Re: 30 Hz > 15KHz , 8 W rms , only £ 2477 for 2 .. Valve of course
alexand...@googlemail.com
>
> Don't skimp on quality, go for the best!
http://www.russandrews.com/product.asp?lookup=1®ion=UK¤cy=GB...
>
> In Russ's quest to extract even more
money from his customers' wallets
performance from his Hi-Fi system, he's
> identified a new way of cleaning your mains supply that's even more
> effective than our Ultra Purifier mains filters.
>
> The new product 'balances' the mains and cleans the mains supply in a
> completely new way; it's quite capable of lifting the performance of your
> system to a completely new level.
The principle is sound, like balanced audio circuits, it uses a
transformer with two secondaries of half the primary voltage,
connected in series, with the junction earthed and the load supplied
across the two outer ends. You could get a suitable transformer made
for much less than Russ charges.
Bill Borland
.com>, alexand...@googlemail.com <alexand...@googlemail.com>
writes
is there more to it than that?
--
Bill Borland
(G3EFS)
David Looser
>
> The principle is sound, like balanced audio circuits, it uses a
> transformer with two secondaries of half the primary voltage,
> connected in series, with the junction earthed and the load supplied
> across the two outer ends. You could get a suitable transformer made
> for much less than Russ charges.
A similar technique has been used for years for power-tools etc. on building
sites, except that the secondary voltage is 110, rather than 240V. The
centre tap of the secondary of the transformer is earthed, thus the voltage
to earth of each conductor is only 55V. As a safety technique it has it's
value, but what is the advantage when feeding audio equipment?
>
David.
Jason
One big benefit: it sounds good, so more can be charged.
David Looser
news:8bN%m.52462$Qp7....@newsfe25.ams2...
> David Looser wrote:
. As a safety technique it has it's
>> value, but what is the advantage when feeding audio equipment?
>
> One big benefit: it sounds good,
Does it? who says it "sounds good?, and why should it sound any different?
Frankly if it actually made a hap'th of difference to the sound people would
have been doing it decades ago.
> so more can be charged.
Well that's the point isn't it? persuade the gullible that it sounds better,
then rip them off.
David.
Ian Jackson
<jason...@blueyonder.co.uk> writes
Obviously it's the same reasoning concerning the virtues of using
balanced twin feeder versus (unbalanced) coax. If you don't do the
engineering properly with the coax (no balun etc), twin feeder can be a
better bet. Of course, in this case, there's only mains cable which,
unlike coax, has no screening).
--
Ian
David Looser
>
> Obviously it's the same reasoning concerning the virtues of using balanced
> twin feeder versus (unbalanced) coax.
Is it "obvious"? You are talking about signal connections above, but this is
a power supply. Please explain exactly how using a balanced mains supply
affects sound quality.
David.
Ian Jackson
<david....@btinternet.com> writes
good with smileys.]
--
Ian
David Looser
>>
> Sorry. I forgot to add a cynical, satirical, sarcastic smiley.> --
OK, message received and understood.
[I'm no good with smileys.]
Nor me!
David.
Yeti
> A similar technique has been used for years for power-tools etc. on building
> sites, except that the secondary voltage is 110, rather than 240V. The
> centre tap of the secondary of the transformer is earthed, thus the voltage
> to earth of each conductor is only 55V. As a safety technique it has it's
> value, but what is the advantage when feeding audio equipment?
> David.
It sounds like it's doing something useful when you're trying to part a
fool from as much of his money as possible.
geoff
<david....@btinternet.com> writes
a "low noise" mains flex (apparently it's magically perfect when it
comes out of the socket)
So, the last time was, and is, the last time
--
geoff
Bob Eager
> Last time I looked at that site, they were charging £76 or something for
> a "low noise" mains flex (apparently it's magically perfect when it
> comes out of the socket)
You were looking at the cheap ones, geoff. The real entertainment is to
be had with more expensive items...please do look...!
--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
Richard G3CWI
> You were looking at the cheap ones, geoff. The real entertainment is to
> be had with more expensive items...please do look...!
Nearly £4,000 for a 3m cable. Seems a bit costly.
--
Visit the Amazing Online Fleamarket at http://www.fleamarket.org.uk
Always lots of amateur radio gear!
Brian Reay
news:qRO%m.21797$xC7....@newsfe06.ams2...
> Bob Eager wrote:
>
>> You were looking at the cheap ones, geoff. The real entertainment is to
>> be had with more expensive items...please do look...!
>
> Nearly £4,000 for a 3m cable. Seems a bit costly.
Not if you are an MP ;-)
--
73
Brian G8OSN/W8OSN
www.g8osn.net
Ian Jackson
<seewe...@invalid.com> writes
>"Richard G3CWI" <g3...@tesco.net> wrote in message
>news:qRO%m.21797$xC7....@newsfe06.ams2...
>> Bob Eager wrote:
>>
>>> You were looking at the cheap ones, geoff. The real entertainment is
>>>to be had with more expensive items...please do look...!
>>
>> Nearly �4,000 for a 3m cable. Seems a bit costly.
>
>Not if you are an MP ;-)
>
As I SHOULD HAVE said before.....
"I have often wondered who actually buys this sort of stuff. All I can
think of is that it's rich people such as stockbrokers, bankers, TV
personalities, pop stars AND MPs - people who are essentially
non-technical, but simply 'want the best equipment than money can buy."
--
Ian
Yeti
> Bob Eager wrote:
>
>> You were looking at the cheap ones, geoff. The real entertainment is
>> to be had with more expensive items...please do look...!
>
> Nearly £4,000 for a 3m cable. Seems a bit costly.
>
Indeed. For 4 grand, I'd want a 3m long penis.
Owain
> You were looking at the cheap ones, geoff. The real entertainment is to
> be had with more expensive items...please do look...!
I looked and was entertained.
Is the 13A plug on
http://www.russandrews.com/product.asp?pf_id=1190
http://www.russandrews.com/product.asp?pf_id=1862
BS1363 compliant? I didn't think in-line flex entry was part of the
Spec, and the Russ Andrews one has part of the flange cut away, which
might be an uncertified modification and reduce the finger clearance
below the permitted minimum.
Also the instructions for
http://www.russandrews.com/product.asp?pf_id=1851
and others, are American. Isn't there some legal requirement about
supplying UK-relevant instructions for mains plugs?
Owain
Toby
"Bob Eager" <rd...@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:7q9rpe...@mid.individual.net...
> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 21:09:37 +0000, geoff wrote:
>
>> Last time I looked at that site, they were charging £76 or something for
>> a "low noise" mains flex (apparently it's magically perfect when it
>> comes out of the socket)
>
> You were looking at the cheap ones, geoff. The real entertainment is to
> be had with more expensive items...please do look...!
>
> http://tinyurl.com/y8tp3uq
How do they get away with horse-shit like this....
"All WATTGATE plugs fitted to our cables (and also the ones available loose
from us) are now cryogenically treated. Cryogenic treatment involves extreme
cooling of the metal parts of the plug and the theory is that it de-stresses
them. In terms of sound quality, we’ve found that the PowerKords fitted with
treated plugs sound smoother, more three-dimensional and less ‘closed in’
than ones fitted with untreated plugs."
...for a MAINS plug, not even an audio connection!
Owain
> Indeed. For 4 grand, I'd want a 3m long penis.
Wouldn't be much fun unless you had 3m long arms to go with it ;-)
Owain
Brian Reay
news:hhoer6$dmd$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
I thought the normal way to destress metals was to anneal them- heating them
to relieve Gibson Free energy rings a bell (some years since I did material
science at Uni.)
I note the magical Big K has appeared!
Spike
David Looser wrote:
Have a Google for 'humdinger' (and/or 'hum dinger').
--
from
Aero Spike
Not a member of the RSGB for 50 years 1959 - 2009
The Wanderer
Hmmm, I guess there ain't too many peops who sit in an anechoic chamber to
listen to their scratchy vinyl.
I reckon all 'high end' hifi is a con, stick it a normal room with yer
average selection of furniture, curtains, etc, and you've just wasted one
hell of a lot of money. Of course, no one is going to admit they've been a
complete plonker......
Now, where's that old Dansette and the 78 of Danny and the Juniors? :-)
--
The Wanderer
There is no place like 127.0.0.1
David Looser
>
> Have a Google for 'humdinger' (and/or 'hum dinger').
>
I don't need to Google for it, I've known about, and used, humdingers for
many years, they are used to balance out the hum induced by valve heaters
and their wiring. But this isn't valve heater wiring, this is mains wiring,
the other side of a double-wound transformer from the heater wiring. So I
ask again, explain in detail just how balanced mains wiring affects the
sound?
You can't do it can you?
David.
Spike
David Looser wrote:
As you know all about hum dingers, and have been using them for many
years, can you see any parallels between their modus operandi, and
(balanced) mains wiring?
geoff
<rd...@spamcop.net> writes
>On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 21:09:37 +0000, geoff wrote:
>
>> Last time I looked at that site, they were charging �76 or something for
>> a "low noise" mains flex (apparently it's magically perfect when it
>> comes out of the socket)
>
>You were looking at the cheap ones, geoff. The real entertainment is to
>be had with more expensive items...please do look...!
>
> http://tinyurl.com/y8tp3uq
>
Out of stock ?
Show me these people with SO much more money than sense
--
geoff
Owain
> Ah - I must have been looking at the classic
> Out of stock ?
I expect they pop down the wholesaler's for a 13A plug only when
needed, and cryogenically goldplate it to order.
Owain
Brian Reay
news:50kvj5pkd0kabee6n...@4ax.com...
Humdinger circuits seek to adjust currents (and thus induced fields) to
allow for areas of the heater circuitry where the fields don't "cancel" due
to unsymmetrical wiring etc. Good heater wiring is "twisted" but there are
untwisted bits near valve bases and there is the problem of coupling inside
the valve- heater to cathode especially. It seems sensible to assume the
latter is modest as it could easily be compensated for by heater
configuration (non-inductive winding or (as was used) lower current
heaters), something the manufacturers could have readily done.
It seems this magical transformer is intended to deal with a different
problem- not the "hum" from heater circuitry.
Adrian C
> I forgot 'MPs'.
> As I SHOULD HAVE said before.....
> "I have often wondered who actually buys this sort of stuff. All I can
> think of is that it's rich people such as stockbrokers, bankers, TV
> personalities, pop stars AND MPs - people who are essentially
> non-technical, but simply 'want the best equipment than money can buy."
And there I have a problem, because indirectly, WE are all paying for
this ...
--
Adrian C
The Natural Philosopher
The Natural Philosopher
and in any case a regulated 6v DC heater supply is MUCH better than
trying to balance hum.
Yeti
As long as I can reach enough of it.. :P
John Rumm
> Last time I looked at that site, they were charging �76 or something for
> a "low noise" mains flex (apparently it's magically perfect when it
> comes out of the socket)
Did you miss the bit where you rewire the house using:
(I liked the bit that said: "The cable is supplied in single insulated
form. For installation purposes the cable must be double insulated,
which can be provided at additional cost.", or in other words, this is
the cheap decorative version not to be used!)
--
Cheers,
John.
/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/
geoff
Rumm <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> writes
>geoff wrote:
>
>> Last time I looked at that site, they were charging �76 or something
>>for a "low noise" mains flex (apparently it's magically perfect when
>>it comes out of the socket)
>
>Did you miss the bit where you rewire the house using:
>
>http://tinyurl.com/yerxau8
>
>(I liked the bit that said: "The cable is supplied in single insulated
>form. For installation purposes the cable must be double insulated,
>which can be provided at additional cost.", or in other words, this is
>the cheap decorative version not to be used!)
>
together with the 2.5mm earth lead at 99p / m which looked a bit out of
place
--
geoff
Yeti
> geoff wrote:
>
>> Last time I looked at that site, they were charging �76 or something
>> for a "low noise" mains flex (apparently it's magically perfect when
>> it comes out of the socket)
>
> Did you miss the bit where you rewire the house using:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/yerxau8
"Please note: The installation of any mains circuit must be carried out
by a competent electrician, holding Part P and Edition 16 of IEEE
regulations."
Said electrician will probably have you committed for suggesting he fit
this garbage.
Yeti
Doesn't he sell a superior 4 conductor earth wire at �20 a metre then?
Spike
Brian Reay wrote:
David Looser mentioned 'balanced mains wiring'. An attempt to balance
valve heater circuits and thus reduce hum from the imbalance can be
done via a hum-dinger, the better ones having a resitively-loaded
centre tap on the heater tranny. The idea is to balance the heater
wiring to ground and thus reduce unequal currents. It does not seem
unreasonable that 'balanced mains wiring' might do the same thing,
thus reducing the effect of stray fields on the internals of the
equipment. Whether this is done through transformer design, or in some
other way, doesn't really matter.
--
from
Aero Spike
Not a member of the RSGB since 1959
Brian Reay
>>It seems this magical transformer is intended to deal with a different
>>problem- not the "hum" from heater circuitry.
>
> David Looser mentioned 'balanced mains wiring'. An attempt to balance
> valve heater circuits and thus reduce hum from the imbalance can be
> done via a hum-dinger, the better ones having a resitively-loaded
> centre tap on the heater tranny. The idea is to balance the heater
> wiring to ground and thus reduce unequal currents. It does not seem
> unreasonable that 'balanced mains wiring' might do the same thing,
> thus reducing the effect of stray fields on the internals of the
> equipment. Whether this is done through transformer design, or in some
> other way, doesn't really matter.
The magical transformer is intended to deal with a different (supposed)
problem.
Spike
Brian Reay wrote:
Possibly, but that's not what he said, which was why I quoted his
words.
David Looser
> As you know all about hum dingers, and have been using them for many
> years, can you see any parallels between their modus operandi, and
> (balanced) mains wiring?
>
Yes I can see a parallel, I can also see the differences. The heater wiring
runs right into the valve, the mains wiring does not. The mains input is fed
to a transformer primary, so the currents in the live and neutral conductors
are equal and thus the resulting created external magnetic fields pretty
much cancel out. The electric fields from the two conductors will be
different, but at the distance these will be away from the low-level audio
circuitry (you have remembered *not* to wrap the mains flex round the audio
input cable haven't you?) the effect is negligible. In any case *any* mains
wiring in the vicinity will have an equal effect regardless of whether it's
there to feed the audio amp or not, or are you proposing to run the entire
house off balanced mains?
The humdinger has been around since the 1930s, had this "balanced mains"
idea been effective it would also have been around since the 1930s.
David.
David Looser
news:hhoksd$og7$7...@news.albasani.net...
> David Looser wrote:
>> <alexand...@googlemail.com> wrote
>>> The principle is sound, like balanced audio circuits, it uses a
>>> transformer with two secondaries of half the primary voltage,
>>> connected in series, with the junction earthed and the load supplied
>>> across the two outer ends. You could get a suitable transformer made
>>> for much less than Russ charges.
>>
>> A similar technique has been used for years for power-tools etc. on
>> building sites, except that the secondary voltage is 110, rather than
>> 240V. The centre tap of the secondary of the transformer is earthed,
>> equipment?
>>
>>
> Cant see any with valves, because ultimately they have to have an output
> transformer, but on transistors, it means you can direct couple the
> loudspeaker and still keep it at mean earth potential.
Eh? The amplifier's mains transformer provides common-mode isolation between
the mains and the power supply to the amp. So you can keep the loudspeaker
at mean earth potential regardless of whether you are using balanced mains
or not.
David.
Jim Lesurf
<Aero.Spike@S&T.invalid> wrote:
> David Looser mentioned 'balanced mains wiring'. An attempt to balance
> valve heater circuits and thus reduce hum from the imbalance can be done
> via a hum-dinger, the better ones having a resitively-loaded centre tap
> on the heater tranny. The idea is to balance the heater wiring to ground
> and thus reduce unequal currents.
I'd assumed that the *currents* in a closed loop like the heater wiring
pair would already be close to equal. But that a 'hum dinger' or
'balancing' was to get the *potentials* to have equal but opposite values.
Thus reducing electrostatic/capacitance couplng from heater into cathode,
etc.
> It does not seem unreasonable that 'balanced mains wiring' might do the
> same thing, thus reducing the effect of stray fields on the internals of
> the equipment. Whether this is done through transformer design, or in
> some other way, doesn't really matter.
Again, I tend to assume that any food audio kit will have a sensibly
designed PSU, so have a transformer, etc, able to do its job. Also, my
understanding is that UK mains tends to be *unbalanced* by intent with the
neutral as near zero potential as practical. And hence kit would be
designed to accomodate that - not for assuming the neutral and live had
potentials of equal magnitude.
For similar reasons I have doubts that it is 'safer' to arrange for the
neutral to have larger potential swings relative to a grounding.
But then I do tend to have my doubts about many of Russ Andrew's claims and
'theories'... :-)
Slainte,
Jim
--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html
Spike
David Looser wrote:
Interesting comments.
It might be worth noting that that hum-dinger was invented in order to
get round a problem that noticeable at the time.
Modern low-noise systems can be expected to be very much more
sensitive than those of ~75 years ago, and might be subjected to
effects that were undetectable back in those days. Could it be that
bonding the neutral line to earth unbalances the mains wiring, leading
to residual effects that could be detected?
The ADSL broadband system works as it does because the two-wire system
is balanced. Adding imbalance at the consumer end, an all-too-often
occurrence, can lead to severe MW pickup at night, and during the day
if close enough to a MW transmitter, leading to some combination of
lowered noise margins or connection speeds.
--
from
Aero Spike
Not a member of the RSGB since 1959
Brian Gaff
Only two diodes needed, but wait, maybe these are special Russ low noise
matched diodes?
Brian
--
Brian Gaff - bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!
<alexand...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:86f85fbc-c6fc-47c7...@26g2000yqo.googlegroups.com...
> On 2 Jan, 12:33, "Nick" <not.kn...@here.com.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>> Don't skimp on quality, go for the best!
>
> http://www.russandrews.com/product.asp?lookup=1®ion=UK¤cy=GB...
>>
>> In Russ's quest to extract even more
>
> money from his customers' wallets
>
> performance from his Hi-Fi system, he's
>> identified a new way of cleaning your mains supply that's even more
>> effective than our Ultra Purifier mains filters.
>>
>> The new product 'balances' the mains and cleans the mains supply in a
>> completely new way; it's quite capable of lifting the performance of your
>> system to a completely new level.
Brian Gaff
back of a handcart?
Brian Gaff
secrets?
I suppose you also use a valve to do the rectification. I suggest the 5y3
myself, though you need a specially cleaned supply for the heaters to avoid
heater/cathode intermediation distortion....
grin.
Brian
--
Brian Gaff - bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Bill Borland" <bi...@g3efs.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:eaWHWAAV...@g3efs.fsnet.co.uk...
> In article <86f85fbc-c6fc-47c7...@26g2000yqo.googlegroups
> .com>, alexand...@googlemail.com <alexand...@googlemail.com>
> writes
>>On 2 Jan, 12:33, "Nick" <not.kn...@here.com.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Don't skimp on quality, go for the best!
>>
>>http://www.russandrews.com/product.asp?lookup=1®ion=UK¤cy=GB...
>>>
>>> In Russ's quest to extract even more
>>
>>money from his customers' wallets
>>
>>performance from his Hi-Fi system, he's
>>> identified a new way of cleaning your mains supply that's even more
>>> effective than our Ultra Purifier mains filters.
>>>
>>> The new product 'balances' the mains and cleans the mains supply in a
>>> completely new way; it's quite capable of lifting the performance of
>>> your
>>> system to a completely new level.
>>
>>The principle is sound, like balanced audio circuits, it uses a
>>transformer with two secondaries of half the primary voltage,
>>connected in series, with the junction earthed and the load supplied
>>across the two outer ends. You could get a suitable transformer made
>>for much less than Russ charges.
>>
> Do you simply mean a transformer with a centre-tapped secondary, or
> is there more to it than that?
> --
> Bill Borland
> (G3EFS)
Brian Gaff
accident with an input and bang goes a speaker coil and possible half the
power devices in that side of the amp.
Brian
--
Brian Gaff - bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"The Natural Philosopher" <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:hhoksd$og7$7...@news.albasani.net...
> David Looser wrote:
>> <alexand...@googlemail.com> wrote
>>> The principle is sound, like balanced audio circuits, it uses a
>>> transformer with two secondaries of half the primary voltage,
>>> connected in series, with the junction earthed and the load supplied
>>> across the two outer ends. You could get a suitable transformer made
>>> for much less than Russ charges.
>>
Brian Gaff
considering all that heated discussion this has caused...
Brian
--
Brian Gaff - bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
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in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Brian Gaff" <bri...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:%I_%m.21424$Ym4....@text.news.virginmedia.com...
David Looser
>
>
> Modern low-noise systems can be expected to be very much more
> sensitive than those of ~75 years ago,
Do you actually mean "sensitive"? (i.e.. the input signal necessary for full
output) in which case modern domestic audio systems are no more sensitive
than those of the 1970s. Or are you saying that, being low-noise, hum will
be more apparent? But amplifier noise levels have more than adequate for
decades too, it's the background acoustic noise levels in homes which matter
here, and they have, in general, got worse in the last 50 years or so due to
higher levels of traffic noise etc.
> Could it be that
> bonding the neutral line to earth unbalances the mains wiring,
Well of course it unbalances it! That's the very definition of unbalanced!
> leading
> to residual effects that could be detected?
>
What "residual effects" did you have in mind?
> The ADSL broadband system works as it does because the two-wire system
> is balanced. Adding imbalance at the consumer end, an all-too-often
> occurrence, can lead to severe MW pickup at night, and during the day
> if close enough to a MW transmitter, leading to some combination of
> lowered noise margins or connection speeds.
>
The telephone system has used balanced wiring since the 1880s, for very good
reasons. But here we are talking about a power supply. Mains transformers
inherently reject common-mode noise so it's hard to see what benefit running
balanced mains to an amplifier could have.
If you can come up with either a properly thought through theory as to the
benefits of balanced mains (not a "could it be... residual effects" kind of
half-baked hypothesis) or, better still, real evidence of an audible
improvement I'd be interested to see it. But if not.......
David.
Spike
David Looser wrote:
>"Spike" <Aero.Spike@S&T.invalid> wrote in message
>news:fds0k5p1r98k0vo1e...@4ax.com...
>>
>>
>> Modern low-noise systems can be expected to be very much more
>> sensitive than those of ~75 years ago,
>
>Do you actually mean "sensitive"? (i.e.. the input signal necessary for full
>output) in which case modern domestic audio systems are no more sensitive
>than those of the 1970s. Or are you saying that, being low-noise, hum will
>be more apparent? But amplifier noise levels have more than adequate for
>decades too, it's the background acoustic noise levels in homes which matter
>here, and they have, in general, got worse in the last 50 years or so due to
>higher levels of traffic noise etc.
I meant 'sensitive' as 'being able to detect ever smaller signals and
any previously unrecognised effects'.
>> Could it be that
>> bonding the neutral line to earth unbalances the mains wiring,
>
>Well of course it unbalances it! That's the very definition of unbalanced!
I know that. The 'could be' was a bland way of leading on the main
point, which was:
>> leading to residual effects that could be detected?
>>
>What "residual effects" did you have in mind?
E/m fields affecting electron flow in valves (seen that enough times)
and perhaps conduction processes in semiconductors (not a field I'm
interested in). Doubtless there are others.
I am, like you I suspect, not an expert in low noise audio systems.
>> The ADSL broadband system works as it does because the two-wire system
>> is balanced. Adding imbalance at the consumer end, an all-too-often
>> occurrence, can lead to severe MW pickup at night, and during the day
>> if close enough to a MW transmitter, leading to some combination of
>> lowered noise margins or connection speeds.
>>
>
>The telephone system has used balanced wiring since the 1880s, for very good
>reasons. But here we are talking about a power supply. Mains transformers
>inherently reject common-mode noise so it's hard to see what benefit running
>balanced mains to an amplifier could have.
>If you can come up with either a properly thought through theory as to the
>benefits of balanced mains (not a "could it be... residual effects" kind of
>half-baked hypothesis) or, better still, real evidence of an audible
>improvement I'd be interested to see it. But if not.......
I've no intention of coming up with 'a properly thought through
theory', and I suspect that if you could, you would have done so
before now. But to take the line that because you can't think of
something that has not yet been detected simply isn't a viable
methodology. The reverse is usually true: LHC, anyone?
David Looser
>
> David Looser wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Modern low-noise systems can be expected to be very much more
>>> sensitive than those of ~75 years ago,
>>
>>Do you actually mean "sensitive"?
>
> any previously unrecognised effects'.
>
audio is with the technology of the past. Not just valves, but directly
heated triodes, real 1930s technology.
As for "smaller signals", the dynamic range of audio really hasn't changed
that much. The limits on "smaller signals" is set by the limits of human
hearing and the acoustic environment in which we live. And, "unrecognised
effects"?, when was the last occasion a previously "unrecognised effect" was
found to matter in audio?
>>>
>>What "residual effects" did you have in mind?
>
> E/m fields affecting electron flow in valves (seen that enough times)
Care to elaborate?
>
>
> I've no intention of coming up with 'a properly thought through
> theory',
I thought not :-) But if you think there's something in it give it a go, buy
a mains isolating transformer with a centre-tapped secondary and try it out.
Let us know how you get on.
> But to take the line that because you can't think of
> something that has not yet been detected simply isn't a viable
> methodology.
The whole field of audio is simply crawling with half-baked nonsense There
are audiphools who fall for this crap and shysters like Russ Andrews
prepared to fleece the gullible in order to make a quick buck.
> The reverse is usually true:
Not in the case of audio it isn't. Real advances are few and far between,
bogus claims like this are ten a penny.
> LHC, anyone?
What on earth has the LHC got to do with it?
David.
>
Woody
> When I were a lad, this was the cheapest way to get full wave
> rectification.
>
> Only two diodes needed, but wait, maybe these are special Russ
> low noise matched diodes?
>
> Brian
>
Ah, so what. I still have a copy of the Radio and TV valve and
transistor data book which has page headers for Geranium
transistors!
Maybe an early version of flower power?
--
Woody
harrogate three at ntlworld dot com
Walter Raleigh
>
> Have a Google for 'humdinger' (and/or 'hum dinger').
>
I often wondered why the hifi brigade didn't go down the road of heating
the valves with regulated DC to minimise any induced hum, especially
where they use directly heated stuff with no cathode.
Maybe they do and I'm just not aware of it?
--
All the best for 2010 de Walter.
Brian Reay
news:hhq77v$eeb$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> On 02/01/2010 22:09, Spike wrote:
>
>>
>> Have a Google for 'humdinger' (and/or 'hum dinger').
>>
>
> I often wondered why the hifi brigade didn't go down the road of heating
> the valves with regulated DC to minimise any induced hum, especially where
> they use directly heated stuff with no cathode.
>
If you rectify AC you replace the 50Hz sinusoidal "hum" with a 100Hz "rasp".
True, you can regulate and filter but anything left will be more "hash" and
probably more in the hearing range of the ear.
As the audio guys who have joined this thread have generally acknowledged, a
lot of this "noise reduction" is in the sphere of counting angels dancing on
pin heads.
Lordgnome
"Walter Raleigh" <walterralei...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:hhq77v$eeb$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> the valves with regulated DC to minimise any induced hum, especially where
> they use directly heated stuff with no cathode.
Ah, I did that many years ago - it was a hybrid. The unit was a microphone
mixer and I used cascode triodes for the front end - decent low noise
transistors had yet to be invented. I fed the heaters via a stabilised DC
supply, using an OC35 and a zener. The result was great. Absolutely no hum
and the noise figure was within 3dB of the theoretical.
That was in the sixties. The unit is still in service.
Les.
Walter Raleigh
> If you rectify AC you replace the 50Hz sinusoidal "hum" with a 100Hz "rasp".
> True, you can regulate and filter but anything left will be more "hash" and
> probably more in the hearing range of the ear.
>
> As the audio guys who have joined this thread have generally acknowledged, a
> lot of this "noise reduction" is in the sphere of counting angels dancing on
> pin heads.
True enough, but the induced 100Hz would be of far lower magnitude than
using a pure AC feed. As lordgnome says, he tried it a long time before
it entered my head, and with excellent results. I have it in the back of
my mind for years to design and build a setup worthy of my living room :)
A good hi-fi set up is a joy to behold (or listen to!), so I can
understand the aspiration. I think a lot of it is driven by a chequebook
mentality though, and those writing the cheques wouldn't have the
technical nous of our friends on the audio group. This thread is an
education in itself.
Brian Reay
> On 03/01/2010 14:03, Brian Reay wrote:
>
>> If you rectify AC you replace the 50Hz sinusoidal "hum" with a 100Hz
>> "rasp".
>> True, you can regulate and filter but anything left will be more "hash"
>> and
>> probably more in the hearing range of the ear.
>>
>> As the audio guys who have joined this thread have generally
>> acknowledged, a
>> lot of this "noise reduction" is in the sphere of counting angels dancing
>> on
>> pin heads.
>
> True enough, but the induced 100Hz would be of far lower magnitude than
> using a pure AC feed. As lordgnome says, he tried it a long time before it
> entered my head, and with excellent results.
I'd be curious how "bad" the hum would have been without the DC feed in
Les's design.
> A good hi-fi set up is a joy to behold (or listen to!), so I can
> understand the aspiration. I think a lot of it is driven by a chequebook
> mentality though, and those writing the cheques wouldn't have the
> technical nous of our friends on the audio group. This thread is an
> education in itself.
I used to work with a "HiFi nut". He'd buy almost anything to get the sound
right. He spent more time listening to test sounds than he did to music.
I saw (or perhaps heard) the same when someone should me some flash Bose
system. It came with a CD which was, essentially, birds in a jungle. The
sound was impressive- the birds seemed very real, almost to the point if
being disconcerting.
Personally, I prefer to listen to music and, while we've a pretty good set
up (Creek amp), it isn't "top of the range" and I confess I'd struggle to
claim it was better than a cheaper system (from Richer) in the dinning room.
David Looser
> On 02/01/2010 22:09, Spike wrote:
>
>>
>> Have a Google for 'humdinger' (and/or 'hum dinger').
>>
>
> I often wondered why the hifi brigade didn't go down the road of heating
> the valves with regulated DC to minimise any induced hum,
That has been done, much pro-audio kit made in the valve era used d.c. to
feed the heaters of valves in the early stages of microphone amps, tape
recorders etc.
> especially where they use directly heated stuff with no cathode.
>
Big power valves with directly heated filaments have heavy filaments and
were intended to be a.c. heated. If you run them on d.c. then the
characteristics change as one end of the filament is more negative (w.r.t.
the grid) than the other, and so carries most of the current. With a.c. the
most negative point changes over the mains cycle from one end to the other
distributing the current flow much more evenly over the filament. At the
sort of signal level these valves run at induced hum from the filament
wiring isn't a problem.
Of course d-h valves intended for battery operation *must* have d.c.
filament supplies.
David.
Walter Raleigh
> Big power valves with directly heated filaments have heavy filaments and
> were intended to be a.c. heated. If you run them on d.c. then the
> characteristics change as one end of the filament is more negative (w.r.t.
> the grid) than the other, and so carries most of the current. With a.c. the
> most negative point changes over the mains cycle from one end to the other
> distributing the current flow much more evenly over the filament. At the
> sort of signal level these valves run at induced hum from the filament
> wiring isn't a problem.
>
> Of course d-h valves intended for battery operation *must* have d.c.
> filament supplies.
>
> David.
Thanks, David. If I was to pursue such a design so, I'd be well advised
to only use it for stages with low input signal.
Clive George
news:hhp0q5$gfg$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
If he's got any nous, said electrician will charge you special audiophile
rates and ensure he uses degaussed pliers, cutters aligned with the local
magnetic field and balanced consumer unit labels.
Jim Lesurf
IIUC yes some valve amps have used dc heating to avoid 50 Hz injection.
However in some designs/devices that means that more of the cathode current
may come from one part of the cathode than another. So IIRC some then have
to alter the polarity every now and then to even up cathode aging.
Yes, IIRC some designs still use direct heated cathode valves. Although I'm
no expert on 'modern' <sic?> valve audio amp design so someone else can
perhaps fill in these details who knows more about the designs.
Jim Lesurf
<david....@btinternet.com> wrote:
> "Spike" <Aero.Spike@S&T.invalid> wrote in message
> news:07v0k59omqku2rbpv...@4ax.com...
> >
> > I meant 'sensitive' as 'being able to detect ever smaller signals and
> > any previously unrecognised effects'.
> As for "smaller signals", the dynamic range of audio really hasn't
> changed that much. The limits on "smaller signals" is set by the limits
> of human hearing and the acoustic environment in which we live.
Yes. And in addition to that, much of recorded/broadcast music in recent
years has become level-compressed, etc, to occupy far smaller dynamic
ranges that even half-decent home electronics can handle. Then stir into
the mix the use of methods like mp3... Chances are that most people are
listening to music that never needs anything like the dynamic range that
their hearing could handle, let alone that of a decent audio amp.
Frank Turner-Smith G3VKI
news:7qbovf...@mid.individual.net...
> Big power valves with directly heated filaments have heavy filaments and
> were intended to be a.c. heated. If you run them on d.c. then the
> characteristics change as one end of the filament is more negative (w.r.t.
> the grid) than the other, and so carries most of the current. With a.c.
> the most negative point changes over the mains cycle from one end to the
> other distributing the current flow much more evenly over the filament. At
> the sort of signal level these valves run at induced hum from the filament
> wiring isn't a problem.
>
> Of course d-h valves intended for battery operation *must* have d.c.
> filament supplies.
>
> David.
>
>
are the filament pins polarised?
--
;-)
.
73 de Frank Turner-Smith G3VKI - mine's a pint.
.
http://turner-smith.co.uk
John Rumm
> John Rumm wrote:
>> geoff wrote:
>>
>>> Last time I looked at that site, they were charging �76 or something
>>> for a "low noise" mains flex (apparently it's magically perfect when
>>> it comes out of the socket)
>>
>> Did you miss the bit where you rewire the house using:
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/yerxau8
>
> "Please note: The installation of any mains circuit must be carried out
> by a competent electrician, holding Part P and Edition 16 of IEEE
> regulations."
I wonder what the US based IEEE (c.f. IEE - the actual publishers of
BS7671), have to say about part P or any other UK specific regs?
--
Cheers,
John.
/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/
Laurence Payne
<spuorg...@gowanhill.com> wrote:
>> Indeed. For 4 grand, I'd want a 3m long penis.
>
>Wouldn't be much fun unless you had 3m long arms to go with it ;-)
Oh, I don't know. You could be getting on with something
intellectually stimulating in the next room rather than having to
actually TALK to the bitch!
Jim on the crappy lappy ...
"Laurence Payne" <l...@laurencepayne.co.uk> wrote in message
news:s0q1k5h4s5cpcbmva...@4ax.com...
like at a glory hole then? .......
dennis@home
"Brian Reay" <s...@website.com> wrote in message
news:Ps10n.29584$Ic5....@newsfe16.ams2...
> If you rectify AC you replace the 50Hz sinusoidal "hum" with a 100Hz
> "rasp". True, you can regulate and filter but anything left will be more
> "hash" and probably more in the hearing range of the ear.
You should be more careful.. your sarcasm isn't being indicated by smilies,
etc.
You need to do that if you expect some of the DIY group to understand.
Owain
> >Wouldn't be much fun unless you had 3m long arms to go with it ;-)
> Oh, I don't know. You could be getting on with something
> intellectually stimulating in the next room rather than having to
> actually TALK to the bitch!
But how would you wiggle the fast/slow and up/down controls on the
side of her head?
Owain
Jimbo Jones ...
"Owain" <spuorg...@gowanhill.com> wrote in message
news:0c917cf8-1f7b-405f...@34g2000yqp.googlegroups.com...
>Owain
he has the cheap model ? .....
Arny Krueger
wrote in message
news:hhq77v$eeb$1...@news.eternal-september.org
DC filaments were not uncommon on tubed preamplifiers. Even fairly basic
gear like the Dyna PAS-3 had a rectifier and a filter cap for the filaments.
Many other vendors did this as well here's an archive of H H Scott equipment
with several examples:
http://hhscott.com/database/vhhs_00011.html
Many examples.
In the old days the rectifiers were selenium, and therefore physically
large.
David Looser
>
> are the filament pins polarised?
> --
Are you asking whether the filament pins of battery DH valves are marked "+"
and "-" on the data sheet? If so the answer is yes.
David.
The Natural Philosopher
> "Spike" <Aero.Spike@S&T.invalid> wrote in message
> news:07v0k59omqku2rbpv...@4ax.com...
>> David Looser wrote:
>>
>>>> Modern low-noise systems can be expected to be very much more
>>>> sensitive than those of ~75 years ago,
>>> Do you actually mean "sensitive"?
>> I meant 'sensitive' as 'being able to detect ever smaller signals and
>> any previously unrecognised effects'.
>>
> Funnily enough many of the *real* audiphools will tell you how much better
> audio is with the technology of the past. Not just valves, but directly
> heated triodes, real 1930s technology.
>
Funnily enough, the *real* audiophiles will not.
If you like a rather poor frequency response, and fairly soft odd
harmonic distortion, then of course go valve.
It does cover up the deficiencies elsewhere that an accurate ultra low
distortion amplifier (solid state) reveals.
The Natural Philosopher
Self style audiophiles do, with virtually no real electronics knowledge.
Fortunately, neither has the target market any...
David Looser
news:hhsgri$vb0$1...@news.albasani.net...
> David Looser wrote:
>>>
>> Funnily enough many of the *real* audiphools will tell you how much
>> better audio is with the technology of the past. Not just valves, but
>> directly heated triodes, real 1930s technology.
>>
>
> Funnily enough, the *real* audiophiles will not.
>
> If you like a rather poor frequency response, and fairly soft odd harmonic
> distortion, then of course go valve.
>
> It does cover up the deficiencies elsewhere that an accurate ultra low
> distortion amplifier (solid state) reveals.
You are talking about audio enthusiasts, not audiophools, here. Audiophools
are the people who will spend a fortune on a bit of cable with 'magic'
properties, then connect it to an SET amp and fed it from vinyl. They are
also the people who will discuss at length, in a wine reviewers prose style,
the difference in sound quality one gets by changing the brand of thermionic
rectifier in one's valve amp.
David.
The Natural Philosopher
hum from heaters is ony one aspect though. Rectification currents
flowing in wires is as bad. Its surprising how much MAGNETIC coupling
you get in an amp.
Last HiFi design I did back in the 70's the residual hum was down at
about same level of background hiss on the 'zero volume control' amp,
but we had to scrap 200 cheap transformers that leaked flux, to get there.
Our resident self styled 'audiophile' prefered the worst design I
tested. 0.5% crossover distortion, because it 'sounded like a Revox'. He
was right, that also had similar levels.
His ears appeared to change when he saw the test results though.
Good audio is about NOT hearing the amp at all. All proper amps are
indistinguishable. And whilst not dull, totally characterless. If its
got character, its got something you don't want.
When I realised that people were paying enormous sums of money for
carefully crafted IMperfection, I moved into desinging the exact
reverse. Guitar amplifiers. The furthest from the original sound.
A good guitar amplifier is the exact opposite of a HiFi amplifier. You
WANT intermodulation, You WANT loudspeaker resonance, you even want
microphony., badly biased valves, sagging power supplies and frequency
responses resembling the alps.
Its an education running an 8 ohm loudspearr with a cone thinner than
doped tissue in an open backed unlagged cabinet from a 100 ohm source
impedance with 20% distortion.
Welcome to the VOX AC30..
TonyL
> I hate to think, you don't expect the guy to tell everyone his voodoo
> secrets?
> I suppose you also use a valve to do the rectification. I suggest the
> 5y3 myself, though you need a specially cleaned supply for the
> heaters to avoid heater/cathode intermediation distortion....
>
+1 here on that. Those nasty silicon rectifiers with their harsh, fast
nanosecond switching will place severe stresses on your precious audio
equipment during start up, not to mention generating troublesome radiation
of noise from those ugly sharp switching transients. Using a 5Y3 will solve
these problems by applying HT gradually as/when your valves are ready for it
and, since it is a valve, your HT noise will sound much nicer...warmer and
more soothing.
:-)
The Natural Philosopher
Indeed. Guitarists are the same.
BUT surprisingly, I did find actual correlations between their
witterings and what the instruments said.
BTW the best way to make amplifier A win over amplifier B in 'blind
tests' is to give it a dB more gain..
> David.
>
>
>
Bob Eager
Or engrave 11's on the front...
--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
David Looser
>
> +1 here on that. Those nasty silicon rectifiers with their harsh, fast
> nanosecond switching will place severe stresses on your precious audio
> equipment during start up, not to mention generating troublesome radiation
> of noise from those ugly sharp switching transients. Using a 5Y3 will
> solve these problems by applying HT gradually as/when your valves are
> ready for it and, since it is a valve, your HT noise will sound much
> nicer...warmer and more soothing.
>
Whilst the 5Y3 will be expensive, short-lived, inefficient and can cause a
lot of damage to other components when it fails. Of course silicon
rectifiers don't actually cause "severe stresses on your precious audio
equipment" if the system has been designed with even a modicum of care. Nor,
for that matter, will they cause "troublesome radiation" either in a
reasonably competent design.
If stress on components is your main concern may I recommend the choke-input
filter? It also provides a far better load regulation than the common
capacitor-input configuration.
David.
The Natural Philosopher
its NFG.
Indeed, they wont even have tone controls. They havent even heard the
term Fletcher Munson.
The Natural Philosopher
> "TonyL" <TonyLacyR...@Nu-Ware.com> wrote
>> +1 here on that. Those nasty silicon rectifiers with their harsh, fast
>> nanosecond switching will place severe stresses on your precious audio
>> equipment during start up, not to mention generating troublesome radiation
>> of noise from those ugly sharp switching transients. Using a 5Y3 will
>> solve these problems by applying HT gradually as/when your valves are
>> ready for it and, since it is a valve, your HT noise will sound much
>> nicer...warmer and more soothing.
>>
>
> Whilst the 5Y3 will be expensive, short-lived, inefficient and can cause a
> lot of damage to other components when it fails. Of course silicon
> rectifiers don't actually cause "severe stresses on your precious audio
> equipment" if the system has been designed with even a modicum of care. Nor,
> for that matter, will they cause "troublesome radiation" either in a
> reasonably competent design.
>
Indeed. Things like resistance and inductance go a long way to smoothing
out peak currents..
Grimly Curmudgeon
drugs began to take hold. I remember Owain <spuorg...@gowanhill.com>
saying something like:
Wallace and Gromit's Amazing Contraptions?
Grimly Curmudgeon
<cl...@xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk> saying something like:
>If he's got any nous, said electrician will charge you special audiophile
>rates and ensure he uses degaussed pliers, cutters aligned with the local
>magnetic field and balanced consumer unit labels.
Ah but, said labels have to be written with a rare-earth-tipped
ballpoint else the stray fields around the customer's wallet/head might
be disturbed.
TonyL
Stress in myself is my main concern, rather than in any audio circuit...or
rather minimising it. One method is the use of humour, oodles of it...which
my original post contained.
Mark Kent
> Lordgnome wrote:
>> "Walter Raleigh" <walterralei...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:hhq77v$eeb$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> I often wondered why the hifi brigade didn't go down the road of heating
>>> the valves with regulated DC to minimise any induced hum, especially where
>>> they use directly heated stuff with no cathode.
>>
>> Ah, I did that many years ago - it was a hybrid. The unit was a microphone
>> mixer and I used cascode triodes for the front end - decent low noise
>> transistors had yet to be invented. I fed the heaters via a stabilised DC
>> supply, using an OC35 and a zener. The result was great. Absolutely no hum
>> and the noise figure was within 3dB of the theoretical.
>> That was in the sixties. The unit is still in service.
>>
>> Les.
>>
>>
> neat trick.
>
> hum from heaters is ony one aspect though. Rectification currents
> flowing in wires is as bad. Its surprising how much MAGNETIC coupling
> you get in an amp.
>
I've yet to be convinced by the "hum from heaters" argument. It's just
a heater...
>
> Last HiFi design I did back in the 70's the residual hum was down at
> about same level of background hiss on the 'zero volume control' amp,
> but we had to scrap 200 cheap transformers that leaked flux, to get there.
>
> Our resident self styled 'audiophile' prefered the worst design I
> tested. 0.5% crossover distortion, because it 'sounded like a Revox'. He
> was right, that also had similar levels.
>
> His ears appeared to change when he saw the test results though.
>
> Good audio is about NOT hearing the amp at all. All proper amps are
> indistinguishable. And whilst not dull, totally characterless. If its
> got character, its got something you don't want.
>
> When I realised that people were paying enormous sums of money for
> carefully crafted IMperfection, I moved into desinging the exact
> reverse. Guitar amplifiers. The furthest from the original sound.
>
> A good guitar amplifier is the exact opposite of a HiFi amplifier. You
> WANT intermodulation, You WANT loudspeaker resonance, you even want
> microphony., badly biased valves, sagging power supplies and frequency
> responses resembling the alps.
>
> Its an education running an 8 ohm loudspearr with a cone thinner than
> doped tissue in an open backed unlagged cabinet from a 100 ohm source
> impedance with 20% distortion.
>
> Welcome to the VOX AC30..
>
Guitar amps used to operate EL34s in class a/b, afairc. Cooks the
valves, distorts like crazy, sounds, well, guitar-ampy :-)
Personally, I like amps completely flat, noise free, and generally
invisible. But that's just me...
--
| mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
| Cola faq: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/ |
| Cola trolls: http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/ |
| Open platforms prevent vendor lock-in. Own your Own services! |
Mark Kent
You don't get hum from heaters - they merely heat cathodes; the
cathodes eject the electrons.
Selenium rectifiers came after valved ones. Indeed, the first valve
invented was a diode, by one Mr Fleming.
Mark Kent
I recall gold-plated mains plugs and sockets being sold many years ago
to those foolish enough to purchase them.
Steve Firth
> http://www.russandrews.com/product.asp?lookup=1®ion=UK¤cy=GB...
> >
> > In Russ's quest to extract even more
>
> money from his customers' wallets
That site is quite astonishing for the sheer amount of over-priced
garbage it has for sale. Although sadly I saw something on there I was
vaguely interested in buying.
Meanwhile, it doesn't even come close to this:
http://www.belt.demon.co.uk/product/product.html
for sheer rip-offery combined with snake oil bunkum.
geoff
<mark...@demon.co.uk> writes
>Grimly Curmudgeon <grimly...@REMOVEgmail.com> espoused:
>> We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
>> drugs began to take hold. I remember "Clive George"
>><cl...@xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk> saying something like:
>>
>>>If he's got any nous, said electrician will charge you special audiophile
>>>rates and ensure he uses degaussed pliers, cutters aligned with the local
>>>magnetic field and balanced consumer unit labels.
>>
>> Ah but, said labels have to be written with a rare-earth-tipped
>> ballpoint else the stray fields around the customer's wallet/head might
>> be disturbed.
>
>I recall gold-plated mains plugs and sockets being sold many years ago
>to those foolish enough to purchase them.
>
cables costing �2000 etc ...
--
geoff
Toby
"Steve Firth" <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1jbtic7.1iehp4i669npcN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk...
This is just the ultimate OCD...
Align the slots in all screw heads so that the slots are parallel to the
earth's surface. ALL screws - screws fastening light switches to the wall,
screws fastening AC power sockets to the wall, screws fastening shelves to
the wall etc. Listen to some music for a short time and then move any of the
screw slots away from being parallel to the earth's surface and see if you
can listen to the same music with the same pleasure !!
TonyL
>
> When I realised that people were paying enormous sums of money for
> carefully crafted IMperfection, I moved into desinging the exact
> reverse. Guitar amplifiers. The furthest from the original sound.
>
> A good guitar amplifier is the exact opposite of a HiFi amplifier. You
> WANT intermodulation, You WANT loudspeaker resonance, you even want
> microphony., badly biased valves, sagging power supplies and frequency
> responses resembling the alps.
>
> Its an education running an 8 ohm loudspearr with a cone thinner than
> doped tissue in an open backed unlagged cabinet from a 100 ohm source
> impedance with 20% distortion.
>
> Welcome to the VOX AC30..
>
LOL...there's also cash to be made from carefully emulating that distortion
in software. I run a Strat through a PC running guitar amp simulation
software and then through a "transparent" SS amp and speakers. Have a choice
of several (virtual) vintage Marshall amp/speaker combos plus many others,
all just a few mouse clicks away.
TonyL
>
> Guitar amps used to operate EL34s in class a/b, afairc. Cooks the
> valves, distorts like crazy, sounds, well, guitar-ampy :-)
>
> Personally, I like amps completely flat, noise free, and generally
> invisible. But that's just me...
>
It is horses for courses. An electric guitar played through a flat
distortion/noise free amp sounds....er...flat and thin. It is a common
studio technique to record from mics strategically placed around the speaker
of a "tube amplifier" to get that electric guitar sound.
TonyL
> Meanwhile, it doesn't even come close to this:
>
> http://www.belt.demon.co.uk/product/product.html
>
> for sheer rip-offery combined with snake oil bunkum.
>
That is a spoof site....a joke :-)
Bob Eager
> Grimly Curmudgeon <grimly...@REMOVEgmail.com> espoused:
>> We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
>> drugs began to take hold. I remember "Clive George"
>><cl...@xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk> saying something like:
>>
>>>If he's got any nous, said electrician will charge you special
>>>audiophile rates and ensure he uses degaussed pliers, cutters aligned
>>>with the local magnetic field and balanced consumer unit labels.
>>
>> Ah but, said labels have to be written with a rare-earth-tipped
>> ballpoint else the stray fields around the customer's wallet/head might
>> be disturbed.
>
> I recall gold-plated mains plugs and sockets being sold many years ago
> to those foolish enough to purchase them.
I mentioned those back near the start of the thread, and was probably
responsible for most of the subsequent discussion!
Woody
news:89aa17-...@ellandroad.demon.co.uk...
> Grimly Curmudgeon <grimly...@REMOVEgmail.com> espoused:
>> We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert,
>> when the
>> drugs began to take hold. I remember "Clive George"
>><cl...@xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk> saying something like:
>>
>>>If he's got any nous, said electrician will charge you special
>>>audiophile
>>>rates and ensure he uses degaussed pliers, cutters aligned
>>>with the local
>>>magnetic field and balanced consumer unit labels.
>>
>> Ah but, said labels have to be written with a
>> rare-earth-tipped
>> ballpoint else the stray fields around the customer's
>> wallet/head might
>> be disturbed.
>
> I recall gold-plated mains plugs and sockets being sold many
> years ago
> to those foolish enough to purchase them.
>
now!
--
Woody
harrogate three at ntlworld dot com
Woody
news:9YadnTXBaeCxAd_W...@bt.com...
Oh no it isn't. Peter Belt has been around a lot longer than
Rip-off Russ.
I remember one of his first - to place a piece of aluminium foil
under one foot (but only one foot) of your CD player. This will
break the magnetic influences around the machine and improve the
sound quality.............
The men in white coats have been on order for years but they
haven't found him yet!
dennis@home
"TonyL" <TonyLacyR...@Nu-Ware.com> wrote in message
news:7uWdnfFAl6l2BN_W...@bt.com...
> Mark Kent wrote:
>>
>> Guitar amps used to operate EL34s in class a/b, afairc. Cooks the
>> valves, distorts like crazy, sounds, well, guitar-ampy :-)
>>
>> Personally, I like amps completely flat, noise free, and generally
>> invisible. But that's just me...
>>
>
> It is horses for courses. An electric guitar played through a flat
> distortion/noise free amp sounds....er...flat and thin.
It sounds like a guitar.
Its quite common not to produce square waves while playing but only amongst
the skilled players.
The rest hide their ability (or lack of) under the noise.
> It is a common studio technique to record from mics strategically placed
> around the speaker of a "tube amplifier" to get that electric guitar
> sound.
Why bother, a modern DSP will do any effect you like except for an
undistorted guitar sound as well as some a guitar amp can't.
Mark Kent
Mark Kent
Mark Kent
Wow... I'd not seen them for a long time. Still, there's always someone
with too much cash in their pocket.
Jim Lesurf
If you wish it is also trivially easy to do things like
a) Put small RF caps across diodes to suppress any brief snap
b) build a PSU that ramps up the voltage slowly when first turned on
without needing to use valves for the rectifiers.
Slainte,
Jim
--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
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Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html