dry spell, one good thunder
>shower can fill them in minutes whereas with a diverter and the small pipe
>connecting it to the butt a lot of water will overwhelm the diverter and go
>down the drain to waste.

As long as I get a full water butt after a rainy spell, that's all I
want.

Without a rainwater diverter, which most households, I reckon, do not
have, the entire rainfall is 'wasted' down the downpipe anyway.

MM

[MM]

On Sat, 7 Apr 2018 14:05:50 +0100, Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk>
wrote:

>MM wrote:
>
>> tampons or any other form of birth control
>
>Want to re-think that?

In an emergency, I'll bet dirty boys have thought of any old excuse...

MM

[MM]

Drain rods are far too stiff. They wouldn't have gone round the elbow
at the top of the downpipe. The spiral went up there no problem.

I had previously tried garden hose, feeder rods for laying cables
through partition walls, I even shot my Karcher up there. Nothing
cleared it. I tried shooting water (albeit only mains pressure) from
the top down the downpipe. No joy. That's when I drove to Screwfix and
bought the ruddy spiral. A gem.

MM

[Marland]

>
> Well, that's exactly what happens with the diverter I bought. But it
> has to be installed at the correct level compared to the inlet on the
> butt.
>
>> Pros and cons for both methods.
>> Full bore can be useful if a large number of butts are linked by piping of
>> a suitable size and all have got low after a dry spell, one good thunder
>> shower can fill them in minutes whereas with a diverter and the small pipe
>> connecting it to the butt a lot of water will overwhelm the diverter and go
>> down the drain to waste.
>
> As long as I get a full water butt after a rainy spell, that's all I
> want.
>

Fine. I’m not trying to convince you to change,just answered your question
of where the water in the other. method came from.
We use both methods Diverter on the sheds and greenhouse, full bore on the
house .

With a lot of blueberry plants and a pond to top up both of which would not
like the mains water we have 5 butts connected to the full bore . after a
dry spell it can take a while of gentle rain to fill them and raise the
pond level, so if you get a heavy but short duration summer downpour I want
the lot,not see some going past the diverter and into the soak away because
that link pipe isn’t big enough.
If their is too much the pond and bog garden absorb it.

GH

[Muddymike]

On 06/04/2018 23:26, alan_m wrote:
> On 06/04/2018 22:41, MM wrote:
>
>>
>> Any other suggestions most welcome!
>
> You can probably get the hose up up the downpipe by feeding from the
> bottom - the downpipe will stop the hose folding back on itself.
>
> If you have room at the bottom of the downpipe  a bare end of a hose may
> be sufficient to clear a blockage but ideally a nozzle set to the
> narrowest higher pressure jet will work a lot better.  Feed the hose up
> before turning on the water.
>
> You don't say if the downpipe has push-fit or solvent welded fittings.
> If the former you may be able to take off an angled shoe at the bottom
> of the downpipe to give you more room.
>
> If you have moss on the roof the blockage is probably that. If so just
> clearing the downpipe may not be a long time cure as the moss in the
> gutter will migrate to the downpipe again in heavy rainfall.
>
>

Good idea but push the hose up with water turned on. The pressure stops
it kinking.

Mike

[Cynic]

The close fitting disc or square would act like a piston and pressure/suction created by shoving it up and down the pipe dislodge all but the most Stubborn obstruction