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Radiator shelves and curtains above radiators...
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Jeremy Nicoll - news posts
Dec 3, 2011, 3:58:44 PM12/3/11
to
Are radiator shelves a good idea?
Most of the radiators in my house are positioned under windows (with decent
quality recent double glazing fitted - more to minimise maintenance because
of my long-term illness, than for minimising heat loss though they're
certainly better than what was there before).
In most cases the window sills' bullnose front edge projects only by an inch
or two over the top of the radiators. I was wondering about fitting radiator
shelves (where there's room) or extending the sills forward a bit (perhaps
just crudely by temporarily, in winter, fixing a deeper shelf to the flat
sill surface).
Some rooms currently have roller blinds (but no curtains); the blinds run
within the window recess, only just in front of the window, & thus several
inches away from the front of the sills.
If I fit curtains I'm assuming it'd be a bad idea to have them fall past the
top of the radiator as that would tend to send heat behind the curtains into
the air gap between them and the window. If the curtains are to stop above
the sill they either need to be totally within the window recess (which
might look a bit odd), or they'd need to hang sufficiently sheer so that
they didn't (eg in a fold) project into the room past the front of the sill.
I found comments at: http://www.click4carbon.com/ECOInfo/radiators.php which
say some popularly believed things are myths. For example:
'Radiator shelves save energy by directing heat away from windows and into
the centre of the room'
If this statement were true, you would wonder why most radiators are fitted
under windows. The reason why radiators are mostly fitted here is to
counteract downdraughts. These downdraughts are not draughts from outside -
you will have downdraughts even with the most airtight windows. Downdraughts
are the result of room air being rapidly cooled on the cold surface of the
glass, causing the air to fall and producing a draught. If it were true that
radiator shelves direct warm air from radiators to the centre of the room,
it would be equally true that shelves direct cold downdraughts to the centre
of the room. In fact, neither of these statements is true.
It is also untrue that heat from radiators is immediately lost through
windows. This will only occur if the window is open. Radiators are mostly
installed under windows because this is generally the preferred position for
them.
As ANY radiator manufacturer will confirm, radiator shelves actually REDUCE
the heat output from your radiators, typically by around 5%. Therefore, this
is hardly a measure to increase your comfort - or to save energy. Avoid
radiator shelves.
and:
'Always tuck in curtains behind the radiator when it's dark'
It's sound advice to close curtains at dusk to help reduce heat loss.
However, tucking in curtains behind the radiators is not recommended. With
most modern radiators, at least half of the heat output is from behind the
front panel. If you tuck in curtains behind the radiator, you will restrict
the free flow of warm air. In some cases, tucked-in curtains will completely
block this passage of warm air, and substantially reduce the heat output.
Therefore, the best advice is not to do anything that restricts the free
flow of air around the radiators, or you will reduce heat output. This also
applies to space under and in front of the radiators, where there should be
a minimum of 4 inches clear.
If your curtains drape below the top of the radiator, you must consider
buying shorter ones. If you are not prepared to do this, consider tucking
the curtains onto the window sill when it gets dark. If the tops of your
radiators are very close to the underside of the window sills, ensure your
curtains are as short as possible. When drawing curtains at dusk, tuck them
onto the window sill. If you're not prepared to do this, it may be better to
hang them loose and in front of the radiator, rather than tucking them
behind, as this can cause less of a restriction to the free passage of warm
air. However, if you have a pelmet above your curtains, then leaving them
loose and in front of the radiator is not advised. You'll need to use a bit
of judgement. Allow plenty of space for air to circulate freely around
radiators.
This suggests to me that curtains dropping above the sill should ideally
actually touch it, sealing off the curtain-window air gap, rather than come
to a stop - say - 1/2" above the sill.
I don't have a wife or girlfriend to impose too much 'cosmetic necessity' on
whatever I do, but I don't really want the windows to be too ugly.
Comments welcome...
--
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.
Email sent to my from-address will be deleted. Instead, please reply
to newsre...@wingsandbeaks.org.uk replacing "aaa" by "284".
Most of the radiators in my house are positioned under windows (with decent
quality recent double glazing fitted - more to minimise maintenance because
of my long-term illness, than for minimising heat loss though they're
certainly better than what was there before).
In most cases the window sills' bullnose front edge projects only by an inch
or two over the top of the radiators. I was wondering about fitting radiator
shelves (where there's room) or extending the sills forward a bit (perhaps
just crudely by temporarily, in winter, fixing a deeper shelf to the flat
sill surface).
Some rooms currently have roller blinds (but no curtains); the blinds run
within the window recess, only just in front of the window, & thus several
inches away from the front of the sills.
If I fit curtains I'm assuming it'd be a bad idea to have them fall past the
top of the radiator as that would tend to send heat behind the curtains into
the air gap between them and the window. If the curtains are to stop above
the sill they either need to be totally within the window recess (which
might look a bit odd), or they'd need to hang sufficiently sheer so that
they didn't (eg in a fold) project into the room past the front of the sill.
I found comments at: http://www.click4carbon.com/ECOInfo/radiators.php which
say some popularly believed things are myths. For example:
'Radiator shelves save energy by directing heat away from windows and into
the centre of the room'
If this statement were true, you would wonder why most radiators are fitted
under windows. The reason why radiators are mostly fitted here is to
counteract downdraughts. These downdraughts are not draughts from outside -
you will have downdraughts even with the most airtight windows. Downdraughts
are the result of room air being rapidly cooled on the cold surface of the
glass, causing the air to fall and producing a draught. If it were true that
radiator shelves direct warm air from radiators to the centre of the room,
it would be equally true that shelves direct cold downdraughts to the centre
of the room. In fact, neither of these statements is true.
It is also untrue that heat from radiators is immediately lost through
windows. This will only occur if the window is open. Radiators are mostly
installed under windows because this is generally the preferred position for
them.
As ANY radiator manufacturer will confirm, radiator shelves actually REDUCE
the heat output from your radiators, typically by around 5%. Therefore, this
is hardly a measure to increase your comfort - or to save energy. Avoid
radiator shelves.
and:
'Always tuck in curtains behind the radiator when it's dark'
It's sound advice to close curtains at dusk to help reduce heat loss.
However, tucking in curtains behind the radiators is not recommended. With
most modern radiators, at least half of the heat output is from behind the
front panel. If you tuck in curtains behind the radiator, you will restrict
the free flow of warm air. In some cases, tucked-in curtains will completely
block this passage of warm air, and substantially reduce the heat output.
Therefore, the best advice is not to do anything that restricts the free
flow of air around the radiators, or you will reduce heat output. This also
applies to space under and in front of the radiators, where there should be
a minimum of 4 inches clear.
If your curtains drape below the top of the radiator, you must consider
buying shorter ones. If you are not prepared to do this, consider tucking
the curtains onto the window sill when it gets dark. If the tops of your
radiators are very close to the underside of the window sills, ensure your
curtains are as short as possible. When drawing curtains at dusk, tuck them
onto the window sill. If you're not prepared to do this, it may be better to
hang them loose and in front of the radiator, rather than tucking them
behind, as this can cause less of a restriction to the free passage of warm
air. However, if you have a pelmet above your curtains, then leaving them
loose and in front of the radiator is not advised. You'll need to use a bit
of judgement. Allow plenty of space for air to circulate freely around
radiators.
This suggests to me that curtains dropping above the sill should ideally
actually touch it, sealing off the curtain-window air gap, rather than come
to a stop - say - 1/2" above the sill.
I don't have a wife or girlfriend to impose too much 'cosmetic necessity' on
whatever I do, but I don't really want the windows to be too ugly.
Comments welcome...
--
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.
Email sent to my from-address will be deleted. Instead, please reply
to newsre...@wingsandbeaks.org.uk replacing "aaa" by "284".
Dave Liquorice
Dec 3, 2011, 4:40:47 PM12/3/11
to
On Sat, 3 Dec 2011 20:58:44 +0000, Jeremy Nicoll - news posts wrote:
> 'Always tuck in curtains behind the radiator when it's dark'
>
> It's sound advice to close curtains at dusk to help reduce heat loss.
> However, tucking in curtains behind the radiators is not recommended.
> With most modern radiators, at least half of the heat output is from
> behind the front panel.
That seems to be assuming a single convector not a double. I can't
> 'Always tuck in curtains behind the radiator when it's dark'
>
> It's sound advice to close curtains at dusk to help reduce heat loss.
> However, tucking in curtains behind the radiators is not recommended.
> With most modern radiators, at least half of the heat output is from
> behind the front panel.
see how "at least half the heat output" comes from the rear of a
double convector. And a modern double convector will have fins on the
inside faces so I suspect >50% comes from the middle and much less
from the faces front or rear.
If you have a finned double convector I feel that tucking the curtain
behind the rad and not having it draped over the front will get more
heat into the room.
> I don't have a wife or girlfriend to impose too much 'cosmetic
> necessity' on whatever I do, but I don't really want the windows to be
> too ugly.
As the bits you quote say put the curtains onto the window cill. If
> necessity' on whatever I do, but I don't really want the windows to be
> too ugly.
you have a gap between the curtain and the cill cold air will come
pouring through it.
--
Cheers
Dave.
Roger Chapman
Dec 3, 2011, 5:20:57 PM12/3/11
to
On 03/12/2011 20:58, Jeremy Nicoll - news posts wrote:
> Are radiator shelves a good idea?
Depends on compared with what ...
> Are radiator shelves a good idea?
> Most of the radiators in my house are positioned under windows (with decent
> quality recent double glazing fitted - more to minimise maintenance because
> of my long-term illness, than for minimising heat loss though they're
> certainly better than what was there before).
>
> In most cases the window sills' bullnose front edge projects only by an inch
> or two over the top of the radiators. I was wondering about fitting radiator
> shelves (where there's room) or extending the sills forward a bit (perhaps
> just crudely by temporarily, in winter, fixing a deeper shelf to the flat
> sill surface).
>
> Some rooms currently have roller blinds (but no curtains); the blinds run
> inches away from the front of the sills.
>
> If I fit curtains I'm assuming it'd be a bad idea to have them fall past the
> top of the radiator as that would tend to send heat behind the curtains into
> the air gap between them and the window. If the curtains are to stop above
> the sill they either need to be totally within the window recess (which
> might look a bit odd), or they'd need to hang sufficiently sheer so that
> they didn't (eg in a fold) project into the room past the front of the sill.
>
>
> I found comments at: http://www.click4carbon.com/ECOInfo/radiators.php which
> say some popularly believed things are myths. For example:
>
> 'Radiator shelves save energy by directing heat away from windows and into
> the centre of the room'
>
> If this statement were true, you would wonder why most radiators are fitted
> under windows. The reason why radiators are mostly fitted here is to
> counteract downdraughts. These downdraughts are not draughts from outside -
> you will have downdraughts even with the most airtight windows. Downdraughts
> are the result of room air being rapidly cooled on the cold surface of the
> glass, causing the air to fall and producing a draught. If it were true that
> radiator shelves direct warm air from radiators to the centre of the room,
> it would be equally true that shelves direct cold downdraughts to the centre
> of the room. In fact, neither of these statements is true.
What radiator shelves do is deflect the rising air behind the radiator
>
> If I fit curtains I'm assuming it'd be a bad idea to have them fall past the
> top of the radiator as that would tend to send heat behind the curtains into
> the air gap between them and the window. If the curtains are to stop above
> the sill they either need to be totally within the window recess (which
> might look a bit odd), or they'd need to hang sufficiently sheer so that
> they didn't (eg in a fold) project into the room past the front of the sill.
>
>
> I found comments at: http://www.click4carbon.com/ECOInfo/radiators.php which
> say some popularly believed things are myths. For example:
>
> 'Radiator shelves save energy by directing heat away from windows and into
> the centre of the room'
>
> If this statement were true, you would wonder why most radiators are fitted
> under windows. The reason why radiators are mostly fitted here is to
> counteract downdraughts. These downdraughts are not draughts from outside -
> you will have downdraughts even with the most airtight windows. Downdraughts
> are the result of room air being rapidly cooled on the cold surface of the
> glass, causing the air to fall and producing a draught. If it were true that
> radiator shelves direct warm air from radiators to the centre of the room,
> it would be equally true that shelves direct cold downdraughts to the centre
> of the room. In fact, neither of these statements is true.
away from the wall. With or without the shelves that air is going to mix
with the cooler air coming out of the bottom of the window recess but if
it stops the heat going behind a curtain then that surely is a good thing.
> It is also untrue that heat from radiators is immediately lost through
> windows. This will only occur if the window is open. Radiators are mostly
> installed under windows because this is generally the preferred position for
> them.
that windows are usually the coldest part of the walls and radiators
positioned there reduce the temperature gradient across the room more
than positioning them elsewhere. From that point of view the worst place
to position them is on an inside wall.
> As ANY radiator manufacturer will confirm, radiator shelves actually REDUCE
> the heat output from your radiators, typically by around 5%. Therefore, this
> is hardly a measure to increase your comfort - or to save energy. Avoid
> radiator shelves.
It seems to me that the wall behind the radiator will benefit only
marginally and that that 5% heat loss is more a case of heat less so the
radiator gives out less heat because the air flow from behind the
radiator is restricted.
> and:
>
>
> 'Always tuck in curtains behind the radiator when it's dark'
>
> It's sound advice to close curtains at dusk to help reduce heat loss.
> However, tucking in curtains behind the radiators is not recommended. With
> most modern radiators, at least half of the heat output is from behind the
> front panel. If you tuck in curtains behind the radiator, you will restrict
> the free flow of warm air. In some cases, tucked-in curtains will completely
> block this passage of warm air, and substantially reduce the heat output.
> Therefore, the best advice is not to do anything that restricts the free
> flow of air around the radiators, or you will reduce heat output. This also
> applies to space under and in front of the radiators, where there should be
> a minimum of 4 inches clear.
output is on the wrong side of the radiator but tucking the curtain
behind the radiator will nowhere near cut off the rising air completely.
The great majority of the heating surface is on the fins in an area not
actually obstructed by the curtain.
> If your curtains drape below the top of the radiator, you must consider
> buying shorter ones. If you are not prepared to do this, consider tucking
> the curtains onto the window sill when it gets dark. If the tops of your
> radiators are very close to the underside of the window sills, ensure your
> curtains are as short as possible. When drawing curtains at dusk, tuck them
> onto the window sill. If you're not prepared to do this, it may be better to
> hang them loose and in front of the radiator, rather than tucking them
> behind, as this can cause less of a restriction to the free passage of warm
> air. However, if you have a pelmet above your curtains, then leaving them
> loose and in front of the radiator is not advised. You'll need to use a bit
> of judgement. Allow plenty of space for air to circulate freely around
> radiators.
the larger part of the radiator output up the wrong side of the curtain
and will encourage the development of a rotating air system within the
window recess regardless of any pelmet. You want to direct as much heat
as you can into the room, not the window recess.
> This suggests to me that curtains dropping above the sill should ideally
> actually touch it, sealing off the curtain-window air gap, rather than come
> to a stop - say - 1/2" above the sill.
much as possible. Leaving a gap at the bottom is an open invitation for
the cool air to leave the window recess to be replaced by warm air going
in at the top of the recess.
> I don't have a wife or girlfriend to impose too much 'cosmetic necessity' on
> whatever I do, but I don't really want the windows to be too ugly.
into the window recess at night. That would really cut down the heat
lost through the windows.
> Comments welcome...
>
See above ...
--
Roger Chapman
Mike Clarke
Dec 3, 2011, 5:57:03 PM12/3/11
to
On 03/12/2011 20:58, Jeremy Nicoll - news posts wrote:
> If your curtains drape below the top of the radiator, you must consider
> buying shorter ones.
An extravagant solution. Just shorten them instead!
> buying shorter ones.
--
Mike Clarke
Gazz
Dec 3, 2011, 8:19:53 PM12/3/11
to
>> It's sound advice to close curtains at dusk to help reduce heat loss.
>> However, tucking in curtains behind the radiators is not recommended.
i often wonder why the continental method isnt copied over here,
>> However, tucking in curtains behind the radiators is not recommended.
insulated external roller shutters on the windows,
ok they are not as easy as hanging a pair of curtians to install, new builds
usually have the roller part in the wall, but retro fit ones have the roller
external, which some may not like (i couldent care less, i live in the house
so sod what people think looking at the outside of it)
operation can be manual, i.e. you pull on a flat ribbon jobbie by the side
of the window (on the inside obviousely) and roll the shutter down, or can
be electric, from a button by each window to a timer/remote controlled whole
house system, handy to make it look like someones home when they are away on
holiday, tho the shutters down are a pretty good security feature.
Most of the ones i've seen have slits in the individual slats, so you can
let light in by raising the shutter slightly to expose the slits at the top
of each slat, so no need to wind them all the way up just to let a little
light in on a morning, and when the shutters are fully down it's black out
conditions, great if you have a south east facing bedroom like i have, and a
bloody street lamp across the road from the house.
Roger Chapman
Dec 4, 2011, 3:19:35 AM12/4/11
to
On 04/12/2011 01:19, Gazz wrote:
> i often wonder why the continental method isnt copied over here,
> insulated external roller shutters on the windows,
Never seen anything like that for sale in this country.
> i often wonder why the continental method isnt copied over here,
> insulated external roller shutters on the windows,
--
Roger Chapman
gri...@gmail.com
Dec 4, 2011, 7:05:08 PM12/4/11
to
On Sun, 04 Dec 2011 08:19:35 +0000, Roger Chapman
<ro...@nospam.zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
>> i often wonder why the continental method isnt copied over here,
>> insulated external roller shutters on the windows,
>
>Never seen anything like that for sale in this country.
I've seen them for sale thirty years ago. Never saw any installed,
<ro...@nospam.zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
>> i often wonder why the continental method isnt copied over here,
>> insulated external roller shutters on the windows,
>
>Never seen anything like that for sale in this country.
though; it was a very expensive system and I suspect the brochure pics
were German.
Andy Webber
Dec 5, 2011, 4:00:16 AM12/5/11
to
On 03/12/11 22:20, Roger Chapman wrote:
> The usual reason given for positioning radiators in front of window is
> that windows are usually the coldest part of the walls and radiators
> positioned there reduce the temperature gradient across the room more
> than positioning them elsewhere. From that point of view the worst place
> to position them is on an inside wall.
I once had a flat which had a large Critle window, and a large double
> The usual reason given for positioning radiators in front of window is
> that windows are usually the coldest part of the walls and radiators
> positioned there reduce the temperature gradient across the room more
> than positioning them elsewhere. From that point of view the worst place
> to position them is on an inside wall.
panel radiator (without fins) on an inside wall opposite. The curtains
were long enough to hang past the sill but not to reach the floor. I can
attest that this resulted in a significant cold draft at floor level
from a large convection flow, which was quite unpleasant. Double glazing
and curtains that reached the floor solved that problem.
I believe that there is a theory about radiators under the window that
results in a small loop of cold air in a triangle between the window,
sill and ceiling that helps push the main warm air circulation into the
room. I'm not saying I'm totally convinced by the theory, just that it
is a theory I've heard. And of course, as above, having the radiator
opposite is awful. But curtains (or blinds), done well, will be
effective at keeping the cold air trapped against the window and the
warm air in the room.
Cheers
Andy
charles
Dec 5, 2011, 11:53:50 AM12/5/11
to
In article <mpro.lvnblv...@wingsandbeaks.org.uk.invalid>,
Jeremy Nicoll - news posts <jn.nntp....@wingsandbeaks.org.uk> wrote:
[Snip]
>
> If this statement were true, you would wonder why most radiators are
> fitted under windows.
a very important reason for fitting radiators under windows is to leave
some wall space for furniture. In the room I am in at the moment (built as
an extention to the house) there is a big window in one wall a hatchway in
the middle of the next one - with a boxed in pipe underneath running the
full length of the wall - and, when we moved in, radiators taking up the
centre of both the other two walls. How were we suposed to fit a bookcase,
or any other bit of furniture against the walls?
Solution. Put a big radiator under the window and leave two walls clear
for furniture. One has a big bookcase and the other my desk and apiano.
--
From KT24
Using a RISC OS computer running v5.16
Jeremy Nicoll - news posts <jn.nntp....@wingsandbeaks.org.uk> wrote:
[Snip]
>
> If this statement were true, you would wonder why most radiators are
> fitted under windows.
some wall space for furniture. In the room I am in at the moment (built as
an extention to the house) there is a big window in one wall a hatchway in
the middle of the next one - with a boxed in pipe underneath running the
full length of the wall - and, when we moved in, radiators taking up the
centre of both the other two walls. How were we suposed to fit a bookcase,
or any other bit of furniture against the walls?
Solution. Put a big radiator under the window and leave two walls clear
for furniture. One has a big bookcase and the other my desk and apiano.
--
From KT24
Using a RISC OS computer running v5.16
m...@privacy.net
Dec 5, 2011, 6:52:00 PM12/5/11
to
On 5 Dec,
tall double panel next to it instead.
The biggest problem is SWMBO has her computer (which she is glued to) at the
opposite side of the door, and thus sits in the cold spot.
I'm contemplating (veeerrryyy sssslllloooowwwlllllyyy), UFH.
--
B Thumbs
Change lycos to yahoo to reply
charles <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Solution. Put a big radiator under the window and leave two walls clear
> for furniture. One has a big bookcase and the other my desk and apiano.
>
Big problem if the window is a patio door, as in our dining room. We have a
> Solution. Put a big radiator under the window and leave two walls clear
> for furniture. One has a big bookcase and the other my desk and apiano.
>
tall double panel next to it instead.
The biggest problem is SWMBO has her computer (which she is glued to) at the
opposite side of the door, and thus sits in the cold spot.
I'm contemplating (veeerrryyy sssslllloooowwwlllllyyy), UFH.
--
B Thumbs
Change lycos to yahoo to reply
Roger Chapman
Dec 6, 2011, 6:04:14 AM12/6/11
to
On 05/12/2011 23:52, m...@privacy.net wrote:
> I'm contemplating (veeerrryyy sssslllloooowwwlllllyyy), UFH.
The problem with UFH is that as a retro-fit it is very expensive to
> I'm contemplating (veeerrryyy sssslllloooowwwlllllyyy), UFH.
implement and because of the time it takes to warm up much better suited
to old fogies like me who spend much of their time indoors over winter
unlike most younger folk who spend their weekdays away at work and their
evenings and weekends out spending money rather faster than they earn it.
--
Roger Chapman
The Natural Philosopher
Dec 6, 2011, 7:22:32 AM12/6/11
to
It also works well in countries where its SO bloody cold that its
dangerous to small children and plumbing to not run heating 24x7.
Ultimately if I built another house I wouldn't use anything else.
And Id probably heat pump it as well.
But the retrospective installation cost is MASSIVE
Alan Braggins
Dec 6, 2011, 8:00:01 AM12/6/11
to
replacing it was just too much, so I've got radiators upstairs now.
Downstairs would be even more work, so that'll be radiators when it
fails too. Unless I win the lottery in the meantime, which is unlikely,
especially as I don't buy tickets....
My mother's new build bungalow is UFH with air-source heat pump.
Roger Chapman
Dec 6, 2011, 10:29:11 AM12/6/11
to
On 06/12/2011 13:00, Alan Braggins wrote:
>>>> I'm contemplating (veeerrryyy sssslllloooowwwlllllyyy), UFH.
>>>
>>> The problem with UFH is that as a retro-fit it is very expensive to
>>> implement and because of the time it takes to warm up much better suited
>>> to old fogies like me who spend much of their time indoors over winter
>>> unlike most younger folk who spend their weekdays away at work and their
>>> evenings and weekends out spending money rather faster than they earn it.
>>
>> +1
>>
>> It also works well in countries where its SO bloody cold that its
>> dangerous to small children and plumbing to not run heating 24x7.
>>
>> Ultimately if I built another house I wouldn't use anything else.
>> And Id probably heat pump it as well.
>> But the retrospective installation cost is MASSIVE
I have been toying with the idea for the last couple of years but the
>>>> I'm contemplating (veeerrryyy sssslllloooowwwlllllyyy), UFH.
>>>
>>> The problem with UFH is that as a retro-fit it is very expensive to
>>> implement and because of the time it takes to warm up much better suited
>>> to old fogies like me who spend much of their time indoors over winter
>>> unlike most younger folk who spend their weekdays away at work and their
>>> evenings and weekends out spending money rather faster than they earn it.
>>
>> +1
>>
>> It also works well in countries where its SO bloody cold that its
>> dangerous to small children and plumbing to not run heating 24x7.
>>
>> Ultimately if I built another house I wouldn't use anything else.
>> And Id probably heat pump it as well.
>> But the retrospective installation cost is MASSIVE
cost is, as you say, massive and the disruption is not to be sneered at
either. One of the previous owners of this house ripped out the stone
flag floor and replaced it with concrete on a very flimsy polythene
sheet with the result that there are some damp patches. I really must do
something but the ifs and buts get in the way. Ideally such a scheme
would include UFH, shifting the open staircase out of the living room
and various other linked jobs. I am waiting for a hernia operation at
the moment but in principle I still have enough strength to break up the
concrete and dig out another 6" (or whatever) of solid clay interspersed
with large stones. I reckon that shouldn't take me more than about a
month working 6 hours a day, seven days a week and should save a
considerable sum but then there is whether I should actually go for UFH
or not (less excavation), combine it with a ground source heat pump, and
if I go for that whether to dig up most of the garden or put the ground
loop out in the nearest field. Then there is the staircase whose
intrusion into the living room has been a major source of annoyance ever
since I moved in. The easiest solution might be to build an extension
just for the stairs but I doubt whether the planners would let me as
this is green belt. I can squeeze it mostly into what is presently a
cupboard downstairs but lose a chunk of bedroom upstairs. Decisions,
decisions, ... in the end I will probably do nothing since the best
years of my life have long since passed and I still have several
unfinished projects about the house already.
> Yes. I liked ours until the pipes perished, but the work involved in
> replacing it was just too much, so I've got radiators upstairs now.
> Downstairs would be even more work, so that'll be radiators when it
> fails too. Unless I win the lottery in the meantime, which is unlikely,
> especially as I don't buy tickets....
>
> My mother's new build bungalow is UFH with air-source heat pump.
That has a ground source heat pump which seems to suit them well.
--
Roger Chapman
Dave Liquorice
Dec 6, 2011, 4:48:57 PM12/6/11
to
On Tue, 06 Dec 2011 11:04:14 +0000, Roger Chapman wrote:
> The problem with UFH is that as a retro-fit it is very expensive to
> implement and because of the time it takes to warm up much better suited
> to old fogies like me who spend much of their time indoors over winter
> unlike most younger folk who spend their weekdays away at work and their
> evenings and weekends out spending money rather faster than they earn
> it.
UFH because it has such a long warm up (think days) just needs a
> The problem with UFH is that as a retro-fit it is very expensive to
> implement and because of the time it takes to warm up much better suited
> to old fogies like me who spend much of their time indoors over winter
> unlike most younger folk who spend their weekdays away at work and their
> evenings and weekends out spending money rather faster than they earn
> it.
change of mind set. From it's cool turn the heating on, it's hot turn
the heating off, to set the temperature to cool comfortable and leave
it switched on 24/7, let the thermostat(s) deal with controlling it.
If required have some more "conventional" rapid response heating but
that shouldn't be required in normal use.
--
Cheers
Dave.
thirty-six
Dec 7, 2011, 2:31:44 AM12/7/11
to
On Dec 3, 8:58 pm, Jeremy Nicoll - news posts
> to newsreply...@wingsandbeaks.org.uk replacing "aaa" by "284".
Fit your curtains so they meet the top of the window-cill and fit a
small upstand to the cill to tuck the curtain behind. You will also
need to close any gap at the sides if there is not enough curtain
weight to hold them tight against the wall. Drawing tacks work. Done
this way will help prevent the fall of cold air from the window after
the heating shuts off. The only fully effective means is to use
shutters, either internal or external.
Fit your curtains so they meet the top of the window-cill and fit a
small upstand to the cill to tuck the curtain behind. You will also
need to close any gap at the sides if there is not enough curtain
weight to hold them tight against the wall. Drawing tacks work. Done
this way will help prevent the fall of cold air from the window after
the heating shuts off. The only fully effective means is to use
shutters, either internal or external.
Roger Chapman
Dec 7, 2011, 3:27:55 AM12/7/11
to
can't escape the wasted heat as the house cools down but maintaining too
high a temperature during regular periods of absence of lack of need
does cost.
The occasional (or otherwise) need for rapid response heating is also an
issue if that has to be expensive electric rather than relatively cheap
gas. I have my early and late temperature set to 19C and daytime to 17C
but I have been spending more time of late sitting in front of my
computer and find that the cold becomes noticeable before it drops to
17C and I have to reach up and tweak the temperature. Same thing happens
in the afternoon as that is another time zone. With underfloor heating I
would not be able to do that but on the occasions I find time to do any
housework 19C is definitely too hot for comfort so a constant 19C would
also be a bind.
I don't think a concrete slab takes days to warm up (old houses with
2foot walls do) and depending on whether the insulation is placed on or
under the main slab makes a considerable difference to the time lag.
(Decisions, decisions ...)
--
Roger Chapman
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